With malpractice, NPs and PAs becoming independent, long years of medical school, huge amount of debt, and a low salary (for PCP) why even bother becoming a doctor?
With malpractice, NPs and PAs becoming independent, long years of medical school, huge amount of debt, and a low salary (for PCP) why even bother becoming a doctor?
...........a low salary (for PCP) why even bother becoming a doctor?
I guess I should have said; In light of issues that many people discuss intensely on SDN such as CRNAs, lack of P.C Physicians, lowering reimbursements, Insurance companies telling you how to practice, and future compettetion from midlevels, why do you still want to become a doctor?
As shy wisely suggests, medicine is not for everyone and the decision to enter medical school should not be taken lightly.
I can say for myself, it was always something I have wanted to do, and the more I learned about it, the more I liked it.
It is my understanding that PCPs make about 120k before taxes and malpractice. After taxes this is about 90 something, I read it before here on SDN. I know low pay of PCP has already been discussed alot, I guess I just need a boost from other people who are in this journey (especially after my biochem rappage today)
I am a premed student who is just beginning to question my choice of career path. I have always wanted to go into medicine but recently I am being faced with various dilemmas. At the start of it all, before all the hardships of the profession, fundamentally what made you decide to go to med school and become a doctor?
fixed.i look pretty good wearing a doctors coat.
there really is nothing else I want to do in my life than becoming a physician, really... nothing. Except maybe an actor who plays a doctor.
It is my understanding that PCPs make about 120k before taxes and malpractice. After taxes this is about 90 something, I read it before here on SDN. I know low pay of PCP has already been discussed alot, I guess I just need a boost from other people who are in this journey (especially after my biochem rappage today)
Seneca, don't come bringing "facts" and "statistics" into the equation. This is SDN, where anecdotal evidence, hearsay and speculation reign supreme.
Seneca, don't come bringing "facts" and "statistics" into the equation. This is SDN, where anecdotal evidence, hearsay and speculation reign supreme.
Three numbers, 50th%, 75%, and 90%:
FP (w/o)OB - $164,021; $207,119; $267,922
IM - $177,059; $220,796; $277,922
PED - $174,353; $222,345; $284,867
PSY - $185,957; $224,202; $267,183
OBG - $271,425; $350,000; $451,410
UCFMOP,
Your original question would be best answered by folks who have finished med school and have some experience at "doctoring...no offense to pre-meds. I would suggest posting in the general residency forum. You'll get some bites.
PM me if you have questions. I'd be happy to help you out. I have my own jaded opinions but I still like what I do. That might not make any sense to a pre-med and that's exactly my point. Also, I think I can stay pretty objective about other people's experiences as well.
Sorry for bringing in the facts and stats, its the finance guy in me - I just can't seem to kill him. Can ya'll ever forgive me??? One last bit of #'s and I'm done.
Doctor:
As for the inflated #'s I work on the Doc's behalf, so I don't even touch 25%, if its not 50th% or better I don't come to the table. Just added info the 25% is generally Docs working in the heart of major metro, VA or other government employees. For the sake the conversation I would think that the 50% numbers would most apply, I'm just used to throwing out 50, 75, and 90th numbers out of habit. Here are 25% sorry for not including them earlier:
FP - $134,272
IM - $144,886
PED - $137,536
PSY - $159,019
OBG - $216,815
Hope that clears things up everyone.
UFPharmDO:
Look forward to meeting you. I'm moving down there the beginning of June. I decided not to live on campus, bought a condo about 4 miles from campus, haven't looked at the housing form. As to EM docs, $240/hr is definitely on the high end. Depending on the part of the country, size community, and trauma level, I see $120-180/hr. As far as total income they are averaging right at $250K a year.
OP to your question: I'm shallow, narcissistic, totally obsessed with money, and figured I'd finally have an excuse for the whole God complex....... Is that bad?
You know, we're supposed to shadow docs to get a feel for medicine, but really we should shadow people in a half dozen professions so we get to hear the universal bitch fest that is the average career. There's a downside and a fear factor in any direction you go. Engineering? Outsourcing. Business? Recession. Law? Tort reform. Nursing? Imported labor. Medicine doesn't own misery.
are these numbers before or after taxes? I am not surprised FPs earn this much but I am just wondering if this is what they take home.
You know, we're supposed to shadow docs to get a feel for medicine, but really we should shadow people in a half dozen professions so we get to hear the universal bitch fest that is the average career. There's a downside and a fear factor in any direction you go. Engineering? Outsourcing. Business? Recession. Law? Tort reform. Nursing? Imported labor. Medicine doesn't own misery.
are these numbers before or after taxes? I am not surprised FPs earn this much but I am just wondering if this is what they take home.
True-er words have never been spoken. At least not on SDN
I've worked in other fields. They all suck. Every field will have someone trying to get a leg up on you...whether it's PA's, NP's, some young hotshot, the Chinese, India, outsourcing, The Jury, Wall Street, the "Shareholders", that other District Manager who is gunning for the VP position, etc...
I am pursuing medicine because it is an exciting field that does good work and pays well. I like learning, reading, the amazing technological advances, most of the people, and the work.
As someone who was not brought up in a medical family...the things we can do today are friggin' awesome. I've watched a lung get deflated, so a tumor can be removed from above a kid's beating heart thoroscopically. Awesome. Pretty run of the mill by today's standards too.
Also, it should not be forgotten that no matter HOW much autonomy is given to PA's...they are still "Physician Assistants." They assist us, not the other way around. It's stuck in their name for eternity.
Their increased autonomy might spell trouble for Primary Care, but I rather doubt it. There's more than enough to go around. The relatively low pay for FP's is mostly due to the horrible way reimbursements are done.
Btw...those salary numbers seem about right to me from what I've heard. The ER docs I work with are making around 250k-280k starting. 35-40 hour work weeks, no call, scribes, small community hosipital. Nice gig.
150k is about right for FP's too. And, their work week has been averaging around 42-45 hours...much lower then the 60+ hours seen in radiology for 300k...and they don't have to deal with hospital administration or bosses. Might be worth it to some people.
This is exactly what i tell people when they ask "why not PA?" Because i want to call the shots, that's why. PA's, NP's---both great careers, but they have a professional and intellectual 'ceiling'. You will always be #2. If someone is ok with that i think it's an awesome career choice.
I think that this is an important point premeds need to heed. As the wife of a physician I can tell you that I've thought about it more than once. I would love to go to medical school but there are also other things in life that I'd like to do. What I want to do (rural medicine) isn't for the money and I'd most likely lose money. Because I don't want to spend the next 10 years of my life in school/residency/fellowship but hey, I'm still going to be aging gracefully either way. But its a personal opinion.UCFMOP,
Your original question would be best answered by folks who have finished med school and have some experience at "doctoring...no offense to pre-meds. I would suggest posting in the general residency forum. You'll get some bites.
PM me if you have questions. I'd be happy to help you out. I have my own jaded opinions but I still like what I do. That might not make any sense to a pre-med and that's exactly my point. Also, I think I can stay pretty objective about other people's experiences as well.
I would love to hear Dr. Paul Farmer's response to the OP's question...
Anesthesia is where its at, IMO. Great salary, predictable hours, and excellent lifestyle potential if that's what youre after. Plus it's a cool job. You get to work with phys/pharm, do procedures, and the patient interactions are usually positive. How cool is it to relieve someone's pain every day?
Aren't NPs allowed to open their own clinic and be the Primary Care Provider alone in a lot of states? Maybe they have to have a physician come by for 2 hours a week or something. Also, they can prescribe anything a doctor can in a lot of states (like New York and New Jersey) without consulting a physician, including narcotics.