Why are new DO schools a bad idea?

[Rbt118]

---

Members don't see this ad.

So, I posted a few threads on sdn a couple of months ago when i was going through the application process. Since then I continually check new threads because this seems to be an addiction I can't kick. Regardless, I've been very confused on why much of the sdn posters think opening new DO schools are/is a bad idea. In my honest opinion, I would have assumed the creation of new DO schools would just emphasize and propagate the osteopathic mentality throughout the general public (which is greatly needed). I'm thrilled to be attending pcom in august and proud of my accomplishments, but i do wish that the general public at least new what DO freakin stood for (philosophically and literally).
thanks for your time reading.

 

[jonb12997]

basically? there aren't enough AOA residency spots for all of us now, let alone adding new schools... that's basically the issue.

 

[medicine1]

So, I posted a few threads on sdn a couple of months ago when i was going through the application process. Since then I continually check new threads because this seems to be an addiction I can't kick. Regardless, I've been very confused on why much of the sdn posters think opening new DO schools are/is a bad idea. In my honest opinion, I would have assumed the creation of new DO schools would just emphasize and propagate the osteopathic mentality throughout the general public (which is greatly needed). I'm thrilled to be attending pcom in august and proud of my accomplishments, but i do wish that the general public at least new what DO freakin stood for (philosophically and literally).
thanks for your time reading.

Don't worry my friend. You will have opportunities in both AOA and ACGME programs. You are not limited to AOA spots only. Don't try to be mislead. The actual number of residency positions opening up each year is increasing. It will be a benefit for society to have more DOs in the near future. And with an increase in DOs, there will of course be more residency opportunities ahead.

 

[medicine1]

basically? there aren't enough AOA residency spots for all of us now, let alone adding new schools... that's basically the issue.

So DOs only go into AOA residency spots? I don't think so. We are not as limited as you might think. Also, I would like you to prove that all AOA spots are taken each year.

 

[jonb12997]

So DOs only go into AOA residency spots? I don't think so. We are not as limited as you might think. Also, I would like you to prove that all AOA spots are taken each year.

oh brother...

That's not what I ment... he asked what everyone was upset about and I told him what people say... I know very well that we can go to ACGME spots and I also know that AOA spots don't fill, I was just saying what the argument is... that's all... relax

 

[PJ1120]

Even though not all allopathic and AOA residency spots are filled each year, its no excuse to just start dumping out degrees. I think a school has to be able to provide graduate medical education for its students. Older DO medical programs tend to be better at this in my opinion. Just look at NYCOM and PCOM programs. THey have many. While newer ones have a lot less. The thing that worries ME, is that ppl will copy the trend of opening tons of schools without ever opening residency programs. Then that is a HUGE problem. All in all AOA needs to be twice as aggressive in GME than in UGME in my opinion. 👍

 

[fullefect1]

Not that money is a to big of a factor since pretty much all doctor make over 100 thousand.... but, lets assume that 10-20 more schools were to open, would this effect the salary of many primary care physicians?

 

[Slippery Pete]

Why are new DO schools a bad idea?

'cuz more $hitty, unqualified applicants get to become doctors 👎

 

[scienceguy]

'cuz more $hitty, unqualified applicants get to become doctors 👎

Throwing down the DO profession
What an AS#%$LE

 

[medicine1]

'cuz more $hitty, unqualified applicants get to become doctors 👎

I would like to see what credentials you have Slippery Pete. If a DO student and an MD student both take the USMLE and pass with the same scores, how does that factor into 'more $hitty' applicants? I am sure you are one $hitty kid.

 

[docbill]

I would like to see what credentials you have Slippery Pete. If a DO student and an MD student both take the USMLE and pass with the same scores, how does that factor into 'more $hitty' applicants? I am sure you are one $hitty kid.

Why do you guys let him get a rise out of you.

He has posted similar stuff before. Putting down DOs and OMS. So don't stup down to his level.

Just let him say what he wishes and ignore his post.

 

[candycane]

I think that the energy and money that goes into opening a new DO school aught to be used to improve AOA residency programs so that more DO student will apply to them as opposed to going to AMA to get a better education.

 

[unk_fxn]

Alan Greenspan said it best:

"Irrational Exuberance"

Any organization that expands too fast puts itself at risk of devaluing its assets if the eventual demand for products and services does not meet the supply that has been generated at the cost which it is available.

There are more GME slots in the US than our DO and MD programs can fill, and there is a projected shortfall in the US physician workforce. This is not the problem. As more DO graduates enter GME, and immigration restrictions increase, IMG's will be displaced by DO's. DO's seeking entry into competitive and/or non-primary care fields will face increased competition for both the AOA and ACGME programs - the AOA especially but the ACGME as well is not in a position to rapidly expand the number of specialty residencies available. DO graduates will become more limited to less competative residency positions.

At the same time we have devalued our degree (you are less likely to get a competative residency slot because there are more people applying), we have increased the supply. The current healthcare climate in this nation (medicare cuts, PLI issues, increased regulatory burden, etc.) may also tend to make medicine a less desirable career choice for top students. So while you are increasing the supply of the product offered, your actions and external forces are decreasing the desire for that product. Applicant quality can only go down as a result, and this in turn further de-values osteopathic education.

So, while it is reasonable and I believe good to expand the number of positions and schools offering osteopathic education, I hope I have made a rational case for why it is in the interest of osteopathic students and physicians to do this only with extreme care and caution.

 

[Docgeorge]

Well said unk_FXN!

 

[deleted6669]

how about a new DO school in a state that doesn't already have one....say oregon or washington 🙂
the northwest track at western is a good idea....it would be an even better idea if they actually had some clinical sites.......they may have developed some recently but my emails to them asking for a list of rotation sites in the northwest mysteriously never get answered....we need an actual school here folks....somebody get on it, ok?

 

[dr.z]

how about a new DO school in a state that doesn't already have one....say oregon or washington 🙂
the northwest track at western is a good idea....it would be an even better idea if they actually had some clinical sites.......they may have developed some recently but my emails to them asking for a list of rotation sites in the northwest mysteriously never get answered....we need an actual school here folks....somebody get on it, ok?

There will be one opening up in Washington in few years.

 

[OzDDS]

Even though not all allopathic and AOA residency spots are filled each year, its no excuse to just start dumping out degrees. I think a school has to be able to provide graduate medical education for its students. Older DO medical programs tend to be better at this in my opinion. Just look at NYCOM and PCOM programs. THey have many. While newer ones have a lot less. The thing that worries ME, is that ppl will copy the trend of opening tons of schools without ever opening residency programs. Then that is a HUGE problem. All in all AOA needs to be twice as aggressive in GME than in UGME in my opinion. 👍

Exactly! 👍

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=193587&page=2

 

[Robz]

one of the things that also needs to be considered is that not only are the DO schools opening at an alarming rate but also that the allopathic school are looking at a 15% increase in thier classes as well. At some point there are not going to be enough residencies for the applicants....or just IM/FM ones with little to no expansion of speciality residencies

 

[jkhamlin]

one of the things that also needs to be considered is that not only are the DO schools opening at an alarming rate but also that the allopathic school are looking at a 15% increase in thier classes as well. At some point there are not going to be enough residencies for the applicants....or just IM/FM ones with little to no expansion of speciality residencies

Is it impossible to open new residency slots to match the increases in graduates (assuming that all residency spots are being filled in the first place)?

 

[BMW19]

Do you really believe that having like 21 schools is a lot? You consider that an alarming rate. Do you realize that there are hundreds of Allo schools? We are a very small piece of the pie. I hardly think that 3 or 4 more DO schools can really hurt more than help. Sounds like the sky is falling to me. Think of how many law schools there are, but I don't see any starving lawyers (at least not the ones I interact with)

Bmw-

one of the things that also needs to be considered is that not only are the DO schools opening at an alarming rate but also that the allopathic school are looking at a 15% increase in thier classes as well. At some point there are not going to be enough residencies for the applicants....or just IM/FM ones with little to no expansion of speciality residencies

 

[deleted6669]

There will be one opening up in Washington in few years.

details.....is this actually in the planning stages or just a concept at this point? do you know what part of the state it would be located in? I would hope southern wa as seattle already has u.wa and probably has all the rotation sites there locked up tight. a school in olympia or vancouver, wa would fill a huge need in this area.....

 

[dr.z]

details.....is this actually in the planning stages or just a concept at this point? do you know what part of the state it would be located in? I would hope southern wa as seattle already has u.wa and probably has all the rotation sites there locked up tight. a school in olympia or vancouver, wa would fill a huge need in this area.....

You should do a search or scroll down couple threads in this forum. In case you can't find it here it is: (Thread title is new do school in washington state ) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=193443

 

[newyorkcougar]

The new schools are a fabulous contribution to our profession. The field can never grow without greater numbers of new DOs entering the American healthcare system. Larger numbers of DOs will mean greater public visiblity and awareness. We will be bale to make an impact on the growing deficit of physicians. I am glad to see the profession growing!

 

[jkhamlin]

Do you really believe that having like 21 schools is a lot? You consider that an alarming rate. Do you realize that there are hundreds of Allo schools? We are a very small piece of the pie. I hardly think that 3 or 4 more DO schools can really hurt more than help. Sounds like the sky is falling to me. Think of how many law schools there are, but I don't see any starving lawyers (at least not the ones I interact with)

Bmw-

The lawyer phenomenon is different; lawyers need lots of other lawyers. It goes like this:
If you put one lawyer in a town, he'll starve; if you put two lawyers in a town, both will thrive.
I hope that clears some of this up. 😀

 

[BMW19]

And the shortage of Physicians is not a problem? Don't FP/IM docs need other docs to refer to? Uro, Neuro, GYN, Surgeons? All part of the puzzle. There is a coming shortage as everyone who reads the paper can see. I know everyone is going to say there is only a shortage of FP docs in rural areas but this is not entirely true.

As Docs and premeds realize that managed care and decreasing reimbursement are making medicine a lot less lucrative they will join all of their friends in law school and getting their MBA's. I think the more DO schools the better. We can start to make a dent in the screwed up healthcare system that is all about $$$$$$. Just my 2 cents.

BMW-

The lawyer phenomenon is different; lawyers need lots of other lawyers. It goes like this:
If you put one lawyer in a town, he'll starve; if you put two lawyers in a town, both will thrive.
I hope that clears some of this up. 😀

 

[deleted6669]

You should do a search or scroll down couple threads in this forum. In case you can't find it here it is: (Thread title is new do school in washington state ) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=193443

Thanks!

 

[jkhamlin]

And the shortage of Physicians is not a problem? Don't FP/IM docs need other docs to refer to? Uro, Neuro, GYN, Surgeons? All part of the puzzle. There is a coming shortage as everyone who reads the paper can see. I know everyone is going to say there is only a shortage of FP docs in rural areas but this is not entirely true.

As Docs and premeds realize that managed care and decreasing reimbursement are making medicine a lot less lucrative they will join all of their friends in law school and getting their MBA's. I think the more DO schools the better. We can start to make a dent in the screwed up healthcare system that is all about $$$$$$. Just my 2 cents.

BMW-

Actually I agree with you, you just need to lighten up a bit. You brought up lawyers; generally I hate lawyers, and I take every opportunity to make fun of them.

 

[Robz]

Is it impossible to open new residency slots to match the increases in graduates (assuming that all residency spots are being filled in the first place)?

As it stands right now I believe it is a set number that can only be changed by some government agency paying for more. As i believe its the NIH or another agency that pays for a lot of the residents in the hospitals and if there is no more money then the residents would work for free. There are a few programs now that are not fully funded.

 

[Robz]

Do you really believe that having like 21 schools is a lot? You consider that an alarming rate.

Yes, and yes. When you open schools without taking into consideration residencies I do think its at an alarming rate. I think having so many new DO's will get the word out and recognition will rise dramatically but I want them all to be high quality programs with good residencies

Do you realize that there are hundreds of Allo schools?

Yes, but they have an over abduance of residencies at the present time.

We are a very small piece of the pie. I hardly think that 3 or 4 more DO schools can really hurt more than help. Sounds like the sky is falling to me. Think of how many law schools there are, but I don't see any starving lawyers (at least not the ones I interact with)

Bmw-

I will welcome all my osteopathic brothers and sisters with open arms. We must make sure we do things with QUALITY. As for 3 or four new schools? That happened within this last year alone. with bradenton, henderson, and atlanta. I'm not saying the sky is falling but it is sometime to seriously consider.

 

[jkhamlin]

As it stands right now I believe it is a set number that can only be changed by some government agency paying for more. As i believe its the NIH or another agency that pays for a lot of the residents in the hospitals and if there is no more money then the residents would work for free. There are a few programs now that are not fully funded.

Somehow I doubt this. Not everything has to rely on government funding. Residents are CHEAP physician labor. The benefits that hospitals get from this far outweigh the costs. Any hospital that qualifies as a teaching hospital should be clamoring to get as many as possible.

 

[Idiopathic]

Do you really believe that having like 21 schools is a lot? You consider that an alarming rate. Do you realize that there are hundreds of Allo schools? We are a very small piece of the pie. I hardly think that 3 or 4 more DO schools can really hurt more than help. Sounds like the sky is falling to me. Think of how many law schools there are, but I don't see any starving lawyers (at least not the ones I interact with)

Bmw-

First of all, there arent "hundreds" of allo schools, there are, I believe, 126 with the new school. Second, how much are the DO schools that are opening charging for tuition? How large are the class sizes? How many have hospital affiliations that are solid enough to provide for their clinical rotations/graduating classes? I know that TCOM closed their hospital, UHS in KC has none, and other osteopathic affiliated hospitals are having trouble. Perhaps those people that truly care about the DO legacy and future need to be more concerned with the current situation, rather than trying to get more dollars, err...I mean, students. We have an honest-to-goodness AOA crisis as far as accredited and funded spots per new graduate (about 1 spot for every 2 graduates), MORE students than last year, and an executive group that wants to penalize us for not towing the party line. Current DO leaders understand that there is money to be made in pumping out primary care docs, especially when 600+ FP slots per year dont fill in the allopathic community and fewer and fewer DO grads are pursuing AOA opportunities. What they dont expect is that so many of us are interested in subspecialization, and are fully capable of competing with allopathic grads on all playing fields. Allopathic students are even starting to resent osteopathic students for being able to sign outside the match...this will only get worse.

 

[UHS05]

Actually, medicare funds most residents and therefore has a say in number of positions...

While they may be cheap labor, their slaries, benefits, malpractice insurance and other privileges do add up and hospitals have to take that into consideration.

And yes, there are many unfunded spots that get paid either nothing or very little...

Somehow I doubt this. Not everything has to rely on government funding. Residents are CHEAP physician labor. The benefits that hospitals get from this far outweigh the costs. Any hospital that qualifies as a teaching hospital should be clamoring to get as many as possible.

 

[UHS05]

Well said Robz and as a graduating osteopathic student, that was the point I was trying to make in the thread about the new Washington school. The AOA has abandoned resident education (even though lip service is abundant) in favor of generating dollars through new programs. I mean when DO schools enroll 250 students (and charge $30K+ to each of them mind you) and cannot even find decent rotation sites, let alone residencies, there is a definite drop in QUALITY of education.

I would love to have my profession more widely recognized, but not at the expense of quality.

I think our profession would be much better served if the schools we have at present are brought under more strict monitoring to ensure decent class sizes, set tuition caps, and to ensure that they are providing graduating students with every possible opportunity to excel in whatever field they may choose to pursue through quality clinical year and resident experiences. That will bring true recognition...not having a whole bunch of somewhat undertrained, debt-ridden, factory churned graduates...

Yes, and yes. When you open schools without taking into consideration residencies I do think its at an alarming rate. I think having so many new DO's will get the word out and recognition will rise dramatically but I want them all to be high quality programs with good residencies


Yes, but they have an over abduance of residencies at the present time.



I will welcome all my osteopathic brothers and sisters with open arms. We must make sure we do things with QUALITY. As for 3 or four new schools? That happened within this last year alone. with bradenton, henderson, and atlanta. I'm not saying the sky is falling but it is sometime to seriously consider.

 

[BMW19]

Agreed, most lawyers are pretty much sharks. Unless of course they are defending your a$$, then they are your best friend!!

BMW-

Actually I agree with you, you just need to lighten up a bit. You brought up lawyers; generally I hate lawyers, and I take every opportunity to make fun of them.

 

[OzDDS]

Yes, and yes. When you open schools without taking into consideration residencies I do think its at an alarming rate. I think having so many new DO's will get the word out and recognition will rise dramatically but I want them all to be high quality programs with good residencies


Yes, but they have an over abduance of residencies at the present time.



I will welcome all my osteopathic brothers and sisters with open arms. We must make sure we do things with QUALITY. As for 3 or four new schools? That happened within this last year alone. with bradenton, henderson, and atlanta. I'm not saying the sky is falling but it is sometime to seriously consider.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=193587&page=2 <-- read this

True!!

 

[medicine1]

The new schools are a fabulous contribution to our profession. The field can never grow without greater numbers of new DOs entering the American healthcare system. Larger numbers of DOs will mean greater public visiblity and awareness. We will be bale to make an impact on the growing deficit of physicians. I am glad to see the profession growing!

I definitely agree. Well said newyorkcougar!

 

[medicine1]

The lawyer phenomenon is different; lawyers need lots of other lawyers. It goes like this:
If you put one lawyer in a town, he'll starve; if you put two lawyers in a town, both will thrive.
I hope that clears some of this up. 😀

Perhaps you should re-evaluate your statements.

 

[medicine1]

Actually I agree with you, you just need to lighten up a bit. You brought up lawyers; generally I hate lawyers, and I take every opportunity to make fun of them.

🙄

 

[jkhamlin]

Agreed, most lawyers are pretty much sharks. Unless of course they are defending your a$$, then they are your best friend!!

BMW-

They are your best friend as long as you have lots and lots of money. 😀

 

[PJ1120]

Ok, all this talk has gotten me stirred. Who in the AOA can I write to, to tell them to get their a$$ in gear with GME and stop with the mindless UGME moneymaking bull. I mean WTF! UGME is unimportant without good GME. I know schools do open up more residencies yearly. But this is at a slow rate compared to growth in UGME. SO .. then ppl will say there is an overabundance of of primary care spots. And I say ok...ur being shortsighted. Cus after the babyboomers then the population actually curves the opposite way! So what then? I guess we shouldnt care about that because we'll all be 50-60 years old? So we just leave this stupid system to our kids?
I'm all about recognition for DOs and I think most MDs and even pre-MDs (other than the occasional on SDN) dont have a problem with us and just dont care. The bigger picture isnt that...does medical school want to follow in the footsteps of business schools? Where many graduates have no jobs? This is what's goin to happen in 30-40 yrs if this crazy expansion doesnt stop. Trust me. Just look at the population after baby boomers. AOA should seriously just concentrate a lot more on GME (primary care and specialties). They are ******ed in my eyes. And i'm a DO student!!! 😱

 

[OzDDS]

Ok, all this talk has gotten me stirred. Who in the AOA can I write to, to tell them to get their a$$ in gear with GME and stop with the mindless UGME moneymaking bull. I mean WTF! UGME is unimportant without good GME. I know schools do open up more residencies yearly. But this is at a slow rate compared to growth in UGME. SO .. then ppl will say there is an overabundance of of primary care spots. And I say ok...ur being shortsighted. Cus after the babyboomers then the population actually curves the opposite way! So what then? I guess we shouldnt care about that because we'll all be 50-60 years old? So we just leave this stupid system to our kids?
I'm all about recognition for DOs and I think most MDs and even pre-MDs (other than the occasional on SDN) dont have a problem with us and just dont care. The bigger picture isnt that...does medical school want to follow in the footsteps of business schools? Where many graduates have no jobs? This is what's goin to happen in 30-40 yrs if this crazy expansion doesnt stop. Trust me. Just look at the population after baby boomers. AOA should seriously just concentrate a lot more on GME (primary care and specialties). They are ******ed in my eyes. And i'm a DO student!!! 😱

👍

 

[hphan]

Ok, all this talk has gotten me stirred. Who in the AOA can I write to, to tell them to get their a$$ in gear with GME and stop with the mindless UGME moneymaking bull. I mean WTF! UGME is unimportant without good GME. I know schools do open up more residencies yearly. But this is at a slow rate compared to growth in UGME. SO .. then ppl will say there is an overabundance of of primary care spots. And I say ok...ur being shortsighted. Cus after the babyboomers then the population actually curves the opposite way! So what then? I guess we shouldnt care about that because we'll all be 50-60 years old? So we just leave this stupid system to our kids?
I'm all about recognition for DOs and I think most MDs and even pre-MDs (other than the occasional on SDN) dont have a problem with us and just dont care. The bigger picture isnt that...does medical school want to follow in the footsteps of business schools? Where many graduates have no jobs? This is what's goin to happen in 30-40 yrs if this crazy expansion doesnt stop. Trust me. Just look at the population after baby boomers. AOA should seriously just concentrate a lot more on GME (primary care and specialties). They are ******ed in my eyes. And i'm a DO student!!! 😱

wow, you're going to be a DO. 😕

 

[Robz]

Ok, all this talk has gotten me stirred. Who in the AOA can I write to, to tell them to get their a$$ in gear with GME and stop with the mindless UGME moneymaking bull. I mean WTF! UGME is unimportant without good GME. I know schools do open up more residencies yearly. But this is at a slow rate compared to growth in UGME. SO .. then ppl will say there is an overabundance of of primary care spots. And I say ok...ur being shortsighted. Cus after the babyboomers then the population actually curves the opposite way! So what then? I guess we shouldnt care about that because we'll all be 50-60 years old? So we just leave this stupid system to our kids?
I'm all about recognition for DOs and I think most MDs and even pre-MDs (other than the occasional on SDN) dont have a problem with us and just dont care. The bigger picture isnt that...does medical school want to follow in the footsteps of business schools? Where many graduates have no jobs? This is what's goin to happen in 30-40 yrs if this crazy expansion doesnt stop. Trust me. Just look at the population after baby boomers. AOA should seriously just concentrate a lot more on GME (primary care and specialties). They are ******ed in my eyes. And i'm a DO student!!! 😱

The AOA knows. It comes up in a lot of conversations. I have talked to the AOA leadership at a few conventions and some of their staff members as well. The thing they told me is that it is not part of the AOA as they deal with the DO's and the students mainly and not the starting of new schools. I know they are looking inot how to limit the schools or at least put requirements on what it takes to open new schools but it has to go through another agency (which I don't quite remember at the moment but its the accredidation on I think). Its a fustrating thing to make sure we have the quality in our new programs and residencies for those new DO's to go to.

 

[(nicedream)]

I mean when DO schools enroll 250 students (and charge $30K+ to each of them mind you) and cannot even find decent rotation sites, let alone residencies, there is a definite drop in QUALITY of education.

Try 150 students, 24k/yr, and 80+ rotation sites. If you want to find the schools you speak of, look at the pre-existing schools not the new ones.

 

[jkhamlin]

Actually, medicare funds most residents and therefore has a say in number of positions...

While they may be cheap labor, their slaries, benefits, malpractice insurance and other privileges do add up and hospitals have to take that into consideration.

And yes, there are many unfunded spots that get paid either nothing or very little...

Medicare does not fund residents. It is a health care welfare program. They do not get to dictate anything about residency programs.
The salaries are cheap, the benefits are really budgeted with the salaries; this is still cheap. I'm not sure about malpractice for residents. I'll bet it depends on the residency, but for the hospital's part it is a fixed expense, so it does not factor in. Other priveleges? Like what? You can bring up all kinds of trivial things here, the point is that they are cheap labor and the benefits outweigh the costs.

 

[Docgeorge]

Medicare does not fund residents. It is a health care welfare program. They do not get to dictate anything about residency programs.
The salaries are cheap, the benefits are really budgeted with the salaries; this is still cheap. I'm not sure about malpractice for residents. I'll bet it depends on the residency, but for the hospital's part it is a fixed expense, so it does not factor in. Other priveleges? Like what? You can bring up all kinds of trivial things here, the point is that they are cheap labor and the benefits outweigh the costs.

Dude you are soooo wrong!

 

[heech]

That dude really is soooooooo wrong.

Here's a link from the AAMC explaining Medicare's role in funding the vast majority of residency positions in this country.

http://www.aamc.org/advocacy/library/gme/gme0001.htm

The payments (which I understand are around $80k-$100k per residency spot) are for the resident's salaries, as well as compensation for other costs associated with training the resident. No medicare (or reduced medicare payments), no system for residency training as we know it.

And that's also part of the reason we might be struggling with residency issues. (I'm surprised this hasn't been talked about on this forum.) The allocation of residency spots have been *frozen* since 1996 thanks to federal government shananigans, meaning that there've been essentially no change for 10 years. That means all of the schools created since 1996, to date, hasn't had a single residency spot paid for by medicare.

As of July 1st of this year, there's going to be a very significant reallocation of residency spots based on proven need/ability to fill spots.

That means parts of the country growing in population (special priorities given for rural and small-city programs) should see a dramatic boost in residency programs next year. And I'm sure that means all the newer schools (especially in communities with large/growing populations) will be getting the funding to set up many, many more residency spots.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Medicare does not fund residents. It is a health care welfare program. They do not get to dictate anything about residency programs.
The salaries are cheap, the benefits are really budgeted with the salaries; this is still cheap. I'm not sure about malpractice for residents. I'll bet it depends on the residency, but for the hospital's part it is a fixed expense, so it does not factor in. Other priveleges? Like what? You can bring up all kinds of trivial things here, the point is that they are cheap labor and the benefits outweigh the costs.

They do.

👎

 

[Echinoidea]

This topic really belongs in the Osteopathic forum - not the Pre-DO forum. Not to knock on our applicants, but the learning curve for how things in the DO world operate is very steep and begins the first day of orientation. When I was a pre-med, I thought the idea of opening as many new schools as possible was a great idea - I mean, it just meant more slots and less competition for me. But now that my MS1 year is almost done, I've had a chance to absorb a little of the politics, innuendo, and sometimes lunacy that makes up the AOA.

In my opinion, the breakneck pace of new schools opening, and the severe lack of decent, quality osteopathic GME are two of the most serious issues facing osteopathic medicine today. I know to a pre-med, residency seems a very far off concern, but when you see the absolute "I don't give a $hit" attitude that people like Dr. Thomas (the president of the AOA) have on the matter, well, what can I say, it's infuriating.

Why are new schools a bad idea? Well, they are not necessarily a bad idea, but at the current pace that they are opening, without any kind of meaningful regulation by a governing body, we face a serious risk of thinning down the applicant pool, and just making it too damn easy to get into medical school. Now, I know all the tired old lines about looking past the numbers, etc, ect., but the bottom line is that admissions standards are there for a reason - medical school is damn hard. And personally, I'm afraid that as these new schools keep springing up, osteopathic medicine is going to become the DeVry of the medical world - and thats when the trouble will really begin.

You all should realize that at this point in time, after osteopathic medicine has fought so hard for autonomy and recognition from the allopathic world, that it's leaders have in essence abandoned half of the students to the mercy of the ACGME residencies. The truth is, if every allopathic residency decided to no longer accept DO's. we'd all be screwed. Now, thats not likely to happen, but it is troubling. And if these new schools drop the perception of our quality in the eyes of the allopathic world, we may be in for some rough roads.

 

[UHS05]

I would really suggest brushing up on how medical school and residency work...trust me (and the others who have posted about this)...I'm graduating in less than a month so I do believe I've spent a little time exploring this

🙂

Good luck with school and congratulations on your upcoming graduation 👍

Medicare does not fund residents. It is a health care welfare program. They do not get to dictate anything about residency programs.
The salaries are cheap, the benefits are really budgeted with the salaries; this is still cheap. I'm not sure about malpractice for residents. I'll bet it depends on the residency, but for the hospital's part it is a fixed expense, so it does not factor in. Other priveleges? Like what? You can bring up all kinds of trivial things here, the point is that they are cheap labor and the benefits outweigh the costs.