Which program won't accept D.Os or COMLEX?

[MadPuppy2005]

Which programs should I not apply?
Which programs are very D.O friendly?

Are there D.Os in psychiatry programs at yale, John's Hopkins, (Harvard longwood, mass general, south sore), mayo, cleveland clinic, emory, or any top tier program in general?

thanks

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[csolado]

Which programs should I not apply? Which programs are very D.O friendly?

Are there D.Os in psychiatry programs at yale, John's Hopkins, (Harvard longwood, mass general, south sore), mayo, cleveland clinic, emory, or any top tier program in general?

MP'05,

I can only comment on my personal experience in this regard. It has never once been an issue that I was a DO for any program. A secretary at Duke told me that they didn't take DO's, and I took her at her word, dropping them off the list. Of course, she was incorrect, as they had DO's in my class there.

I've been at Mayo for four and a half years, having completed my Psych residency, and now working on my fellowship in Psychosomatic Medicine (Consult Psychiatry) here. I also applied for fellowships at Mass General, Brigham & Women's, NIMH, Yale, and the University of Washington, and despite getting interviews at all of them, not once did my degree come up. It wasn't an issue when I was selected as Chief resident, either. It hasn't affected any of the other DO's in our program, either.

In fact, the last time I was reminded that I was a DO was on a discussion board, reassuring a student. The good news is that once you've graduated med school, the MD/DO issue decreases dramatically.

So the short form (which isn't a means of communication at which I'm very adept, obviously) is that you should apply wherever you're interested in doing a residency, and don't worry about the DO/MD issue.

I hope this is helpful. Please email me with any questions or concerns,

Chris

 

[PublicHealth]

MP'05,

I can only comment on my personal experience in this regard. It has never once been an issue that I was a DO for any program. A secretary at Duke told me that they didn't take DO's, and I took her at her word, dropping them off the list. Of course, she was incorrect, as they had DO's in my class there.

I've been at Mayo for four and a half years, having completed my Psych residency, and now working on my fellowship in Psychosomatic Medicine (Consult Psychiatry) here. I also applied for fellowships at Mass General, Brigham & Women's, NIMH, Yale, and the University of Washington, and despite getting interviews at all of them, not once did my degree come up. It wasn't an issue when I was selected as Chief resident, either. It hasn't affected any of the other DO's in our program, either.

In fact, the last time I was reminded that I was a DO was on a discussion board, reassuring a student. The good news is that once you've graduated med school, the MD/DO issue decreases dramatically.

So the short form (which isn't a means of communication at which I'm very adept, obviously) is that you should apply wherever you're interested in doing a residency, and don't worry about the DO/MD issue.

I hope this is helpful. Please email me with any questions or concerns,

Chris

This is great! Thank you sharing. What are your thoughts about psychosomatic psychiatry? What types of cases do you typically see?

 

[csolado]

This is great! Thank you sharing. What are your thoughts about psychosomatic psychiatry? What types of cases do you typically see?

The most common diagnoses on most Psych C/L (Consult/Liaison) services are delirium, depression, and character pathology that's upsetting to the primary service. Our job is often to act as a liaison/educator for the primary service, giving them suggestions as to how to treat the patient's psychiatric presentation in the context of their (often multiple) medical illnesses. I enjoy the added challenge of taking into account all medical systems, rather than just treating "from the neck up."

One other thing about C/L Psychiatry (or Psychosomatic Medicine, as it's now been formally christened by the APA): despite poor relationships with the primary services and being seen as less of a doctor by other physicians in some facilities (Mayo may have a touch of that, but it's truly rare here), the primary physicians (be they surgeons, internists, endocrinologists, what have you) are THRILLED to see me, and respect what help I can offer them and their patient.

The joke in my family is that I'm a DO and a Psychiatrist, so to some people, I'm not a doctor AND not a doctor. I can state unequivocally that this is not how I've been treated at Mayo or in my dealings with physicians from any other facility (including pretty much all of the ones listed in the first post).

Chris

 

[Thunder]

Thanks for bringing up this question, MadPuppy. Exactly what I've been wanting to know.

Also thanks to csolado for the thoughtful response. One more question for csolado, am I correct that Mayo psychiatry will only accept USMLE scores? In other words, a DO would have to take their COMLEX plus USMLE to be considered there? Know how many other psychiatry programs have decided this, to require USMLE?

 

[csolado]

Thanks for bringing up this question, MadPuppy. Exactly what I've been wanting to know.

Also thanks to csolado for the thoughtful response. One more question for csolado, am I correct that Mayo psychiatry will only accept USMLE scores? In other words, a DO would have to take their COMLEX plus USMLE to be considered there? Know how many other psychiatry programs have decided this, to require USMLE?

Thunder,

Fortunately, you have been misinformed. Mayo requires that you take a licensing examination, which for DO's is the COMLEX. They're not particularly concerned about the USMLE, as they've seen enough COMLEX scores that they can make sense of them.

When I was looking at programs, I decided in advance that a program that wouldn't take the COMLEX was more likely to engage in other, perhaps less subtle, forms of discrimination against DO's.

The majority of programs won't care, as long as you're able to be licensed at the end.

Chris

 

[Thunder]

Thunder,

Fortunately, you have been misinformed. Mayo requires that you take a licensing examination, which for DO's is the COMLEX. They're not particularly concerned about the USMLE, as they've seen enough COMLEX scores that they can make sense of them.

When I was looking at programs, I decided in advance that a program that wouldn't take the COMLEX was more likely to engage in other, perhaps less subtle, forms of discrimination against DO's.

The majority of programs won't care, as long as you're able to be licensed at the end.

Chris

That's good to hear. You are right, Chris, I am FORTUNATE to have been misinformed. You and I think alike. I figure if a program won't accept COMLEX scores, there's a good chance it's not a great environment for a DO anyway. Good to hear your nice comments about the Mayo program.

 

[bostongirl22]

I met a psychiatry doctor from the Yale program tonight at a dinner lecture, and he told me that they had had many DO's in their program in the past and they definitely do not discriminate.

so...that's good news!! good luck to you!

 

[csolado]

I met a psychiatry doctor from the Yale program tonight at a dinner lecture, and he told me that they had had many DO's in their program in the past and they definitely do not discriminate.

so...that's good news!! good luck to you!

I can vouch for the Yale program as well. They made no distinction about my degree at all during the interview process for fellowship. Neither did they care that one of my current juniors was a DO when he interviewed there for residency.

There likely remains a bias against DO's, but I can say that I've not experienced it on a programatic level. There will always be someone who feels that DO's are inferior. If you do your work, you only prove them wrong.

Good luck to all, and please let me know if I can provide any information from my limited worldview.

Chris

 

[raspberry swirl]

i met a DO PGY1 who is at cleveland clinic, and they even signed him prior to the match. i forgot to ask him if he had to take the USMLE, but im going to guess that they probably dont require it (although i can't state that for sure). cleveland clinic works with a lot of OU-COM and LECOM students so they're pretty DO-friendly.

 

[csolado]

i met a DO PGY1 who is at cleveland clinic, and they even signed him prior to the match. i forgot to ask him if he had to take the USMLE, but im going to guess that they probably dont require it (although i can't state that for sure). cleveland clinic works with a lot of OU-COM and LECOM students so they're pretty DO-friendly.

I'm quite sure that they didn't require the USMLE. There is no benefit to taking it (outside of the questionable benefit of the residency programs getting scores they're familiar with), as the USMLE cannot license you when you're done.

Mayo signed me outside the match as well, though I just got lucky...

 

[prwunecom]

I am a D.O. and was granted an interview last year at Univ. of VT but then told that they wouldn't accept me unless I took USMLE. So, I said, "see ya". None of the other 14 or so programs that I interviewed at had a problem with it. I only applied to M.D. programs.

 

[NewRawTick]

Wow, I'm so glad someone's posted this question already! I'm an MS-1, but I'm already looking into residencies for peds and psych (or peds-psych) just to get myself on the right track and not be as lost as I was as a premed.

Seeing that there are programs out there that accept COMLEX scores, is there some kind of a website or book that I can look over to check these programs out in person? (Something similar to the MSAR book from the AAMC.) Or is it just a bunch of Google-ing for these schools?

More questions: (I know absolutely nothing about post-grad education, so please forgive me if these are dumb questions.)
- Are there programs in CA that accept COMLEX scores? I'm originally from CA and would like to go back for family reasons. I suppose I can do my residency out of state...and how does that work after residency, trying to go to another state?
- As an MS, what type of a timeline should I set up for myself in order to be prepared for the Match?
- I can take my 4th year of rotations anywhere I want to, as long as it's approved by our dean...any suggestions on great facilities that are DO-friendly that can let me get a foot in the door for their residency?
- Are the aforementioned programs combined internship-residency, or did you have to do a traditional rotating internship elsewhere, then apply to their residency program?

Thanks in advance!

-Nan

 

[NewRawTick]

Oooh, another string of questions (and an important one at that too, I suppose):

- How many spots are there for psych residencies (MD/DO) each Match year?
- What does the profile of a competitive applicant look like for a psych program? (Board scores, GPA/class rank, extra curriculars, etc)

Thanks again!

-Nan

 

[Miklos]

- How many spots are there for psych residencies (MD/DO) each Match year?

Last year 1,020 PGY1 Psychiatry positions were offered through the NRMP.

See http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table10ab_04.pdf