who is a minority?

[Lisochka]

Who are minorities? Someone said that Croasian are not minority.
I am Russian, but permanent resident in the US. Am I minority?
Or minority are mexican's and that is it?

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[yellowpersuazio]

Who are minorities? Someone said that Croasian are not minority.
I am Russian, but permanent resident in the US. Am I minority?
Or minority are mexican's and that is it?

I think basically, if you're of white descent (European descent to be more PC i suppose), then you wouldn't be considered a minority. It's mainly African Americans, Native Americans, and Hispanics.

 

[skypilot]

That is correct.

If you have some specific disadvantage in your background you could check off that section and discuss your disadvantage though. It also might make a good inspiring story for your personal statement.

 

[Rafa]

Pacific Islanders also count as URMs.

However, if you were born outside of the US (and you lived out of the US for at least a few years), then you've got more than enough ammo for a personal essay on how that's influenced you as a naturalized citizen. Or if you came from a disadvantaged background - lacking in financial resources, etc. You don't have to be a URM to be unique come application time.

 

[HCW212]

What about Asians?

 

[beponychick]

Who are minorities? Someone said that Croasian are not minority.
I am Russian, but permanent resident in the US. Am I minority?
Or minority are mexican's and that is it?

I am also Russian, and no we are not minorities.

However, in my person statement I addressed the issue of my family relocating to the US, mainly because of the Chernobyl disaster (we lived REALLY close). So although being an immigrant does not make you a mionority and may not necessarily make you disadvataged, you can still bring up many of the hardships you faced in your essays.

 

[LizzyM]

URM means "under-represented in medicine". So, if a particular ethnic/racial group makes up x% of the population but x-y% of the physicians of the population then the group is URM. The AAMC no longer makes a list of groups that are considered URM. IIRC, each school is supposed to determine that for its local population.

 

[Hollaback Girl]

So does that mean Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc. might count depending on the school?

 

[abcehmu]

I think basically, if you're of white descent (European descent to be more PC i suppose), then you wouldn't be considered a minority. It's mainly African Americans, Native Americans, and Hispanics.

not necessarily.....many Latinos are of European descent....predominantly from Spain, but a lot from other places as well...for example, many in Chile and Argentina come from Italy. Under the new less defined AAMC guidelines for minority applicants, some schools are considering all Latinos minorities regardless of race.

 

[BaylorGuy]

I think basically, if you're of white descent (European descent to be more PC i suppose), then you wouldn't be considered a minority. It's mainly African Americans, Native Americans, and Hispanics.

I'm not a minority also, even though my parents are Arab...i'm White, as is everyone from European, middle-eastern, and northern african descent

 

[Vizsla]

So does that mean Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc. might count depending on the school?

I HIGHLY doubt any school considers Asians a minority....perhaps if you are looking at a school that historically only receives very few applications from Asian students, they might look at ur app differently bc you would help diversify their class....but frankly, I dont really know of any schools that are lacking an adequate number of Asian applicants...

 

[retroMD]

Last time I checked the AAMC website it stated that "URM" status is given to those who are African American, American Indian, Mexican American, or Mainland Puerto Ricans. I believe you sign up when you take your MCAT's. It's called the The Medical Minority Applicant Registry (Med-MAR.) The website http://www.aamc.org/students/minorities/resources/medmar.htm has all the information about who is currently considered an under-represented minority.

Basically the site says that they put you in a Registry and then med schools can check it and pick you for an interview based on what their student body is lacking. So I guess it ultimately depends on the school.

 

[Lisochka]

I HIGHLY doubt any school considers Asians a minority....perhaps if you are looking at a school that historically only receives very few applications from Asian students, they might look at ur app differently bc you would help diversify their class....but frankly, I dont really know of any schools that are lacking an adequate number of Asian applicants...

Why Asian or Croasian or whatever are not considered as minority?
The point is- they are not majority in the US, right? And especially in medicine.

 

[pnasty]

i think when it comes to applying asians (especially south asians) have a disadvantage because the doctor ratio is so much higher than the normal population

 

[LizzyM]

Why Asian or Croasian or whatever are not considered as minority?
The point is- they are not majority in the US, right? And especially in medicine.

URM is not about being the majority but rather being "under-represented".

Let's say that a particular group makes up 15% of the US population but only 3% of practicing physicains belong to that ethnic/racial group. That group would be classified as URM.

 

[abcehmu]

Last time I checked the AAMC website it stated that "URM" status is given to those who are African American, American Indian, Mexican American, or Mainland Puerto Ricans. I believe you sign up when you take your MCAT's. It's called the The Medical Minority Applicant Registry (Med-MAR.) The website http://www.aamc.org/students/minorities/resources/medmar.htm has all the information about who is currently considered an under-represented minority.

Basically the site says that they put you in a Registry and then med schools can check it and pick you for an interview based on what their student body is lacking. So I guess it ultimately depends on the school.

The policies have recently changed. That was the old definition. The new definition is a lot more vague and broader. I don't remember there being any Med-Mar when I took the MCAT in April.

 

[deuist]

Minority = anyone not white. However, the Asians and Asian Indians---while still considered minorities---are over represented in medical school. Only, Blacks, Latinos, and American Indians are going to get affirmative action benefits.

 

[G-Man82]

Yeah, I don't think selection committees look at the overall population percentages to determine who's a minority. If that were the case, then Asians (and in this case Asians include South and East Asians as mandated by the government) would be amongst the lowest at about 4% of the US population compared to African Americans and Latinos at over 10% each. But when it comes to applying to medical school, African-Americans, Latinos (not counted as being from Spain - those are European and therefore Caucasian), and Native Americans are underreprsented. So AdComs in general consider people whose ethnicities fall into those 3 racial categories to be minorities. Us (South/East) Asians and Caucasians are considered as part of the majority in general.

 

[Surgess]

Yeah, I don't think selection committees look at the overall population percentages to determine who's a minority. If that were the case, then Asians (and in this case Asians include South and East Asians as mandated by the government) would be amongst the lowest at about 4% of the US population compared to African Americans and Latinos at over 10% each. But when it comes to applying to medical school, African-Americans, Latinos (not counted as being from Spain - those are European and therefore Caucasian), and Native Americans are underreprsented. So AdComs in general consider people whose ethnicities fall into those 3 racial categories to be minorities. Us (South/East) Asians and Caucasians are considered as part of the majority in general.

For some reason, I'm sensing a lot of recumbent "animosity" in these posts when referring to minorities. You all have forgotten or may not be aware of what the largest group of minorities is in reference to benefiting from affirmative action...... white women. Just because you happen to be an URM does not guarantee your acceptance into medical school. You still have to be an outstanding student with excellent grades, scores, LORs and varied experiences. It is important for everyone to understand how much more interesting your medical school experience will be if you have a diverse group of folks to learn from in your class. Your patients will come from all walks of life and from every group you can imagine. It's important that all patients have an opportunity to find a doctor that they feel comfortable with and that they feel they can relate to.

 

[riceman04]

For some reason, I'm sensing a lot of "unveiled animosity" in these posts when referring to minorities. You all have forgotten or may not be aware of what the largest group of minorities is in reference to benefiting from affirmative action...... white women. Just because you happen to be an URM does not guarantee your acceptance into medical school. You still have to be an outstanding student with excellent grades, LOR and varied experiences. It is important for everyone to understand how much more interesting your medical school experience will be if you have a diverse group of folks to learn from in your class. Your patients will come from all walks of life and from every group you can imagine. It's important that all patients have an opportunity to find a doctor that they feel comfortable with and that they feel they can relate to.

ok so as a minority I am tell you that you should not even try and elicit those feelings. You are trying to beat a dead bush. People will always believe what they want to believe. Let's just leave it at that b/c at this point nothing will be learned through "harmless dialogue."

 

[LizzyM]

Asians make up 5% of the US population (and 58% of the population of Hawaii) http://www.census.gov/Press-Release...cts_for_features_special_editions/004522.html. Asians made up 18-20% of the matriculants of US medical schools in 2002-04.

American Indians and Alaska Natives make up 1.5% of the US population in 2000. They made up 0.8-1.1% of the medical school matriculants in 2002-04.

You could do the same with other groups.

 

[TracksuitsRock]

Who are minorities? Someone said that Croasian are not minority.
I am Russian, but permanent resident in the US. Am I minority?
Or minority are mexican's and that is it?

nope, only mexicans

 

[Surgess]

ok so as a minority I am tell you that you should not even try and elicit those feelings. You are trying to beat a dead bush. People will always believe what they want to believe. Let's just leave it at that b/c at this point nothing will be learned through "harmless dialogue."

What?

 

[TracksuitsRock]

You all have forgotten or may not be aware of what the largest group of minorities is in reference to benefiting from affirmative action...... white women.

Please tell me you did not check the URM box on your application because you're a woman

 

[riceman04]

What?

I meant to say type "telling"

the point is dont even bring it up b/c it is useless to do so.

 

[UMP]

Asians make up 5% of the US population (and 58% of the population of Hawaii) http://www.census.gov/Press-Release...cts_for_features_special_editions/004522.html. Asians made up 18-20% of the matriculants of US medical schools in 2002-04.

American Indians and Alaska Natives make up 1.5% of the US population in 2000. They made up 0.8-1.1% of the medical school matriculants in 2002-04.

You could do the same with other groups.

wow, I didn't know asians were that much over-represented. So does this make it harder for an asian with the same stats as a caucasian to get in ?

 

[LizzyM]

wow, I didn't know asians were that much over-represented. So does this make it harder for an asian with the same stats as a caucasian to get in ?

I don't know about "the same stats" part of the question but Asians are less likely to be admitted in comparison to whites. Here's the data on applicants and matriculants in 2004:

..................Asian.....White
matriculants 3,124 11,036
Not admitted 3,703 11,463
Total applicants 6,827 22,499

Had the two groups been equal in "proportion admitted" we would have expected to see 3,294 Asians and 10,866 Whites admitted. The difference is statistically significantly different but the actual number of Asians who would need to be admitted and whites not admitted to bring the two groups into parity is only 170 applicants!

 

[hannahx]

For some reason, I'm sensing a lot of recumbent "animosity" in these posts when referring to minorities. You all have forgotten or may not be aware of what the largest group of minorities is in reference to benefiting from affirmative action...... white women. Just because you happen to be an URM does not guarantee your acceptance into medical school. You still have to be an outstanding student with excellent grades, scores, LORs and varied experiences. It is important for everyone to understand how much more interesting your medical school experience will be if you have a diverse group of folks to learn from in your class. Your patients will come from all walks of life and from every group you can imagine. It's important that all patients have an opportunity to find a doctor that they feel comfortable with and that they feel they can relate to.

Eww. Don't go there. Just don't.

 

[UMP]

I don't know about "the same stats" part of the question but Asians are less likely to be admitted in comparison to whites. Here's the data on applicants and matriculants in 2004:

..................Asian.....White
matriculants 3,124 11,036
Not admitted 3,703 11,463
Total applicants 6,827 22,499

Had the two groups been equal in "proportion admitted" we would have expected to see 3,294 Asians and 10,866 Whites admitted. The difference is statistically significantly different but the actual number of Asians who would need to be admitted and whites not admitted to bring the two groups into parity is only 170 applicants!

that could easily be attributed to other factors... non-native speaker with poor communication skills, etc.

 

[infiniti]

I don't see why surgess shouldn't go there. I get tired of seeing "white women" roll their eyes when people talk about Afirmative Action. Everytime this happens, I just want to sit them down and teach them the history of white women in medical school and how without affirmative action, there would literally be no white woman in med school or any political office for that matter.

White women are the largest benefactor of AA in this country. No questions about it. AA is not only about numbers, it is about being given the opportunities that you deserve.

No one should be scared or intimidated to express their opinion (don't really care if it is for or against my argument) . SDN can be very conservative but that just makes it more interesting for me.

 

[LizzyM]

One of my friends graduated from medical school about 55 years ago. There were 8 women in her class; 4 on each of 2 cadavers. Twelve women would have been out of the question as would having men & women working together on dissections.

Much has happened since then.

Women are not a minority in medicine and they haven't been for at least 10 years. I would challenge you to find a school where they do not make up at least 45% of the student body. I do not know of any efforts to encourage women to apply to medical school or any special consideration that is given to women who apply and I don't believe that any is needed.

Perhaps someday we'll be at a point where there aren't any groups that are under-represented in medicine.

 

[infiniti]

LizzyM, the point isn't that women are minorities in medicine now. The point is that women were once minorities in medicine and thanks to affirmative action, that isn't the case anymore.

For someone who claims to be an Adcom, I am surprised you don't know this!

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

if people really want to debate AA they should read this thread and post there...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=245260

 

[infiniti]

You make my point for me. How do you think medical schools went from having "2" women in an entire class to having more than 50%? The answer is obvious. They were encouraged to apply and given some sort of preference.

That being said, I don't want to sound as if I am not happy with the accomplishments women have made in medicine. I am indeed very happy with what women have accomplished and continue to accomplish in this country. I am just saying it is ironic when (some) women act as though they are unaware about this very important piece of history.

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

You make my point for me. How do you think medical schools went from having "2" women in an entire class to having more than 50%? The answer is obvious. They were encouraged to apply and given some sort of preference.

That being said, I don't want to sound as if I am not happy with the accomplishments women have made in medicine. I am indeed very happy with what women have accomplished and continue to accomplish in this country. I am just saying it is ironic when (some) women act as though they are unaware about this very important piece of history.

I agree...

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

Question: Why do all threads remotely related to minorities turn into AA threads?? Is it just me or do they all start out the same way…

Sample AA thread: Hi All I am from Indonesia do I get AA

Response: No you don’t btw do you know Asians don’t get AA??

Response 2: AA sux…

Response 3: I am a poor white kid that grew up on the wrong side of the tracks blah blah blah…


Then the thread goes on and on… it gets quite old!!!

 

[Rafa]

Question: Why do all threads remotely related to minorities turn into AA threads?? Is it just me or do they all start out the same way…

Sample AA thread: Hi All I am from Indonesia do I get AA

Response: No you don’t btw do you know Asians don’t get AA??

Response 2: AA sux…

Response 3: I am a poor white kid that grew up on the wrong side of the tracks blah blah blah…


Then the thread goes on and on… it gets quite old!!!

LOL. FWIW, I agree with you, infiniti, and Sugress. Women aren't considered minorities *now* when applying to med school, but twenty, thirty years ago, it was another thing entirely. Since it came into place, by far the largest minority that's been helped by AA = women. And it continues today because there are still many occupations (high-stature ones in particular) where women are underrepresented. Just me two cents.

 

[Sanctuary]

One of my friends graduated from medical school about 55 years ago. There were 8 women in her class; 4 on each of 2 cadavers. Twelve women would have been out of the question as would having men & women working together on dissections.

Much has happened since then.

Women are not a minority in medicine and they haven't been for at least 10 years. I would challenge you to find a school where they do not make up at least 45% of the student body. I do not know of any efforts to encourage women to apply to medical school or any special consideration that is given to women who apply and I don't believe that any is needed.

Perhaps someday we'll be at a point where there aren't any groups that are under-represented in medicine.

Yes, and hopefully someday race won't exist (seeing as we all belong to the HUMAN race) and everyone will receive equal medical care. Until then....

 

[Dizz]

This thread caught my eye , being Mexican American I am considered a minority. Does that mean I get special help during Med School or anything? Or will I be "wanted" more per se.

I guess what im asking is what are the advantages of being a minority in Med School?

 

[Will Ferrell]

This thread caught my eye , being Mexican American I am considered a minority. Does that mean I get special help during Med School or anything? Or will I be "wanted" more per se.

I guess what im asking is what are the advantages of being a minority in Med School?

they'll forgive you if you score a couple points below a school's MCAT or GPA average. If you speak spanish, that's a double advantage.

 

[uvce]

You make my point for me. How do you think medical schools went from having "2" women in an entire class to having more than 50%? The answer is obvious. They were encouraged to apply and given some sort of preference.

That being said, I don't want to sound as if I am not happy with the accomplishments women have made in medicine. I am indeed very happy with what women have accomplished and continue to accomplish in this country. I am just saying it is ironic when (some) women act as though they are unaware about this very important piece of history.

But the percentage of girls choosing science and engineering as a career is still supposed to be very low, so there are a lot of efforts at the elementary and high school level to expose them to the opportunities and attract them. So if there weren't a conscious effort by medical schools to balance their classes, would the number of women doctors be much less?

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

But the percentage of girls choosing science and engineering as a career is still supposed to be very low, so there are a lot of efforts at the elementary and high school level to expose them to the opportunities and attract them. So if there weren't a conscious effort by medical schools to balance their classes, would the number of women doctors be much less?

in 2006 not by much... In 1976 yes...

 

[infiniti]

Couldn't say it better, Newton Bohr MD.

 

[uvce]

At least from 1994 onwards, the relative percentages of women and men seem to track pretty well between applicants, acceptees and matriculants, so I would think that there is no preferential treatment now.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/2005summary.htm

 

[LizzyM]

At least from 1994 onwards, the relative percentages of women and men seem to track pretty well between applicants, acceptees and matriculants, so I would think that there is no preferential treatment now.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/2005summary.htm

As an adcom member for >5 years, I can say that without even thinking about it we end up with ~50% women in each matriculating class. I tend not to even notice (when reading the application) if an applicant is male or female.

Women seem to be applying to med school in proportions that reflect their proportion in the population and there doesn't seem to be a need to tell girls that they can grow up to be doctors.

 

[Newton Bohr MD]

As an adcom member for >5 years, I can say that without even thinking about it we end up with ~50% women in each matriculating class. I tend not to even notice (when reading the application) if an applicant is male or female.

Women seem to be applying to med school in proportions that reflect their proportion in the population and there doesn't seem to be a need to tell girls that they can grow up to be doctors.

exactly.... hopefully in 10-30 years we can say the same thing about URM's

 

[Dizz]

they'll forgive you if you score a couple points below a school's MCAT or GPA average. If you speak spanish, that's a double advantage.

Yup im fluent in Spanish and speak a bit of other languages

 

[deuist]

exactly.... hopefully in 10-30 years we can say the same thing about URM's

Hopefully by then we'll get women into science and engineering classes.

 

[yellowpersuazio]

This thread caught my eye , being Mexican American I am considered a minority. Does that mean I get special help during Med School or anything? Or will I be "wanted" more per se.

I guess what im asking is what are the advantages of being a minority in Med School?

You'll be wanted more by med schools, that's for sure. As for getting help during med school, I doubt it. Maybe applying for residencies...

 

[Surgess]

You make my point for me. How do you think medical schools went from having "2" women in an entire class to having more than 50%? The answer is obvious. They were encouraged to apply and given some sort of preference.

That being said, I don't want to sound as if I am not happy with the accomplishments women have made in medicine. I am indeed very happy with what women have accomplished and continue to accomplish in this country. I am just saying it is ironic when (some) women act as though they are unaware about this very important piece of history.

So excited to see someone else with their eye on history. Thanks for elaborating on my thoughts exactly. I hope that these types of discussions won't be necessary in the future, but until then we need to look at things in a factual way. We can't really get any better if we don't take an honest approach to the problems we face.