Which schools should I apply to?

[edrain]

1. GPA: 3.38, not including summer courses. (Do summer courses count in GPA?)
2. MCAT: 38T
3. ECs: the usual: hospital volunteering, club president, research, club executive, community volunteering.
4. Nationality: Canadian

What are my chances? I know my GPA is rubbish and disqualifies me for many schools, so what kind of schools SHOULD I be looking at?

Thanks in advance, and I apologize if this is repetitive.

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[Catalystik]

If you are asking about US med schools, then yes, the summer school classes all count toward your application GPA. If you include them, what is your cGPA and BCPM GPA then?

Terrific MCAT score, BTW.

Also: how many years of research, and do you have any publications? Any shadowing (I know that you can't do this in some parts of Canada, but US schools like to see it)? Total hours of hospital volunteering? More details about the community service? How substantive is your leadership experience? In the US strong ECs can help to trump low numbers.

 

[bannie22]

I suggest low-tier schools or Carribeans.
3.38 is very low, hopefully the summer courses pull your GPA up, maybe to at least a 3.5. If they pull you even lower... then Carribeans please.

If your ECs are average, your research will be rather redundant because lower-tier schools arent really big on researche ither.

 

[edrain]

If you are asking about US med schools, then yes, the summer school classes all count toward your application GPA. If you include them, what is your cGPA and BCPM GPA then?

Terrific MCAT score, BTW.

Also: how many years of research, and do you have any publications? Any shadowing (I know that you can't do this in some parts of Canada, but US schools like to see it)? Total hours of hospital volunteering? More details about the community service? How substantive is your leadership experience? In the US strong ECs can help to trump low numbers.

The summer courses have not been taken as of yet. The reason my GPA is so low is due to terrible marks in the prereqs (I had a bad first year). Thus, I plan on retaking Calculus, Orgo and Inorganic Chem this summer and (hopefully) ace them. How do repeated courses work out in the GPA calculation? If that works out, my GPA will be a 3.73 (GPA scaling from Canadian schools to AMCAS is pretty odd, it's pretty drastic).

As for the research, I have been doing that for one year, no pubs. Also, I have been volunteering at the hospital for 500 hours; no shadowing (no one does that in Toronto, my family doctor was creeped out when I asked her about it); extensive involvement in Model UN, AIESEC, Right to Play, school newspaper and other campus clubs, and I'm the president of another one. I also started an Internet program for mentally disabled people and have volunteered at an eye clinic in India for a summer.

And thanks on the MCAT Never studied that hard in my life. I love Examkrackers.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Neh... Apply early, your summer courses do count. You should apply to
DO: 3 to 5 schools ( PCOM,CCOM,KCOM,KCUMB,DMU) Those schools are pretty good.
MD : I'd say.. apply to about 15 schools, NYMC,GWU,Gtown,Case,Rush are a few that come to my mind that are good for Canadians.

I would say that your EC's are great.. if you have some good LOR you'll be in the green.

 

[edrain]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

The schools you mentioned, are those feasible with my current GPA (3.38) or my GPA after this summer (hopefully a 3.7-ish)? Also, I don't think I'll be applying to DO at all...

I heard that with Canadians, application cycles are irrelevant because they look at us after everyone else. So even if you apply early, they won't look at you until after all the American apps. Is this true?

 

[MiniMoo]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

The schools you mentioned, are those feasible with my current GPA (3.38) or my GPA after this summer (hopefully a 3.7-ish)? Also, I don't think I'll be applying to DO at all...

I heard that with Canadians, application cycles are irrelevant because they look at us after everyone else. So even if you apply early, they won't look at you until after all the American apps. Is this true?

Keep in mind that MD schools do not do grade replacement. So if you retake the courses you did poorly in, those new grades will just be averaged along with the old. Will your GPA still come out to ~3.7?

 

[edrain]

At my university, whenever a course is repeated, the previous grade is officially stricken from the record. I believe it says something to the effect of "Repeated", but the official academic transcript does not show the old mark. So...how would this work?

(FYI, if the grades are averaged, the GPA will be a 3.55-ish).

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think you should apply to DO schools though.. Just incase so you dont lose out on a year

 

[edrain]

I think you should apply to DO schools though.. Just incase so you dont lose out on a year

Pardon my ignorance, I have to confess I don't know much about DOs beyond the basics...how would it help me from "losing out on a year". I'm a junior right away, and I will apply in my senior year. I was thinking of doing a fifth year if I don't get in next year to raise those marks even more...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

well DO's in america are completely equal to a MD. In Canada with the exception of like 1 province its basically full ability scope of practice.
And it'll save you a year because you'll have a somewhat higher chance of getting in because DO schools are more international friendly.

 

[bannie22]

The summer courses have not been taken as of yet. The reason my GPA is so low is due to terrible marks in the prereqs (I had a bad first year). Thus, I plan on retaking Calculus, Orgo and Inorganic Chem this summer and (hopefully) ace them. How do repeated courses work out in the GPA calculation? If that works out, my GPA will be a 3.73 (GPA scaling from Canadian schools to AMCAS is pretty odd, it's pretty drastic).

As for the research, I have been doing that for one year, no pubs. Also, I have been volunteering at the hospital for 500 hours; no shadowing (no one does that in Toronto, my family doctor was creeped out when I asked her about it); extensive involvement in Model UN, AIESEC, Right to Play, school newspaper and other campus clubs, and I'm the president of another one. I also started an Internet program for mentally disabled people and have volunteered at an eye clinic in India for a summer.

And thanks on the MCAT Never studied that hard in my life. I love Examkrackers.

Repeated grades are not considered on the AMCAS. I do not know where you got that idea from.
You should apply for DO then.

I have heard stories of people shadowing in Toronto.
But thats only if you have been on the forums long enough and seen alot. Generally, and to my own belief, it is illegal to do so. But well, people get it done somehow.

 

[bannie22]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

The schools you mentioned, are those feasible with my current GPA (3.38) or my GPA after this summer (hopefully a 3.7-ish)? Also, I don't think I'll be applying to DO at all...

I heard that with Canadians, application cycles are irrelevant because they look at us after everyone else. So even if you apply early, they won't look at you until after all the American apps. Is this true?

1) Read pls.
2) False.

 

[bannie22]

well DO's in america are completely equal to a MD. In Canada with the exception of like 1 province its basically full ability scope of practice.
And it'll save you a year because you'll have a somewhat higher chance of getting in because DO schools are more international friendly.

DOs are not recognized mostly in Canada.
SDN has the wrong idea off wikipedia and multiple other unreliable sources.

To get a better idea of DO in Canada, use premed101.


Which school are you at?
I have never heard of grades being cut when you repeat the courses in Toronto.

 

[Catalystik]

The summer courses have not been taken as of yet. The reason my GPA is so low is due to terrible marks in the prereqs (I had a bad first year). Thus, I plan on retaking Calculus, Orgo and Inorganic Chem this summer and (hopefully) ace them. How do repeated courses work out in the GPA calculation? If that works out, my GPA will be a 3.73 (GPA scaling from Canadian schools to AMCAS is pretty odd, it's pretty drastic).

As for the research, I have been doing that for one year, no pubs. Also, I have been volunteering at the hospital for 500 hours; no shadowing (no one does that in Toronto, my family doctor was creeped out when I asked her about it); extensive involvement in Model UN, AIESEC, Right to Play, school newspaper and other campus clubs, and I'm the president of another one. I also started an Internet program for mentally disabled people and have volunteered at an eye clinic in India for a summer.

The ECs are looking good. Get your GPAs up as high as you can before applying. It's my impression that schools taking internationals reserve a certain number of seats for that purpose, and that internationals are competing with each other for those spots, rather than with US citizens and permanent residents. As these seats are not many, those that are invited to interview tend to be among the most competitive applicants, not just for numbers, but also for ECs, LORs, and interview skills. Your MCAT score helps you stand out. The better the rest of your application is, the more likely you will overbalance the low GPA. Strong leadership (which you appear to have), substantive research, and/or excellent community service are good ways to appeal to adcomms when one is in your situation.

If your transcript does not list the first grade when you repeat a course, you will be expected to fill in the blank with whatever grade you originally earned. You might ask your records office if an administrative transcript DOES include the original grade (as opposed to a transcript that you'd be given).

 

[bannie22]

The ECs are looking good. Get your GPAs up as high as you can before applying. It's my impression that schools taking internationals reserve a certain number of seats for that purpose, and that internationals are competing with each other for those spots, rather than with US citizens and permanent residents. As these seats are not many, those that are invited to interview tend to be among the most competitive applicants, not just for numbers, but also for ECs, LORs, and interview skills. Your MCAT score helps you stand out. The better the rest of your application is, the more likely you will overbalance the low GPA. Strong leadership (which you appear to have), substantive research, and/or excellent community service are good ways to appeal to adcomms when one is in your situation.

If your transcript does not list the first grade when you repeat a course, you will be expected to fill in the blank with whatever grade you originally earned. You might ask your records office if an administrative transcript DOES include the original grade (as opposed to a transcript that you'd be given).

Cat is a nice girl. She is very nice. If you could really overturn those poor grades (you gotta let me know which school). Then you have a good chance at any school in the states.

 

[Catalystik]

It would be well worth it to wait until your cGPA has been resuscitated before you apply, even if this means waiting an extra year. It seems unlikely you could have a 3.7 as soon as end of summer 2010.

Bannie is a successful applicant to US schools from Toronto. He is a good resource for you. He is happy to have you PM if you want to give details without publicly posting them.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

DOs are not recognized mostly in Canada.
SDN has the wrong idea off wikipedia and multiple other unreliable sources.

To get a better idea of DO in Canada, use premed101.


Which school are you at?
I have never heard of grades being cut when you repeat the courses in Toronto.

The only province where DO's are accepted is price something something.. .

But yah.. most provinces accept DO's pretty well.. Though it should be asked if this dude wants to practice in America or Canada after medical school.

 

[bannie22]

Yeah sere, but then I suppose, with all due respect to DOs, nobody with a 38 would have been thinking DO... Probably thinking Harvard more... =.=

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Had he been american and had a 3.7 gpa.. he would have gotten into the top tier..
but hey.. If its either DO or Carib ... DO is probably better..

But yah.. I think that having a 38 mcat will get you in somewhere..

 

[edrain]

Again, thanks for the help guys. Everyone has been very helpful

bannie22, PM sent!

 

[rockaction]

I suggest low-tier schools or Carribeans.
3.38 is very low, hopefully the summer courses pull your GPA up, maybe to at least a 3.5. If they pull you even lower... then Carribeans please.

If your ECs are average, your research will be rather redundant because lower-tier schools arent really big on researche ither.

don't listen to this terrible advice.

raise your GPA and you'll be in good shape. you have the best possible MCAT for your situation.

 

[bannie22]

don't listen to this terrible advice.

raise your GPA and you'll be in good shape. you have the best possible MCAT for your situation.

fail

Oh god, and please dont suggest DO.

 

[Crupen]

People have been admitted with ~3.3-3.4 cumulative GPAs with higher MCAT score. OP definitely falls into that category. Apply broadly and early.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

People have been admitted with ~3.3-3.4 cumulative GPAs with higher MCAT score. OP definitely falls into that category. Apply broadly and early.

He's Canadian.. he needs higher stats then the average person

 

[Crupen]

He's Canadian.. he needs higher stats then the average person

I agree. OP's MCAT is very high. GPA (without summer courses?) is 3.38. Perhaps the GPA is 3.4-3.5 range and if so, I'd say OP has a shot at some American schools atleast.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think he does have a chance..
However like I tell everyone if your not a American with a 3.7 gpa +, and 35+ mcat you should apply to at least 3 DO schools. Theres nothing worse then being left having a gap year after applying to many schools.

 

[edrain]

He's Canadian.. he needs higher stats then the average person

I'm a female. Sorry, it's just weird being referred to as male...

 

[rockaction]

fail

Oh god, and please dont suggest DO.

You'd seriously suggest Carib to someone with a 38?? OP is so close to having an app that'll get her into a US MD school. GPA needs work but don't throw it all away to go to some hell-hole Caribbean school.

 

[bannie22]

You'd seriously suggest Carib to someone with a 38?? OP is so close to having an app that'll get her into a US MD school. GPA needs work but don't throw it all away to go to some hell-hole Caribbean school.

No, thats why I said redo your courses
Dont jump the gun mate.

Always on my back with that gun =P

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm a female. Sorry, it's just weird being referred to as male...

Forgive me.. . I hope i did not offend you.

 

[bannie22]

You'd seriously suggest Carib to someone with a 38?? OP is so close to having an app that'll get her into a US MD school. GPA needs work but don't throw it all away to go to some hell-hole Caribbean school.

I really dont see it as bad as all you SDNers put it.


BAD for that 38, which I suggested earlier on anyway.
But not BAD like all the hatred devoted towards it.

 

[bannie22]

I'm a female. Sorry, it's just weird being referred to as male...

Let us know once you are ready to go (after those grade replacements!)

 

[edrain]

I think he does have a chance..
However like I tell everyone if your not a American with a 3.7 gpa +, and 35+ mcat you should apply to at least 3 DO schools. Theres nothing worse then being left having a gap year after applying to many schools.

That makes sense. However, as some previous posters have said, DO is not very recognized in Canada. As well, it is common practice in Canadian universities to take a fifth year of undergrad to raise marks (which is what I may end up doing...).

 

[edrain]

I really dont see it as bad as all you SDNers put it.


BAD for that 38, which I suggested earlier on anyway.
But not BAD like all the hatred devoted towards it.

Due to my terrible GPA, I was actually considering Ross U and SGU for medical schools...until I got my MCAT, which gave me hope for U.S. med schools. However, I am still impressed with residency match rates and positions with SGU, is that weird?

 

[edrain]

Forgive me.. . I hope i did not offend you.

Not at all! BTW, this is the politest forum ever

 

[bannie22]

Due to my terrible GPA, I was actually considering Ross U and SGU for medical schools...until I got my MCAT, which gave me hope for U.S. med schools. However, I am still impressed with residency match rates and positions with SGU, is that weird?

Its kinda biased, because what WE believe, is that unless you do well on the internal tests, they do not let you the standardized nationwide tests.

But SGU IS the best Carribean med school.
So of course, they would have a pretty impressive match list.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not at all! BTW, this is the politest forum ever

But im curious are you interested in practicing in the U.S? or are you interested in practicing in Canada?

But yah.. I would rather go to an alternative career choice versus SGU or ROSS, and with your amazingly high stats your easy to get into some medical school.

But like i've seen, DO's in Canada are regarded as equals to MD's. With the exception of 1 province If im correct.
If your going to want to come here where its warm =p. Then a DO wont hurt you in any way.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Its kinda biased, because what WE believe, is that unless you do well on the internal tests, they do not let you the standardized nationwide tests.

But SGU IS the best Carribean med school.
So of course, they would have a pretty impressive match list.

The best of the worst is still worse then the worse of the best.

 

[bannie22]

But im curious are you interested in practicing in the U.S? or are you interested in practicing in Canada?

But yah.. I would rather go to an alternative career choice versus SGU or ROSS, and with your amazingly high stats your easy to get into some medical school.

But like i've seen, DO's in Canada are regarded as equals to MD's. With the exception of 1 province If im correct.
If your going to want to come here where its warm =p. Then a DO wont hurt you in any way.

You havent seen.
You just read =P
abeit misinformedly since it is us who are in Canada

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You havent seen.
You just read =P
abeit misinformedly since it is us who are in Canada

Neh.. go study your chem of maple syrup . But yah.. I feel as if there cant really be that big of a difference..

 

[bannie22]

Neh.. go study your chem of maple syrup . But yah.. I feel as if there cant really be that big of a difference..

We Canadians dont care about what you feel. Silly Americans always believing you own the world

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Neh silly Canadians who don't "feel" like we rule the world .

 

[edrain]

I honestly do not understand the automatic American response of maple syrup to anything Canadian...that's more Quebecois

Also, are there any American med schools which place a lot more emphasis on the MCATs/ECs for international students? The reason why I'm asking is because although my school is reputed in Canada, no one in the U.S. has heard of it...and I would imagine that as a result of adcoms' lack of knowledge of aforementioned school, they would put less emphasis on GPA? (Yes, I am clearly grasping at straws here)

 

[bannie22]

I honestly do not understand the automatic American response of maple syrup to anything Canadian...that's more Quebecois

Also, are there any American med schools which place a lot more emphasis on the MCATs/ECs for international students? The reason why I'm asking is because although my school is reputed in Canada, no one in the U.S. has heard of it...and I would imagine that as a result of adcoms' lack of knowledge of aforementioned school, they would put less emphasis on GPA? (Yes, I am clearly grasping at straws here)

No edrain =P
There is only ONE "reputable" school in Ontario. And its not yours

All American schools place more emphasis on MCAT/EC rather than GPA compared to Canadian schools because of the diversity of schools and the general consensus that GPA can fluctuate alot across schools for equally capable students.

However, great MCAT/ECs can only do so much... and being an international applicant, the odds are against you.

 

[edrain]

No edrain =P
There is only ONE "reputable" school in Ontario. And its not yours

All American schools place more emphasis on MCAT/EC rather than GPA compared to Canadian schools because of the diversity of schools and the general consensus that GPA can fluctuate alot across schools for equally capable students.

However, great MCAT/ECs can only do so much... and being an international applicant, the odds are against you.

Ahem...my university is the only one within Ontario that has a pretty famous Medical Science undergrad program and is generally the happiest and most beautiful university campus in Canada...(refer to Facebook group: "Ontario Universities Unite Against Western - Jealous, Jealous, Jealous")

As for GPA, I'm thinking more and more of just doing a fifth year.

 

[bannie22]

Ahem...my university is the only one within Ontario that has a pretty famous Medical Science undergrad program and is generally the happiest and most beautiful university campus in Canada...(refer to Facebook group: "Ontario Universities Unite Against Western - Jealous, Jealous, Jealous")

As for GPA, I'm thinking more and more of just doing a fifth year.

Who needs medical science? What can you do with medical science? Bake cakes? Garbage collector? (High paying job!!! LOL)

Its hard to understand whenever people tell me about how amazing their campus is, but UofT is like the most beautiful campus I have ever seen. Mixture of historical and flashy new architecture. Non-squarish layout. Right in the middle of downtown yet so much greenery.

However, I admit I've never been to Western. However, I have heard about the beauty of UBC (will check that out one day!)

And... at the end of the day.
I go to UofT, I'm better than you.

You can have the greenest grass, the best medical science program... but we are still better than you.
Thats a fact =P



(oh, and I have never heard of that group we dont really know of UWO's existence... only hear the occasional whines of Ryerson College... thats about it)

 

[edrain]

Who needs medical science? What can you do with medical science? Bake cakes? Garbage collector? (High paying job!!! LOL)

Its hard to understand whenever people tell me about how amazing their campus is, but UofT is like the most beautiful campus I have ever seen. Mixture of historical and flashy new architecture. Non-squarish layout. Right in the middle of downtown yet so much greenery.

However, I admit I've never been to Western. However, I have heard about the beauty of UBC (will check that out one day!)

And... at the end of the day.
I go to UofT, I'm better than you.

You can have the greenest grass, the best medical science program... but we are still better than you.
Thats a fact =P



(oh, and I have never heard of that group we dont really know of UWO's existence... only hear the occasional whines of Ryerson College... thats about it)

What can you do with Med Sci, oh I don't know...GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL? Our program has the highest med school matriculation rate. And it offers everyone in the program the chance to do significant undergrad research (with a very high chance of publication). Plus, the Ivey business program at Western is the best in Canada, and our grads get the same jobs in NYC and London as grads from Harvard and UPenn.

I'm from Toronto, have been at UofT thousands of times...it's such a disjointed school. There are random buildings everywhere, no flow, no university feel. I used to study at Robarts in high school and everyone there was always depressed about their life. Western has been voted the best looking campus (in terms of buildings and student body ) in Canada, as well as the best student experience because everyone loves it here and is happy about their life Sorry, I have A LOT of Western pride.

And please...never, ever mention Western in the same breath as Ryerson. That's...hurtful.

 

[bannie22]

What can you do with Med Sci, oh I don't know...GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL? Our program has the highest med school matriculation rate. And it offers everyone in the program the chance to do significant undergrad research (with a very high chance of publication). Plus, the Ivey business program at Western is the best in Canada, and our grads get the same jobs in NYC and London as grads from Harvard and UPenn.

I'm from Toronto, have been at UofT thousands of times...it's such a disjointed school. There are random buildings everywhere, no flow, no university feel. I used to study at Robarts in high school and everyone there was always depressed about their life. Western has been voted the best looking campus (in terms of buildings and student body ) in Canada, as well as the best student experience because everyone loves it here and is happy about their life Sorry, I have A LOT of Western pride.

And please...never, ever mention Western in the same breath as Ryerson. That's...hurtful.

1) You an outlier?

2) Sure! But nobody knows this except for UWO students

3) Admittedly we are a big school, it is difficult for such a big coalition to unite. However, the colleges are usually very united. And I like the idea of NOT building in blocks, it makes it more aesthetic.

4) Unfortunately if you were studying in high school, I would see why you felt depressed with life. (so I wouldnt blame those at UofT for being depressed, might also be that they were depressed cuz I was owning them... or at least the future generation)

5) Who took the survey? Western newspaper, Western students? And really, why care about all these silly competitions anyway? We are UofT, and Canada, and the rest of the world know of us... not Western Ontario (where is that anyway? )

6) Bolded phrase 6 pretty much supports my conclusion that the poll takers are from Western "EVERYONE" loves it here and is happy about their life.

*** SORRY, I have never heard of Western

I have heard of Ryerson College though... I dont think that puts them on the same level right?

LOL! This is amusing. This is for reminding me of delicious... FOOD. DAMN

 

[edrain]

1) You an outlier?

2) Sure! But nobody knows this except for UWO students

3) Admittedly we are a big school, it is difficult for such a big coalition to unite. However, the colleges are usually very united. And I like the idea of NOT building in blocks, it makes it more aesthetic.

4) Unfortunately if you were studying in high school, I would see why you felt depressed with life. (so I wouldnt blame those at UofT for being depressed, might also be that they were depressed cuz I was owning them... or at least the future generation)

5) Who took the survey? Western newspaper, Western students? And really, why care about all these silly competitions anyway? We are UofT, and Canada, and the rest of the world know of us... not Western Ontario (where is that anyway? )

6) Bolded phrase 6 pretty much supports my conclusion that the poll takers are from Western "EVERYONE" loves it here and is happy about their life.

*** SORRY, I have never heard of Western

I have heard of Ryerson College though... I dont think that puts them on the same level right?

LOL! This is amusing. This is for reminding me of delicious... FOOD. DAMN

1. Yes. Yes, I am. The single outlier. Slacker for life.

2. Also the UofT business students who graduate into middling clerical positions who wish they were Ivey grads earning $80,000 right out of university.

3. Seriously dude, come to Western. You will cry going back to UofT. Our math building is a castle with a clock tower, and we have a Hogwarts like Great Hall (that is not fake looking like Victoria College).

4. Yes, I did study at Robarts in high school. The books were tempting, and I was happy there. Everyone around me, however, looked like they wanted to kill themselves (and they all had the same Mountain Equipment backpack...freaky cult anyone?)

5. Not a survey, a legitimate assessment done by a credible institution.

6. Seriously dude, come visit. You will never want to leave. Everyone smiles here, you will find it weird at first (coming from sad UofT) but then you will realize it is possible to be happy in university.

STOP WITH THE RYERSON! IT'S NOT A UNIVERSITY!

Wow, this is so off topic. To bring it full circle, Canadian medical schools are notoriously random with their admissions process. Thank God for the less random American medical schools admissions process and THANK GOD for the generous AMCAS grading scale for Canadian schools.