Why are community college credits looked down on?

[johnfree7]

At my CC, not only electives but several core science classes were actually more difficult and I learned more than at the university I attended. The class size was smaller (18 vs 400), and a professor with a PhD taught everything (lab included), he personally critiqued my work, kept generous office hours and was just a fantastic educator whereas one of my university professors didn't explain things well, (although he was apparently a widely respected researcher with published work) and a TA taught our labs/graded everything- I basically just learned from reading the textbook.

My question is why admissions committees continue to have a "hard limit" on CC credits or look down on core science classes taken at them? I went to a CC because of small class size and affordability ($400 vs $4000). I'm frustrated admissions committees continue to perceive CCs like they're a notch below 4 year universities or inferior when many of them with good reputations offer just as good, if not better education than universities- especially in the "core science" weed out courses with small class size and great teachers

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Your n=1. It is assumed that a course at a CC will be less rigorous because most of them are. That isn't always the case, of course.

And btw, a weed out course where you are more likely to get a good grade because the professor can give you individual attention is seen as easier than a course where getting that A requires significant self study. Because it is. Personally, I like smaller classes. But I also see where they're coming from.

 

[johnfree7]

And btw, a weed out course where you are more likely to get a good grade because the professor can give you individual attention is seen as easier than a course where getting that A requires significant self study. Because it is. Personally, I like smaller classes. But I also see where they're coming from.

He wasn't holding my hand at the CC (class averages were 60-70% on exams), he just explained things way better than the TA/university professor, actually presided over the labs and taught/graded everything vs a TA doing half the work at university. I came away with a better understanding of the material over reading the text alone. I just think typical CC reputation as "too easy" is unwarranted.

 

[LizzyM]

Adcoms sometimes view community college as "easier" because admission standards are lower and the curve, therefore, can be very generous. While you were fortunate to have good experiences regarding instructors, class size and the like, in some cases the courses are taught by adjunct professors who have weak credentials (MS or ABD -- all but dissertation). The thought is that if you are compared with a pool of weak students, your "A" may be less strong than an "A" earned at a school with very high admission standards. Of course, with grade inflation, it is hard to assess grades from various schools as having any meaning.

Adcoms also see community college in the summer by someone who is already attending a competitive undergrad institution (Cornell, Brown, etc) to be a way out of taking a weed-out class at the home institution during the academic year. Is a student with a GPA of 3.88 with all courses taken at the home institution academically stronger than a student from the same school with the same GPA but with 8 units of organic chemistry or physics taken in the summer at a community college? Some medical schools would favor the former over the latter.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

He wasn't holding my hand at the CC (class averages were 60-70% on exams), he just explained things way better than the TA or university professor, taught the labs (taught/graded everything), and I came away with a better understanding of the material over reading the text alone. I just think typcial CC reputation as "too easy" is unwarranted.

Again, your anecdotal experience is not a generalization of CC courses. I loved the one CC course I took because the prof was great (it was a difficult course too). But pretty much anyone can attend a CC, and so the rigor of the courses is mostly going to be lower with more generous grading. Your experience may be different, but that's how it's viewed.

 

[sullen-burger]

There just needs to be standardization. It's nothing personal.

There is also a spectrum of ecducators. Great and crappy teachers exist everywhere: technical, community, four year, grad, professional.

Congrats on PT school.

 

[miniman]

I can't say why, but I can say that it isn't fair. I like what the Dean of UNC med says, "Smart is easy. Being a genuinely nice person isn't." So, IMO GPA inflation is real, but let's look at the whole person, and not the GPA. I was a dual-enrolled student, my parents couldn't afford to help me with my school, and I just find it hard to think that because of my circumstances, I would be thought of as a less viable candidate for Medical School.

 

[LizzyM]

I can't say why, but I can say that it isn't fair. I like what the Dean of UNC med says, "Smart is easy. Being a genuinely nice person isn't." So, IMO GPA inflation is real, but let's look at the whole person, and not the GPA. I was a dual-enrolled student, my parents couldn't afford to help me with my school, and I just find it hard to think that because of my circumstances, I would be thought of as a less viable candidate for Medical School.

Dual enrolled, which I understand to be community college while concurrently enrolled in HS, is completely different and isn't considered the same way as the judgment heaped on students at top schools who wimp out and take "easy" community college classes to avoid taking a GPA hit by taking a weed-out class at their usual undergraduate school. If you can't see the difference, then your critical thinking skills need work.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I can't say why, but I can say that it isn't fair. I like what the Dean of UNC med says, "Smart is easy. Being a genuinely nice person isn't." So, IMO GPA inflation is real, but let's look at the whole person, and not the GPA. I was a dual-enrolled student, my parents couldn't afford to help me with my school, and I just find it hard to think that because of my circumstances, I would be thought of as a less viable candidate for Medical School.

1) GPA is important like it or not.
2) Dual enrollment isn't what we're talking about here.
3) Financial hardships are taken into account.

 

[Peach Newport]

I transferred from a CC to a 4 year and did a masters degree.

CC quite frankly was not just easy, it was a joke. Making straight As literally required me to skim the material once before class, and sometimes not even that. Now, a 4-year college, that was an actual challenge. My friends who did CC agreed.

Sorry, but if i were a med school Adcom, I too would absolutely ignore CC credits.

 

[johnfree7]

I transferred from a CC to a 4 year and did a masters degree.

CC quite frankly was not just easy, it was a joke. Making straight As literally required me to skim the material once before class, and sometimes not even that. Now, a 4-year college, that was an actual challenge. My friends who did CC agreed.

Sorry, but if i were a med school Adcom, I too would absolutely ignore CC credits.

How long ago was that? Your subjective experience is completely different than mine, and isn't any more valid. I didn't go to a CC to get an "easy A", I toured the school beforehand, liked the small class size, and it was actually reasonable to work a part-time job and pay for classes (versus sky-high loans at my University). I wouldn't retroactively replace my CC credits with University credits if I could, because I definitely got my money's worth and appreciate time spent there.

 

[sullen-burger]

How long ago was that? Your subjective experience is completely different than mine, and isn't any more valid. I didn't go to a CC to get an "easy A", I toured the school beforehand, liked the small class size, and it was actually reasonable to work a part-time job and pay for classes (versus sky-high loans at my University). I wouldn't retroactively replace my CC credits with university credits if I could, because I definitely got my money's worth and appreciate time spent there.

Friendly tip for you fam: Don't post on SDN with the intent to validate personal choices, because everyone here is a critic.

 

[miniman]

1) GPA is important like it or not.
2) Dual enrollment isn't what we're talking about here.
3) Financial hardships are taken into account.

Yeah GPA is a vital factor in applications, I know the world doesn't revolve around what I think the ideas are. I know the reality of the situation. I agree hardships are taken into account. As for the Dual enrollment stuff, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to highjack your conversation. I thought we were just talking about generic CC credits, so I just put my two cents in.

 

[miniman]

How long ago was that? Your subjective experience is completely different than mine, and isn't any more valid. I didn't go to a CC to get an "easy A", I toured the school beforehand, liked the small class size, and it was actually reasonable to work a part-time job and pay for classes (versus sky-high loans at my University). I wouldn't retroactively replace my CC credits with University credits if I could, because I definitely got my money's worth and appreciate time spent there.

Yeah, I don't know about you, but some of my classes were tough. I mean like 3 hours minimum per class per day to study and get an A.... In my Bio class, I wrote a 10-page paper in 4 weeks... Yeah, so I don't know if University is much harder than that. I would hope not, but I think that it would not compare to my HS Biology classes (2 weeks to memorize all the arm, abdominal, leg and foot/hand muscles ( She gave us the facial muscles free on the test... how nice!). I did this while I did my College, and man did I like my college classes then...)

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah GPA is a vital factor in applications, I know the world doesn't revolve around what I think the ideas are. I know the reality of the situation. I agree hardships are taken into account. As for the Dual enrollment stuff, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to highjack your conversation. I thought we were just talking about generic CC credits, so I just put my two cents in.

You didn't high jack. Just pointing out that they are different.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

I'm someone else who also went to both and CC is easier. Sure there are some professors that are difficult but the average class at a university is tougher. Just like how an Ivy League school on average the classes are tougher than say your state public school. There might be one easy teacher at Harvard and a hard as hell professor at my state school but I'm not about to say Harvard is easier. Teachers at some CC aren't as qualified. A couple science classes I took the person only had their masters. And for some it's their first job until they go to university. They're getting their PhD while teaching at the CC. This isn't the case with all the teachers but you wouldn't find this at the university level. CC also panders to their student population from what I've seen. Anyone can get in and sign up for the classes. So they're not going to make it as tough as a university. Taking classes at both, university has been more difficult. I'm still making good grades but I've had to work harder at my university. Did you go to a competitive university? I'm surprised you're saying it's easier. But like I said on average University level is more difficult. It's shouldn't be a problem though. As long as you take at least half the pre reqs at university and have about the same GPA or higher then you're fine.

 

[Geo16]

The courses from my CC are rejected by Keck and Western U. (It used to be only USC's Pharmacy school, but Keck adapted that policy)
Because in the past, a lot of students who went to our CC got into Western U Osteo medical school and USC's Pharmacy schools. They all got A's in pre-reqs but many of them flunked at Western U and USC's Pharmacy.
But no one tells the student about this information, I just heard it from my Chem professor.
There is a thing like this.

 

[BombsAway]

My CC had (mostly) better professors, more rigorous expectations, tougher grading, and overall higher quality of education than the 4 year I'm about to finish up at. Every school is different, but adcoms don't have time to sort that out, so they go by perception. Life isn't fair. When you're on the admissions committee one day, you can be the change you want to see in the world. Until then, accept the things you cannot change, etc.

 

[Biochemistry69]

Courses at my CC (where I did my first two years) were the same difficulty as my current university, if not slightly harder. Granted, I also took full advantage of my time at CC (read all the textbooks, rewrote my notes, etc.) There were no curves like there are at my university.

I think a lot of people underestimate CC's. I took my general chemistry two at my CC before transferring. We had a lot of university students who came to my CC for my class with expectations of an easy A. Most of them skimmed by with a C. I remember speaking to them and them telling me how ridiculous it is to have to read the textbook, and that you could ace your science courses at university barely coming to class.

 

[Goro]

At my CC, not only electives but several core science classes were actually more difficult and I learned more than at the university I attended. The class size was smaller (18 vs 400), and a professor with a PhD taught everything (lab included), he personally critiqued my work, kept generous office hours and was just a fantastic educator whereas one of my university professors didn't explain things well, (although he was apparently a widely respected researcher with published work) and a TA taught our labs/graded everything- I basically just learned from reading the textbook.

My question is why admissions committees continue to have a "hard limit" on CC credits or look down on core science classes taken at them? I went to a CC because of small class size and affordability ($400 vs $4000). I'm frustrated admissions committees continue to perceive CCs like they're a notch below 4 year universities or inferior when many of them with good reputations offer just as good, if not better education than universities- especially in the "core science" weed out courses with small class size and great teachers

The bias against CC classes is somewhat overblown on SDN. The pathway of CC -> 4 year school is fine; tons of people do this. However, if one is already at a 4 year school and then goes to take the pre-reqs at a CC, the impression is that they're trying to avoid their school's weeding classes.

Consult MSAR to see which schools will allow or disallow CC coursework. There's no rhyme nor reason to it either.

 

[Joemm426]

Hi,

I am preparing to transfer from a California community college to a university school. Students from my current school have transferred to Cornell, UC Berkeley, and UC Davis. These students often succeed at those four year schools. Some have claimed that some of the material at those four years is easier than some of the material at the community college. There have been many students from my community college who transfer to four year then attend medical school. I think some community colleges prepare students well while others do not. Thankfully, mine has.

 

[deleted838145]

I suppose the fact that CCs are not consistent in the quality or rigor of education across the board is what makes them unreliable sources of an applicant's academic ability?

 

[Joemm426]

I suppose the fact that CCs are not consistent in the quality or rigor of education across the board is what makes them unreliable sources of an applicant's academic ability?

Perhaps. I have heard that in parts of the U.S, CCs are seen more as a vocational school rather than school for transfer to four year. I have read on this website that going to a CC then succeeding in science classes at a four year and doing well on the MCAT is an effective component of getting into medical. That i what I plan to do.

 

[deleted838145]

Perhaps. I have heard that in parts of the U.S, CCs are seen more as a vocational school rather than school for transfer to four year. I have read on this website that going to a CC then succeeding in science classes at a four year and doing well on the MCAT is an effective component of getting into medical. That i what I plan to do.

yeah, i think as long as you prove that your success at CC wasn't a fluke, med schools have no reason to reject you.

 

[Turkishking]

It's a great start for students that aren't academically sound or those who have financial difficulties.