Why aren't Pharmacists lobbying to save their profession?

[Arminios]

Why?...

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[smercer]

Because we have too many organizations that do not work together and our most powerful organization spends more time trying to convince people we need more pharmacists than working to make sure pharmacists have better working conditions and keeping new schools from opening.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Because we're a bunch of bitches.

 

[6GodPharm]

Because we're a bunch of bitches.

I think it’s because we’re content. **** I got a good paying job, most of us have kids, families and other hobbys. No one that’s doing well or thats been in the pharmacy field for a while cares about new grads. Hell I don’t care. You want to be 200k in debt and get a job where there will be no OT, maybe 32-40 hour weeks go for it.

 

[MV777]

I think it’s because we’re content. **** I got a good paying job, most of us have kids, families and other hobbys. No one that’s doing well or thats been in the pharmacy field for a while cares about new grads. Hell I don’t care. You want to be 200k in debt and get a job where there will be no OT, maybe 32-40 hour weeks go for it.

I think about going back to school for something else here and there because I'm sure it will only get worse. But it's not logical to go back to school when you spent so much time already and let's talk about the 200k in debt. Cannot add more to that! We're stuck. That's why we don't do anything.

 

[rcodyfb16]

I think it’s because we’re content. **** I got a good paying job, most of us have kids, families and other hobbys. No one that’s doing well or thats been in the pharmacy field for a while cares about new grads. Hell I don’t care. You want to be 200k in debt and get a job where there will be no OT, maybe 32-40 hour weeks go for it.

Why is our field unique to this? MDs, ARNP, PA, RN all could be said to be in the same situation but somehow they have lobbying groups that protect their current rights and are constantly pushing for more.

 

[lord999]

Because we have too many organizations that do not work together and our most powerful organization spends more time trying to convince people we need more pharmacists than working to make sure pharmacists have better working conditions and keeping new schools from opening.

I think you give them too much credit. In certain cases , APhA and ASHP work against your interests now. Sad state of our leadership .

 

[steveysmith54]

I think they are too busy applying for positions at new schools... anyone see the faculty at these new schools, most are comprised of pharmacists who finished a residency a year ago and call them themselves “clinicians”... what the hell do they know abt the profession ? Proly never held a real job

 

[boriqua]

Most of the people I went to school with in the pharmacy program were not social people. Many kept to themselves, laid their heads low, and studied all day either individually or with their selective small cliques. Not exactly the type of people who are leaders, organizers, or lobbyists.

 

[zelman]

Why is our field unique to this? MDs, ARNP, PA, RN all could be said to be in the same situation but somehow they have lobbying groups that protect their current rights and are constantly pushing for more.

Their lobbies aren't representing CVS and Walgreens' interests. They actually care about the providers.

 

[Abby Atwood]

I think a big part of the answer is that we need to figure out how. Is there a particular issue that you are talking about? Depending on the issue, pharmacists may be lobbying already.

 

[CMUchicka]

I think they are too busy applying for positions at new schools... anyone see the faculty at these new schools, most are comprised of pharmacists who finished a residency a year ago and call them themselves “clinicians”... what the hell do they know abt the profession ? Proly never held a real job

I have seen this at my school and my school isn't even new.. it's sad..

 

[statepharmagent]

Were too busy trying to differentiate ourselves from each other to see who does "real pharmacy clinical work" and how we're better than the other pharmacists. We got pgy2 trained people looking down on pgy1s who look down on non resident trained staff pharmacists. Then you got the whole hospital vs retail thing etc. I know a lot of pharmacists make sure theyre known as "clinical pharmacists" so they dont get confused with the you know regular retail pharmacist or staffer guy. Sure doctors have their hierarchy but the surgeon will still identify as a doctor and not a "clinical doctor" and view a primary care guy as still a doctor.

 

[rxdawg21]

Were too busy trying to differentiate ourselves from each other to see who does "real pharmacy clinical work" and how we're better than the other pharmacists. We got pgy2 trained people looking down on pgy1s who look down on non resident trained staff pharmacists. Then you got the whole hospital vs retail thing etc. I know a lot of pharmacists make sure theyre known as "clinical pharmacists" so they dont get confused with the you know regular retail pharmacist or staffer guy. Sure doctors have their hierarchy but the surgeon will still identify as a doctor and not a "clinical doctor" and view a primary care guy as still a doctor.

So true. This residency mindset (and the mindset of a lot of the clinicals that did a residency) is ridiculous.

 

[BenJammin]

Most pharmacists are all talk, no action. You see a lot of people whine and complain about their working conditions but those people deep down enjoy it. They enjoy being written up for bathroom breaks, they enjoy working 14 hours straight without lunch, and they enjoy filling 500 prescriptions with 1 technician. KHOU had a story about misfills in Texas and the executive director of the state board of pharmacy actually said that she does not believe that any pharmacy in Texas uses metrics to tell pharmacists that they need to fill a certain amount of prescriptions. It sounds crazy until you find out that not one pharmacist has ever complained to them about it. Nobody complains to them about no lunch breaks, no bathroom breaks, etc. State board meetings are a matter of public record. When was the last time they published a letter from a pharmacist describing poor working conditions? Never.

Harsh but true.

 

[pharm B]

KHOU had a story about misfills in Texas and the executive director of the state board of pharmacy actually said that she does not believe that any pharmacy in Texas uses metrics to tell pharmacists that they need to fill a certain amount of prescriptions. I

I never forgave her for that.

 

[quickpic007]

I never forgave her for that.

Why would anyone? that clip simply showcases that individual's integrity and where the board stands.

 

[pharm B]

Why would anyone? that clip simply showcases that individual's integrity and where the board stands.

I voted with my feet, for a number of reasons. Hence I'm not in Texas any more.

 

[deleted820760]

Were too busy trying to differentiate ourselves from each other to see who does "real pharmacy clinical work" and how we're better than the other pharmacists. We got pgy2 trained people looking down on pgy1s who look down on non resident trained staff pharmacists. Then you got the whole hospital vs retail thing etc. I know a lot of pharmacists make sure theyre known as "clinical pharmacists" so they dont get confused with the you know regular retail pharmacist or staffer guy. Sure doctors have their hierarchy but the surgeon will still identify as a doctor and not a "clinical doctor" and view a primary care guy as still a doctor.

This!!! Yes! It's so ridiculous. You would think people with that kind of ego would have just gone to med school to begin with. I dislike meaningless titles and hierarchies. Pharmacy is full of exactly what you described.

You left out the credential collectors! Multiple board certifications, diabetes educator, etc. and they put all that in their email as if anyone cares.

 

[zelman]

You left out the credential collectors! Multiple board certifications, diabetes educator, etc. and they put all that in their email as if anyone cares.

Hey!

-zelman Phi Lambda Sigma, Rho Chi, BCPS, MS, PharmD, RPh, ex-CPhT

 

[statepharmagent]

You left out the credential collectors! Multiple board certifications, diabetes educator, etc. and they put all that in their email as if anyone cares.

Oh man I kid you not there are a couple at my hospital that have like 6+ abbreviations after their PharmD. One of the doctors literally laughed when he saw the person's signed electronic note signature and asked what do these even stand for? I then googled it and even today I am not exactly sure what they stand for. LOL

 

[Digsbe]

Oh man I kid you not there are a couple at my hospital that have like 6+ abbreviations after their PharmD. One of the doctors literally laughed when he saw the person's signed electronic note signature and asked what do these even stand for? I then googled it and even today I am not exactly sure what they stand for. LOL

I feel like many pharmacists in the clinical setting or academia are just vying to validate themselves and include every abbreviation to appear as a relevant clinician while they starve for mundane clinical duties like being allowed to adjust warfarin doses or sign protocols with physicians to do their busywork. Pharmacists are definitely over qualified and under utilized in how we practice clinically, but I've notice the alphabet soup after a name tends to correlate with a need to validate ones self or skills.

CVS and WAG froze salaries and gave no raises directly after performance reviews were conducted. The fact that many pharmacists still sit on their butts and do nothing speaks to why we have a problem. I've not heard a colleague advocate for closing schools, better benefits/compensation, or trying to nudge orgs owned by hospital systems and chains to advocate for pharmacy individuals. Too many feel "lucky to have a job" and won't say anything. Where I work they rolled out a quarterly bonus structure for all employees.... minus pharmacists. I do love my job and I'm blessed to be here. But at some point we need to begin to respect ourselves. We are too busy chasing after provider status over trying to address current issues. I'm partially guilty. In my previous position I'd stay 1 to 2 hours after closing uncompensated fearing I could lose my job if I didn't finish work due to being understaffed (some days single pharmacist working 14 hours doing 650 a day)

 

[Charcoales]

Holy **** 650 with 1 rph. Its a madhouse and we only do 600 and we have 6 hrs of overlap as well as being 24hr

 

[Jbrl]

Why is our field unique to this? MDs, ARNP, PA, RN all could be said to be in the same situation but somehow they have lobbying groups that protect their current rights and are constantly pushing for more.

At the grassroots, we're divided by clinical vs. non-clinical cultural issues, unlike the professions listed. At the high level, our public protectors are cozy with the big chains and have bet our money on 'clinical pharmacy' to save the profession, where most (>75%) don't work.

Also, wasn't there an APhA exec on this site not too long ago heralding the advent of provider status and all the job shortage we would need to fill? Yeah, that's why.

 

[deleted820760]

Do you guys know of pharmacists who put all those credentials on their lab coat or ID? I know of a pharmacist who requested to have them put on her ID, but they said no. Lmao. They said all pharmacists get PharmD on their ID and that’s it (unless they don’t have a PharmD).

 

[Digsbe]

Holy **** 650 with 1 rph. Its a madhouse and we only do 600 and we have 6 hrs of overlap as well as being 24hr

It was. 8 to 10 with max 3 or 4 tech's.

Do you guys know of pharmacists who put all those credentials on their lab coat or ID? I know of a pharmacist who requested to have them put on her ID, but they said no. Lmao. They said all pharmacists get PharmD on their ID and that’s it (unless they don’t have a PharmD).

Most MDs don't list anything other than MD. Why wear a paragraph on your coat lol.

 

[DrVader]

Why?...

I feel that in general pharmacy is professional for smart people who just want a good white college job. I haven't really met many aggressive or ambitious pharmacies. Heck, to work in retail you have to be meek. The real problem is that the general public doesn't know what pharmacist does. Customers don't even know a pharmacist from a tech. It is hard to lobby a senator who doesn't know what we do. As a professional, we need more fire in our bellies.

 

[AlwaysContrary]

Were too busy trying to differentiate ourselves from each other to see who does "real pharmacy clinical work" and how we're better than the other pharmacists. We got pgy2 trained people looking down on pgy1s who look down on non resident trained staff pharmacists. Then you got the whole hospital vs retail thing etc. I know a lot of pharmacists make sure theyre known as "clinical pharmacists" so they dont get confused with the you know regular retail pharmacist or staffer guy. Sure doctors have their hierarchy but the surgeon will still identify as a doctor and not a "clinical doctor" and view a primary care guy as still a doctor.

I think this view is the same looking the other way. I know a lot of community pharmacists that look down upon pharmacists who went on and did residency.

 

[flagyladams]

New graduates and students think all is well, while the seasoned veterans don’t care and want to keep their paycheck.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

Whenever I see my professors wear those short white coats and hear them call each other 'doctor', the words "stolen valor" always comes to mind.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

At the grassroots, we're divided by clinical vs. non-clinical cultural issues, unlike the professions listed. At the high level, our public protectors are cozy with the big chains and have bet our money on 'clinical pharmacy' to save the profession, where most (>75%) don't work.

Also, wasn't there an APhA exec on this site not too long ago heralding the advent of provider status and all the job shortage we would need to fill? Yeah, that's why.

The APhA, ASHP, and the majority of pharmacy schools are out-of-touch with reality. I assume the APhA exec/president (ChapmanPharmacy) hasn't even fully understood the implications of the current HRSA report (or he chooses to deny it).

 

[rxdawg21]

I think this view is the same looking the other way. I know a lot of community pharmacists that look down upon pharmacists who went on and did residency.

First I've heard of that. I think they nah look down on what residency means and has become (i.e. Qualifies you for stuff that use to be entry level) but nkt the actually person

 

[AlwaysContrary]

First I've heard of that. I think they nah look down on what residency means and has become (i.e. Qualifies you for stuff that use to be entry level) but nkt the actually person

That's most definitely possible. However, if you read through this thread you'll see that hate is coming from both sides. It's kinda sad really.

 

[gwarm01]

Aww.. this has become a thread after my own heart. I must have selected five or more people to quote, but it just became too much.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who, along with the doctors, like to laugh at the clinical pharmacist who has fifteen credentials in their e-mail signature. I don't see it a lot these days because the culture of this region. Our clinical coordinators were staff pharmacists for years before developing their programs. I worked with most of them back when I was an intern, and they are still the same down to earth people from before.

There is this nursing manager guy that moved here from out of state that fits the bill though.. e-mail sig nine miles long with a BSN, BA, MSc, PhD, fifteen certificates. Reeks of insecurity to me, but who knows.

 

[radio frequency]

I think this view is the same looking the other way. I know a lot of community pharmacists that look down upon pharmacists who went on and did residency.

I just feel bad for the ones who did a residency and ended up doing the same job as I do for the same pay. I think if you dedicate that amount of work to something at such a low wage, it should actually get you in the door doing something different...but that’s not how our residencies are set up. Instead they end up farther behind financially than those who just went ahead and worked after school, with no guarantees of future employment opportunities.

 

[beautifulrobot]

I just feel bad for the ones who did a residency and ended up doing the same job as I do for the same pay. I think if you dedicate that amount of work to something at such a low wage, it should actually get you in the door doing something different...but that’s not how our residencies are set up. Instead they end up farther behind financially than those who just went ahead and worked after school, with no guarantees of future employment opportunities.

Agree that the setup for pharmacy residency is a bit screwy. It's a bit of a gamble - it inceases the chances of more opportunities in clinical roles, but isn't either a guarantee or a requirement, so it ends up just being a different (more expensive to the individual) pathway rather than the only pathway.

Residencies were intended to provide training for more specialized clinical work (and to a certain extent still serve that purpose), but have evolved into a tool to try to distinguish oneself in attempts to avoid becoming a victim of the current job market.

The issues with pharmacy residencies are telling of the entire profession. It is more challenging to fight against the degradation of our profession by those who profit off of our labor when we are divided and dispersed among many roles, practice settings, and even pharmacist "identities." Instead of fighting against those who are actually making our working conditions unbearable, we try to distinguish ourselves from other pharmacists, and hope that will save us. After all, none of us want to be seen as victims and none of us want to think we'll ever end up like those "other" pharmacists who don't have fulltime work or work in terrible conditions.

 

[Sine Cura]

Or think about it this way? Why would you want to save something you hate? Most people in chain retail are indifferent or hate their job.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Many students go into pharmacy hearing about the clinical and "provider status" roles and claim to be "passionate" about these issues. They expect these clinical positions to be there for them when they graduate from school or residency and expect to be paid a six-figure salary.

When they realize that these positions aren't there for them when they graduate, the next best thing is for them to slave away at CVS. They get to collect a paycheck every 2 weeks which beats trying to fight for the profession they previously claim to be so "passionate" about for little or no pay.

Some artists and teachers who are extremely passionate about their work are willing to provide their services for free and will work minimum wage jobs to supplant their incomes. When a pre-pharm claims they are passionate about pharmacy they mean it as long as they 1) don't have to work in retail, 2) get to live in their saturated metro area of choice, and/or 3) don't take into account taxes and student loans that will eat up as much as 2/3's of their $120k salary.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Many students go into pharmacy hearing about the clinical and "provider status" roles and claim to be "passionate" about these issues. They expect these clinical positions to be there for them when they graduate from school or residency and expect to be paid a six-figure salary.

When they realize that these positions aren't there for them when they graduate, the next best thing is for them to slave away at CVS. They get to collect a paycheck every 2 weeks which beats trying to fight for the profession they previously claim to be so "passionate" about for little or no pay.

Some artists and teachers who are extremely passionate about their work are willing to provide their services for free and will work minimum wage jobs to supplant their incomes. When a pre-pharm claims they are passionate about pharmacy they mean it as long as they 1) don't have to work in retail, 2) get to live in their saturated metro area of choice, and/or 3) don't take into account taxes and student loans that will eat up as much as 2/3's of their $120k salary.

Broooooo, don't even get me started about a certain pharmacist that runs what is essentially a Facebook meme page while pretending they're an activist.

Meanwhile they work in the banquet hall of a gucci-mode historic building for a fake company started by a college of pharmacy that only does faux clinical stuff.
They're barely even a real pharmacist**,
But they're constantly spamming "clinical" this, "provider status" that.

 

[pharm B]

I just took APhA’s “why won’t you renew” survey, and blasted their lack of effective advocacy for our profession.

At the end of the survey I got a 20% off membership discount.

 

[Amicable Angora]

It's been a good day, must have liked 20 posts in this thread.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I just took APhA’s “why won’t you renew” survey, and blasted their lack of effective advocacy for our profession.

At the end of the survey I got a 20% off membership discount.

I once sent TPA a multi paragraph email lambasting them for sending out a survey asking what issue really mattered to us:

Which hotel or rental car discounts we wanted

 

[DrVader]

Many students go into pharmacy hearing about the clinical and "provider status" roles and claim to be "passionate" about these issues. They expect these clinical positions to be there for them when they graduate from school or residency and expect to be paid a six-figure salary.

When they realize that these positions aren't there for them when they graduate, the next best thing is for them to slave away at CVS. They get to collect a paycheck every 2 weeks which beats trying to fight for the profession they previously claim to be so "passionate" about for little or no pay.

Some artists and teachers who are extremely passionate about their work are willing to provide their services for free and will work minimum wage jobs to supplant their incomes. When a pre-pharm claims they are passionate about pharmacy they mean it as long as they 1) don't have to work in retail, 2) get to live in their saturated metro area of choice, and/or 3) don't take into account taxes and student loans that will eat up as much as 2/3's of their $120k salary.

Schools are simply not being honest about the field of Pharmacy. They don't want to admit that 70-80% of it is retail. You have PhD who have never set one toe in a pharmacy teaching students. You have clinical pharmacist who want to play doctor. The pharmD adds nothing to the field. People need to realize that colleges are businesses and they are selling a product. They don't care about you once you graduate. Most pharmacist learned about the reality of the field well into their schooling and then it was too late.

 

[Seriously Serious]

Cringe... cringe everywhere

 

[quickpic007]

I just took APhA’s “why won’t you renew” survey, and blasted their lack of effective advocacy for our profession.

At the end of the survey I got a 20% off membership discount.

one of my proudest accomplishments in school & work is not giving a cent of fees to that organization.

 

[steveysmith54]

one of my proudest accomplishments in school & work is not giving a cent of fees to that organization.

Lol, same here... Ridiculous that these organizations decide to charge membership fees for poor Pharmacy students who already in such huge debt

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Who is this??
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

You're either asking me who I am or to publicly name someone I just brutally insulted.

No
Thx

 

[owlegrad]

You're either asking me who I am or to publicly name someone I just brutally insulted.

No
Thx

Look we just want to know who you are and who you're insulting. Come on you know you want it out yourself and this other person.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

 

[Modest_anteater]

Whenever I see my professors wear those short white coats and hear them call each other 'doctor', the words "stolen valor" always comes to mind.

Stolen Valor only applies to telling others you earned medals now. the Stolen Valor Act of 2005 was found unconstitutional and repealed.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I guess you just have to fake it if you don't make it.

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