Which US Schools should I apply to? V. GOOD ECs

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Stop talking out your a**. Seriously, please.

Are you saying that there is no real difference in grading between universities (probably because you go to an easy one)? Please be straightforward; I am.

I'm just going to come out and say it that you are a *****. I was trying to put it in a nice way but what scares me is that I don't think you are a troll, I think you are a real idiot 20 year old who thinks he's some kind of super elite premed. I look forward to hearing about your rejections on SDN when they laugh at your PS.

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The way that you belittle other schools is no different than someone from UChicago belittling UToronto. How would you feel?
 
I HAVE NOT BELITTLED OTHERS. IT IS ONLY THOSE FEW WHO ARE BELITTLING ME. Please read the posts. ALL I AM SAYING IS I HAD GRADE DEFLATION (WITH PROOF). Deal with THAT. and stop changing the subject due to STUPID insecurity that makes you think those at tougher unis aren't smarter than you, and so you always have to deny someones grade deflation. My school has grade deflation not because it is top 20 but because the top 10% in it have a GPA of exactly 3.5 (Honours List). I wouldn't feel belittled if someone from Harvard told me he had grade deflation. I would look into it and treat it objectively instead of PURELY personally and immaturely (trying to disprove it) as is being done here by a few. Feeling belittled if someone from an actually-harder university tells you that the reason for their lower GPA is that they're program is harder (without trying to insult you) is their problem.

ColeSmalls, I will repeat my post to you because you ignore my questions:

Stop talking out your a**. Seriously, please.

Are you saying that there is no real difference in grading between universities (probably because you go to an easy one)? Please be straightforward; I am.

Are you stating that being the top 5% at my university (3.7, the A MINUS) should be just as difficult as being the top 15% at another (3.7)? Seriously, is that what you mean?

Feel free to answer the above questions to finally be straight to the point.
I'm going to work on my apps for now so I won't be responding for quite a while.
 
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I'm just going to come out and say it that you are a *****. I was trying to put it in a nice way but what scares me is that I don't think you are a troll, I think you are a real idiot 20 year old who thinks he's some kind of super elite premed. I look forward to hearing about your rejections on SDN when they laugh at your PS.
He's definitely not a troll, he has shared these same views over at the Canadian version of SDN.:shifty:
 
I HAVE NOT BELITTLED OTHERS. IT IS ONLY THOSE FEW WHO ARE BELITTLING ME. Please read the posts. ALL I AM SAYING IS I HAD GRADE DEFLATION (WITH PROOF). Deal with THAT. and stop changing the subject due to insecurity. I wouldn't feel belittled if someone from Harvard told me he had grade deflation. I would look into it and treat it objectively instead of PURELY personally and immaturely (trying to disprove it) as is being done here by a few. Feeling belittled if someone from an actually-harder university tells you that the reason for their lower GPA is that they're program is harder (without trying to insult you) is their problem.

ColeSmalls, I will repeat my post to you because you ignore my questions:

Stop talking out your a**. Seriously, please.

Are you saying that there is no real difference in grading between universities (probably because you go to an easy one)? Please be straightforward; I am.

Are you stating that being the top 5% at my university (3.7, the A MINUS) should be just as difficult as being the top 15% at another (3.7)? Seriously, is that what you mean?

Feel free to answer the above questions to finally be straight to the point.
I'm going to work on my apps for now so I won't be responding for quite a while.


Ill bet you 1,000 dollars that I could go to your university and get an A in general chem, ill put it that way.

What do you know about top anything? your mcat and gpa are nowhere near the top so why do you keep acting like you're on your own level? you aren't special, theres nothing about your app that's really all that impressive to me. When you apply this cycle you will likely get rejected everywhere and schools will email you just to thank you for the donation you made.
 
Ill bet you 1,000 dollars that I could go to your university and get an A in general chem, ill put it that way.

What do you know about top anything? your mcat and gpa are nowhere near the top so why do you keep acting like you're on your own level? you aren't special, theres nothing about your app that's really all that impressive to me. When you apply this cycle you will likely get rejected everywhere and schools will email you just to thank you for the donation you made.

Bet what you want. You're delusional. I show you facts that the top 10% is 3.5 and you say that it's just as difficult. You're just extremely arrogant (like most others here who underestimate challenges they haven't faced. Most of you have the Lake Wobegon effect), to put it simply.

I had 12 PS (95 percentile), for the 20th time, man. Only the English language (second language) VR brought my mark down. For someone with a 3.3 cGPA, getting a 28 IS ACTUALLY unusual. Usually people with 3.6 get that, if not 3.7-3.8. Look at SDN's threads.
 
I'm not going to argue with you. The fact is, however, that ADCOMs aren't going to give you much leeway for going to Toronto. You can yell on SDN all day long until you convince all of us, but guess what, it's not going to change that fact. You can also try to defend your case on your app, but in reality, that will only hurt you. It makes you look immature and naive, app-killer traits; don't do that.
 
Bet what you want. You're delusional. I show you facts that the top 10% is 3.5 and you say that it's just as difficult. You're just extremely arrogant (like most others here who underestimate challenges they haven't faced. Most of you have the Lake Wobegon effect), to put it simply.

I had 12 PS (95 percentile), for the 20th time, man.

and you also had a 30th percentile VR score, Lmao.
 
and you also had a 30th percentile VR score, Lmao.
Go be proud about yourself that you are good at English. Go write some books. How about you take a Spanish/French/Arabic/ any foreign language version of VR to know what it's like? I have more of a challenge than you do. You seem to think everyone speaks English as you do. It's a sign of respect to learn another person's language. So please respect me back.

Your extreme lack of consideration that VR is my second langauge when it comes to judging me (which you shouldnt even be doing) just screams redneck arrogance. Also shows me you're immature.
 
I hope you believe in miracles because that's what you're going to need to get accepted.
 
Go be proud about yourself that you are good at English. Go write some books. How about you take a Spanish version of VR to know what it's like? I have more of a challenge than you do.

Your extreme lack of consideration that VR is my second langauge when it comes to judging me (which you shouldnt even be doing) just screams redneck arrogance. Also shows me you're immature.

Funny you say that when a good friend of mine who mastered english as a THIRD language scored a 13 on VR.
 
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I don't believe you.

That's because the truth hurts. And the truth is VR raped you. And not because it's VR, it's because you just suck at it. No excuses. You just suck at it. You are not elite, you're just an average pre med like me. You can't blame it on english being a second language, many have succeeded where you failed.
 
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lol this thread is unreal.
great comic relief during such a stressful time.
 
How about you take a Spanish/French/Arabic/ any foreign language version of VR to know what it's like? I have more of a challenge than you do.

Good thing we aren't going to med school in Spain, Mexico, France or Saudi Arabia then :rolleyes:

Shouldn't you be banging out your application and not be on SDN so you don't submit your letters to schools late this time?
 
This is a reminder: Personal attacks are not allowed.

If you aren't here to advise the OP in a calm and collected manner, then do not post.

I am just trying to do the OP a favor and wake him up. His attitude will be the end of him.
 
I'll throw another comment in the ring because I've given advice to you, AshPreMed, from the beginning of this thread.

I believe you about grade deflation from UofT. Those schools exist and I have no reason to not believe you. But this is not what's sinking your app this cycle. The VR 6 is, the very late nature of your app, and your apparent lack of clinical experience. Please respond to this last statement. It is extremely late in the game to now have your primary in. It can take over a month to be verified. Is it even possible to still submit an application through AMCAS at this point? This undoubtedly lowers your chances, significantly at non-rolling schools.

And clinical experience? You've neglected to acknowledge this concern the entire thread, maybe because you have some. But if you don't at least have some shadowing (50hrs being "average"), you will likely be passed up for interview, even if your stats were stellar.

Also, don't accuse me of being a hypocrite or of trying to undermine your application to increase my own chances. I'm only trying to help you out with some advice. You may be right there is no significant disadvantage of being a reapplicant (I still believe there is), but I think sparing yourself the time, money, energy and emotional investment of applying twice is worth it.
 
I don't believe you.

I also know of several people who are English as a second language and have gotten 12s -14s on the VR section. No one is going to care that your are ESL when you apply ... good english/communication skills are crucial in a a physician's profession, so it's highly unlikely that you will be given any leeway with this.
 
I'll throw another comment in the ring because I've given advice to you, AshPreMed, from the beginning of this thread.

I believe you about grade deflation from UofT. Those schools exist and I have no reason to not believe you. But this is not what's sinking your app this cycle. The VR 6 is, the very late nature of you app, and your apparent lack of clinical experience. Please respond to this last statement. It is extremely late in the game to now have your primary in. It can take over a month to be verified. Is it even possible to still submit an application through AMCAS at this point? This undoubtedly lowers your chances, significantly at non-rolling schools.

And clinical experience? You've neglected to acknowledge this concern the entire thread, maybe because you have some. But if you don't at least have some shadowing (50hrs being "average"), you will likely be passed up for interview, even if your stats were stellar.

Also, don't accuse me of being a hypocrite or of trying to undermine your application to increase my own chances. I'm only trying to help you out with some advice. You may be right there is no significant disadvantage of being a reapplicant (I still believe there is), but I think sparing yourself the time, money, energy and emotional investment of applying twice is worth it.

I think schools may give Canadians a bit of leeway with regards to shadowing since it is questionably legal here. I have no shadowing at all and I've gotten interviews from multiple schools (though I do have considerable other clinical experience).

Regardless, I agree with everyone though OP, even if you had a 3.7 GPA like you say you deserve I would still tell you to hold off for this cycle. It is extremely late and the 6 VR will get you screened out everywhere. It's also concerning that you want to apply to 20-30 schools and throw away thousands of dollars, when you have an almost negligible chance of admission.
 
1. ^ Woah... godly stats Taranis

2. I have never seen a WAMC thread getting this much attention lol
 
I found a quote from a med student on the board that I think is very applicable:

Umm... well, if you just recently submitted your secondaries, your chances aren't 0 but....

Basically, submitting your secondary (and all supporting documentation, LORs, etc.) any time after Aug 31 is going to hurt, after Sept 30 is stupid, and after Oct 31 is basically forfeiting your any legitimate consideration. In the words of one Director of Admissions at a school with very slow rolling admissions, "I don't know why they even keep AMCAS open past September or we accept applications after October 1, because any application marked 'Complete' after October 1 is 'late' in my book. Right now [in mid-June], I already have enough primary applications to easily fill our next class several times over with well-qualified applicants. I could stop taking applications now and everyone would be happy."
 
Unfortunately, VR is weighed the heaviest out of the three sub-sections (unfortunate, I know, but it's the truth; there is evidence out there that this score has the highest correlation to med school performance ... even more than BS/PS). Second of all, no one cares what university you went to and what it's ranked. The sooner that you get that superiority complex out of your head, the better off you'll be. A 3.2 at UT is probably worse than a 3.9 at community college of nowhere.

Third of all, as everyone in this thread said, I really think you should take a year off to raise your GPA and retake your MCAT. Your ECs look very strong asides from the lack of clinical exp/shadowing, but no one really cares about stuff done in high school and any other test aside from the MCAT, so don't include those on your apps.

Hope this helps ...

It is wrong for anyone to think that a certain section is weighed the heaviest or to lead others to believe it is based on misinformation being present online. Most of us are not even on the admissions committee. Even if certain schools consider the VR section as the most important section that does not define the parameters set by all schools. You need to read pubmed, BS has the highest correlation with your Step 1 scores which would most likely make it the most important section on the MCAT.

"There was a significant correlation between the step 1 score and both TGPA (r = 0.16, p = 0.001) and SGPA (r = 0.22, p = 0.001). No significant relationship was found between bachelors and post-baccalaureate degrees. Scores on the BS and PS sections of the MCAT were significantly correlated with step 1 scores (r = 0.33, p = 0.001 and r = 0.24, p = 0.001), in contrast to the VR section, which was not significant. "

"No significant relationship was found between step 2 scores and bachelors or post-baccalaureate degrees, scores on the PS and VR sections of the MCAT."

"Medical school performance measures from 11 studies and medical board licensing examinations from 18 studies, for a total of 23 studies, were selected. A random-effects model meta-analysis of weighted effects sizes (r) resulted in (1) a predictive validity coefficient for the MCAT in the preclinical years of r = 0.39 (95% confidence interval [CI], 0.21–0.54) and on the USMLE Step 1 of r = 0.60 (95% CI, 0.50–0.67); and (2) the biological sciences subtest as the best predictor of medical school performance in the preclinical years (r = 0.32 95% CI, 0.21–0.42) and on the USMLE Step 1 (r = 0.48 95% CI, 0.41–0.54)."

Based on recent research, The VR section has little effect on medical school performance and little to do with the Step 1 and 2.

Resource:-

1) Impact of preadmission variables on USMLE step 1 and step 2 performance

James Kleshinski1 , Sadik A. Khuder1, Joseph I. Shapiro1 and Jeffrey P. Gold2.

2) The Predictive Validity of the MCAT for Medical School Performance and Medical Board Licensing Examinations: A Meta-Analysis of the Published Research

Donnon, Tyrone PhD; Paolucci, Elizabeth Oddone PhD; Violato, Claudio PhD



I am not the type that buys into random stuff listed online. I go straight to pubmed and look for scientific proof. Quite frankly the numbers/results don't indicate that the VR section should be or is the most important section at all. With that being said to the OP, you will get screened with the 6 VR score it's just too low for MD standards. You need to some how bring it above an 8 and keep your sciences solid to give yourself a shot. Realistically this late in the cycle with a 6 on the VR your chances will be < 1 % I would suggest you look into SN2ed's study schedule for the MCAT, utilize Examkrackers and retake the beast.

Ill bet you 1,000 dollars that I could go to your university and get an A in general chem, ill put it that way.

Making personal attacks against others is definitely not appreciated but I couldn't help but notice one thing. Don't you think that's a pretty bold statement coming from someone with your academic record?
 
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Making personal attacks against others is definitely not appreciated but I couldn't help but notice one thing. Don't you think that's a pretty bold statement coming from someone with your academic record?

Ouch lol.

To your other points, the studies you've shown are probably true. It's still well known atleast for the moment that verbal get's the most scrutiny from adcoms. I've heard of people getting in with a 7, but I think a 6 will make it very difficult.
 
Ouch lol.

To your other points, the studies you've shown are probably true. It's still well known atleast for the moment that verbal get's the most scrutiny from adcoms. I've heard of people getting in with a 7, but I think a 6 will make it very difficult.

I agree, I have seen multiple individuals get accepted to medical school with a 7 in the VR but that's not the norm. I have definitely never seen or heard of anyone get into an Allopathic medical school with a 7 on the BS though which would probably mean that the BS section is more important especially with the significant correlation it has with pre-clinical and step 1 exams based on results from multiple recent researches. Any way I'm not trying to repeat the same thing over and over again.
I just want the OP to know that a low VR score due to English being a second language is understandable. However that excuse can only be used if the VR score is >8 and there's a high risk but a possibility with a 7 in the VR. That excuse won't work with anything < 7 since ADCOM will simply demand a retake with some form of improvement.
 
Making personal attacks against others is definitely not appreciated but I couldn't help but notice one thing. Don't you think that's a pretty bold statement coming from someone with your academic record?

considering I received an A in gen chem, not really. Dont you have a URM thread to promote? im pretty sure thats the main reason you got into MD school anyways, lol. cute how you changed your stats in your mdapps, btw. But I remember what they were, like mine they were far from good, just like the OPs. Which was the point I was making.
 
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Taking advice about keeping your butthole tight from a kid that recently pooped his pants does not sound very logical.

Just because magic happened for the kids with super low stats, does not mean magic will happen to you, too.

I can understand taking advice from medical students and premeds that actually have their act together, but advice from people with poop for stats doesn't make sense.
 
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Taking advice about keeping your butthole tight from a kid that recently pooped his pants does not sound very logical.

Just because magic happened for the kids with super low stats, does not mean magic will happen to you, too.

I can understand taking advice from medical students and premeds that actually have their act together, but advice from people with poop for stats doesn't make sense.

Did this post make sense to anyone?
 
How is this thread not closed?
 
I'd like to keep this thread open please, I am still applying and looking for useful advice. Anyone interested in posting useful advice that is rational and supported (cough cough, ColeSmalls) can do so. I don't think my thread should be closed just because some kid came here and pooped in it (cough cough).

Thank you.

Regards,

Ash
 
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considering I received an A in gen chem, not really. Dont you have a URM thread to promote? im pretty sure thats the main reason you got into MD school anyways, lol. cute how you changed your stats in your mdapps, btw. But I remember what they were, like mine they were far from good, just like the OPs. Which was the point I was making.

How about I served in the Marine Corp while attending college full time? you wouldn't know anything about that.
I like your attempt to belittle premeds and medical students in the same thread, you sir are a complete joke to this forum. Now if you excuse me I actually have to study for medical school ehh you wouldn't know anything about that either :laugh:
 
Thanks, Flodhi1, for your useful and very reliable research.

To the few feuding others: Please don't turn my thread into a flame war. If you want to discuss/argue/insult someone (not that its allowed) without contributing anything positive to the forum then at least do it in private messages or use the Report button if you feel really abused. You would avoid getting more people (who may go against you) into the conflict (a world flame-war, lol) and you also get to avoid the embarrassment of fighting over little words that shall vanish into the infinite "ocean" of the Internet. Regards.
 
Neither does your 27 mcat...

Lol typical cheeseball without a personality. Fresh out of the tiger mom's womb. I am sure you had a wonderful childhood while I became an all-american and played professional sports. Toss in a your mom joke while you can. Lol loser doesn't pick up on jokes.
 
So... I'm choosing my list of schools. I'm applying to about 60 schools. Costing about $2,300. Is that okay?

How many is a good number?
I'm choosing schools with a 10 percentile of 3.4-3.5 GPA (if not lower) and MCAT of 28-30. I have a cGPA of 3.3, 3rd year GPA of 3.78, MCAT of (12PS,10BS,6VR,P, I indicated that Eng is my 2nd lang), and outstanding ECs (I think).

Is it fine to select about 5-6 areas of studies for the PhD options?

Is the "Last MCAT date: September 1" strict? I wrote mine on Sept 7. I noticed many schools had typos, so maybe they meant to say "anything in september" but lazily just chose Sept (and by default it became 1)? I mean why in the world should it matter, there are only 3 more dates after Sept 1.

Lastly, at what time is the Sept. 8 deadline?

Thanks
 
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This just keeps getting better. You're applying to MD/PhD programs?

Also, I'm sure if you just email those schools about their lazy choice of a Sept 1 deadline they'll be sure to waive it for you.
 
So... I'm choosing my list of schools. I'm applying to about 60 schools. Costing about $2,300. Is that okay?

How many is a good number?
I'm choosing schools with a 10 percentile of 3.4-3.5 GPA (if not lower) and MCAT of 28-30. I have a cGPA of 3.3, 3rd year GPA of 3.78, MCAT of (12PS,10BS,6VR,P, I indicated that Eng is my 2nd lang), and outstanding ECs (I think).

Is it fine to select about 5-6 areas of studies for the PhD options?

Is the "Last MCAT date: September 1" strict? I wrote mine on Sept 7. I noticed many schools had typos, so maybe they meant to say "anything in september" but lazily just chose Sept (and by default it became 1)? I mean why in the world should it matter, there are only 3 more dates after Sept 1.

Lastly, at what time is the Sept. 8 deadline?

Thanks

Before you apply, look at each school's deadline (either on its website or in MSAR). Make sure that you can submit each secondary application before the school's deadline. Keep in mind that you will need a couple of weeks to be verified by AMCAS, another several days for schools to receive your primary, acknowledge it, possibly screen you, and send you a secondary invite. Timelines may be protracted a bit with the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday.

Then, you have to complete the secondary applications. Doing 60 of them is a huge (!) undertaking. Assume also that you'll pay an average of about $80 per secondary that you submit.

Also, do yourself a favor by not basing your list purely on stats. For example, I recommend that you eliminate any schools from outside your state that have a huge in-state bias (e.g., when 90% of the matriculants have in-state residency). You won't have a shot at many of these schools without strong ties to the state, regardless of how good your stats are.
 
Is it fine to do my last Organic chemistry course in the summer before acceptance? I wasn't able to take it before due to course schedule conflict.

Also, with my GPA, shouldn't I expect to get secondaries for max of 20 of 60?

Do schools see how many schools I applied to?
 
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2300 for the primary only. with each schools secondary at around 70-100 dollars if you really apply to all those (GL with all those essays) youre looking at well over $8000
 
BUT DO I GET ALL THE SECONDARIES? HOW MANY SECONDARIES SHOULD I EXPECT?
That is all.
 
BUT DO I GET ALL THE SECONDARIES? HOW MANY SECONDARIES SHOULD I EXPECT?
That is all.

You should probably keep typing in all caps; it makes people super inclined to help you.
That is all.
 
OP, I think you have a great chance at MD/PhD acceptance. :smuggrin:
 
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