Why didnt you choose a DO school instead?

[helpfuldoc2b]

We all know it isnt too difficult or more difficult to get into a DO school than it is to get into the top 3 carib med schools. For those who had the stats, opportunity and chance to get accepted into a DO school, what was the real reason you chose a MD carib over a DO school? Be honest, was it just the letters and title or was it something else. I am just curious to see the range of responses based on a individual bases.

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[Shinken]

Never mind.

 

[oldpro]

We all know it isnt too difficult or more difficult to get into a DO school than it is to get into the top 3 carib med schools. For those who had the stats, opportunity and chance to get accepted into a DO school, what was the real reason you chose a MD carib over a DO school? Be honest, was it just the letters and title or was it something else. I am just curious to see the range of responses based on a individual bases.

DO you know how useless this is? Why ask a question like this? To start another stupid war here? other Caribbean students and I are tired of MD students and DO students and Premeds all asking "Why did you ever go to the Caribbean?"

Come on already, it doesn't need to be answered every 6 months here doa search on SDN

MODERATORS CLOSE THIS IT HAS BEEN ASKED TO DEATH AND ENDS UP WITH CRAP BEING POSTED!

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

DO you know how useless this is? Why ask a question like this? To start another stupid war here? other Caribbean students and I are tired of MD students and DO students and Premeds all asking "Why did you ever go to the Caribbean?"

Come on already, it doesn't need to be answered every 6 months here doa search on SDN

MODERATORS CLOSE THIS IT HAS BEEN ASKED TO DEATH AND ENDS UP WITH CRAP BEING POSTED!

I am not trying to start any thing, just trying to get information before making an informed decision. I dont know why people are answering it in an immature manner. I sincerely just want to know the reason why.

 

[Doc2007]

I am not trying to start any thing, just trying to get information before making an informed decision. I dont know why people are answering it in an immature manner. I sincerely just want to know the reason why.

This has been discussed several times. You can search this forum and find several threads on this topic.

 

[oldpro]

I am not trying to start any thing, just trying to get information before making an informed decision. I dont know why people are answering it in an immature manner. I sincerely just want to know the reason why.

Excuse me? I'm not the one asking a question that has been asked 1000 Times over and over here. I told you, but lets make it clear most do not choose the Caribbean they go cause they are not accepted into schools in the US due to many different factors. Many different factors. ANd it has been discussed to death the pros and cons of DO. GO to the DO forum and read about the DO style of medicine. But do not think getting into a DO school is as easy as the Caribbean, it's harder, and almost as hard as US MD schools.

Please do not insult me cause I tell ya the truth.

I do see you have over 200 posts so I think you know enough that this kinda stuff starts problems comparing DO and MD, Caribbean to DO ect...................... please you are smart enough I'm sure.

 

[helpfuldoc2b]

Excuse me? I'm not the one asking a question that has been asked 1000 Times over and over here. I told you, but lets make it clear most do not choose the Caribbean they go cause they are not accepted into schools in the US due to many different factors. Many different factors. ANd it has been discussed to death the pros and cons of DO. GO to the DO forum and read about the DO style of medicine. But do not think getting into a DO school is as easy as the Caribbean, it's harder, and almost as hard as US MD schools.

Please do not insult me cause I tell ya the truth.

I do see you have over 200 posts so I think you know enough that this kinda stuff starts problems comparing DO and MD, Caribbean to DO ect...................... please you are smart enough I'm sure.

Gezzz, I asked a similar question on the DO forum and I expected them to act defensive and instead they were more informative and open about their choices. I guess if this question prevents you from getting sleep then just dont read it and let others who find it important enough to respond to respond to it and those who can gain information from it read it. That way everyone will be happy. Now relax before you get constipated

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

We all know it isnt too difficult or more difficult to get into a DO school than it is to get into the top 3 carib med schools. For those who had the stats, opportunity and chance to get accepted into a DO school, what was the real reason you chose a MD carib over a DO school? Be honest, was it just the letters and title or was it something else. I am just curious to see the range of responses based on a individual bases.

My dream was to get the MD ...not the DO....it's as simple as that.

 

[billydoc]

Gezzz, I asked a similar question on the DO forum and I expected them to act defensive and instead they were more informative and open about their choices. I guess if this question prevents you from getting sleep then just dont read it and let others who find it important enough to respond to respond to it and those who can gain information from it read it. That way everyone will be happy. Now relax before you get constipated

The process of getting in is not the same. It's a lot harder to get in D.O than most Carib schools. I got in ROSS in less than 3 weeks of submiting all my stuff. But that was one semester before they've introduced the MCAT as a requirement. There is my reason. I chickened out of MCAT,and rushed to ROSS. Applying D.O would've taken me another 1.5 yrs at least. And there was no guarantee that I'll get in, though it's a very high probability with the "rest of the package" that D.O schools take into considerations. But you've started your post by something "Everybody knows they are about the same for stats" (paraphrase). Many carib students say it to feel good about themselves. They are not even remotely the same as far as American vs Foreign. I know it's being spined by many as "MD vs DO". But outside of this silly premed world the diff is about as in B.S. vs B.A degree or not at all. I quite frankly met quite a few of these die-hard MD title fans, who "would never settle for D.O". Those are the one's that I didn't see after the middle of the semester. They failed out and left. Not all but many, many. If you are looking to make an informed decision, and you have a chance to study in the States as a D.O...I think it's really foolish to go anywhere, no matter how established, and well-known the foreign school is. Just my $0.02.

Good Luck

 

[Inkabellous]

I would like to offer my opinions on this matter. I think the top Caribb schools have relatively the same standard as most D.O. schools, GPA/MCAT-wise. Thus, to simply generalize that Caribb schools are inferior would be very short-sighted. Furthermore, the competition for the top Caribb schools has increased gradually each year. The era where people with 2.5 GPA got accepted into Caribb schools has long gone. This is especially true for the top schools. In addition, it is true that there are Caribb schools that are for-profit and have lower standard for admission. However, the same could also be said for some D.O. schools as well. Personally, I know quite a few people who were accepted to D.O. schools but chose to attend Caribb schools instead. They had their reasons for doing so and I repect that. Regardless of which path you choose, you are bound to encounter some forms of discrimination. There are residency programs that do not consider Caribb grads but this is also true for D.O.s as well. There are many testimonies about this in D.O. forum. Therefore, as of right now, D.O. does not have the same recognition and opportunities as US M.D. does.

 

[oldpro]

Gezzz, I asked a similar question on the DO forum and I expected them to act defensive and instead they were more informative and open about their choices. I guess if this question prevents you from getting sleep then just dont read it and let others who find it important enough to respond to respond to it and those who can gain information from it read it. That way everyone will be happy. Now relax before you get constipated

What ever, I really do not think this helps anyone, MD is MD and DO is different.

I really think this is useless.

 

[DRJJ1]

The process of getting in is not the same. It's a lot harder to get in D.O than most Carib schools. I got in ROSS in less than 3 weeks of submiting all my stuff. But that was one semester before they've introduced the MCAT as a requirement. There is my reason. I chickened out of MCAT,and rushed to ROSS. Applying D.O would've taken me another 1.5 yrs at least. And there was no guarantee that I'll get in, though it's a very high probability with the "rest of the package" that D.O schools take into considerations. But you've started your post by something "Everybody knows they are about the same for stats" (paraphrase). Many carib students say it to feel good about themselves. They are not even remotely the same as far as American vs Foreign. I know it's being spined by many as "MD vs DO". But outside of this silly premed world the diff is about as in B.S. vs B.A degree or not at all. I quite frankly met quite a few of these die-hard MD title fans, who "would never settle for D.O". Those are the one's that I didn't see after the middle of the semester. They failed out and left. Not all but many, many. If you are looking to make an informed decision, and you have a chance to study in the States as a D.O...I think it's really foolish to go anywhere, no matter how established, and well-known the foreign school is. Just my $0.02.

Good Luck

I BET BILLY WILL BE SINGING A DIFF TUNE IF HE DOESN T GET INTO DO SCHOOL ,,,CMON MAN,,TELL IT LIKE IT IS,,

 

[billydoc]

I BET BILLY WILL BE SINGING A DIFF TUNE IF HE DOESN T GET INTO DO SCHOOL ,,,CMON MAN,,TELL IT LIKE IT IS,,

I believe I've been telling it like it is, or at least what my own experience is. I never claimed here that Carib is a bad choice.I already went there, and, yes, will go but "better armed" this time around. I'm not sure where you see the conflict when there is none. However, what I refuse to do is do some twisted, one-sided chearleading either for or against one or the other. I have my own reasons to try to get in the States. And it's not academic, or some stupid "MD vs D.O" crap. Had I been able to stay at ROSS, then I would have. But I got sick and couldn't go on at that rate. I told you this gazillions of time. Which part of it do you still not understand ? Go where you please. For me going away is a lot harder than the school itself, now that I've tried it. So why step in it...again? I'll give myself a very good, solid chance, and if not...Carib is still there ready to take your $$$$$. No worries my friend.

 

[bulletproof]

We all know it isnt too difficult or more difficult to get into a DO school than it is to get into the top 3 carib med schools. For those who had the stats, opportunity and chance to get accepted into a DO school, what was the real reason you chose a MD carib over a DO school? Be honest, was it just the letters and title or was it something else. I am just curious to see the range of responses based on a individual bases.

1. M.D. degree recognised universally. D.O. degree ( while recognised in SOME countries), not nearly as readily recognised as an M.D/Mbbs outside of the United States. This is not my commentary on the relative merits of either degree, just something to consider for those of you for whom living/practicing outside of the U.S. might be a very real possibility.

2. Have no intentions of going into a primary care field and saw little value in learning about osteopathy as someone with no intention of using it on a daily basis.

3. Weighed the pros and cons of both paths ( and there are many ) and decided that "personally" the M.D. was a better decision for me. Had I any inkling of pursueing plastics, derm or *insert other super competitive specialty of the month here*, then I would most definitely have given the Osteopathic approach a second look.

Good luck to you in choosing the path that is right for you.

 

[DRJJ1]

1. M.D. degree recognised universally. D.O. degree ( while recognised in SOME countries), not nearly as readily recognised as an M.D/Mbbs outside of the United States. This is not my commentary on the relative merits of either degree, just something to consider for those of you for whom living/practicing outside of the U.S. might be a very real possibility.

2. Have no intentions of going into a primary care field and saw little value in learning about osteopathy as someone with no intention of using it on a daily basis.

3. Weighed the pros and cons of both paths ( and there are many ) and decided that "personally" the M.D. was a better decision for me. Had I any inkling of pursueing plastics, derm or *insert other super competitive specialty of the month here*, then I would most definitely have given the Osteopathic approach a second look.

Good luck to you in choosing the path that is right for you.

tuition money and time MD is the way for me!! its the gold prize of the health field,,,DO is good for some but MD from carib will still be gold but DO will always have to prove their worthiness

 

[billydoc]

tuition money and time MD is the way for me!! its the gold prize of the health field,,,DO is good for some but MD from carib will still be gold but DO will always have to prove their worthiness

You know, it could be funny except if it wasn't absolutely pathetic. D.Os have to prove their worthiness? To whom? A bunch of clueless premeds, or to some strangers on these B.S boards. They don't seem to be in need of proving the EQUIVAVALENCY of their medical education like FMGs. Not case by case, not in ANY case. How is having an ADDITIONAL training in the musculo-skelital approach, not lack of there of, makes you any less of a doctor? Without name calling...I think it's the most ideotic statement I've seen on these forums in a loooooooooooooooong time. DRJJ1, I really wish you well, and I really hope that SMU acceptance had not altered your mind. I agree that there are more MDs than D.Os, and that the general public may more familiar with MD title associated with physician. But most ppl go to see a doctor, not D.O or MD. And so far I haven't seen any soup lines made of D.Os who didn't "prove their worthiness" . You've got to be kidding, right?

 

[DiveMD]

This thread is dumb...

 

[billydoc]

This thread is dumb...

Thanks for noticing. I think you are right. The only question is why post in it?
Start your own...You know...the bright thread

 

[Shinken]

tuition money and time MD is the way for me!! its the gold prize of the health field,,,DO is good for some but MD from carib will still be gold but DO will always have to prove their worthiness

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not the degree, it's the person holding the degree. The letters "M" and "D" can be useless depending on the person bearing the initials and sometimes the school granting the initials.

I find it amusing that you have to resort to stating that DOs have to prove their worthiness when you're attending a school that is not widely recognized in the US as a "worthy" school.

In the tradition of SDN, here are some links to support my points. Hopefully these links won't scare you too much and will make you think about your career. I'm not trying to insult you, but trying to instill a bit of "real world" sense into you:

Here's a link to the Medical Board of California stating that your school is not approved: http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Applicant_Schools_Unapproved.htm

Here's a link to the Medical Board ot Texas, showing several DOs as members of the board (and not all are in primary care! ). You may notice the president of the board is a DO: http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/boards/mbbios.php

That same board in Texas has a list in which your school does not figure, and therefore if you were to apply for a medical license in Texas, you'll have to "prove your worthiness" to the DOs on the Texas board: http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/professionals/physicians/applicants/STDNHPSE.rtf

Finally (I'm tired of searching the web now), here's a link to the Board of Medical Examiners of Oregon. You might be interested in reading the board's definition of an "approved school of medicine" and also that the same board only recognizes some foreign schools in England, Scotland, Ireland, and Australia. Would it be impossible for an SMU grad to get a license there? Maybe, maybe not. But you'd definitely have to prove worthiness: http://www.lcd.state.or.us/BME/phyappgeneralinformation.shtml

Wait! Here's another one: The medical board of indiana will not grant you a medical license because SMU is on their list of disapproved foreign medical schools (also there's a DO in the board): http://www.in.gov/pla/bandc/mlbi/pdfs/MD_DO_Instruction_Information.pdf

OK, now I'm tired. Anyway, please realize that having an MD degree will not automatically open the doors to US medicine for you. The school attached to that degree might prove to be an obstacle in some states. Just be cognizant of what you will face as a grad of SMU. Good luck to you and I hope someday you'll realize (like so many people) that the DO degree does not necessarily mean the holder has to prove something or has less medical skill/knowledge. Sorry for the long post (and sorry to contribute to the dumb thread) but there's a ton of snow out there and I'm bored inside the house with nothing better to do (and I'm sick of studying for today).

 

[bulletproof]

tuition money and time MD is the way for me!! its the gold prize of the health field,,,DO is good for some but MD from carib will still be gold but DO will always have to prove their worthiness

As other posters have noted, D.O.s have nothing to prove to anyone. The vast majority sit and take the USMLEs and those that do not at least take their COMLEX exams.Both options will lead to them becoming licenced competent physicians. It is useful to discuss the relative merits of both degrees for any prospective candidates interested in both paths to becoming a licenced physician. However, denigrating others chosen paths or questioning the validity of their degree ( in the face of glaring evidence to the contrary ) is childlike and not likely to win you any friends.

Oh, and the "gold prize" of the health field is graduating med. school with your sanity, non-disillusioned, non-embittered, with the residency of your choosing with ample time and money to enjoy everything in life that is not medicine. Good luck achieving that whichever path you choose

 

[Taus]

hey,

so in the heat of this stupid battle. I have to make a decision between st georges and NYCOM. Spell it out for me guy. Thanks.

opinions are just that...opinions....any of the DO vs. Caribb MD threads can give you all the opinions you want and more...

I suggest taking a look at the hospitals that the schools are affiliated w/ for years 3/4 and the match lists....thats the most concrete info that really exists...

 

[dr aaron]

I dreamed of being an M.D., i weighed the pro's of D.O. such as being able to stay in the states etc. and just decided that M.D. was what i really wanted deep down. THERE IN NOTHING WRONG WITH GOING TO A D.O. SCHOOL!! I read these posts and just laugh because I know that when these same people get into residency they will realize how foolish it was to waste your time on these boards with this silly debate.....so there is my two cents.........good luck to you all D.O. or M.D., and quit wasting time with these silly debates.

 

[uro]

I would also like to get some more info on this. I'm having a hard time deciding between Western COMP, SGU and Ross. When I read the osteopathic forum, and all the problems and issues they face, I start thinking that SGU or Ross might be better.

Like the current one in the osteopath forum about how bad the osteopathic residencies are. Scary.

 

[Shinken]

I would also like to get some more info on this. I'm having a hard time deciding between Western COMP, SGU and Ross. When I read the osteopathic forum, and all the problems and issues they face, I start thinking that SGU or Ross might be better.

Like the current one in the osteopath forum about how bad the osteopathic residencies are. Scary.

Do you believe everything you read in an anonymous forum? That's why I like to include links with some of my posts, to distinguish between BS and reality.

Anyway, yes, there are bad osteopathic residencies. You'd be surprised to know that there are also bad allopathic residencies. The trick is to choose wisely, visit the program, and taylor the program to your future career goals. If you want to do outpatient work, don't go to a huge academic program in a tertiary care hospital. If you want to teach in a med school or med school's hospital don't go to a small community hospital with no university affiliation.

Be wary of people in any forum that make broad, blanket statements. Do your own research and come up with the plan that best fits your needs. Besides, most of the people that post here have little idea of what they're talking about.

Is DO better for you? Then do it. Is Ross or SGU better for you? Then by all means, go for it.

After all this time I still get sucked into threads like these. Oh, well...it's like an addiction. I know it's a waste of time but it's so much fun! Good luck! I'm outta here!

 

[oldpro]

Having been accepted to a D.O. school, I can give you my insight. I dreamed of being an M.D., i weighed the pro's of D.O. such as being able to stay in the states etc. and just decided that M.D. was what i really wanted deep down. THERE IN NOTHING WRONG WITH GOING TO A D.O. SCHOOL!! I read these posts and just laugh because I know that when these same people get into residency they will realize how foolish it was to waste your time on these boards with this silly debate.....so there is my two cents..i was accepted to Ross, SMU and a U.S. D.O. school, in the end im here at SMU and i am very happy with my decision.......good luck to you all D.O. or M.D., and quit wasting time with these silly debates.

Funny but I started out saying this and I get wasted here. Look at the responses it becomes like a Bad presidential debate which is better Democrat Republican when you just about get the same thing with either screwed.

In this case there are different philosophy between them you just have to read about the differences and decide what you want. In the end your a DOC.

Later

 

[uro]

Do you believe everything you read in an anonymous forum? That's why I like to include links with some of my posts, to distinguish between BS and reality.

Anyway, yes, there are bad osteopathic residencies. You'd be surprised to know that there are also bad allopathic residencies. The trick is to choose wisely, visit the program, and taylor the program to your future career goals. If you want to do outpatient work, don't go to a huge academic program in a tertiary care hospital. If you want to teach in a med school or med school's hospital don't go to a small community hospital with no university affiliation.

Be wary of people in any forum that make broad, blanket statements. Do your own research and come up with the plan that best fits your needs. Besides, most of the people that post here have little idea of what they're talking about.

Is DO better for you? Then do it. Is Ross or SGU better for you? Then by all means, go for it.

After all this time I still get sucked into threads like these. Oh, well...it's like an addiction. I know it's a waste of time but it's so much fun! Good luck! I'm outta here!

Yeah, this is what I would like to get more of -- some facts.
1. Looking at the allopathic match results from the DO schools they seem much worse than the Big 3 caribbean schools.

2. And from what I'm learning about DO residencies, less than half of these fill and less than half of the osteopathic students even want them.

So, from these 2 facts it seems like the top 3 caribbean schools are better choices in terms of quality and competitive matches.

But, on the other hand, I would have to move out of the country for almost a year and a half. That makes it a tough choice.

 

[oldpro]

Yeah, this is what I would like to get more of -- some facts.
1. Looking at the allopathic match results from the DO schools they seem much worse than the Big 3 caribbean schools.

2. And from what I'm learning about DO residencies, less than half of these fill and less than half of the osteopathic students even want them.

So, from these 2 facts it seems like the top 3 caribbean schools are better choices in terms of quality and competitive matches.

But, on the other hand, I would have to move out of the country for almost a year and a half. That makes it a tough choice.

You know you have to move to the school in the US you get accepted to also, so I really see it as no different. You go back to the US during the breaks.

 

[wallstdoc]

Yeah, this is what I would like to get more of -- some facts.
1. Looking at the allopathic match results from the DO schools they seem much worse than the Big 3 caribbean schools.

2. And from what I'm learning about DO residencies, less than half of these fill and less than half of the osteopathic students even want them.

So, from these 2 facts it seems like the top 3 caribbean schools are better choices in terms of quality and competitive matches.

But, on the other hand, I would have to move out of the country for almost a year and a half. That makes it a tough choice.



A few things to comment on:

Could you back these "facts" up with something, a link, something like Shinken did? Isn't really a fact just because you said it, sorry.

"Less than half of DO residencies do not fill?" Really? I have never heard of that. Perhaps all the primary care residencies do not fill (what DOs traditionally concentrated on), but every other specialty fills, but please prove me wrong with FACTS.

"Allopathic match results"- Why is this really relevant? DOs have thier own residencies that allopathic students cant even apply to.

So for those looking at both carribbean and DO, just keep in mind, if you are a DO, you can apply to allopathic AND osteopathic residencies. MDs cant apply to osteopathic residencies, so that increases your chances too at a good residency.

And Uro, please reread Shinken's links. There is a reason these schools aren't universally accepted in the US. Think about it everyone...........

 

[oldpro]

Yeah, this is what I would like to get more of -- some facts.

So for those looking at both carribbean and DO, just keep in mind, if you are a DO, you can apply to allopathic AND osteopathic residencies. MDs cant apply to osteopathic residencies, so that increases your chances too at a good residency.

Please, not to start anything but you ignor the fact that there are MD residencies that will not match DO's I know this is true.

(I'm not Bashing DO's just want it told like it is)

 

[Shodddy18]

Please, not to start anything but you ignor the fact that there are MD residencies that will not match DO's I know this is true.

(I'm not Bashing DO's just want it told like it is)

Since we are telling it like it is, most of those same programs wont match IMGs either.

 

[oldpro]

Since we are telling it like it is, most of those same programs wont match IMGs either.

Well thats not true and a myth ( there are a few not most) , because around 6000 IMG/ FMG are in Residencies, not my numbers its straight from the match LOL

SO can you post all the programs who do not Match DO and IMG/ FMG? I can't I posted something I do know and do not deny that there are programs that do not Match FMG/IMG I have a problem with MOST.

 

[oldpro]

Oh another thing I'm not going to get into some silly debate over this, yes Caribbean grads have a tougher time matching into Competitive residencies so the US Grads can feel superior there congrats...........but the primary residencies are much less of a problem to match in,

and any appropriate candidate for a residency from the Caribbean that had the right Step one scores has been able to match in the last 2 years that I know of,
of course there are those who reached for a residency they could not possibly get and did not match, but they did that to themselves, sometimes you have to accept that you may not get the residency you want. ( you know sometimes US grads do the same thing and do not match either thats why there is a scramble it's just not for IMG and FMG's )

 

[monsoon338]

In the really looooooong scheme of things, it really does not matter what you do, MD, DO, Caribbean MD, MD somewhere else, whatever. Its like that song goes "What have you done for me lately? Ba da da duh oooo ooo ooo yeah!". No one cares what your high school GPA is when you're in college, no one cares what your college GPA is when you're in med school, no one cares what your med school GPA is when you're in residency, and no patient cares what school you went to when you're a practicing physician. In the end, all that matters is what have you learned, how good you treat patients, and how you carry yourself. Those are the most important things.

Maybe the MD licensure is recognized in more countries (Not fact, just thinking out loud), but the DO will get you where you want to go too.

The only thing this matters about is in regards to getting a good rotation/residency. I've heard that its easier to get a good residency as a DO rather than as a Caribbean MD. Of course thats a blanket statement. Comparing a DO from a top DO school vs a MD from a Caribbean med school that isn't in the Top 3 will get different results than comparing a Caribbean MD from one of the Top 3 vs a DO from a lesser ranked DO school.

The thing I honestly like about Ross is the flexibility to choose your rotation sites and thereby have a better chance at the residency at that site. For instance, I have a friend at the University of Oklahoma. His rotation site choices were all in Oklahoma and therefore he ended up doing his residency there. The same with the DO program. You most likely wind up doing your Cores at the local area hospitals. Thats one of the biggest attractions about Ross to me. If I wanted to go to NYC, I could. If I wanted to go to Chicago I could. They even allow you to pursue setting up your rotations on your own if you so choose. That flexibilty is very good and only for doing 16 months in the Caribbean you get to live in the area/city you want to.

 

[Shodddy18]

Well thats not true and a myth ( there are a few not most) , because around 6000 IMG/ FMG are in Residencies, not my numbers its straight from the match LOL

SO can you post all the programs who do not Match DO and IMG/ FMG? I can't I posted something I do know and do not deny that there are programs that do not Match FMG/IMG I have a problem with MOST.

I did not say that most programs wont match IMGs, I said that of the programs who will often will not accept DO's, the majority of THOSE programs will not match IMGs either.

And for the record, I'm not trying to argue with you, or start a fight or anything. I work with a fair number of IMG and FMG residents and have nothing against them. They are all great doctors and I am lucky to be able to learn from them. I dont think they are any better or worse, more or less smart, than DO's or US MDs. Im not saying that it is easier for DO's to match than IMGs, but dont dilute yourself into thinking the opposite. It is true that some programs will discriminate against DOs, but dont believe that these programs wont discriminate against IMGs either.

 

[oldpro]

I did not say that most programs wont match IMGs, I said that of the programs who will often will not accept DO's, the majority of THOSE programs will not match IMGs either.

And for the record, I'm not trying to argue with you, or start a fight or anything. I work with a fair number of IMG and FMG residents and have nothing against them. They are all great doctors and I am lucky to be able to learn from them. I dont think they are any better or worse, more or less smart, than DO's or US MDs. Im not saying that it is easier for DO's to match than IMGs, but dont dilute yourself into thinking the opposite. It is true that some programs will discriminate against DOs, but dont believe that these programs wont discriminate against IMGs either.

Yes I see what you are saying but it does not come off exactly that way. you see 3 years ago I decided to go offshore and have been reading these posts since then and through medschool, and I gotta tell you many people take pleasure in posting that Caribbean is not a good way to go to Medschool, that is really biased and untrue, in some ways it's just as good as other routes, but if you want to be a Plastic Surgeon or Vascular Surgeon or Neuro Surgeon, then I would not go to the Caribbean or if my GPA and MCAT prohibited US Acceptance then think about something else in medicine because these residencies are very hard to obtain without top Step one scores and even then it's hard, But primary care really doesn't matter that much, for now a Caribbean grad can pretty much get a residency in Primary care.

The reason I posted what I posted was not to say Caribbean grads have more residencies but to point out that DO may not have all of the MD residencies open to them also. Thats a valid point and your post seemed to me to try and overshadow that point, like a one upsmanship.

 

[Shodddy18]

Yes I see what you are saying but it does not come off exactly that way. you see 3 years ago I decided to go offshore and have been reading these posts since then and through medschool, and I gotta tell you many people take pleasure in posting that Caribbean is not a good way to go to Medschool, that is really biased and untrue, in some ways it's just as good as other routes, but if you want to be a Plastic Surgeon or Vascular Surgeon or Neuro Surgeon, then I would not go to the Caribbean or if my GPA and MCAT prohibited US Acceptance then think about something else in medicine because these residencies are very hard to obtain without top Step one scores and even then it's hard, But primary care really doesn't matter that much, for now a Caribbean grad can pretty much get a residency in Primary care.

The reason I posted what I posted was not to say Caribbean grads have more residencies but to point out that DO may not have all of the MD residencies open to them also. Thats a valid point and your post seemed to me to try and overshadow that point, like a one upsmanship.

I'm sorry you took my post that way. I did not mean any disrespect. I only know a handful of IMGs/FMG residents, but as I said they are all fantastic physicians. Med school is not a pleasant experience for anyone, so the added burden of having to live outside of the country, and jump through licensing hoops as a Caribbean student must make it much worse. This is unfortunate, but one thing I'm sure it means is that those who make it through the process must really want it bad and must have worked hard and sacrificed a lot to achieve their goals. This speaks to their good character and willingness to work hard. I think these two qualities are crucial to be a good physician. Competency can be achieved through reading a book and going to class and listening to lectures. It is unfortunate that Caribbean and Osteopathic medical schools are "seen as less prestigious" and graduates of these programs are "less highly respected." This does not bother me because I feel that practicing medicine is about the patient, not the provider. In my experience this lack of respect and or prestige has nothing to do with our patients and comes from a handful of our coleagues who are compensating for something .so that they may feel superior. Often these people are the same types that want to feel superior about anything they can and will look down on others for any reason they can find. The size of their house, price of their car etc. Some specialists will look down on primary care becuase they are jerks, and they can not fathom the fact that some of us may want to be family doctors It is a shame that some will discriminate against osteopaths like myself and IMGs like yourelf. As I said before, it is most unfortunate because it hurts the patients more than it hurts us. You sound like a hard worker, and I am sure you will make a excellent physician. The US definately needs more primary care physicians like you (and myself, appologise for tooting my own horn. ). I wish you the best of luck in your future!

 

[drbublu]

Look guys, I think its pretty obvious what the final criteria should be in making the decision. "Which graduate schools have the hottest ladies?" (and vice versa for my female friends reading this thread!)

 

[oldpro]

Can't we just let this thread DIE????? Please.................................

 

[neurodoc]

Can't we just let this thread DIE????? Please.................................

This thread has been lively and certainly contentious, but just because people have different and apparently emotionally charged opinions that some find irritating is not a good reason to shut it down.

Let me start by saying that I believe that all accredited US MD and DO schools provide adequate education for their graduates to persue ANY US residency training and subsequent US medical licensure. Let me also say many but not all FMG (including Carribean) MD schools can apply for US residency training and licensure, and they can produce good physicians.

The alleged "problem" with the international recognition of the DO degree does not apply to US DO's. Some non-US countries (e.g. in South America) have DO and MD programs that, unlike the case for the US, are not considered equivalent. I believe that, even in those countries, a US DO is recognized as an "MD," whereas a local DO is not. This makes the alleged "problem" a non-problem. (continued).

 

[neurodoc]

Some comment has been made that US DO's are at some sort of diasadvantage in applying for US residency and licensure compared to both US and foreign (including Carribean) MD's. As regards licensure, this is simply not true. USMG's (both DO and MD) have no problems and a much easier time getting licensed than FMG's. Many States (such as California) require three years of residency training before FMG's can be licensed, but only one year of residency training for USMG's.

Some Carribean schools (like SMU) are not even recognized for licensure by some States (California again). So, if you are an SMU graduate you are SOL if you want to do residency or practice in California. No accredited US MD or DO school has this problem. That may or may not be important to you, but it is a fact.

Opinions have been expressed that being an MD graduate of a Carribean school is somehow "better" than being a US DO when it comes to both US residency acceptances and some nebulous idea of the general "superiority" of the MD v. the DO. It seems to me that these opinions have not been supported with any verifiable data. What I've read are anecdotal claims that Carribean MD's have matched in NS and other competive specialties, or that DO's have also matched in similar programs. Such claims (and I don't doubt that they are true) are irrelevant. What would be more interesting to know is how many USMGs (DO and MD) fail to complete their degrees and/or fail to match in their desired programs compared to how many FMG's fail to complete their degress and/or match in their desired programs. Let me know if any of you has this data.

As regards why we do what we do, including why we chose to go to one medical school or another, I think it is fair to say that we all try to do what we consider to be in our best interests. The choice of a medical school involves financial considerations (cost), and other considerations (where we want to live, future career options, etc. A poster mentioned that he was acceptred at a US DO school but chose to go to a Carribean MD school. Presumably this choice was not based on the lesser expense (tuition and living costs) or the Carribean school. The costs of the Carribean school were at least equal to and likely greater than the costs of the US DO school. I presume that the poster was being truthful about the US DO acceptance and based the decision on the desire to earn the "more desireable" Carribean MD rather than the "less desireable" US DO, even though, as another poster pointed out, the SMU degree is not recognized in some US States.

In evaluating the various comments that have been posted on this thread, we must consider that there is a natural human tendency to rationalize the choices that we make in life. Frankly, if I had been a US pre-med and appled to and was rejected from all the US MD schools I aplied to, I would consider the US DO schools as a second choice. Actually, I would probably have applied to Carribean or other foreign MD schools as a third choice, mainly due to my desire to practice medicine in the US and my consideration of the relative ease of achieving that goal as a USMG v being an FMG.

But I recognize that others may make different choices. For example some may choose going to SMU over Harvard because they like the Carribean climate better (there certainly wouldn't be any advantage in cost or ease of subsequent residency and licensure in the US). Some may prefer SMU to NYCOM because they would much prefer having an MD to a DO or their preference for the climate of the Carribean (but again there is no cost advantage or advantage in achieving licensure in the mild climate of California...).

So go ahead and do whatever you want. Far be it from me to criticize your decisions.

Nick

 

[Pansit]

Neuro,

I also had to make a choice between US DO and Carribbean and after months of thinking it over, I came to the realization that the only advantage that the carribbean gave over the US DO was that it awarded the MD degree. A degree which is equal to the MD in rights and privileges. So to me, it came down to this: Was my final goal in life to obtain an MD degree or was my final goal in life to become a physican. I realize I wanted to become a physician over anything else and it made the decision a lot easier. Any arguments over residency and stigmas often went towards the DO side or were equal (stigma wise). So DO not only gave me the opportunity to achieve my goal, but provided a path much easier than the carribbean would have given me...But again this is my own personal experience. To some people, obtaining the "MD" is a much higher goal than anything else, and to others the carribbean might be easier b/c for other reasons (friends, "island life",...etc)

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Neuro,

I also had to make a choice between US DO and Carribbean and after months of thinking it over, I came to the realization that the only advantage that the carribbean gave over the US DO was that it awarded the MD degree. A degree which is equal to the MD in rights and privileges. So to me, it came down to this: Was my final goal in life to obtain an MD degree or was my final goal in life to become a physican. I realize I wanted to become a physician over anything else and it made the decision a lot easier. Any arguments over residency and stigmas often went towards the DO side or were equal (stigma wise). So DO not only gave me the opportunity to achieve my goal, but provided a path much easier than the carribbean would have given me...But again this is my own personal experience. To some people, obtaining the "MD" is a much higher goal than anything else, and to others the carribbean might be easier b/c for other reasons (friends, "island life",...etc)

The DO route is the easy way out....it's sort of the "cush" med school experience.

 

[uro]

The DO route is the easy way out....it's sort of the "cush" med school experience.

I'm not sure how much cushier or easier it is. I'd still have to learn cranial sacral/OMM for 2 years, have a hard time landing a competitive allopathic residency, and live with being a "D.O." for the remainder of my life....

I'm thinking 16-20 months in the caribbean, no cranial, a solid shot at competitive residencies, and "M.D." for the rest of my life might be much easier and cush.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I'm not sure how much cushier or easier it is. I'd still have to learn cranial sacral/OMM for 2 years, have a hard time landing a competitive allopathic residency, and live with being a "D.O." for the remainder of my life....

I'm thinking 16-20 months in the caribbean, no cranial, a solid shot at competitive residencies, and "M.D." for the rest of my life might be much easier and cush.

sorry buddy....but there is nothing close to "cush" when you have to live in a third world country....while studying to be a doctor.

 

[uro]

sorry buddy....but there is nothing close to "cush" when you have to live in a third world country....while studying to be a doctor.

Good point. Are you saying you'd choose DO over Ross/SGU? Those are, it appears, my only options this year. You went to Ross, no? Did you like it?

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Good point. Are you saying you'd choose DO over Ross/SGU? Those are, it appears, my only options this year. You went to Ross, no? Did you like it?

I am all about going the most difficult way with the most obstacles to get the MD!

I dont regret anything....and it's going to feel so good at the end of this month when I get my degree and match into my top 5 university program (no DO's at any of them).

If you want to get into Urology...you have a better shot at it with a DO!

 

[uro]

I am all about going the most difficult way with the most obstacles to get the MD!

I dont regret anything....and it's going to feel so good at the end of this month when I get my degree and match into my top 5 university program (no DO's at any of them).

If you want to get into Urology...you have a better shot at it with a DO!

Nice work, Shah. Congrats on the university interviews. And good luck in the match.

I'm all over Uro, but I don't want osteo Uro, if such a thing even exists. I want an allopathic residency. I've talked to a few uro residents, and they said DO will pretty much end my chances at allo uro. They also said it would be an uphill battle from SGU or Ross, but a significantly better shot than from any DO school. Have you heard something different?

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Nice work, Shah. Congrats on the university interviews. And good luck in the match.

I'm all over Uro, but I don't want osteo Uro, if such a thing even exists. I want an allopathic residency. I've talked to a few uro residents, and they said DO will pretty much end my chances at allo uro. They also said it would be an uphill battle from SGU or Ross, but a significantly better shot than from any DO school. Have you heard something different?

there are less than 300 spots in the country. out which around 10 go to international grads....none of which are ross/st.georges in the last 10 years. I personally have a friend who got in this year (january 07)....she is a genius and is at a US allopathic school. I am very aware of the caliber of applicants who get these well deserved spots.

I think u have a better (still almost impossible) shot with a US DO degree than a caribbean school...only for uro and derm.

Anything else...DO=MD to gain an allopathic residency. THat's my 2 cents....the choice is yours. Good Luck!

 

[awdc]

I agree with Shah Patel, you'll have a better shot at uro if you're from a DO school as opposed to being from Ross or SGU. Pretty much the same goes for any competitive specialty like ortho, radiology, maybe even EM. However, Ross has been working out for me so far and I applied for EM. All that's left is match day.

 

[uro]

there are less than 300 spots in the country. out which around 10 go to international grads....none of which are ross/st.georges in the last 10 years. I personally have a friend who got in this year (january 07)....she is a genius and is at a US allopathic school. I am very aware of the caliber of applicants who get these well deserved spots.

I think u have a better (still almost impossible) shot with a US DO degree than a caribbean school...only for uro and derm.

Anything else...DO=MD to gain an allopathic residency. THat's my 2 cents....the choice is yours. Good Luck!

So how many DO's got uro in the past 10 years? I know the avg for DO's landing allopathic derm is ~0-1/year.