Why are so many of us against socialized healthcare?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
And, they're going to set the reimbursement rates through CMS, but get this...

Sec. 223(f)

(f) Limitations on Review- There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established under this section or under section 224.

That's right! You get what you get, and you have no recourse - judicial or otherwise - to say that it's unfair... not even through the U.S. court system!

THIS BILL STINKS!

-copro
 
Say NO to Socialism

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com, fox news, and SDN forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.


(not mine, credit goes to a greater man)
 
Then there's this...

Sec. 931(b)(1-4)

(b) Initial Quality Improvement Activities and Initiatives To Be Implemented- Until the Director of the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality has established initial priorities under section 931(b) of the Public Health Service Act, as added by subsection (a), the Director shall, for purposes of such section, prioritize the following:

(1) HEALTH CARE-ASSOCIATED INFECTIONS- Reducing health care-associated infections, including infections in nursing homes and outpatient settings.

(2) SURGERY- Increasing hospital and outpatient perioperative patient safety, including reducing surgical-site infections and surgical errors (such as wrong-site surgery and retained foreign bodies).

(3) EMERGENCY ROOM- Improving care in hospital emergency rooms, including through the use of principles of efficiency of design and delivery to improve patient flow.

(4) OBSTETRICS- Improving the provision of obstetrical and neonatal care, including the identification of interventions that are effective in reducing the risk of preterm and premature labor and the implementation of best practices for labor and delivery care.

FILE THIS UNDER F**KING "DUH"!

LIKE WE HAVEN'T BEEN TRYING TO TACKLE THESE PROBLEMS FOR YEARS! How the hell is getting the government more involved than it already is going to make the situation better? It's clear from the verbiage above that EVEN THEY ALREADY HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA HOW!

This BILL is a friggin' BOONDOGGLE!

-copro
 
Say NO to Socialism

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy.

Wrong, unless you still live in a state that has a monopoly. This was de-regulated under the Clinton administration, and you should have a choice of power suppliers who, in theory, would provide more competition and eventually lower prices. Of course, oligopolies are just as bad, if not worse, than monopolies... but that's fodder for a separate discussion.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

Which you pay for, out of your own hard-earned money, based on usage.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration.

The FCC, if anything, limits free speech on television by effectively censoring what can be played on "public" (i.e., non-private "premium" cable services). Fortunately, they have not been able to effectively censor what goes on the Internet, and thankfully we also have the First Amendment that protects fundamentally freedom of speech. Perhaps you should do some case review of how many times the FCC has been defending themselves in court, including recently.

NASA is mostly another government boondoggle, and there is an increasingly robust interest in private enterprise in space exploration that will hopefully prove to be more efficient and cost-effective than this government agency. Of course, right now NASA is essentially the only game in town. But, what you apparently don't know or realize is that private industry provides and pays for a large portion of those satellites - including the cost of putting them into space - that currently provide you with, among other things, the communication tools you now enjoy to post your garbage. Likewise, there are many other countries (France, Japan, Brazil, etc.) who have robust space programs that compete in the private sector far more than you're likely willing to acknowledge.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

Are you serious? You must have missed the recent deaths from food-borne infections secondary to lack of appropriate oversight and inspection of chicken processors, peanut production facilities, and rural growers.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school.

I won't comment on the problems with public school. Too numerous to even recount here.

Everything else you state, coupled with copious reports of a failing infrastructure (including a bridge collapse in Minnesota last summer), speaks to me more of government misappropriation and poor use of resources. In fact, where I used to live they even paved a perfectly good road not in need of paving to satisfy a high-tax base in lieu of fixing many more roads in the area more in dire need of repair.

The legal tender printed by the government is not backed by anything rather than that government's word (i.e., we're no longer on the "gold standard") and we've been printing more and more of it. Ever ask yourself why the U.S. dollar is struggling against the rest of the world's currency?

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

And, all of those people, day in and day out, who are victims of crimes and fires and other happenstances that are part of the human condition... should they blame this same government for not protecting them?

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com, fox news, and SDN forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Just because the government does some things right doesn't means it does everything right. Now, let's just hope that the FCC never gets involved in "managing" the Internet. I think we can at least agree on that, right?

-copro
 
Last edited:
Not too surprisingly, OP, an Obama supporter, thinks insurance CEO's and physicians make too much money. However, the alternatives are not cheap either. Healthcare Administrators are also making $300K/year (ask Michele Obama) and Np/CRNAs are pulling six figures as well.

Everybody will take a hit. Docs just need to make sure that they push the hit off on to others like CRNAs who moan about their short 15 min breaks or 1 hour lunches.
 
Nope, not kidding, not sleep deprived. Very well rested actually as I had the weekend off. I've never made more than 50K per year in my life. So 150K is a lot of money for me. But then again, maybe I'd have a problem if I was making 300k and that got cut down by 50%. But seriously, one would still be living a pretty decent life in my opinion.

Sorry dude, can't relate. Different perspectives.

No one would stop you from donating your excess salary. But many will resent you for advocating taking away their potential earned income.
 
I thought this was an interesting start on reading the bill for those who don't have time. The commentary did not seem as over the top as some have been.

The Health Care Bill: What HR 3200, ‘‘America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009," Says
John David Lewis
August 6, 2009
What does the bill, HR 3200, short-titled ‘‘America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009," actually say about major health care issues? I here pose a few questions in no particular order, citing relevant passages and offering a brief evaluation after each set of passages.
This bill is 1017 pages long. It is knee-deep in legalese and references to other federal regulations and laws. I have only touched pieces of the bill here. For instance, I have not considered the establishment of (1) "Health Choices Commissio0ner" (Section 141); (2) a "Health Insurance Exchange," (Section 201), basically a government run insurance scheme to coordinate all insurance activity; (3) a Public Health Insurance Option (Section 221); and similar provisions.
This is the evaluation of someone who is neither a physician nor a legal professional. I am citizen, concerned about this bill's effects on my freedom as an American. I would rather have used my time in other ways—but this is too important to ignore.
We may answer one question up front: How will the government will pay for all this? Higher taxes, more borrowing, printing money, cutting payments, or rationing services—there are no other options. We will all pay for this, enrolled in the government "option" or not.
(All bold type within the text of the bill is added for emphasis.)

1. 1. WILL THE PLAN RATION MEDICAL CARE?
This is what the bill says, pages 284-288, SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:
‘(ii) EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN READMISSIONS.—For purposes of clause (i), with respect to a hospital, excess readmissions shall not include readmissions for an applicable condition for which there are fewer than a minimum number (as determined by the Secretary) of discharges for such applicable condition for the applicable period and such hospital.
and, under "Definitions":
‘‘(A) APPLICABLE CONDITION.—The term ‘applicable condition' means, subject to subparagraph (B), a condition or procedure selected by the Secretary . . .
and:
‘‘(E) READMISSION.—The term ‘readmission' means, in the case of an individual who is discharged from an applicable hospital, the admission of the individual to the same or another applicable hospital within a time period specified by the Secretary from the date of such discharge.
and:
‘‘(6) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, section 1878, or otherwise of— . . .
‘‘(C) the measures of readmissions . . .
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. This section amends the Social Security Act
2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an "applicable [medical] condition."
3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital.
4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted.
5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up.
6. There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.
7. The plan also allows the government to prohibit hospitals from expanding without federal permission: page 317-318.

2. WILL THE PLAN PUNISH AMERICANS WHO TRY TO OPT OUT?
What the bill says, pages 167-168, section 401, TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE:
‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
(1) the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer. . . ."
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGE:
1. This section amends the Internal Revenue Code.
2. Anyone caught without acceptable coverage and not in the government plan will pay a special tax.
3. The IRS will be a major enforcement mechanism for the plan.
3. WHAT CONSTITUTES "ACCEPTABLE" COVERAGE?
Here is what the bill says, pages 26-30, SEC. 122, ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED:
(a) IN GENERAL.—In this division, the term ‘‘essential benefits package'' means health benefits coverage, consistent with standards adopted under section 124 to ensure the provision of quality health care and financial security . . .
(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:
(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician's or a health professional's delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .
(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .
(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. The bill defines "acceptable coverage" and leaves no room for choice in this regard.
2. By setting a minimum 70% actuarial value of benefits, the bill makes health plans in which individuals pay for routine services, but carry insurance only for catastrophic events, (such as Health Savings Accounts) illegal.

4. WILL THE PLAN DESTROY PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE?
Here is what it requires, for businesses with payrolls greater than $400,000 per year. (The bill uses "contribution" to refer to mandatory payments to the government plan.) Pages 149-150, SEC. 313, EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE
(a) IN GENERAL.—A contribution is made in accordance with this section with respect to an employee if such contribution is equal to an amount equal to 8 percent of the average wages paid by the employer during the period of enrollment (determined by taking into account all employees of the employer and in such manner as the Commissioner provides, including rules providing for the appropriate aggregation of related employers). Any such contribution—
(1) shall be paid to the Health Choices Commissioner for deposit into the Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund, and
(2) shall not be applied against the premium of the employee under the Exchange-participating health benefits plan in which the employee is enrolled.
(The bill then includes a sliding scale of payments for business with less than $400,000 in annual payroll.)
The Bill also reserves, for the government, the power to determine an acceptable benefits plan: page 24, SEC. 115. ENSURING ADEQUACY OF PROVIDER NETWORKS.
5 (a) IN GENERAL.—A qualified health benefits plan that uses a provider network for items and services shall meet such standards respecting provider networks as the Commissioner may establish to assure the adequacy of such networks in ensuring enrollee access to such items and services and transparency in the cost-sharing differentials between in-network coverage and out-of-network coverage.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. The bill does not prohibit a person from buying private insurance.
2. Small businesses—with say 8-10 employees—will either have to provide insurance to federal standards, or pay an 8% payroll tax. Business costs for health care are higher than this, especially considering administrative costs. Any competitive business that tries to stay with a private plan will face a payroll disadvantage against competitors who go with the government "option."
3. The pressure for business owners to terminate the private plans will be enormous.
4. With employers ending plans, millions of Americans will lose their private coverage, and fewer companies will offer it.
5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable.
6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government "option" will have no place else to go.

5. DOES THE PLAN TAX SUCCESSFUL AMERICANS MORE THAN OTHERS?
Here is what the bill says, pages 197-198, SEC. 441. SURCHARGE ON HIGH INCOME INDIVIDUALS
‘‘SEC. 59C. SURCHARGE ON HIGH INCOME INDIVIDUALS.
‘‘(a) GENERAL RULE.—In the case of a taxpayer other than a corporation, there is hereby imposed (in addition to any other tax imposed by this subtitle) a tax equal to—
‘‘(1) 1 percent of so much of the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds $350,000 but does not exceed $500,000,
‘‘(2) 1.5 percent of so much of the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds $500,000 but does not exceed $1,000,000, and
‘‘(3) 5.4 percent of so much of the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds $1,000,000.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGE:
1. This bill amends the Internal Revenue Code.
2. Tax surcharges are levied on those with the highest incomes.
3. The plan manipulates the tax code to redistribute their wealth.
4. Successful business owners will bear the highest cost of this plan.

6. DOES THE PLAN ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO SET FEES FOR SERVICES?
What it says, page 124, Sec. 223, PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES:
(d) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this subtitle shall be construed as limiting the Secretary's authority to correct for payments that are excessive or deficient, taking into account the provisions of section 221(a) and the amounts paid for similar health care providers and services under other Exchange-participating health benefits plans.
(e) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this subtitle shall be construed as affecting the authority of the Secretary to establish payment rates, including payments to provide for the more efficient delivery of services, such as the initiatives provided for under section 224.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
The government's authority to set payments is basically unlimited.
1. The official will decide what constitutes "excessive," "deficient," and "efficient" payments and services.

7. WILL THE PLAN INCREASE THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS TO SCRUTINIZE OUR PRIVATE AFFAIRS?
What it says, pages 195-196, SEC. 431. DISCLOSURES TO CARRY OUT HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE SUBSIDIES.
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary, upon written request from the Health Choices Commissioner or the head of a State-based health insurance exchange approved for operation under section 208 of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, shall disclose to officers and employees of the Health Choices Administration or such State-based health insurance exchange, as the case may be, return
information of any taxpayer whose income is relevant in determining any affordability credit described in subtitle C of title II of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009. Such return information shall be limited to—
‘‘(i) taxpayer identity information with respect to such taxpayer,
‘‘(ii) the filing status of such taxpayer,
‘‘(iii) the modified adjusted gross income of such taxpayer (as defined in section 59B(e)(5)),
‘‘(iv) the number of dependents of the taxpayer,
‘‘(v) such other information as is prescribed by the Secretary by regulation as might indicate whether the taxpayer is eligible for such affordability credits (and the amount thereof), and
‘‘(vi) the taxable year with respect to which the preceding information relates or, if applicable, the fact that such information is not available.
And, page 145, section 312, EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE:
(3) PROVISION OF INFORMATION.—The employer provides the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable, with such information as the Commissioner may require to ascertain compliance with the requirements of this section.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGE:
1. This section amends the Internal Revenue Code
2. The bill opens up income tax return information to federal officials.
3. Any stated "limits" to such information are circumvented by item (v), which allows federal officials to decide what information is needed.
4. Employers are required to report whatever information the government says it needs to enforce the plan.

8. DOES THE PLAN AUTOMATICALLY ENROLL AMERICANS IN THE GOVERNMENT PLAN?
What it says, page 102, Section 205, OUTREACH AND ENROLLMENT OF EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS IN EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN:
(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT OF MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS INTO MEDICAID.—The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which an individual who is described in section 202(d)(3) and has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid.
And, page 145, section 312:
(4) AUTOENROLLMENT OF EMPLOYEES.—The employer provides for autoenrollment of the employee in accordance with subsection (c).
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. Do nothing and you are in.
2. Employers are responsible for automatically enrolling people who still work.

9. DOES THE PLAN EXEMPT FEDERAL OFFICIALS FROM COURT REVIEW?
What it says, page 124, Section 223, PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES:
(f) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established under this section or under section 224.
And, page 256, SEC. 1123. PAYMENTS FOR EFFICIENT AREAS.
‘‘(C) LIMITATION ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, 1878, or otherwise, respecting—
‘‘(i) the identification of a county or other area under subparagraph (A); or
‘‘(ii) the assignment of a postal ZIP Code to a county or other area under subparagraph (B).
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. Sec. 1123 amends the Social Security Act, to allow the Secretary to identify areas of the country that underutilize the government's plan "based on per capita spending."
2. Parts of the plan are set above the review of the courts.
 
Then there's this...

Sec. 931(b)(1-4)



FILE THIS UNDER F**KING "DUH"!

LIKE WE HAVEN'T BEEN TRYING TO TACKLE THESE PROBLEMS FOR YEARS! How the hell is getting the government more involved than it already is going to make the situation better? It's clear from the verbiage above that EVEN THEY ALREADY HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA HOW!

This BILL is a friggin' BOONDOGGLE!

-copro

I'm just a lowly Unit Aide in an ER, but even I know most of the ER backlog is caused by people showing up, who don't have a true 'emergency'. For instance a 61 y.o. male who came in because they were loosing their hair, diagnosis he was going bald. People coming in for check ups and what not, that's probably what causes these backlogs. I can't imagine, how the government plans on stopping that from happening.

Just my $0.02
 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxna9SfmBgs[/YOUTUBE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxna9SfmBgs
Fake Doctor:
He's right we have the most outstanding health care on the globe, and that's evidenced by the fact that everybody comes here for our health care. (Whoop Whoop) We are the best at treating diseases; however, what, we're, we're deficient is that uh we are like so poor almost nonexistent in treating preventative care. um I know because I'm a general practitioner. We are a dying breed.um And it's it's also has to do with these outcomes we have poor outcomes and I don't understand why we a developing country developed countries are doing so much better than us it doesn't make any sense um how will this improved system um reward incentivize preventative care uh to improve these outcomes what will the impact be and how will it help me as a pcp thank you

Fake Congresswoman:
No thank you for coming out to my fake town hall meeting so we discuss fake health care reform. First I would like to commend you for being a fake doctor, especially a fake pcp. Most people would be want to be a fake neurosurgeon, or a fake cardiologist. Now I will address your fake concerns. Yes we are the best at treating diseases. (Whoop Whoop) But we are like so poor almost nonexistent in treating preventative care. There is no reason we as a developing nation should have uh, hold on let me look at my fake statistics, oh yes 500 million Americans with out health care. My solution to this is to create more fake doctors, namely DNPs. But how will you pay for this opponents may ask. Simple, I reply, we will tax the **** out of everyone until they are like so poor almost nonexistent. Thank you.
 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxna9SfmBgs[/YOUTUBE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxna9SfmBgs
Fake Doctor:
He's right we have the most outstanding health care on the globe, and that's evidenced by the fact that everybody comes here for our health care. (Whoop Whoop) We are the best at treating diseases; however, what, we're, we're deficient is that uh we are like so poor almost nonexistent in treating preventative care. um I know because I'm a general practitioner. We are a dying breed.um And it's it's also has to do with these outcomes we have poor outcomes and I don't understand why we a developing country developed countries are doing so much better than us it doesn't make any sense um how will this improved system um reward incentivize preventative care uh to improve these outcomes what will the impact be and how will it help me as a pcp thank you

Fake Congresswoman:
No thank you for coming out to my fake town hall meeting so we discuss fake health care reform. First I would like to commend you for being a fake doctor, especially a fake pcp. Most people would be want to be a fake neurosurgeon, or a fake cardiologist. Now I will address your fake concerns. Yes we are the best at treating diseases. (Whoop Whoop) But we are like so poor almost nonexistent in treating preventative care. There is no reason we as a developing nation should have uh, hold on let me look at my fake statistics, oh yes 500 million Americans with out health care. My solution to this is to create more fake doctors, namely DNPs. But how will you pay for this opponents may ask. Simple, I reply, we will tax the **** out of everyone until they are like so poor almost nonexistent. Thank you.
we don't need to reward incentivize preventative care for the physicians, we need to reward incentivize patients for taking care of themselves with basic things like eating healthily and not being lazy slobs who circle the parking lot until the closest spot opens up.

Pretty sad, really
 
Thank you NavyFlightDoc and chocomorsel for your kind words. As you can tell, I feel pretty strongly about this issue. I have to limit the time I spend posting/discussing it because it can easily take up too much time.

I'm actually debating about whether to stay in medicine. Currently I'm in transition from another specialty and considering anesthesia. For a variety of reasons, the outcome of this issue being just one, I'm not sure staying in medicine at all is right for me.

I chose the name Not In Kansas because I can't believe what is going on in this county these days. I feel like I've been swept away and set down in a strange land.
 
Send this to Sermo.com

Sermo is an online physician community that requires physician status verification. It's the strongest, and the only unified voice against obama care at this point.

Join them, and voice your opinion now,



Because it's not about health care. It's about government control.

Name one government agency/program that does anything better/more efficiently and at less cost than it's private sector counterpart. There is none.

As mentioned by others, NO ONE is denied access to health care in this country. There are a number who don't have insurance, but they aren't denied access to health care.

But the government has been successful in creating an entitlement mentality around health care. So people who don't have insurance choose not to spend their money on health care. Yes, some things are prohibitively expensive. But primary care needn't be, especially if one makes healthy lifestyle choices.

For those that hold European country's socialized medicine up as models to follow- know this: the UK government run health care system is the third largest employer in the world! Yet people have to wait a year for joint replacements/ cataract surgery just to name a couple of items.

Do you want your grandmother to have to remain blind for an additional year waiting her turn the list? Isn't she more likely to fall and sustain other injuries (eg hip fracture) during that time?

The scariest thing about the current health care bill is how determined many in government seem to be to ram it through in a hurry. The fact that representatives express indignation when asked if they've read a bill ("why should I read it when it will take 2 days and a bunch of lawyers to explain what's in it?") before voting on it. That Obama himself clearly hasn't read it and doesn't know what's in it. It's not HIS plan, it's the House of Representatives plan. He keeps saying "you'll be able to keep your private insurance if you like it" but this bill clearly makes private insurance illegal. The bottom line is that Obama, and many of the representatives, don't really care about the particulars of the bill, as long as it puts the government firmly in charge of health care.

The opposition to this bill in particular, and socialized medicine in general, is about more than just health care. It's about freedom of choice. Freedom from the government controlling every aspect of our lives. It's about the contempt our elected representatives, who are supposed to be working FOR us, have toward us.

What good is your health, or making $300,000 per year, or making $150,000 per year with student loan forgiveness, if you don't have your freedom?
 
Nope, not kidding, not sleep deprived. Very well rested actually as I had the weekend off. I've never made more than 50K per year in my life. So 150K is a lot of money for me. But then again, maybe I'd have a problem if I was making 300k and that got cut down by 50%. But seriously, one would still be living a pretty decent life in my opinion.

Sorry dude, can't relate. Different perspectives.

Well there's your problem. Perhaps had you actually done some real work with real responsibilities before going to medical school and earned 50k with family in tote, you would realize that's not a lot of money given your education. Hell, a waiter with no college degree makes that much here in Chicago. The reason you can't relate is because you are one sheltered SOB who's never been responsible for anyone else and PAID accordingly for that RESPONSIBILITY, not because you are from a poor background.
 
want to see a failed universal (insurance) healthcare system? Look at Massachusetts. It's a fun thing to check out. lots of red ink and lots of zeroes. I don't know why more politicians aren't referencing this during the debates.

Also, agreed on the 50,000 bucks argument. This is the best paying job I've ever had, too. But if I wasn't able to fend off the banks with yearly forbearance applications, I'd be living in a cardboard box in Boston right now. I think choco might have less of a sense of what things actually cost. Calculate the loan payments that many of us will be held accountable for. Then add cost of living, malpractice, buy-in fee (depending on the group) and remember to take 30-40% off the top of that estimated salary and look how much is left over. Awesome, right? I didn't ever want to retire, anyway...

chris
 
want to see a failed universal (insurance) healthcare system? Look at Massachusetts. It's a fun thing to check out. lots of red ink and lots of zeroes. I don't know why more politicians aren't referencing this during the debates.

From today's AMA Morning Report:

Report indicates Massachusetts may have highest health insurance premiums.

The Boston Globe (8/22, Lazar) reported, "Massachusetts has the most expensive family health insurance premiums in the country," according to a report by the Commonwealth Fund. The analysis revealed that "the average family premium for plans offered by employers in Massachusetts was $13,788 in 2008, 40 percent higher than in 2003." Meanwhile, "premiums nationwide rose an average of 33 percent." The report also "projects that without significant cost reforms, an annual family premium in Massachusetts will soar to $26,730 by 2020." But, the report noted that "costs do not eat as big a hole in the typical family budget as in most other states," because "household income in Massachusetts is much higher than the national average." The state's "landmark 2006 law that mandated coverage for nearly everyone," is "often cited as a model for a national healthcare overhaul," and "advocates on various sides of the issue said the report underscores the urgency of including cost controls in any large-scale federal or state overhaul."
 
Top