which school is more difficult to survive: Buffalo vs NYU

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iLuvDAT

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their incoming stats look similar. i think it all boils down to the faculty of the school. NYU only has a graduation rate of 70% which seems pretty hard compared with others. anyone could share their experience about this?
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Questions like this always leave me scratching my head.

The only way for someone to answer your question is to have attended both schools, which is highly unlikely.
 
iLuvDAT said:
their incoming stats look similar. i think it all boils down to the faculty of the school. NYU only has a graduation rate of 70% which seems pretty hard compared with others. anyone could share their experience about this?
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You can't assume that because a school has a high rate of failures that the school is particularly hard. There are other possible explanations, most likely just as plausible. One such theory that the school in question (NYU, in this case) admits marginal applicants that could not handle the rigor of any dental school. Therefore, the school is no more difficult than any other; it's the quality of the students that is an issue.
 
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I don't know if I can answer your question, but I would suggest that it's more than faculty. Succeeding at a school has to do with a lot of things, not limited to:

~Curriculum
~Available support (do they want to keep you or don't help when you need it?)
~Exam/practical schedules
~Attitudes of faculty
~How well the profs know the course material
~Attitudes of fellow classmates
~Your state of mind and status of all your background life stuff while at school
~[insert clinic stuff here that I haven't started]

There are many theories for why NYU has a higher drop-out rate; you'll have to talk to an NYU student about that. At UB it's very, very rare to lose a student; no one who wants to stay is kicked out. If you fail enough classes, they want you to stay back and start over. We only lost one student who didn't come back and it was for personal reasons (all the others came back the next year.) There's also a social worker who's there to help out with student needs (therapy, finding housing, even marriage conflicts, whatever.)
 
From my current D2 class, we lost approximately 7-8 students from a class of ~240 due to academic reasons. About 3-4 left and/or came back the next year due to personal/family reasons.

Do the math.

The ones that were academically dismissed all failed multiple (2-3) "important" classes (i.e. anatomy, operative, biochem, etc), and everyone who fails a class or two is given a chance to remediate over the summer.

I personally feel that NYU will be a difficult place to survive if you are shy like a leper, if you are severely averse to city-living, if you hate diversity, or if you don't speak a lick of English...

I'll assume that 70% is most likely a typo. 👍

iLuvDAT said:
their incoming stats look similar. i think it all boils down to the faculty of the school. NYU only has a graduation rate of 70% which seems pretty hard compared with others. anyone could share their experience about this?
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Don't do anything drastic like verify your numbers or get them from someone close to the source. 30% drop out/fail out rate? And for the later poster, you think it may be due to acceptance of marginal applicants? You think that there are so few qualified applicants to dental schools that they have to accept unqualified people? That there aren't qualified people that have to reapply because there are so many qualified applicants?

Some of the posts here seem to show the length that people will sometimes go to in order to bend facts to their preconceived notions.
 
How many people does Buffalo interview?
 
Yellow Snow said:
Don't do anything drastic like verify your numbers or get them from someone close to the source. 30% drop out/fail out rate? And for the later poster, you think it may be due to acceptance of marginal applicants? You think that there are so few qualified applicants to dental schools that they have to accept unqualified people? That there aren't qualified people that have to reapply because there are so many qualified applicants?

Some of the posts here seem to show the length that people will sometimes go to in order to bend facts to their preconceived notions.
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This post goes to show how quickly people read and don't comprehend what they just read. Please point out in my post where I said "No, this is the reason why the dropout rate is so high." Don't bother looking, you won't find it.

I said the OP shouldn't assume that his theory is correct, and that's it's only one way of looking at it. I said another theory could be that they accept marginal applicants. Please show me where I stated that they accepted marginal applicants, as if it were fact.

Exactly.🙄
 
Meatwad said:
This post goes to show how quickly people read and don't comprehend what they just read. Please point out in my post where I said "No, this is the reason why the dropout rate is so high." Don't bother looking, you won't find it.

I said the OP shouldn't assume that his theory is correct, and that's it's only one way of looking at it. I said another theory could be that they accept marginal applicants. Please show me where I stated that they accepted marginal applicants, as if it were fact.

Exactly.🙄
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Arrogant Post for No Reason Award: DING!

And we were trying to reduce the pomposity of the dental forums so that people could start meeting one or two friendly, down-to-earth dental students. On that note, though you're more than welcome to the dental forums, since you are indeed in med school, may I ask what right you have to even mention the acceptance of "marginal applicants" to a dental school?

Don't try to prove yourself; it'll just get you teased here.
 
So are you of the opinion that the reason NYU has a higher failure rate is because the school is harder? Or is it remotely possible that it could be another reason?

My last post may have came off as arrogant because words were put in my mouth (or words were put in my post, as was the case) which were not my own. I have the right to defend my posts from faulty interpretations of others.

Once again, NYU may have a harder curriculum. They may have weaker students. They may have unfair professors. They may have poison in the water fountains that's making all the students fail their tests. Who knows? Who can make a truly objective comparison of which school is harder, unless they've attended both? Even then, what's hard to one person is easier to another, and vice versa.

In the end, just work hard and you most likely won't become that failed-out statistic; I don't think I need to be a dental student to be correct in that assumption.
 
Meatwad said:
So are you of the opinion that the reason NYU has a higher failure rate is because the school is harder? Or is it remotely possible that it could be another reason?

My last post may have came off as arrogant because words were put in my mouth (or words were put in my post, as was the case) which were not my own. I have the right to defend my posts from faulty interpretations of others.

Once again, NYU may have a harder curriculum. They may have weaker students. They may have unfair professors. They may have poison in the water fountains that's making all the students fail their tests. Who knows? Who can make a truly objective comparison of which school is harder, unless they've attended both? Even then, what's hard to one person is easier to another, and vice versa.

In the end, just work hard and you most likely won't become that failed-out statistic; I don't think I need to be a dental student to be correct in that assumption.
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I have absolutely no idea about NYU; I didn't apply and don't happen to know any students there (though I'll be happy to answer any questions the OP may pose about UB.) They do have large classes, so one possibility is simple proportion (if an 80-person class loses 5, I could see how one with 250 would lose more) or even a distribution of resources (longer lines to get help from profs? Who knows?) But again, I have no data.

And as for my earlier post, absolutely defend misunderstandings of your words but usually a, "sorry for sounding unclear in my last post. What I meant to say was this:" is usually more effective than bolding words that neanderthal posters obviously missed, "don't bother looking, you won't find it", eye rolls, etc. Our entire careeres will be based on empathetic, clear and effective interpersonal communication. Patients already think we're arrogant asses.
 
I am class of 09 at Buffalo. We haven't lost anyone from our class yet due to failing out. We have lost 2 due to cheating and a couple came down to us from the 08 class and then failed again but no one from the entering class of 09 has failed out. Also for the first time in school history (100 years or so) we had 100% pass rate on the first try of the part 1 boards. I don't know what our board rank was (they decided not to rank this year) but I would assume that it is in the top 5 or 6. I know I would choose buffalo again, it is a great school with mostly very dedicated faculty and you will save probably 150K over going to NYU.
 
TucsonDDS said:
I am class of 09 at Buffalo. We haven't lost anyone from our class yet due to failing out. We have lost 2 due to cheating and a couple came down to us from the 08 class and then failed again but no one from the entering class of 09 has failed out. Also for the first time in school history (100 years or so) we had 100% pass rate on the first try of the part 1 boards. I don't know what our board rank was (they decided not to rank this year) but I would assume that it is in the top 5 or 6. I know I would choose buffalo again, it is a great school with mostly very dedicated faculty and you will save probably 150K over going to NYU.
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its not so much that you are losing people to failing out but more like you are losing them to apathy.

the only reason tucson likes buffalo so much is because he gets to hang out with me and i'm awesome
 
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Not trying to start a brawl. The point is, there is NO higher drop out rate for NYUCD students compared with other dental schools. There is no reason to explain why more NYU students don't make it to second year because this ISN'T the case. Not due to a larger class, not due to more difficult classes or an unqualified student body. Simply just isn't the case.
 
I was in your shoes 3 years ago, and im glad i chose Buffalo. You only know how good your school is after you get out into the real world. I did a month of internships at GPR programs this summer, and let me tell you the program directors would take people from Buffalo over NYU if grades and boards were similar. 😀
 
xkurkox said:
I was in your shoes 3 years ago, and im glad i chose Buffalo. You only know how good your school is after you get out into the real world. I did a month of internships at GPR programs this summer, and let me tell you the program directors would take people from Buffalo over NYU if grades and boards were similar. 😀
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are you suggesting buffalo is better in clinical education? can you care to elaborate?
 
gryffindor said:
Buffalo is better in its clinical education than the private schools in the other part of the state. I'm just going by my observations when I did my GPR.
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what about stony brook vs buffalo in terms of clinical?
 
iLuvDAT said:
what about stony brook vs buffalo in terms of clinical?
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The answer here will depend on who you ask. Buffalo has a larger class size vs. Stonybrook, which many would think would create more patients for Stonybrook students, but Buffalo has a much larger patient base than you will see on Long Island. Clinically, from my interactions with Stonybrook grads, the clinical experience is similar, but Buffalo grads still complete more procedures in all disciplines than their Stonybrook counterparts. I think Buffalo catches the eye of many Directors of residency programs due to the outstanding clinical preparation the students receive, but i also know that Stonybrook students usually rank right behind them in this respect when looking at schools in the New York and Northeast region of the US.
 
Istr8nthem said:
The answer here will depend on who you ask. Buffalo has a larger class size vs. Stonybrook, which many would think would create more patients for Stonybrook students, but Buffalo has a much larger patient base than you will see on Long Island. Clinically, from my interactions with Stonybrook grads, the clinical experience is similar, but Buffalo grads still complete more procedures in all disciplines than their Stonybrook counterparts. I think Buffalo catches the eye of many Directors of residency programs due to the outstanding clinical preparation the students receive, but i also know that Stonybrook students usually rank right behind them in this respect when looking at schools in the New York and Northeast region of the US.
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both NYU and columbia are located in NYC which has a huge patient base, why do they rank behind buffalo then?
 
iLuvDAT said:
both NYU and columbia are located in NYC which has a huge patient base, why do they rank behind buffalo then?
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I never said they RANK behind any other school, all I said was Buffalo is known for producing great clinicians. This is due to great patient base (demographics included- older patients who come to appointments on time, need dental work, and have limited budgets), great faculty, and a curriculum which focuses on the clinical aspects of dentistry from the beginning of the first day of dental school. When speaking of NYU, you have to realize that it's a good school, but it has negatives like any other school. NYU has triple the students and not enough operatories for everyone to see patients at the same time, therefore, clinic time is split into different clinic times. At schools like Buffalo, each student has their own, personal operatory, which they and they alone use. This is a huge plus! Also, Columbia and NYU are located in Manhattan. Yes, Manhattan has a huge population, but it also has a large population of private dentists (many of whom take medicaid) and a huge population of the wealthy individuals who seek private practitioners for dental work.
 
Istr8nthem said:
I never said they RANK behind any other school, all I said was Buffalo is known for producing great clinicians. This is due to great patient base (demographics included- older patients who come to appointments on time, need dental work, and have limited budgets), great faculty, and a curriculum which focuses on the clinical aspects of dentistry from the beginning of the first day of dental school. When speaking of NYU, you have to realize that it's a good school, but it has negatives like any other school. NYU has triple the students and not enough operatories for everyone to see patients at the same time, therefore, clinic time is split into different clinic times. At schools like Buffalo, each student has their own, personal operatory, which they and they alone use. This is a huge plus! Also, Columbia and NYU are located in Manhattan. Yes, Manhattan has a huge population, but it also has a large population of private dentists (many of whom take medicaid) and a huge population of the wealthy individuals who seek private practitioners for dental work.
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My dad and mom are both dentists in Buffalo and would strongly disagree with this statement. Then again they would also say that NYU grads aren't strong clinically either.

My useless 2 cents.
 
Cymbidium said:
My dad and mom are both dentists in Buffalo and would strongly disagree with this statement. Then again they would also say that NYU grads aren't strong clinically either.

My useless 2 cents.
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I only speak from first hand experience. All I will say is you don't know the education you are getting until you are out in the real world (or residency/ specialty program) and can see for yourself and can finally compare yourself to your colleagues who graduated from other programs. I can tell you from my real world experiences and my experiences during residency that I realized the clinical education I received at Buffalo far surpassed what my colleagues received elsewhere, and they would be the first to admit it. Also, if/when you begin the interview process for residency/specialty programs, there is another relatively unbiased chance to see how you stack up against other students from other schools. I will tell you that when I interviewed all I heard was praise about director's experiences with Buffalo grads and their clinical competence.

I grew up in Buffalo and now live in NYC, and can say that all of my colleagues in Buffalo would strongly disagree with your parents. Again, I'm not saying that Buffalo is God's gift to dental genius, but I am just stating my experiences and those of the people I work closely with. If you want the very best didactic education Columbia, UCLA, UConn, etc are the schools for you. If you want a very good clinical education with decent didactic preparation, look into Buffalo, they often fly below the radar.
 
iLuvDAT said:
what about stony brook vs buffalo in terms of clinical?
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I agree with what Istr8nthem has said. If you got into both of these schools, then I think the deciding factors should be things like class size, teaching styles (grades vs. pass/fail), location etc. I think the clinical education of both are probably going to be comparable.
 
gryffindor said:
I agree with what Istr8nthem has said. If you got into both of these schools, then I think the deciding factors should be things like class size, teaching styles (grades vs. pass/fail), location etc. I think the clinical education of both are probably going to be comparable.
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thank you all for your input. which school is pass/fail, buffalo or stony?
 
Buffalo is definitely traditional grades with class rank. Actually, I'm not sure that Stony Brook is pass/fail. I just recall meeting a student from Stony Brook at an interview who said the students are not ranked.
 
who cares... people work harder than other people... some dentists come out of school better clinicians than other dentists.... doesn't matter if you came from the best "clinical" school in the country or the worst... who cares where you went to dental school... as long as you went to dental school. everyone will become better clinicians with years under their belts, at least thats what dentists keep telling me...
 
Blando said:
who cares... people work harder than other people... some dentists come out of school better clinicians than other dentists.... doesn't matter if you came from the best "clinical" school in the country or the worst... who cares where you went to dental school... as long as you went to dental school. everyone will become better clinicians with years under their belts, at least thats what dentists keep telling me...
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That seems to make sense the more I think about it. As predents and dental students we are concerned about the short term. How we are when we come out fresh out of dental school? Some schools can do a better job than others in the short term. In the long run dentist see thousands upon thousands of patients so they become very good at what they do.👍
 
Blando said:
who cares... people work harder than other people... some dentists come out of school better clinicians than other dentists.... doesn't matter if you came from the best "clinical" school in the country or the worst... who cares where you went to dental school... as long as you went to dental school. everyone will become better clinicians with years under their belts, at least thats what dentists keep telling me...
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KUNGFUSPARTA.gif
 
buff seems like a better deal, but you'd have to live there. nyu's a rip off unless you're rich or in love with life there. you'll learn more once you graduate anyway. location is most important and the program price is second. 4 years of living in a place that you don't wan tto live in is a long time.
 
backaction said:
buff seems like a better deal, but you'd have to live there. nyu's a rip off unless you're rich or in love with life there. you'll learn more once you graduate anyway. location is most important and the program price is second. 4 years of living in a place that you don't wan tto live in is a long time.
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👎
Four years is not a long time when you are too busy to remember what month it is. It's not undergrad anymore where you have too much time on your hands to burn. Also, the breaks at Buffalo are long enough to leave the city and recharge before returning for the next semester.

If you get into both schools, go to Buffalo for your DDS and then go do your mandatory NY residency in NYC or get a job there for a few years. Your wallet will thank you 10 years from now when your loan repayments are 3 digits a month instead of 4. If you still feel the need to burn an extra $200K or whatever the price difference is between the 2 schools, use it to buy a practice and go on some sweet CE courses in exotic countries and your wallet will thank you again.
 
YES! If you want to be a general dentist go to Buffalo and when you come back for a GPR in NYC you can help all the NYU grads put on a matrix band correctly.😱 Im sure most NYU grads will be good dentists, but coming out of Buffalo youll be there faster.


iLuvDAT said:
are you suggesting buffalo is better in clinical education? can you care to elaborate?
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backaction said:
buff seems like a better deal, but you'd have to live there. nyu's a rip off unless you're rich or in love with life there. you'll learn more once you graduate anyway. location is most important and the program price is second. 4 years of living in a place that you don't wan tto live in is a long time.
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Anyone who cannot find enough to do in Buffalo (during the picoseconds of free time you do have to do interesting things) is sitting in his apartment and only goes to the grocery store and Target. There is plenty of culture, arts, sports, bars, society, and food to entertain you for 4 years. $330,000 versus $150,000 is quite a difference, however much you'll make as a dentist. (If you want to wait 30 years to pay back the former, it's usually over $3000/month.)

If you enter any city hating it and assuming it will suck, it will suck indeed. But it's hard to find an area that can't offer some sort of community or things to do.
 
i signed up for the military thing, and naturally going to a super expensive school like nyu would make me feel better at first. also i could stay with my parents in queens during the school year to save on the housing. now after hearing so many great things about buffalo, i narrow my top choice down to buffalo or stony if accepted.
as far as academics goes, I would not be suprised at the fact that harvard or columbia has highest specialty rate or board scores because all the acceptees were already top of their classes in the undergrad and dental schools have little credit to claim for their high scores, but when it comes to clinical, everyone starts from scratch and thus it is the school that makes all the difference in four years. buffalo is hands down the best in the northeast, and i just wonder how big the gap is between buffalo and stony.
as for the living cost, buffalo is dirt cheap compared to that of long island but it's a bit far away from my home (nyc). I came across some listings showing that a single room near the south campus goes for as low as $130. For those who go to buffalo or stony, how much do you pay for your room near the campus? Is it possible to live there without a car? TIA
 
iLuvDAT said:
i signed up for the military thing, and naturally going to a super expensive school like nyu would make me feel better at first. also i could stay with my parents in queens during the school year to save on the housing. now after hearing so many great things about buffalo, i narrow my top choice down to buffalo or stony if accepted.
as far as academics goes, I would not be suprised at the fact that harvard or columbia has highest specialty rate or board scores because all the acceptees were already top of their classes in the undergrad and dental schools have little credit to claim for their high scores, but when it comes to clinical, everyone starts from scratch and thus it is the school that makes all the difference in four years. buffalo is hands down the best in the northeast, and i just wonder how big the gap is between buffalo and stony.
as for the living cost, buffalo is dirt cheap compared to that of long island but it's a bit far away from my home (nyc). I came across some listings showing that a single room near the south campus goes for as low as $130. For those who go to buffalo or stony, how much do you pay for your room near the campus? Is it possible to live there without a car? TIA
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Yes, there are many places to live within walking distance. Most will be apartments or floors within houses as opposed to apartment buildings (though there is University Court right across from the school.) Some of the streets are filled with undergrads and are a bit louder with more partying, but there are also quieter ones (I live a mile away and can still walk to school every day and mine is a quiet family street.) You can check craigslist and the SubBoard (http://subboard.com/sbi-och/) to see what sorts of things are available. (make sure you search for words like UB south, south campus, etc.)
 
There isnt a big gap between Buffalo and Stonybrook from what I understand after speaking to a few friends from Stony. I pay 545$ for a two bedroom w/ hardwood floors, working fireplace, parking, its 3 min from South campus by car. You do need a car here though, some people ride a bike to school, but i feel bad for them in the winter.

iLuvDAT said:
i signed up for the military thing, and naturally going to a super expensive school like nyu would make me feel better at first. also i could stay with my parents in queens during the school year to save on the housing. now after hearing so many great things about buffalo, i narrow my top choice down to buffalo or stony if accepted.
as far as academics goes, I would not be suprised at the fact that harvard or columbia has highest specialty rate or board scores because all the acceptees were already top of their classes in the undergrad and dental schools have little credit to claim for their high scores, but when it comes to clinical, everyone starts from scratch and thus it is the school that makes all the difference in four years. buffalo is hands down the best in the northeast, and i just wonder how big the gap is between buffalo and stony.
as for the living cost, buffalo is dirt cheap compared to that of long island but it's a bit far away from my home (nyc). I came across some listings showing that a single room near the south campus goes for as low as $130. For those who go to buffalo or stony, how much do you pay for your room near the campus? Is it possible to live there without a car? TIA
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