Who is taking or is tempted to use aderall

[Masticate3Xaday]

In order to study and pass anatomy exams? I know people in the class are using it to cram all this info in their head, and use is quite common. I haven't done it, nor do I want to, but I'm very tempted just so I can keep up in the class.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Belleza156]

This year's material has seemingly doubled from last year. I feel like I'm struggling to keep up, barely passing and that's not a comfortable position. I need to be able to be in a comfortable B range-passing so I can ignore going to class and study for Step 1.

That being said I made an appointment for a psychiatrist for this week. Figured I would go and have someone more objective than me assess if I really need it. Lots of people in my class take it without a prescription to study for exams, the problem is we have an exam almost every fk'ing week which easily creates a dependence on the adderall/ritalin/focalin/concerta/etc pill. Obviously the pill will make studying easier, whether your the laziest joe or the straight up gunner, the pill will help (although they say it has an opposite effect on someone without ADD....but I have yet to meet one of these people).

So if you are going to use it, use it legally, get seen by a psychiatrist. You are going into the medical career so you should go about things the right way, otherwise there is not much of a difference between taking an unprescribed Adderall and buying crank at your neighborhood drug point, they would both be illegal substances for you to be in possession of. It will be especially useful to have a prescription if some crybaby or gunner type decides to snitch on you, and you can provide evidence of legal usage.

And to finish up my train of thought, don't take it unless you REALLY REALLY need it. If you start now, you may just continue taking it through residency and beyond. If you end up liking it, you may come to need it to study, and that's not a position any medical student should want to be in. We are pretty much lifers when it comes to studying.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

the psych resident i was working with advertised Modafinil...described it as "calm focus", haha. Tempted, yes. Would I ever take somethign like that, no.

 

[Masticate3Xaday]

So let me get this straight, before people even begin their medical careers, we're putting them on the path towards drug dependence. Good to know! No wonder drug abuse amongst physicians is quite high.

 

[Jack is Back]

I have undiagnosed ADD.

I'm fighting the good fight without PEDs

 

[b-real]

This year's material has seemingly doubled from last year. I feel like I'm struggling to keep up, barely passing and that's not a comfortable position. I need to be able to be in a comfortable B range-passing so I can ignore going to class and study for Step 1.

That being said I made an appointment for a psychiatrist for this week. Figured I would go and have someone more objective than me assess if I really need it. Lots of people in my class take it without a prescription to study for exams, the problem is we have an exam almost every fk'ing week which easily creates a dependence on the adderall/ritalin/focalin/concerta/etc pill. Obviously the pill will make studying easier, whether your the laziest joe or the straight up gunner, the pill will help (although they say it has an opposite effect on someone without ADD....but I have yet to meet one of these people).

So if you are going to use it, use it legally, get seen by a psychiatrist. You are going into the medical career so you should go about things the right way, otherwise there is not much of a difference between taking an unprescribed Adderall and buying crank at your neighborhood drug point, they would both be illegal substances for you to be in possession of. It will be especially useful to have a prescription if some crybaby or gunner type decides to snitch on you, and you can provide evidence of legal usage.

And to finish up my train of thought, don't take it unless you REALLY REALLY need it. If you start now, you may just continue taking it through residency and beyond. If you end up liking it, you may come to need it to study, and that's not a position any medical student should want to be in. We are pretty much lifers when it comes to studying.

So, you've got an appointment to try to get Adderall yourself, but you are imploring others that it leads to a path of addiction? Just because you can't keep up with M2 material is not a valid reason to get amphetamines. You're trying to keep up with the Jones'. Whatever gives you that edge... Also, it DOES work in increasing attention span, even for those who aren't ADHD. It's a misconception otherwise. However, you're a hypocrite.

 

[HolySmokes]

So, you've got an appointment to try to get Adderall yourself, but you are imploring others that it leads to a path of addiction? Just because you can't keep up with M2 material is not a valid reason to get amphetamines. You're trying to keep up with the Jones'. Whatever gives you that edge... Also, it DOES work in increasing attention span, even for those who aren't ADHD. It's a misconception otherwise. However, you're a hypocrite.

What in God's name are you babbling on about? He said that it's only something you should take if you really need it, and he made an appointment so that someone more qualified can tell him if he really needs it. That sounds like the reasonable thing to do. He's not being a hypocrite at all unless he decides to start taking it even without a psychiatrist's recommendation, which I didn't gather was his plan from what he posted.

 

[b-real]

What in God's name are you babbling on about? He said that it's only something you should take if you really need it, and he made an appointment so that someone more qualified can tell him if he really needs it. That sounds like the reasonable thing to do. He's not being a hypocrite at all unless he decides to start taking it even without a psychiatrist's recommendation, which I didn't gather was his plan from what he posted.

Save your nonsense. The poster suddenly thinks he (or is it she?) has attention deficit now that there's more material to learn and that everyone else is doing it. You can't tell people to be careful about using amphetamines and then go and actively seek it.

 

[FIREitUP]

please do yourself a favor and exercise/do yoga/meditate instead. it's absolutely not worth putting a drug in your body. even during step 1 studying I think you can dedicate 30 minutes to aerobic exercise.

 

[medigull]

I feel very strongly about the adderall issue. I stand strongly that there should be some sort of way for the schools to crack down on this. Its academic steroids. It is an unfair advantage. Also part of medical school isnt just learning the facts. Its learning the work ethic and discipline that when you get woken up at 3 in the morning 5 10 15 20 years down the line you can walk into that room and listen to a patient diagnose prescribe a medicine/run a code/do a surgery that you have done hundreds of times before and be focused while doing it. Cutting corners with stimulants doesnt build that character and focus. You will have a choice: learn it sometime down the road, continue taking the substance, or let the patients suffer. As for "legal prescriptions"-everyone knows who the vending machines for adderall are. A lot of the stuff is just a questionnaire "oh yeah I lose focus in lecture". If you didnt need adderall to get into medical school you dont need it now.


They did med school for years and years without adderall it shouldnt be commonplace now.

 

[danzman]

I feel very strongly about the adderall issue. I stand strongly that there should be some sort of way for the schools to crack down on this. Its academic steroids. It is an unfair advantage. Also part of medical school isnt just learning the facts. Its learning the work ethic and discipline that when you get woken up at 3 in the morning 5 10 15 20 years down the line you can walk into that room and listen to a patient diagnose prescribe a medicine/run a code/do a surgery that you have done hundreds of times before and be focused while doing it. Cutting corners with stimulants doesnt build that character and focus. You will have a choice: learn it sometime down the road, continue taking the substance, or let the patients suffer. As for "legal prescriptions"-everyone knows who the vending machines for adderall are. A lot of the stuff is just a questionnaire "oh yeah I lose focus in lecture". If you didnt need adderall to get into medical school you dont need it now.


They did med school for years and years without adderall it shouldnt be commonplace now.

So what?

I dont buy the "unfair advantage" argument or the "you shouldn't put drugs into your body" one either. Adults should have the ability to decide for themselves what they will and will not do to themselves.

I don't think any of these drugs gives anyone an advantage. It just creates a crutch for you to be distracted with. A guy in my class was hopped up on amphetamines and would drink 4 energy drinks a day. He was an absolute disaster who never slept, but "couldn't study" without them. It did him more harm than good.

That said, everything you put into your body changes it. If you are an informed adult, I see no reason why you can't make these decisions on your own. Coffee and alcohol are perfectly legal substances that are addictive, mind altering, and can be performance enhancing. To make the statement "drugs are bad, don't use drugs" is to not understand them in any context.

 

[NickNaylor]

So what?

I dont buy the "unfair advantage" argument or the "you shouldn't put drugs into your body" one either. Adults should have the ability to decide for themselves what they will and will not do to themselves.

I don't think any of these drugs gives anyone an advantage. It just creates a crutch for you to be distracted with. A guy in my class was hopped up on amphetamines and would drink 4 energy drinks a day. He was an absolute disaster who never slept, but "couldn't study" without them. It did him more harm than good.

That said, everything you put into your body changes it. If you are an informed adult, I see no reason why you can't make these decisions on your own. Coffee and alcohol are perfectly legal substances that are addictive, mind altering, and can be performance enhancing. To make the statement "drugs are bad, don't use drugs" is to not understand them in any context.

Have you ever taken them yourself? If not, your opinion is really meaningless.

 

[CatFactorial]

Regardless of meaningfulness, I think he's got a point.

Those who complain about other people popping pills forget that they don't have to deal with the side effects/risk of dependency. Even though Adderall helps a lot with studying, my reasons for abstention have more to do with dependency than any academic/moral high ground.

 

[SoundofSilver]

OP, neither you or anyone else needs amphetamine to pass exams in med school (unless of course you actually have some type of attention deficit disorder).

Someone who takes adderall to study is just setting themselves up for problems in the long run (as many others in this thread have already stated).

Personally, I'll stick to my one or two cups of coffee in the morning.

 

[ucsfstudents]

Try adjusting your study schedule, work load, etc. Also, it is ok to accept that you won't get 100% on your exams. As long as you are passing your courses, I don't see a need for medications. It you didn't need ritalin et al. up until now, it is unlikely that you all of a sudden have a focus problem. Sometimes we have to adjust our expectations and give ourselves some slack. Using medications for every little deficiency is a slippery slope.

 

[danzman]

Have you ever taken them yourself? If not, your opinion is really meaningless.

Ive taken all of them.

I find the stimulants (amphetamines and methylphenidates) to be extremely distracting and again, a crutch that becomes a habit. None of them help you retain any information, none help you study more effectively, and all of them become something that you falsely assume you "need" to study effectively. Anything contrary to this is simply anecdotal. There have been tons of studies done on kids using methylphenidate none that I have ever seen could quantify any meaningful gain in cognition, memory, or intellect. They are behavior modifiers that let people sit still in classrooms. I will openly acknowledge that they have an important role in the management of ADHD (etc'), but only as behavior modifiers. I also think that probably less than 3% of US medical students are true ADHD/ADA patients and thus only a small portion of users actually gain any true benefit from them.

Modafinil and its analogues are interesting drugs that could have some therapeutic uses, but again not as a nootrope. I find that they are technically able to suppress the need for sleep for a few hours, but do nothing for the ability to learn. I think they could be used for sleep disorders and are great for coming off of a night shift but are not nearly as effective as advertised. Sleep is, for some reason, important. Avoiding it does nothing beneficial.

But none of this really matters because if you are an informed adult you should be able to use any and all of these as you see fit, just like alcohol and caffeine. There are simply no differences between them. They are chemicals that react in your body to produce a desired effect. Im all for the use of these drugs by medical students because not only do I not think they really benefit them, I also feel that if something really did help them study, they should use it. Who am I to tell someone that they shouldn't use adderall if they really think it will help them, even if I know differently. This all goes back to the argument that all drugs should be made legal to use (obviously minor exceptions can be made for things like antibiotics which I do feel should be regulated even stronger). Addiction is a complex biological and social problem. People who become addicts are going to become addicts no matter what.

 

[BushidoBrown]

If you got to this point without needing amphetamines, you probably don't have a legitimate attention deficit disorder

 

[thepoopologist]

Cocaine

 

[sanityonleave]

I feel very strongly about the adderall issue. I stand strongly that there should be some sort of way for the schools to crack down on this. Its academic steroids. It is an unfair advantage. Also part of medical school isnt just learning the facts. Its learning the work ethic and discipline that when you get woken up at 3 in the morning 5 10 15 20 years down the line you can walk into that room and listen to a patient diagnose prescribe a medicine/run a code/do a surgery that you have done hundreds of times before and be focused while doing it. Cutting corners with stimulants doesnt build that character and focus. You will have a choice: learn it sometime down the road, continue taking the substance, or let the patients suffer. As for "legal prescriptions"-everyone knows who the vending machines for adderall are. A lot of the stuff is just a questionnaire "oh yeah I lose focus in lecture". If you didnt need adderall to get into medical school you dont need it now.


They did med school for years and years without adderall it shouldnt be commonplace now.

This. It's ridiculous -- there have been >10 students in my class who have a diagnosis of "ADD" since they started medical school so they could get speed to help them study. News flash: if you made it to medical school unmedicated, you don't have ADD that needs to be medicated. Wanting to be AOA != a symptom that should be medicated, though that's exactly what motivated kids in my class to go get their "ADD" diagnosis.

As far as those who say it's not performance enhancing -- you clearly don't have a lot of experience on that front. It's an amazing performance enhancer.** I guarantee that almost anyone on this board would see their average go up if they started taking one of these meds. My family doc flat-out told me he'd be willing to prescribe me Ritalin (he's been convinced I've had "ADD" for years) if I wanted to help me study for medical school.

I didn't take him up on his offer and I don't take it for the same reason I judge those that do: it's cheating. It's literally no different than hiding a review sheet in the bathroom or sneaking one into an exam.*

*--as a caveat, this excludes the very, very small fraction of people who truly have a disorder that prevents them from functioning on a normal, day-to-day basis and are medicated for that reason. Not being in the top 10% of your class is not ****ing ADD.
**--caveat #2: before I get called out for being a hypocrite, I have only been involved recreationally -- never to study, for the reasons I mention above.

 

[djmcheme]

I have always loved the people who reccomend yoga and exercise over medicine. Go open up a holistic practice and peddle your energy water, yoga bs there.

Depression - yoga and exercise
Anxiety - yoga and exercise
ADD/ADHD - yoga and exercise

I guess we don't need a psychiatric specialty..just a yoga instructor and calm music cures all.

 

[cetac]

This. It's ridiculous -- there have been >10 students in my class who have a diagnosis of "ADD" since they started medical school so they could get speed to help them study. News flash: if you made it to medical school unmedicated, you don't have ADD that needs to be medicated. Wanting to be AOA != a symptom that should be medicated, though that's exactly what motivated kids in my class to go get their "ADD" diagnosis.

As far as those who say it's not performance enhancing -- you clearly don't have a lot of experience on that front. It's an amazing performance enhancer.** I guarantee that almost anyone on this board would see their average go up if they started taking one of these meds. My family doc flat-out told me he'd be willing to prescribe me Ritalin (he's been convinced I've had "ADD" for years) if I wanted to help me study for medical school.

I didn't take him up on his offer and I don't take it for the same reason I judge those that do: it's cheating. It's literally no different than hiding a review sheet in the bathroom or sneaking one into an exam.*

*--as a caveat, this excludes the very, very small fraction of people who truly have a disorder that prevents them from functioning on a normal, day-to-day basis and are medicated for that reason. Not being in the top 10% of your class is not ****ing ADD.
**--caveat #2: before I get called out for being a hypocrite, I have only been involved recreationally -- never to study, for the reasons I mention above.

With respect to the emphasis I added in the quote, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to the reality that, just like most non-psychiatric illnesses, psychiatric illnesses fall on a spectrum. Black and white does not exist, and so it's very much a possibility that a student might manifest attention deficit when his/her workload is quadrupled (or more) transitioning from undergrad to medical school. Focusing for 1-2 hours a night is a very different beast from focusing 6+ hours/night.

That being said, as medical students I think none of us have the expertise to discern who needs medication and who doesn't. The knowledge of who should be prescribed these medications informs the ethical debate surrounding their prescription; without it the ethical debate is meaningless.

 

[shadowfox87]

View attachment Aderall meme.jpg

 

[cetac]

View attachment 17851

Dude is beyond the help of psychiatric drugs if he thinks smoking Aderall is going to help him pass the test...

 

[CaptainSSO]

I have always loved the people who reccomend yoga and exercise over medicine. Go open up a holistic practice and peddle your energy water, yoga bs there.

Depression - yoga and exercise
Anxiety - yoga and exercise
ADD/ADHD - yoga and exercise

I guess we don't need a psychiatric specialty..just a yoga instructor and calm music cures all.

Actually, it works. If you have ever experienced bad anxiety, you would know how bad it sucks, and how well exercise works. Or, you can pump people full of benzodiazepines and reap all their lovely benefits. ADD? Give them speed!! You can never go wrong with speed. Medicine doesn't have to involve pills. In fact, certain prescriptions should be a last resort, due to a little phenomenon called side effects.

 

[1Life]

Prescription should be after diagnosis...not the other way around where students are fishing for the specific drug by trying to look for the signs and symptoms. (instant gratification is the name of the game and rationalization helps us convince ourselves we "need" it)

 

[shadowfox87]

Actually, it works. If you have ever experienced bad anxiety, you would know how bad it sucks, and how well exercise works. Or, you can pump people full of benzodiazepines and reap all their lovely benefits. ADD? Give them speed!! You can never go wrong with speed. Medicine doesn't have to involve pills. In fact, certain prescriptions should be a last resort, due to a little phenomenon called side effects.

👍 Contradictory to what most people think, things like yoga and exercise are sometimes the best medicine.

 

[Masticate3Xaday]

If you got to this point without needing amphetamines, you probably don't have a legitimate attention deficit disorder

Oh I absolutely know I don't have an attention deficit disorder. There's simply a lot of other med students that use aderall to study and there definitely feels like there is pressure to take it as well to improve your chances of trying to keep up with them. Granted some people use it for legitimate reasons, but a lot of people use it just as a performance enhancer.

I definitely don't think I'll use it though. I'm passing my courses, just not 'acing them' like a lot of the other gunners. Meh whatever.


over 1000 views and only 25 replies. I bet there are a decent amount of people that use drug enhancers to help study/pass tests (without prescription), but they don't want to admit it.

 

[owlegrad]

Have you ever taken them yourself? If not, your opinion is really meaningless.

I don't understand this train of thought. I can only have an opinion on substance abuse if I myself have abused substances?

 

[High Roller]

If you got to this point without needing amphetamines, you probably don't have a legitimate attention deficit disorder

Well Said. Lots of med students seem to think they have some sort of ADD if they can't study for 4+ hours straight. Sounds pretty human to me.

And for sure Aderall gives you an edge in studying when you have to sit and cram as much as you do in med school. Even if you're not the least bit ADD. Don't believe me? Try it (ok...don't really just go do that!).

But honestly, I definitely believe that anyone who is capable of getting into medical school without aderall can succeed in med school without it. It may not be cheating if you use it to study, but its kinda cheating yourself out of setting up a sustainable lifestyle in medicine. Interesting debate though...

 

[poorracerkid]

Nah, you don't need it. You will be able to put in 12+ hour days of studying with enough pressure on you aka Step 1 🙂

 

[High Roller]

This. It's ridiculous -- there have been >10 students in my class who have a diagnosis of "ADD" since they started medical school so they could get speed to help them study. News flash: if you made it to medical school unmedicated, you don't have ADD that needs to be medicated. Wanting to be AOA != a symptom that should be medicated, though that's exactly what motivated kids in my class to go get their "ADD" diagnosis.

As far as those who say it's not performance enhancing -- you clearly don't have a lot of experience on that front. It's an amazing performance enhancer.** I guarantee that almost anyone on this board would see their average go up if they started taking one of these meds. My family doc flat-out told me he'd be willing to prescribe me Ritalin (he's been convinced I've had "ADD" for years) if I wanted to help me study for medical school.

I didn't take him up on his offer and I don't take it for the same reason I judge those that do: it's cheating. It's literally no different than hiding a review sheet in the bathroom or sneaking one into an exam.*

*--as a caveat, this excludes the very, very small fraction of people who truly have a disorder that prevents them from functioning on a normal, day-to-day basis and are medicated for that reason. Not being in the top 10% of your class is not ****ing ADD.
**--caveat #2: before I get called out for being a hypocrite, I have only been involved recreationally -- never to study, for the reasons I mention above.

I totally agree with you that it gives students an advantage, but I think its a big stretch to call it cheating. Is coffee cheating? Are energy drinks cheating?

I think its just unhealthy. If people choose to use amphetamines to do better in class, I think its more their loss. We don't need more robots in med school. And I'd personally rather do a little worse in classes knowing I'm taking care of myself and setting up my study habits to be sustainable.

 

[Masticate3Xaday]

What's difference between aderall use and roids in baseball?

Players who take 'roids made a 'personal choice' and are only harming themselves right?

In order to get multimillion dollar pay days and win, players who don't want to take roids are now pressured to take roids in order to be able to compete with the players that do.


Likewise, students that don't really want to use aderall feel pressure to use aderall to compete with the students that do, especially for things like Step 1, when a good grade there can have a huge impact on your choice of residency.

 

[High Roller]

What's difference between aderall use and roids in baseball?

Players who take 'roids made a 'personal choice' and are only harming themselves right?

In order to get multimillion dollar pay days and win, players who don't want to take roids are now pressured to take roids in order to be able to compete with the players that do.


Likewise, students that don't really want to use aderall feel pressure to use aderall to compete with the students that do, especially for things like Step 1, when a good grade there can have a huge impact on your choice of residency.

Steroid use is banned in baseball. When they start drug testing med students before step 1 I'll buy that analogy.

If you value grades and studying like a machine over living a balanced and happy life, then buy into the pressure. I still say its a false line in the sand to go so far as to call it 'cheating'.

 

[medigull]

nm

 

[Ischiowhat]

I heard if you take it with a bunch of alka-seltzer it's a lot more potent.

 

[lbd03]

With respect to the emphasis I added in the quote, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to the reality that, just like most non-psychiatric illnesses, psychiatric illnesses fall on a spectrum. Black and white does not exist, and so it's very much a possibility that a student might manifest attention deficit when his/her workload is quadrupled (or more) transitioning from undergrad to medical school. Focusing for 1-2 hours a night is a very different beast from focusing 6+ hours/night.

That being said, as medical students I think none of us have the expertise to discern who needs medication and who doesn't. The knowledge of who should be prescribed these medications informs the ethical debate surrounding their prescription; without it the ethical debate is meaningless.

I totally agree with this. I'd like to throw in the perspective of someone who was actually diagnosed with ADD in medical school.

I had undiagnosed ADD as a child. A few of my teachers brought it up over the years starting in elementary school, and by high school I'd read the diagnostic criteria and decided I had it, however the work load was always easy enough that I could compensate. There was no point in treating an A student just because it bothered the teachers that I didn't pay attention and still knew the answers to their questions so I never saw a doctor. Again in college when the workload increased I thought about seeing someone, but I found new ways to deal and did well. I had a feeling that a psychiatrist would prescribe some sort of stimulant but wasn't willing to deal with the side effects when I was already getting the grades I needed to get into med school. Med school was an entirely different story. As has been mentioned, there's a huge difference between being in undergrad and getting away with 2 hours of pseudo-studying and reasoning your way thru a test, and memorizing the vast amount of material required in med school. I did ok in my classes first year but always seemed to be working twice as hard as other people to retain the same information. I realize that everyone occasionally reads a page and forgets what they read, but this was to the point of reading a page 5 times and not having a clue what was on it. It was a daily occurrence that would literally frustrate me to tears. I told my doctor that I couldn't remember anything and she sent me to a psychiatrist. I now take very low doses of Ritalin as infrequently as possible, but it has made a huge difference for me. I still do not study for 8 hours straight, but I'm now able to read for 2 hours like everyone else. I still don't love studying, but I can do it without being totally distressed.

I can definitely relate to people's frustration with classmates using stimulants for an academic advantage, but from experience I can say that for those who legitimately have ADD and use stimulants appropriately it's not an advantage, but an even playing field.

Many mental illnesses seem to come out in medical school. I have classmates who were never depressed and now take antidepressants. Others were never diagnosed with anxiety and now take anxiolytics. It doesn't make their problems any less real or less worthy of treatment, they just didn't come out until stressful times when coping mechanisms tend to break down. The psychiatrist I saw commented that the people who make it to med school tend to be highly intelligent and are often able to compensate for their ADD, consequently going undiagnosed until the workload reaches it's max.

I realize that I am probably the exception, not the rule, but saying that no one is given a legitimate ADD diagnosis in medical school is a broad generalization that you just can't make without knowing the individual.

 

[lbd03]

it's cheating. It's literally no different than hiding a review sheet in the bathroom or sneaking one into an exam.*

I'll bite on this too. It's entirely different from hiding a review sheet in the bathroom or sneaking one into an exam. While we all focus on grades, we're really in medical school to LEARN MEDICINE. Needing a review sheet means that you haven't learned the information as well as you would like. I can honestly say that since I was diagnosed I am learning far more than I was before and my retention is better. I'm not sure if the same can be said for those who take too much and stay up all night cramming, but when I graduate I will have a better knowledge base because I was able to study effectively with stimulants. Review sheets get you out of learning the material, stimulants have the potential to help you learn it.