HowUdoin

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Hi Guys,

I have a friend who is interested in urology, top 5 in the class, USMLE step I 250+, and is worried he won't match in an allopathic urology program. Does anyone know of urology programs that have taken DO's in the past. I know West Virginia has in the past. Thanks for your help. :)
 

Doctor Peloncito

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you might want to check the residencey forums
 

PainDr

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Tell your friend not to worry. With those numbers he/she won't have any problem matching in urology. :D
 
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VentdependenT

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My buddy at AZCOM matched at University of Minnesota this year for Urology. He also had around a 250 step I. When interviewing he was told by a PD that when they get applications from DO's they usually throw them right in the trash. However he did a research elective at the NIH with the urologists there, gave a presentation, and received a stellar letter. This is what caught the eyes of the PD's. Other buddy is at DO Urology at Cook County...plenty of path there as you can imagine.

Apply broadly, keep the faith, and have a back up plan just in case.

Vent
 

Yosh

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I actually was rotating with some of the AZCOM MSIII students, and saw the match list for your class...and saw the U of Min match...I was impressed to say the least. The MSIII's all knew of him, and said he was involved in EVERYTHING.

You guys almost all went allo residencies....and quite an impressive match list!!!

Bravo AZCOM!~ :thumbup: :cool:
 

(nicedream)

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VentdependenT said:
My buddy at AZCOM matched at University of Minnesota this year for Urology. He also had around a 250 step I. When interviewing he was told by a PD that when they get applications from DO's they usually throw them right in the trash.
I'm not sure I would want to go to a program with an attitude like that.
 

DrMom

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(nicedream) said:
I'm not sure I would want to go to a program with an attitude like that.

Hopefully this DO who will be there will enlighten them and change their minds. :)
 

sophiejane

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(nicedream) said:
I'm not sure I would want to go to a program with an attitude like that.
I second that. sounds like a pretty hostile environment.
 

bigmuny

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No uro(or derm, ortho, surg) are "do friendly." If you are a superstar however, you can get a spot. Top grades and usmle scores are a given, on top of that do research and get published(academic medical centers want people who are academically oriented amazingly enough), get letters from people who matter, do audition rotations and shine. This is not just for DOs, most successful MD applicants to these types of programs have done these types of things.
 

DrMom

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bigmuny said:
No uro(or derm, ortho, surg) are "do friendly." If you are a superstar however, you can get a spot. Top grades and usmle scores are a given, on top of that do research and get published(academic medical centers want people who are academically oriented amazingly enough), get letters from people who matter, do audition rotations and shine. This is not just for DOs, most successful MD applicants to these types of programs have done these types of things.

This is an important point that is often missed. Competitive programs look at high end students with stellar USMLE (yes, USMLE, not COMLEX) scores, research, and grades. The expectations are actually the same for MD and DO graduates. Tough programs are hard for any med student to get into.
 

sophiejane

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doc05 said:
most uro programs choose to piss all over the DO applications.
Just to pre-empt any possible reactions about this...

Do NOT engage this poster or let this go any further, please. It's not worth it. Check his (or her) posting history--extremely sarcastic and negative posts abound. Let it go....
 
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VentdependenT

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Don't be afraid to apply. If you pull high USMLE's then you know you'll be able to go through with the rest of your plan to become an allo trained urologist. Letters, rotations, and research (start early) will be what really garner the attention of the PD's.

The statement I said earlier about how most porgrams toss DO apps wasn't meant to dissuade folks from applying. More so it was just to let people know that their apps need to be very strong and need to consist of much more than meer numbers.
 

NKMU

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any comments about osteopathic urology programs? i'm not even positive they exist... i tried to search old threads, but it's hard to search urology + DO when i'm not allowed to use two-letter search words!
 

(nicedream)

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NKMU said:
any comments about osteopathic urology programs? i'm not even positive they exist... i tried to search old threads, but it's hard to search urology + DO when i'm not allowed to use two-letter search words!
There's no DO uro programs - there are 5 uro surg programs though.
 

Yosh

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As I am on a urology rotation now....I will fill you in on what I know.

The "urological surgery" is the urology residency...

They have DO urology in Detroit(where I am now), Chicago(CCOM), Philly(PCOM), NJ(UMDNJ). They are competitve as well, and the same rules apply...

Grades, LOR, research, board scores, shown interest.

Being a "sub-surgical" specialty, it is a long and difficult haul, but like other competitve residency, you have to want it bad, and be willing to work for it.

I have put in crazy hours this month, come in every weekend at 5-6am (Sat and Sun), and will continue to work like crazy, to maximize my chances of getting a spot...which normally you get post internship, and after one year of general surgery.

I know the other poster sounded negative, but I can understand the frustration, and aggravation....as it is difficult, and I am EXHAUSTED.

Best of luck to you all...and let's hear from some people that have been through this...
 

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VetdependenT:

Are you sure the program at Cook County is a DO program? I thought Cook County (the Chicago hospital I'm guessing you're referring to) was the main public hospital in Chicago, and therefore not an osteopathic one. I'm not questioning your info. Just curious.
 

Claymore

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Actually, the chief of Urology at Cook County is a D.O. (Dr. Paul Ray), and I believe they just recently started an osteopathic urology residency. He recently came and gave a few lectures to us at CCOM. The hospital already has osteopathic rotating internships, and I know that quite a few of our students rotate there.
 

VentdependenT

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Plinko said:
VetdependenT:

Are you sure the program at Cook County is a DO program? I thought Cook County (the Chicago hospital I'm guessing you're referring to) was the main public hospital in Chicago, and therefore not an osteopathic one. I'm not questioning your info. Just curious.
It just started this year. First two years are at St. James (intern yr and 1 year of gen surg) then next four are at Cook County. Plenty of cases as you would imagine. My friend matched there this year. CCOM has a seperate Uro program as well I believe. Yeah the head of Urology is a D.O. over there.
 

Yosh

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That's awesome...good good news for us.... :thumbup:
 

insidebeans

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I am the guy who matched at the University of Minnesota. Thought I might
clarify a few points.

As far as most PD's throwing out DO applications, that is sometimes true.
PD's too often see underqualified applicants applying to programs they do
not have a chance of matching at. Naturally these apps get trashed.
Because we are a minority in the application process, our demise is more
memorable. Additionally, the program that told me they pitch most DO
applications is a top 10 program that receives 250-300 applications per
year. Most of the applications they see are trashed anyway (MD or DO). If
you are a qualified applicant you will get interviews at good programs,
regardless of your degree. However, as a DO it is harder to get interviews
at the top tier programs. I would apply at institutions that have taken
DO's in the past (see above discussion) and in areas of the country that
have lots of osteopaths (esp midwest).

As a DO interested in the allopathic match I would have the following at
least; >230 USMLE I, good letter of rec from a major academic center and
high class rank. Research is good as it leads to letters from people you
know, but most people don't have research experience. As previously stated
I wasn't involved in EVERYTHING, but used class counsil and the presidency
of the Student Osteopathic Surgical Assoc to round out my CV.

Lastly, I wouldn't broadly call the University of Minnesota hostile. The
general surgery department is what you might expect in a large academic
program; lots of work and you do lots of intern work. I have not
experienced any discrimination or differential treatment. Most people are
surprised to see my degree and are curious about what makes us different.
It is a great fourm to spread the word about osteopathy.

Good luck to all.
 

Molly Maquire

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Last year, a guy from NYCOM matched urology at Long Island Jewish Medical Center (LIJ). I don't know how this compares to U of Minn, but we all thought it was a pretty amazing match.

In addition to a strong USMLE STep 1, this guy was an anatomy fellow, with research experience and contacts. I believe he also rotated there. He told us a story that there was one attending who was adament on not taking a DO, but the residents changed his mind.

This is an important point for all students, but especially DOs. The best way to get into a small, highly competitive specialty is to do an "audition" rotation and impress the right people.
 

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Molly Maquire said:
Oh yeah. There is also a new Osteopathic urology program at Maimonides Hospital in Brooklyn, New York.
i have not taken the time to read this whole thread - but, FYI - any DO interested in urology should understand that the current match system.

ACGME urology programs do not participate in the NRMP - they have their own seperate match - match day is usually mid-January. because the AOA deadline to turn in your rank order list occurs after this (usually late-January), DO students can give it their best shot for an ACGME program - if if not matched - they can rank AOA urol programs. more on the urology match at:

http://www.auanet.org/residents/resmatch.cfm
 

bobo

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insidebeans said:
*
I am the guy who matched at the University of Minnesota. Thought I might
clarify a few points.

As far as most PD's throwing out DO applications, that is sometimes true.
PD's too often see underqualified applicants applying to programs they do
not have a chance of matching at. Naturally these apps get trashed.
Because we are a minority in the application process, our demise is more
memorable. Additionally, the program that told me they pitch most DO
applications is a top 10 program that receives 250-300 applications per
year. Most of the applications they see are trashed anyway (MD or DO). If
you are a qualified applicant you will get interviews at good programs,
regardless of your degree. However, as a DO it is harder to get interviews
at the top tier programs. I would apply at institutions that have taken
DO's in the past (see above discussion) and in areas of the country that
have lots of osteopaths (esp midwest).

As a DO interested in the allopathic match I would have the following at
least; >230 USMLE I, good letter of rec from a major academic center and
high class rank. Research is good as it leads to letters from people you
know, but most people don't have research experience. As previously stated
I wasn't involved in EVERYTHING, but used class counsil and the presidency
of the Student Osteopathic Surgical Assoc to round out my CV.

Lastly, I wouldn't broadly call the University of Minnesota hostile. The
general surgery department is what you might expect in a large academic
program; lots of work and you do lots of intern work. I have not
experienced any discrimination or differential treatment. Most people are
surprised to see my degree and are curious about what makes us different.
It is a great fourm to spread the word about osteopathy.

Good luck to all.
Hey this is great, "that guy" finally posted. Now if we could just find the other "that guy" who was a neurosurgery chief resident in California and "that guy" from AZCOM who matched derm somewhere, we will have all three DO match legends.
 

Boomer

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insidebeans said:
*
I am the guy who matched at the University of Minnesota. Thought I might
clarify a few points.

As far as most PD's throwing out DO applications, that is sometimes true.
PD's too often see underqualified applicants applying to programs they do
not have a chance of matching at. Naturally these apps get trashed.
Because we are a minority in the application process, our demise is more
memorable. Additionally, the program that told me they pitch most DO
applications is a top 10 program that receives 250-300 applications per
year. Most of the applications they see are trashed anyway (MD or DO). If
you are a qualified applicant you will get interviews at good programs,
regardless of your degree. However, as a DO it is harder to get interviews
at the top tier programs. I would apply at institutions that have taken
DO's in the past (see above discussion) and in areas of the country that
have lots of osteopaths (esp midwest).

As a DO interested in the allopathic match I would have the following at
least; >230 USMLE I, good letter of rec from a major academic center and
high class rank. Research is good as it leads to letters from people you
know, but most people don't have research experience. As previously stated
I wasn't involved in EVERYTHING, but used class counsil and the presidency
of the Student Osteopathic Surgical Assoc to round out my CV.

Lastly, I wouldn't broadly call the University of Minnesota hostile. The
general surgery department is what you might expect in a large academic
program; lots of work and you do lots of intern work. I have not
experienced any discrimination or differential treatment. Most people are
surprised to see my degree and are curious about what makes us different.
It is a great fourm to spread the word about osteopathy.

Good luck to all.

What's up B? Freezin' em off yet? Guess they're finally starting to thaw....

I can't speak for Uro (my grades weren't THAT good--plus some other dingus was already president of SOSA and class rep....), but I'll second the statement that U of M is not DO unfriendly. I got an interview for IM there with a handwritten note from the PD, referring to the fact that they were excited about DO applicants, and do not receive great numbers of apps from us. I ended up elsewhere (different story), but most certainly plan to make U of M high on my list of fellowship choices....
 

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I've been wondering why Uro is such a competitive specialty. Is it because as a surgical subspecialty? Lifestyle? or just a desire to work on everyone's peeper? :confused:

Okay, that last one was just for fun, but the rest was serious. Maybe it's me but I just don't understand why it's so competitive...must be lifestyle, yes?
 

moo

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When I rotated through urology, I didn't think the residents or even the attendings had that great a lifestyle. It's probably better than most other surgical subspecialties though. For example, my resident would get in around 6am (I'd get in around 5:30), we'd round for an hour, then either go to the OR or to clinic. With all the conferences and the fact that we'd have to cover all the cases, my residents typically didn't get out till at least 7pm. And there were countless times when they got out past that. Even attendings get there early and stay way late, because of either conferences, or of cases running late. I really don't think it's the lifestyle that draws people to urology, but rather the fact that it's actually kind of interesting.
 
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