Why are some MS3s taking Step 2CK so early?

[deleted1139416]

Some people are starting to take it now or early May. Wouldn't you want to spend as much time as possible preparing? Are your schools forcing you to do this?

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[Chromium Surfer]

probably because they need to do multiple aways especially if they are in surg subspecialities

 

[Med Ed]

The smart students spend all of 3rd year preparing, as Step 2 is essentially a composite of the clinical shelf exams. They only need a couple of weeks of review/consolidation and they get excellent scores (on average). They can then move on unburdened to focus on away rotations, ERAS, etc., which makes everyone happy.

 

[mistafab]

Yeah bro I took mine in late April. If you did well on all your shelves and have been keeping up, you might as well get it over with. Definitely want it finished before sub I's, which typically start by June at least.

 

[aldol16]

This is a consequence of Step 1 being pass fail. When Step 1 wasn't P/F, you studied hard, took a lot of time to prep for Step 1, and took it. Then you could delay Step 2 and take it after ERAS. But now, nobody has a Step 1 score and so the only way to distinguish yourself from other applicants is the Step 2 CK score. So people want it back in time for ERAS applications and to have time to retake it or plan out their year if they do poorly. This is also why making Step 1 pass fail was such a stupid idea.

 

[bGMx]

Step 2 should be pass fail.

 

[deleted771945]

Step 2 should be pass fail.

And make Step 1 scored again.

 

[Sidus1011]

Step 2 should be pass fail.

This is how we end up like lawyers where school prestige is all that matters.

 

[Hartroc]

So I can move on with my life.

I've been preparing all year by grinding UWorld and Anki. I got a good score on my first practice assessment, and I have a month to improve on that. Why put it off?

 

[bGMx]

I'm not particularly attached to this idea, but why is it not possible for residencies to use other parameters besides Step II grades to find talent?

 

[Sidus1011]

I'm not particularly attached to this idea, but why is it not possible for residencies to use other parameters besides Step II grades to find talent?

Because the other most frequently used parameter is research, which is barely relevant in a community setting (in which the vast majority of physicians end up practicing). Lower tier schools with lack of research connections or home programs would be put at a disadvantage. I'd rather not have the MCAT define my career.

 

[bGMx]

There's plenty of other parameters to optimize for besides research.

 

[Sidus1011]

There's plenty of other parameters to optimize for besides research.

There are. However, stratification for overapplication usually uses the simplest metrics. I'm interested in fields like Neuro and Psych where soft skills are a lot more important for application, but most other fields view these as unimportant. I'd love if we lived in a world where every application was given fair review, but this will not happen when there are hundreds of applicants for a handful of spots due to virtual interviewing.

 

[bGMx]

I would think the cleanest solution to that is to cap applications at 25 or so.

 

[Sidus1011]

I would think the cleanest solution to that is to cap applications at 25 or so.

The signaling system is functioning that way for more competitive fields already, we'll see if it trickles down to moderate to low competitive over the next few cycles when the number of applicants increases a good amount.

 

[bGMx]

I think not using board exams for anything besides assessing medical competence is the way to go. I'm sure there would be suboptimal outcomes with what we're proposing but it wouldn't be worse than it is now; I would imagine it actually being better.

 

[deleted1139416]

The most ironic thing about board exams is that they are, by nature, wide in their content breadth. Yet the specialties that require a wide content breadth (FM, EM, etc) have the lowest average board scores.

I just find it hilarious that a field like Derm wants a 250 despite the entire exam having online like 5-10 derm questions…

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

Some people are starting to take it now or early May. Wouldn't you want to spend as much time as possible preparing? Are your schools forcing you to do this?

You spend all year studying for Step 2 through rotations and shelf exams. People historically have studied for ~2weeks and still have done remarkably well.

I think people will study more on average this year due to the recent changes, but people will still score 90th+ percentile with little to no prep if they've been doing well throughout the year.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I would think the cleanest solution to that is to cap applications at 25 or so.

OK, but then how does one decide which 25 programs to target? Why wouldn't everyone just apply to the same 25 top-tier programs? Or, how would some students decide they are top-tier worthy and who should be targeting other programs? Even more fundamentally, how does someone know they are competitive for a competitive specialty in the first place?

I am not saying the answer should be step 1 or step 2 score... but many schools have systematically been removing grading. If there are no objective measures of an applicant's ability, then you're just left with school prestige and research.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

OK, but then how does one decide which 25 programs to target? Why wouldn't everyone just apply to the same 25 top-tier programs? Or, how would some students decide they are top-tier worthy and who should be targeting other programs? Even more fundamentally, how does someone know they are competitive for a competitive specialty in the first place?

I am not saying the answer should be step 1 or step 2 score... but many schools have systematically been removing grading. If there are no objective measures of an applicant's ability, then you're just left with school prestige and research.

More consistency from schools in reporting clinical grades (and pre-clinical grades) would help. I'm of the opinion that pre-clinical grades, clerkship grades, research QUALITY, extracurricular interests, LOR's, interview performance, and rigor / quality of medical school could all be used in addition to or in lieu of a scored step 2. Even w/o step 2, it seems there would be enough criteria to go on if schools were truly grading their students along the way. I feel there is more merit to 4 years of grades than how you did on one given Saturday (step 2).

 

[GoSpursGo]

More consistency from schools in reporting clinical grades (and pre-clinical grades) would help. I'm of the opinion that pre-clinical grades, clerkship grades, research QUALITY, extracurricular interests, LOR's, interview performance, and rigor / quality of medical school could all be used in addition to or in lieu of a scored step 2. Even w/o step 2, it seems there would be enough criteria to go on if schools were truly grading their students along the way. I feel there is more merit to 4 years of grades than how you did on one given Saturday (step 2).

I agree in principal. But that’s my point—so many schools are going P/F. Maybe it is what the majority of students want, but it is damaging to students who want to go into anything competitive unless you are already going to a prestigious school

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

The most ironic thing about board exams is that they are, by nature, wide in their content breadth. Yet the specialties that require a wide content breadth (FM, EM, etc) have the lowest average board scores.

I just find it hilarious that a field like Derm wants a 250 despite the entire exam having online like 5-10 derm questions…

Don't think critically; the system doesn't like that.