Why didnt you choose a DO school instead?

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So how many DO's got uro in the past 10 years? I know the avg for DO's landing allopathic derm is ~0-1/year.

Not sure about the numbers but you have to understand that the statistics of how many DO's are in competitive allopathic residencies are somewhat skewed. Almost any DO that wants to enter a very competitive residency will apply to both the osteopathic and allopathic match because of the great deal of competition. Now, any DO who matches into an osteopathic residency will automatically be dropped out of the allopathic match (which is why some DO's will skip the osteo match all together). Now after the osteopathic match, the only DO's that remain will be the less competitive DO's, because all the competive applicants (high step 1 scores, grades, Lors..etc) would have matched in the osteopathic residency. So it is unlikely that the remaning DO's will outcompete their allopathic counterparts. So you cant really compare the number of DO's vs. the number of IMG's in certain specialities because they go through a different process of matching. If you took out a majority of the competitive IMG applicants before the match, IMG's would have lower numbers matching into competitive allopathic residencies as well

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there are less than 300 spots in the country. out which around 10 go to international grads....none of which are ross/st.georges in the last 10 years.

This site should only allow members to post who back up their statments with facts....

The following is a few of the match results from SGU from 2001-2006:

2001
Opthalmology - 1
Ortho - 1
Rad - 3
Neuro - 6

2002
Urology - 1
Rad - 2
Neuro - 3

2003
Neuro - 2
Ophthalmology - 1
Ortho - 1

2004
Neurosurg - 1
Plastics - 1
Rad - 4
Neuro - 5
Ortho - 2

2005
Neurosurg - 1
Neuro - 5
Rad - 4

2006
Neuro - 9
Rad - 5
Neurosurg - 2
Opthalmology - 2
Derm - 1
Urology - 1

There were many other matches in EM, Physical Med and Rehab, Anethesiology, Surgery, Pediatrics, Pathology, Psychiatry, Ob/Gyn and many in internal med (who can go on to do fellowships later in things such as gastroenterology). Go to www.sgu.edu and search for "residency". You'll get a clearer picture of the facts!!
 
[2005
Neurosurg - 1
Neuro - 5
Rad - 4

2006
Neuro - 9
Rad - 5
Neurosurg - 2
Opthalmology - 2
Derm - 1
Urology - 1

Go to www.sgu.edu and search for "residency". You'll get a clearer picture of the facts!!

I hate to bring this up, but according to the website, there are about 325 students matriculating twice a year (August and January). So basically, in a graduating class of 325 (or 650?) there were only 20 students that matched in those specialties in 2006 and only 10 in 2005?!?

Those are almost the same number of people that match each year into those specialties (whether in allo or osteo programs) from my school, and we only have 110 students graduate each year.

Don't look at the raw numbers, look at the percent placement. SGU is a good school, no doubt, but when you're one in a class of 325, will you be the one to stand out?
 
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This site should only allow members to post who back up their statments with facts....

The following is a few of the match results from SGU from 2001-2006:

2001
Opthalmology - 1
Ortho - 1
Rad - 3
Neuro - 6

2002
Urology - 1
Rad - 2
Neuro - 3

2003
Neuro - 2
Ophthalmology - 1
Ortho - 1

2004
Neurosurg - 1
Plastics - 1
Rad - 4
Neuro - 5
Ortho - 2

2005
Neurosurg - 1
Neuro - 5
Rad - 4

2006
Neuro - 9
Rad - 5
Neurosurg - 2
Opthalmology - 2
Derm - 1
Urology - 1

There were many other matches in EM, Physical Med and Rehab, Anethesiology, Surgery, Pediatrics, Pathology, Psychiatry, Ob/Gyn and many in internal med (who can go on to do fellowships later in things such as gastroenterology). Go to www.sgu.edu and search for "residency". You'll get a clearer picture of the facts!!


There are very few in the caribbean schools who are there by mistake. I mean they really qualify for U.S schools, but whatever reason wind up there. I remeber one girl at ROSS of the East Asian descent, who was very bright, and ghot into U MICH allo school. But she felt that her parents were really overbearing, and micromanaged every aspect of her life, including personal. So she just went to ROSS. Also I remember one young couple...she did get in U.S, he didn't...so, they didn't want to wait and just went to ROSS together. The saddest part is that they broke up like 2 months later. But those are the exceptions who also wind up being an exceptions in the match. There are actually very few people who transfer to U.S schools each year. Or just drop out from Carib and start from scratch in U.S, BTW, including the D.O school. I knew one guy who left ROSS after less then two months into the FALL semester, who's got acceptance to a D.O school for the (next!) not the same year. So, he was willing to wait a whole year to get a D.O after his name rather than MD from ROSS, as some of you will view it. He was about 28 y.o. But those are personal choices. I think some of you get caught up in this MD vs D.O way too much. You don't live in the 1950s. If your goal is to practice in U.S then American vs Foreign is always better, with very few and far between exceptions. And believe me, almost everyone goes to the Caribbean thinking they are going to be the exception, that the World was unjustly cruel to them, and that they'll prove everybody wrongand beat all odds. Well...yeah.....some do, but unfortunately many don't.
 
I hate to bring this up, but according to the website, there are about 325 students matriculating twice a year (August and January). So basically, in a graduating class of 325 (or 650?) there were only 20 students that matched in those specialties in 2006 and only 10 in 2005?!?

Those are almost the same number of people that match each year into those specialties (whether in allo or osteo programs) from my school, and we only have 110 students graduate each year.

Don't look at the raw numbers, look at the percent placement. SGU is a good school, no doubt, but when you're one in a class of 325, will you be the one to stand out?

I have enough Urine to join in this Match...................


Why is it always the Competitive Residencies? It's like a broken record, I did not go to medschool to be a surgeon Or Derm or Radiologist........I would be bored to tears, I wanted RURAL FP and there are others like me who want IM and PEDS whats wrong with that? I guess whats wrong is you can't Argue that much over it.
 
I hate to bring this up, but according to the website, there are about 325 students matriculating twice a year (August and January). So basically, in a graduating class of 325 (or 650?) there were only 20 students that matched in those specialties in 2006 and only 10 in 2005?!?

Those are almost the same number of people that match each year into those specialties (whether in allo or osteo programs) from my school, and we only have 110 students graduate each year.

Don't look at the raw numbers, look at the percent placement. SGU is a good school, no doubt, but when you're one in a class of 325, will you be the one to stand out?

Apparently you totally missed the point of my post....it had absolutely nothing to do with posting those figures for the sake of posting....it was in response to the no one from SGU matched into Urology in over 10 years comment....you can clearly see that is a total fabrication since I don't know about you but i see 2 in the last 5 years that have.....also, i put the other figures of competitive residency placements up for those on this thread that continue to ask over and over about competitive residencies....it had nothing to do with comparing one school over another....so why you would even make a comment like above is beyond me.
 
We all know it isnt too difficult or more difficult to get into a DO school than it is to get into the top 3 carib med schools. For those who had the stats, opportunity and chance to get accepted into a DO school, what was the real reason you chose a MD carib over a DO school? Be honest, was it just the letters and title or was it something else. I am just curious to see the range of responses based on a individual bases.

I interviewed at Ross on a Friday and was accepted the following Monday. I don't know what that says about their standards but, eh, they couldn't have looked that hard at my application aside from, "can he pay for it?" I don't mean to start a war but, some of you have said that the international practice rights of DOs are crap. We may not be able to practice in every country yet, but, that is changing every day. My own school, DMU, does medical mission trips to other countries where DOs can practice. Anyways, half the reason we CAN'T practice in other countries is exposure: not everyone knows exactly what a DO is. Check out the sticky on the Pre-DO forum for every country we currently have rights in and I think you will be surprised. As for the whole "MD VS DO" crap, that is only a pre-med. term. In real life, doctors are doctors, MD and DO aside. If you choose to go to some island to learn medicine because you want that title after your name than more power to you. For me, I think I will stay here and get fat off American food :D . As the person who interviewed me for Ross said, "enjoy the fish..." :p
 
I don't mean to start a war but, some of you have said that the international practice rights of DOs are crap. We may not be able to practice in every country yet, but, that is changing every day. :p

How is Truth Crap? I know everyone likes to "Cheerlead" here, but the truth is the truth and what you said changing everyday then why can't DO's practice in all countries Yesterday? Because it does not change everyday, look at Caribbean posts from 4 years back they say the same thing...........and yet there are still the same old problems. Really its bad to cheerlead, just discuss the facts, every time I do theres a pissing contest here..................:luck:
 
how come there are threads like this in the caribbean's forum but not one about caribbean MDs in the DO forum????????
 
how come there are threads like this in the caribbean's forum but not one about caribbean MDs in the DO forum????????

May be not at the moment, but they always pop up on all forums. Sometimes indirectly. Just do a search. You'll see 100s of them. The problem is they never provide any real info, and turn into flame and pi$$ing contest invariably.
There is no real data that could tell you X vs Y vs Z is the way to go. I'm pretty sure that most will agree that getting in US/Canadian allo schools is the best route for anything you want to do in medicine. The rest is just a pure premed crap talk, based on hearsay "evidence"
 
D.Os not being able to practice abroad is a fundamentally flawd arguement. If a U.S trained physician (M.D or D.O) wants to practice for the U.S interests abroad (emabassy, millitary, CIA etc) doesn't make any diference. If your goal is to practice in some foreign country then U.S allo degree could be just as useless as a D.O. Many countries have a surplus of physicians trained in their own model. Americans are foreigners to them...wether MD or D.O. And why would someone go to med school in U.S or a pseudo-American school in the Carib, paying top buck to only practice somewhere else? If that's your goal, I'd say look into the option of studying inthe country where you intend to practice. It nay be free, or for a nominal fee. And if you ever decide to practice in U.S the practice is pretty much the same for all. Gotta pass all the USMLE (s), and get ECFMG cert.

hope it helps.
 
How is Truth Crap? I know everyone likes to "Cheerlead" here, but the truth is the truth and what you said changing everyday then why can't DO's practice in all countries Yesterday? Because it does not change everyday, look at Caribbean posts from 4 years back they say the same thing...........and yet there are still the same old problems. Really its bad to cheerlead, just discuss the facts, every time I do theres a pissing contest here..................:luck:

It is called an expression chief and it does not mean a lack of truth. For all I know we were granted rights to practice in Simtanbim (yes, I just made that up) yesterday. I don't know because, I really don't want to practice in Simtanbim or anywhere else outside the U.S. I do know FOR A FACT, that the DO international practice rights were just updated as of 3/06 you should check them out.
 
It is called an expression chief and it does not mean a lack of truth. For all I know we were granted rights to practice in Simtanbim (yes, I just made that up) yesterday. I don't know because, I really don't want to practice in Simtanbim or anywhere else outside the U.S. I do know FOR A FACT, that the DO international practice rights were just updated as of 3/06 you should check them out.
Not that I really care that much but DO's can fully practice all over the world now as MD's do?

It's that simple. :confused:

( I'm a MD student at a WHO listed school I really do not care about a list since it's not a concern for me)

Oh and I'm part American Indian I think your post is a little offensive
 
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how come there are threads like this in the caribbean's forum but not one about caribbean MDs in the DO forum????????
original posted thought this was a good subject I disagree since people can't help to degrade the other like the poster who called me "Chief" since I'm part American Indian I think its offensive :smuggrin:
 
Not that I really care that much but DO's can fully practice all over the world now as MD's do?

It's that simple. :confused:

( I'm a MD student at a WHO listed school I really do not care about a list since it's not a concern for me)

Oh and I'm part American Indian I think your post is a little offensive

You cared enough to spend the time to write a response, I guess, deep down, you really do care :love: .

Oh and I have no clue who you are in real life. For all I know you are part Martian too. If you are going to take every known expression offensively, I wouldn't plan on leaving your house; the outside world is cruel...
 
Not that I really care that much but DO's can fully practice all over the world now as MD's do?

I posted this question in another forum, and I'm hoping you have the answer. I keep track of the international practice rights FAQ for DO's. I've been looking for a list of international practice rights for USMDs. Do you know where I can find one? People assume that the USMD is good all over the world, and I'm trying to find a definitive list that proves this.
 
original posted thought this was a good subject I disagree since people can't help to degrade the other like the poster who called me "Chief" since I'm part American Indian I think its offensive :smuggrin:

I call a lot of people chief look at some of my pasts posts; its called an EXPRESSION. Oh and by the way, two of my friends, both of which happen to be 50% American Indian, don't mind, have fun.
 
tuition money and time MD is the way for me!! its the gold prize of the health field,,,DO is good for some but MD from carib will still be gold but DO will always have to prove their worthiness

Medical Classes are medical classes. Unless your taking basic sciences at the University of Phenoix Online, I think the USMLE score says it all. And that crap about people being able to pass the USMLE but not being ready to be a doctor? Medicine is medicine and if you score good you obviously know some stuff... I would say top 3 Carribean as good as average U.S. M.D. but without research... As for D.O.? I think Chiropractors and D.O.'s are the same but D.O.'s have extra benifits. Look at Lombard Illinois Chiropractor program. They basically have an M.D. ciriculumn. So that makes Chiro's, D.O.'s, FMG's and US M.D.'s the basically the same give or take a semester or two.
 
I posted this question in another forum, and I'm hoping you have the answer. I keep track of the international practice rights FAQ for DO's. I've been looking for a list of international practice rights for USMDs. Do you know where I can find one? People assume that the USMD is good all over the world, and I'm trying to find a definitive list that proves this.

I understand what you are asking and I have no clue as to Universal
Guidelines, to me DO should have it as well as MD's I think too many want to fight when really just facts are all that are needed.

This I do know MBBS and MD are the standards for a Doctor around the World and in each Country around the world they recognize MD and MBBS as the standard (Just like O2 is Oxygen) ( please I'm not saying DO is not in a lot of countries and that DO is not the same as MD basically talking about everywhere around the world here) but as far as Practicing there are different requirements and Hoops to jump through, One thing can be said here , Name one country that only DO is accepted to practice medicine? I cannot think of one.....................................:confused:
 
D.Os not being able to practice abroad is a fundamentally flawd arguement. If a U.S trained physician (M.D or D.O) wants to practice for the U.S interests abroad (emabassy, millitary, CIA etc) doesn't make any diference. If your goal is to practice in some foreign country then U.S allo degree could be just as useless as a D.O. Many countries have a surplus of physicians trained in their own model. Americans are foreigners to them...wether MD or D.O. And why would someone go to med school in U.S or a pseudo-American school in the Carib, paying top buck to only practice somewhere else? If that's your goal, I'd say look into the option of studying inthe country where you intend to practice. It nay be free, or for a nominal fee. And if you ever decide to practice in U.S the practice is pretty much the same for all. Gotta pass all the USMLE (s), and get ECFMG cert.

hope it helps.

completely agreed here. If your ultimately goal is the U.S. you should not be worried about international practice rights. And just because you have an "MD" does not mean you are automatically guaranteed practice rights anyway. Every country is different and must be researched thoroughly. I think Singapore (not sure here) will only accept MD's that have graduated from these 5 specific schools, so if you came from the 120 other allo schools you are out of luck. It's not universal, you have to jump loops and holes whether you are a MD or DO. It's only a matter of time anyway when DO's will get internationally recognize. The AOA have just recently began working with the Who for recognition. I can't see a reason as to why DO's would get denied full rights when the education is similar to US allo's and I would say even better than plenty of foreign schools who are already recognized.
 
I understand what you are asking and I have no clue as to Universal
Guidelines, to me DO should have it as well as MD's I think too many want to fight when really just facts are all that are needed.

This I do know MBBS and MD are the standards for a Doctor around the World and in each Country around the world they recognize MD and MBBS as the standard (Just like O2 is Oxygen) ( please I'm not saying DO is not in a lot of countries and that DO is not the same as MD basically talking about everywhere around the world here) but as far as Practicing there are different requirements and Hoops to jump through, One thing can be said here , Name one country that only DO is accepted to practice medicine? I cannot think of one.....................................:confused:

Well, that's not really the question I was asking. The question I was asking is there a list that I, or anyone else, can look at, compare to the list of the DO international practice rights, and say "Yes, the USMD is accepted in more countries." I have no doubt that the USMD *is* accepted in more foreign countries, but I - nor anyone else, it seems, seems to know to how great an extent that is. It could be a couple more countries - it could be double. No one knows. And I'm pretty sure it's far from an automatic, universal acceptance.

So, unless someone has a site that they can point to to confirm this, I wouldn't make statements such as 'MD = universal acceptance'. It does a great disservice to misinform people that way.
 
...................

So, unless someone has a site that they can point to to confirm this, I wouldn't make statements such as 'MD = universal acceptance'. It does a great disservice to misinform people that way.

Oh come on that is not a valid argument, MD's are found in every country of the world and you want someone to now create some web site for proof to prove that? Look I agree that there are silly things that Keep DO's out of some countries but you are really going out on a limb to say I'm misinforming People that MD would be accepted universally around the world, really it's demeaning for you to say that.

You do not need a Web site for this.............

Name one country that MD is not accepted in some way ( in any way they have rules) for practice of Medicine and I will grant you are right.
:smuggrin:


(I thought Mods were supposed to post helpful info?)
 
Oh come on that is not a valid argument, MD's are found in every country of the world and you want someone to now create some web site for proof to prove that? Look I agree that there are silly things that Keep DO's out of some countries but you are really going out on a limb to say I'm misinforming People that MD would be accepted universally around the world, really it's demeaning for you to say that.

You do not need a Web site for this.............

Name one country that MD is not accepted in some way ( in any way they have rules) for practice of Medicine and I will grant you you are right.
:smuggrin:


(I thought Mods were supposed to post helpful info?)

I think you are confusing the fact that an MD from India and an MD from the US are the same, when they are universally not. An MD from India might not be accepted in one country, while an MD from US might be and vice versa. As someone has already posted a link to, the school in which you get your MD degree from the US is a basis for qualification in singapore. They only accept MD's that have graduated from 42 specific schools. So if you graduated from UIC, USC, Rosalind Franklin...whatever, it is not universally accepted in singapore. So it is a bit misleading to just state that any MD is universally accepted. It's not the letters that matter, it is where and how you get the letters that matter. Any podunk school can give out MD degrees and doesnt mean it is universally accepted.
Here is the link again if you missed it:

http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html
 
I think you are confusing the fact that an MD from India and an MD from the US are the same, when they are universally not. An MD from India might not be accepted in one country, while an MD from US might be and vice versa. As someone has already posted a link to, the school in which you get your MD degree from the US is a basis for qualification in singapore. They only accept MD's that have graduated from 42 specific schools. So if you graduated from UIC, USC, Rosalind Franklin...whatever, it is not universally accepted in singapore. So it is a bit misleading to just state that any MD is universally accepted. It's not the letters that matter, it is where and how you get the letters that matter. Any podunk school can give out MD degrees and doesnt mean it is universally accepted.
Here is the link again if you missed it:

http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html

LOL why argue I SAID MD not India, not Bangledesh not USA I said conditions to be fullfilled, but like others you will blindly argue till blue over silly stuff. Sure there are limitations like California has requirements for FMG schools to be on the list, Boy I said simply show me ONE COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT ALLOW MD's to practice medicine. Notice I did not make distinction MD's from where.......you did to argue.
:laugh:

My post repeated simple and to the point........

Name one country that MD is not accepted in some way ( in any way they have rules) for practice of Medicine and I will grant you are right.

Notice "In any way they have rules" I did not list nor intend to list schools excluded, by your own admission the answer is THE COUNTRIES DO ACCEPT MD's in one way or another....nothing has been proved by you.:laugh:
 
I think you are confusing the fact that an MD from India and an MD from the US are the same, when they are universally not. An MD from India might not be accepted in one country, while an MD from US might be and vice versa. As someone has already posted a link to, the school in which you get your MD degree from the US is a basis for qualification in singapore. They only accept MD's that have graduated from 42 specific schools. So if you graduated from UIC, USC, Rosalind Franklin...whatever, it is not universally accepted in singapore. So it is a bit misleading to just state that any MD is universally accepted. It's not the letters that matter, it is where and how you get the letters that matter. Any podunk school can give out MD degrees and doesnt mean it is universally accepted.
Here is the link again if you missed it:

http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html


As always when the Argument is silly people act too fast, did you read the page you linked as proof that Indian MD's are not accepted? Because it says they are look again..........


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Registrable Basic Medical Degrees
Medical Schools in Bold are new additions to the Schedule w.e.f 1 Aug 2006



Country


Body Granting Qualifications

Australia




1


Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Adelaide

2


School of Medicine, Faculty of Health Sciences, The Flinders University of South Australia

3


Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry and Health Sciences, University of Melbourne

4


Faculty of Medicine, Nursing and Health Sciences, Monash University

5


School of Medicine and Public Health, University of Newcastle

6


Faculty of Medicine, University of New South Wales

7


Faculty of Health Sciences, The University of Queensland Medical School

8


Faculty of Medicine, University of Sydney

9


Faculty of Health Science, University of Tasmania

10


Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, University of Western Australia

Austria


11


Medizinische Universitat Wien

12


Medizinische Universitat Innsbruck

Belgium


13


Katholieke Universiteit Leuven

Canada


14


Faculty of Medicine, University of British Columbia

15


Faculty of Medicine, McGill University

16


Faculty of Health Sciences, McMaster University

17


Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Ottawa

18


Faculty of Medicine, Queen's Univeristy

19


Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto

20


Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry, University of Western Ontario

21


Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, University of Alberta

22


Faculte de Medecine, Universite de Montreal

23


College of Medicine, University of Saskatchewan

Denmark


24


Aarhus Universitet

Finland


25


University of Helsinki

France


26


Universite de Louis Pasteur

27


Univ Pierre et Marie Curie (Paris VI), Broussais-hotel-dieu

Germany


28


Ruprecht-Karls-Universitaet Heidelberg

29


Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Munchen

30


Charite-Universitatsmedizin Berlin

31


Johann-Wolfgang-Goethe-Universitaet Frankfurt

Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Peoples' Republic of China


32


Faculty of Medicine, Chinese University of Hong Kong

33


Li Ka Shing Faculty of Medicine, University of Hong Kong

India


34


All-India Institute of Medical Sciences

35


Christian Medical College, Vellore

Ireland


36


Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Dublin (Trinity College)

37


Faculty of Medicine, National University of Ireland, University College Cork

38


Faculty of Medicine, National University of Ireland, University of College Dublin

39


Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences, National University of Ireland, Galway

40


School of Medicine, Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (National University of Ireland)
 
As always when the Argument is silly people act too fast, did you read the page you linked as proof that Indian MD's are not accepted? Because it says they are look again..........

I think what they are saying is that if you leave the US and go to some country, will YOU be granted full practice rights with a US MD without a fight? I think you realize that is what they are trying to ask but you are just avoiding the question. Instead you are getting defensive and lashing out at people for no reason. I think this conversation went sour as soon as you entered it. As for the others that posted those comments above, I see what you mean and I think that, in some countries, it would be just as much of a fight for a US MD to get full practice rights as a US DO.
 
I love how the argument is about practice rights in countries that I wouldn't even consider visiting. As long as you can get full practice rights in every English speaking country (which DO's can, now with England) that is all that should matter.

Oldpro you know you going to be successfull and you know you going to be working with us in the future so why argue about pointless premed crap?
 
I think what they are saying is that if you leave the US and go to some country, will YOU be granted full practice rights with a US MD without a fight? I think you realize that is what they are trying to ask but you are just avoiding the question. Instead you are getting defensive and lashing out at people for no reason. I think this conversation went sour as soon as you entered it. As for the others that posted those comments above, I see what you mean and I think that, in some countries, it would be just as much of a fight for a US MD to get full practice rights as a US DO.

What has happened is I posted real facts and truth, I'm a Caribbean Second year, Many others on SDN, like to belittle the Caribbean students, You now insult me, I have a right to discuss this, I know what I'm talking about and it's clearly the DO's here who have the chip on the shoulder and as soon as they joined and started making inaccurate statements is when it when south,

GO on believing what you will but it does not change reality.

The post asked for a list for countries that accept MD and I said MD is accepted in every country, then an argument of how that is is giving out bad advice, look you all can twist it anyway you want but this is the Caribbean forum and to come on here and tell us that an MD degree is not accepted around the world because there is no list or what ever is just plain silly and wasting our time, why not just go back to the DO forums....................:luck:

I think you are right I need to just stop now I have said what needed to be said good luck I'm practicing in the Southern US for the rest of my life anyway...............................
 
I love how the argument is about practice rights in countries that I wouldn't even consider visiting. As long as you can get full practice rights in every English speaking country (which DO's can, now with England) that is all that should matter.

Oldpro you know you going to be successfull and you know you going to be working with us in the future so why argue about pointless premed crap?

I know I need to stop worrying about sill things and study I graduate Basic science is 4 weeks!!!! :laugh:
 
Ok..i understand that there seems to be some confusion Old Pro.The Indian thing was just an example, not a fact I was trying to state and corroborate with the website. All I am saying is that, yes the "MD" is the most known medical degree around the world, but, it does not mean you will be able to universally practice with that everywhere. You will not be accepted automatically just because you have an "MD". The website alone proves that some countries are picky about where your MD degree came from. That is all I am trying to state.I am just trying to give an example to disprove this quote that you made:


"Name one country that MD is not accepted in some way ( in any way they have rules) for practice of Medicine and I will grant you are right."


So in singapore at least, an MD from 80 allopathic US schools and Carribbean schools are not universally accepted.
I hope that sorta clears up the misunderstanding.
 
Ok..i understand that there seems to be some confusion Old Pro.The Indian thing was just an example, not a fact I was trying to state and corroborate with the website. All I am saying is that, yes the "MD" is the most known medical degree around the world, but, it does not mean you will be able to universally practice with that everywhere. You will not be accepted automatically just because you have an "MD". The website alone proves that some countries are picky about where your MD degree came from. That is all I am trying to state.I am just trying to give an example to disprove this quote that you made:


"Name one country that MD is not accepted in some way ( in any way they have rules) for practice of Medicine and I will grant you are right."


So in singapore at least, an MD from 80 allopathic US schools and Carribbean schools are not universally accepted.
I hope that sorta clears up the misunderstanding.

Well to be honest I really do not like to fight really, I think the combo of being away from family and how hard medschool is together on an Island just gets to one a little.

Also I don't mind what you just posted sure its true and I back anything proved good or bad, in the end it's not about good or bad but what is reality, thats what we should share many new people, premeds do not understand the realities and when we take swipes at each other they believe everything posted at times.

I really wish these forums could be more professional :thumbup:
 
This site should only allow members to post who back up their statments with facts....

The following is a few of the match results from SGU from 2001-2006:

2001
Opthalmology - 1
Ortho - 1
Rad - 3
Neuro - 6

2002
Urology - 1
Rad - 2
Neuro - 3

2003
Neuro - 2
Ophthalmology - 1
Ortho - 1

2004
Neurosurg - 1
Plastics - 1
Rad - 4
Neuro - 5
Ortho - 2

2005
Neurosurg - 1
Neuro - 5
Rad - 4

2006
Neuro - 9
Rad - 5
Neurosurg - 2
Opthalmology - 2
Derm - 1
Urology - 1

There were many other matches in EM, Physical Med and Rehab, Anethesiology, Surgery, Pediatrics, Pathology, Psychiatry, Ob/Gyn and many in internal med (who can go on to do fellowships later in things such as gastroenterology). Go to www.sgu.edu and search for "residency". You'll get a clearer picture of the facts!!


Neurology is NOT a competitive specialty. That cuts these numbers almost in half.
 
Not that I really care that much but DO's can fully practice all over the world now as MD's do?

It's that simple. :confused:

( I'm a MD student at a WHO listed school I really do not care about a list since it's not a concern for me)

Oh and I'm part American Indian I think your post is a little offensive

First of all, I am pretty sure I detect sarcasm in your saying you find the previous post offensive. Secondly, why is it so chic to say you are part American Indian (apparently the new PC term)? If you are not at least 1/2, you don't look AI and nobody cares.
 
The post asked for a list for countries that accept MD and I said MD is accepted in every country,

I'm asking you, plainly, and nicely, how do you know that the MD is accepted in every country. There are so many different schools, that I can simplify this even more: is the MD from your school accepted in every country?
 
There are very few in the caribbean schools who are there by mistake. I mean they really qualify for U.S schools, but whatever reason wind up there. I remeber one girl at ROSS of the East Asian descent, who was very bright, and ghot into U MICH allo school. But she felt that her parents were really overbearing, and micromanaged every aspect of her life, including personal. So she just went to ROSS. Also I remember one young couple...she did get in U.S, he didn't...so, they didn't want to wait and just went to ROSS together. The saddest part is that they broke up like 2 months later. But those are the exceptions who also wind up being an exceptions in the match. There are actually very few people who transfer to U.S schools each year. Or just drop out from Carib and start from scratch in U.S, BTW, including the D.O school. I knew one guy who left ROSS after less then two months into the FALL semester, who's got acceptance to a D.O school for the (next!) not the same year. So, he was willing to wait a whole year to get a D.O after his name rather than MD from ROSS, as some of you will view it. He was about 28 y.o. But those are personal choices. I think some of you get caught up in this MD vs D.O way too much. You don't live in the 1950s. If your goal is to practice in U.S then American vs Foreign is always better, with very few and far between exceptions. And believe me, almost everyone goes to the Caribbean thinking they are going to be the exception, that the World was unjustly cruel to them, and that they'll prove everybody wrongand beat all odds. Well...yeah.....some do, but unfortunately many don't.

About the first part I put in bold: I am not sure why it matters what her descent is. Also, if that is truly the decision she made, she made a very poor, woefully mis-informed one.

About the second part in bold: very true, very sad. These schools are just big, fat cash cows.
 
Medical Classes are medical classes. Unless your taking basic sciences at the University of Phenoix Online, I think the USMLE score says it all. And that crap about people being able to pass the USMLE but not being ready to be a doctor? Medicine is medicine and if you score good you obviously know some stuff... I would say top 3 Carribean as good as average U.S. M.D. but without research... As for D.O.? I think Chiropractors and D.O.'s are the same but D.O.'s have extra benifits. Look at Lombard Illinois Chiropractor program. They basically have an M.D. ciriculumn. So that makes Chiro's, D.O.'s, FMG's and US M.D.'s the basically the same give or take a semester or two.

Ok, I just have to be contentious again.

The quality of your education has more to do with you and the time you are willing to put in than what school you go to. So I would have to say that for equal students in terms of intelligence and work-ethic USMD=DO=IMG for quality of education. I will not even include chiroQuaktic. Chiropractors have their place, I just wish they would stay there.

When looking to get into allopathic residencies: USMD>DO>IMG

Once in practice: USMD=IMG=DO

So, if you have to have the MD, go to a foreign school, just know you have more of an uphill battle than DOs when applying for residency in competitive specialties. If you want a competitive specialty and won't mind being DO instead of MD (nobody else will care), go to a DO school.

Another point: DO and USMD schools want all of their MS1s to be grads someday, this is NOT true for caribbean schools. They want you there for at least 2 weeks so they can lock in that first semester tuition payment in full.
 
About the first part I put in bold: I am not sure why it matters what her descent is. Also, if that is truly the decision she made, she made a very poor, woefully mis-informed one.

About the second part in bold: very true, very sad. These schools are just big, fat cash cows.

Well, she was the one bringing her descent and culture up. It certainly didn't matter to me. But she pretty much ran away from her home. This kinds of clushes between parents who come from the old country and their American or Americanized kids are not that rare. But, I guess in that particular ethnic group it's much more expressed. Heck, I'm an immigrant myself, though from Europe. I already see how my own daughter, who was born in U.S, is different from the culture I was growing up in. not saying good or bad....just different And some things that she does and says are even more "shocking" to her grandparents. But she is a good kid, just different from what we knew back in a day.

Hope it clears up this matter.
 
I'm asking you, plainly, and nicely, how do you know that the MD is accepted in every country. There are so many different schools, that I can simplify this even more: is the MD from your school accepted in every country?
WIth all due respect: This is really a Pale attempt to smear MD and make it equal to DO around the world when you know this is not true.( Had to add this disclaimer before some DO goes off the deep end, YES DO and MD are the SAME that is not what I'm talking about, it has not caught up to that in all countries of the world as of today)

WHO lists the countries but the system has been down. I have said it over and over again this is a silly argument IMO. You want the MD crowd to prove that every country in the world accepts MD, I have told you they do in one way or another, MD and MBBS are degress around for years before DO was ever thought of. The Degrees the schools the world over give except for the USA is Doctor of Medicine, Doctor, Medical Doctor and MBBS. Please since you are so wanting this just a post a country that does not have provisions for MD practice, please then we can end this because you will prove your point since mine is "Every".

I'll give you that

Because I'm just a MS II with a lot to study please prove this or let it go. :luck:
 
First of all, I am pretty sure I detect sarcasm in your saying you find the previous post offensive. Secondly, why is it so chic to say you are part American Indian (apparently the new PC term)? If you are not at least 1/2, you don't look AI and nobody cares.

SO racial slurs are ok? I'll admit my ancestry has been diluted down a lot but PC is a fact of life and the term is demeaning and meant to be, why else use it? BTW I know some African AMericans that appear to be White so it's ok to use racial slurs around them?
How about Gay people? Ok to slur them too since they do not always have a "Look" I think you can see where I'm going with this?

You know demeaning people is demeaning people and unbecoming of a future doctor and caregiver.
 
I have enough Urine to join in this Match...................


Why is it always the Competitive Residencies? It's like a broken record, I did not go to medschool to be a surgeon Or Derm or Radiologist........I would be bored to tears, I wanted RURAL FP and there are others like me who want IM and PEDS whats wrong with that? I guess whats wrong is you can't Argue that much over it.
man i try to read ur posts but my head starts to hurt. that dude keeps bangin his head...
 
man i try to read ur posts but my head starts to hurt. that dude keeps bangin his head...

Yeah it's how I feel trying to make sense of some of the posts on SDN sometimes.

Logic is a miss here at times...............................................
 
Yeah it's how I feel trying to make sense of some of the posts on SDN sometimes.

Logic is a miss here at times...............................................
haha lol i hear ya
 
Well, she was the one bringing her descent and culture up. It certainly didn't matter to me. But she pretty much ran away from her home. This kinds of clushes between parents who come from the old country and their American or Americanized kids are not that rare. But, I guess in that particular ethnic group it's much more expressed. Heck, I'm an immigrant myself, though from Europe. I already see how my own daughter, who was born in U.S, is different from the culture I was growing up in. not saying good or bad....just different And some things that she does and says are even more "shocking" to her grandparents. But she is a good kid, just different from what we knew back in a day.

Hope it clears up this matter.

Perfectly
 
SO racial slurs are ok? I'll admit my ancestry has been diluted down a lot but PC is a fact of life and the term is demeaning and meant to be, why else use it? BTW I know some African AMericans that appear to be White so it's ok to use racial slurs around them?
How about Gay people? Ok to slur them too since they do not always have a "Look" I think you can see where I'm going with this?

You know demeaning people is demeaning people and unbecoming of a future doctor and caregiver.

Actually, I have no idea where you were going with that. I can't figure out which of the two scenarios is going on here:
A: You are too stupid to understand what I said and somehow read it as though I am condoning racial slurs.
B: You enjoy arguments and feign overreaction to make things more interesting.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume B as I also like to argue. By "the term" I am under the assumption that you mean "chief." Could someone see you and recognize the American Indian in you? Do you practice Native American culture? I would bet the answer is no and no and I hardly think you are in a place to be offended by the word chief. Calling someone chief is basically equivalent to calling them dude; watch Letterman sometime.

I do not condone the use of racial slurs. I might think it silly if someone looked white, were more than half white and the rest black and called themselves African American but they can claim whatever heritage they want, no big deal or difference to me. Also, anyone can be offended by a true racial slur (which "chief" in this situation was not intended as) whether they are of the slurred race or not. I also believe that many people want something to get uptight and offended about. If people stopped being offended by racial slurs, they would cease to be offensive and nobody would care to use them or talk about them anymore. Wouldn't that be nice? For instance, are there any highly offensive terms for whites? Not really, because they don't get offended by them. Call a white guy a honky, cracker, whatever and he won't care. In fact, he will likely think it is funny. True hatred and racism is scary and offensive; words should not be unless explicitly used to further these vile causes.

As far as gays . . . I hope they secure the right to marry so they can be as miserable as all us heterosexuals.

BTW, as a democrat atheist I DO NOT fit in in my state.

If I have any prejudice it is against smokers and obese individuals, but they can both change the way they are unlike your race or your sexual preference.

Oh man, it is two in the morning, I am rambling as I tend to do and I should go to bed . . . I hope I don't regret anything I wrote in the morning . . . I drank 3 Coke Zeroes tonight and I am feeling a little crazy.
 
You Have 100% proved my point, Silly argument, and all you can do is insult, deny bias and demean another. :smuggrin:
 
Geez the acutally topic of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the title of the forum.

Did someone say that DOs are better and then someone replied 'ya mutha'. And this sh-t started in full?
 
Geez the acutally topic of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the title of the forum.

Did someone say that DOs are better and then someone replied 'ya mutha'. And this sh-t started in full?
No it got down to this because of a racial slur I took exception to and a DO student who wants MD students to stop posting that MD is accepted in every country of the world without a web site that proves that. ( I simply told the poster to tell us of one country that does not License MD's and I would take it back, instead they have posted a MD from this country cannot be licensed in this country........thats not what I asked for)

I think it's silly myself to keep it up I said my opinion but they want me to agree with their opinions they have at all costs...................I guess they will feel better with going to a DO school? But why do they need the approvals of Caribbean MD students?
 
No it got down to this because of a racial slur I took exception to and a DO student who wants MD students to stop posting that MD is accepted in every country of the world without a web site that proves that. ( I simply told the poster to tell us of one country that does not License MD's and I would take it back, instead they have posted a MD from this country cannot be licensed in this country........thats not what I asked for)

The first rule of posting statements of fact is that you back it up with hard proof. It's a simple concept. You say that MD's are accepted universally. I ask for hard proof. You counter by asking *me* to disprove *your* fact. This is called the 'burden of proof' fallacy. I haven't made any statments of fact - you have, and you have yet to prove, or even indicate how your statement is true, aside from simply it being your *opinion*.

Then I asked you an easy question that would not take long to answer. I asked you if your school's MD was universally accepted. I have yet to get an answer to this question from you.

I honestly have nothing against people who go offshore to get their MDs. By that simple act of leaving the country they show me that they are very willing to go above and beyond to get a medical education. I have a lot of friends who went that route and I respect them for it. We can argue all day long about which route is better. But in the end it's an individual's determination of what's best for them.

But I draw the line is when people post blanket statements about the superiority or inferiority of one route to medicine over another, that are either opinion, conjecture, or simply untrue.

So please, say what you want. Just be prepared to back up what you say. If not, then be prepared to have all your statements questioned. I'm sure you've encountered evidence-based medicine during school. Same thing. Prove it or don't present it as fact.
 
Look at Lombard Illinois Chiropractor program. They basically have an M.D. ciriculumn. So that makes Chiro's, D.O.'s, FMG's and US M.D.'s the basically the same give or take a semester or two.


Not even close. Chiropractic has NO place in this discussion. Chiropractors ARE NOT medical doctors. There is NO program of chiropractic study that is even close to the program of study for MDs or DOs. Having classes titled similarily does not make courses equal. To say nothing about the absence of clerkships or residencies (or even experience with truly sick patients) in the chiropractic training programs.

MD = DO (and yes I am an MD from a US school since that seems to matter to everyone here). I am at one of the most prestigious post grad training institutions in the world for my residency. As a senior, I've had great interns who are MBBSs, MDs, and DOs. Guess what - each performs to their own talents. IT DOESN'T MATTER. The only idiots trying to prove otherwise are chiropractors, premeds, and egomanical MD medical students with chips on their shoulders because they spent far too much time studying in undergrad and never had a life. Get over it. In residency it won't matter what letters are after someone's name, you'll just be happy they are there to sign you out!

- H
 
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