Why do non-URM envy the so-called "advantage" the URM have for admissions?

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Originally posted by Rudy1223
When I first saw pathdr2b's reply it made me sick! How can anybody (especially an aspiring physician that is dedicating his/her life to help other's through their suffering) be so cruel and malicious. I think this is the most self-absorbed thing I have ever seen. People like Pathdr2b keep AA very much alive.
Rudy
???????? My husband and I were rolling on the floor laughing when we were reading that stuff. qac DO was trying to be funny (and was hilarious) and pathdr2b was trying to be funny. No cruel or malicious intent here, at least that I can see...
 
Originally posted by Rudy1223
When I first saw pathdr2b's reply it made me sick! How can anybody (especially an aspiring physician that is dedicating his/her life to help other's through their suffering) be so cruel and malicious. I think this is the most self-absorbed thing I have ever seen. People like Pathdr2b keep AA very much alive.


You know it just dawned on me that Rudy thinks I was kidding about my Dad (AND Mom, thank you very much) being a graduate of UC - Berkley and a company Vice-president. Dam*, I guess we need AA after all since if there were more URM graduates of top universities and at Fortune 500 Businesses, it wouldn't be so hard to believe some of us actually do "make it".🙁 🙁 🙁
 
let us all bow down to pathdr2b and marvel at his wonderful existence and superiority over us all!

Is this what you want to hear? Do you like the feeling you get when you put others down only to bring yourself up in the process? You do not deserve to be a doctor, not by a long shot buddy.

Again, Grow up!


p.s. you can show off all you want you are only making my point!:laugh:
 
Originally posted by Rudy1223
let us all bow down to pathdr2b and marvel at his wonderful existence and superiority over us all!

Is this what you want to hear? Do you like the feeling you get when you put others down only to bring yourself up in the process?
Again, Grow up!


p.s. you can show off all you want you are only making my
point!:laugh:

Why, why, why, do people on SDN ALWAYS think I'm a guy? 🙄

"You do not deserve to be a doctor, not by a long shot buddy."

I can think of a few admissions committee's that disagree.😛
Also, tolerance for differences in opinions, attitudes, ect is one dam* good quality of a physician that YOU obiviously don't have.

Besides, where was the putdown in my previous post? It was all in fun!! Never mind...........................can you spell LAXATIVE?

Now go away, troll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
THe reason I disagree with granting URM status and selecting a new applicant pool for them is that this SEGREGATION of applicants actually feeds the problem we are trying to solve. If we want people to stop being treated differently and being discriminated against due to their ethnicity or color of skin, we have to treat everyone the same.
Lot of people URM or non-URM have to struggle financially through school and make their way through life. All the struggles I have faced I am thankful for. They have made me a better and more capable person for it. Yes this sounds cliche but it is true. I see the disadvantaged status question on the AMCAS and refuse to answer it. What for? If I can't get into Med school based on the person I am, the things I have accomplished no matter my circumstances, I shouldn't be a doctor. People want the best most capable doctor; thus, we should let in only the best promising student regardless of anything else. If you have made it through tough circumstances, the ad com will see that in your personal statement and ECs. Overcoming a tough life exp speaks volumes....IT should be about handling what apparently happened rather than assuming obstacles and granting URM and treating people differently.
 
Hey qac DO, from a fellow vietnamese, I have to say you are hilarious. Very funny stuff.........my parents had the same situation as you, came in a boat with nothing. Now they've made something out of themselves and raised 3 wonderful children (including me!). They never wanted/accepted handouts and succeeded through hard work and perseverance. That's why I love America cause here, you can be anything you want as long as you work at it. As far as AA, I wish they ended AA and instead instituted a system based on wealth. In America, money often correlates to better schooling/lifestyle so I definitely think AA based on wealth would be fair and I know I wouldnt complain. I just think instituting a race based system is so divisive in the long term and doesnt solve the problem of racial inequality.

Jetson
 
I hate URMs!

damn Universal Retention Mechanisms.
 
Word em up Jet, you hear me dog. Wes don't need no hand out from da man, just a leveled playing field. Asain brother can't get no luv from da man, let alone our own girls who say we to small down der. VEILSIDE whys you on my niggity niggity nutz so much, ain't got no beef wit you, don't even know where you stand on the issue. And for PATHDR2B yos just playin right, no real harm intended on my side, just talkin ish. One day I might have a serious ? to ask, can't take this thread to serious ya know. Like I said I don't hate da playaz (URMs), I hates da game. Pimpin ain't easy but somebody gotz to do it.
 
AA is a government's social adjustment policy- a method to make the system fairer for people who are less deserving.

AA is a way to promote the fairness of the system provided fairness is not a given right. Does AA promote the fairness of the system? Yes.

Do we agree that there are people with less advantageous background like Quc DO? Certainly.
Do we agree that there are people with superior advantage over other like special privilege? Certainly.
Is that fair? Most people will say no.

But let's think about this question: What is fair?

Is that fair someone grows up in a King's family and inherits endless privilege and fortune, but someone grows up as an orphan?
Is that fair that someone choose computer random pick on lottery ticket and win the lottery but someone does the same thing but not win?
Is that fair that someone is a born genius because of his/her parents' gene, but someone is just ******ed?
Is that fair that someone is handicap so he can park in the handicap space but someone else who is not handicap have to spend 30 mins finding a parking spot?
Question above might provoke different answer for different people. To some question, most people might agree it's fair (lottery one or the handicap one); to some questions, people might think it is not (grow up in a King's family, no need to worry about $hit.)

But let me ask you a question, does the "someone? in any of the above example, have any choice? Did the handicap man break his leg to get a handicap parking permit? Did the guy choose computer random pick not know that, he has very little chance of winning? Did the man who was born orphan or born in palace, decide what family to be born into?

No, we are all given what we got. Extend that, one of you on this thread who keep saying AA is not fair for non-URM, or saying URM deserves AA, will in another time, another space, speak the exactly opposite thing. Two of you are identical in a sense that both are human, both reason with the same logic. It's the mere different backgrounds that make you two speaking/believing different things.

For the welfare of the system, to promote fairness to a certain extend is a must. However to define fairness is extremely hard, therefore it's impossible to obtain absolute fairness.

Let's categorize people in below categories:
A- Above average non-URM who will not be benefited from AA (will get into med school w/o the help from AA)
B- Above average URM who will not be benefited from AA (get into med school without AA)
C- below average non-URM who will not be benefited from AA (who will not get into med school anyway)
D- below average URM who WILL be benefited from AA (who get into med school due to AA. Wouldn't get in otherwise.)

We can clearly see that, AA only makes a difference in D category.

And lots of you from category A and B or even C, complain that it's not fair. Your argument is really referring to the fairness between category C and category D, since A and B are unaffected by AA.

In the absence of AA, both category C and category D will have no hope of getting into med school. After the presence of AA, at least category D can be matriculated.

Therefore we can conclude that, AA only benefit people, but doesn't harm people.

You might argue that, URM take spot in med school otherwise would go to non-URM category A students, thereof increase the percentage of category A and decrease category C. Well, true, but as entire population of applicant pool is considered as a whole, number of matriculants is only increased, never decreased.

Why does the system do that- favor one category for the price of sacrificing the other category? It's the root of this debate, which I will address soon. And another question risen, do non-URM people who are as disadvantaged as an "ideal URM" (ideal URM is defined as population who are less advantageous financially/academically/socialeconomically than other applicant due to their race) have a right to say that, they also deserve special privilege as URM? Do some URM people who are actually wealthy and receiving adequate education deserve special privilege? This is the second question I am going to answer.

First question: Why does the system do that- favor one category for the price of sacrificing the other category?

Our democratic economic structure is the best model to achieve highest benefit for everyone who shares the market. Remember the intro microeconomic book has this pie diagram. While everyone's share of pie is the same, enlarging the pie itself will enlarge everyone's share. A free market force, the force that drives a democratic economic, is the best way to ensure that this pie is at its maximum efficiency. If government take controls or intervene, for example, communist model in which government decide the distribution of goods, the market will be extremely inefficient and therefore the size of the pie will shrink.
However, this free market economic model is not perfect. Extreme and growing difference between the poor and the rich becomes a phenomenon. To ensure maximized profit, company will merge and acquire monopoly to its best interest. This though ensures the enlargement of the pie, but it well loses the fairness of the market. It creates a vicious cycle that basically makes successful people more likely to succeed, disadvantageous people more likely to lose.
(Increase a pie- radius of a circle, will enlarge the slice- each share- by 3.14 time. it means that, a linear increase in pie will result in exponential effect in the difference b/t rich and poor.)
This idea can be understood and extended to area other than financial economic, i.e. social economic. African-American mostly or so called ghetto neighborhood generally have higher rate of underage pregnancy and single mother. In rich neighborhood normally teenager who are pregnant younger before marriage, have greater access to abortion, and greater pressure for choosing abortion. Single mother in less educated neighborhood however, is more likely to choose not to abort her child. (This is confirmed by research that, the less educated the people are, the less likely they will choose abortion. it's not that hard to understand.) Since single teenage mother is more common in this neighborhood, the likelihood of their children to succeed in the society is less likely compares to children in rich neighborhood. Children in ghetto neighborhood become problematic and increase social burden.
This is the vicious cycle similar to the one in economic- richer get richer, poor get poorer.
AA is a mean to intervene, just like government intervenes in business market in order to ensure a social justice and the general welfare.
For example, if government doesn't intervene, company will not care about dumping toxic waste into river, because such act is the result of maximizing its profit. Company will merge without control, monopoly will take place commonly and drive less competitive firm out of market quickly.
AA in medical school application process is the same. The system wants to maximize the benefit of the society. It acknowledges that certain population is disadvantageous to other, without help, these people who are disadvantageous is hard to get into med school. Harder for them to get into med school, this population will have less ambition to attempt/apply, eventually this population will give up the idea of applying, eventually the medical society will lose this population, and very likely this population's socialeconomical status will only go down ever more.
Therefore it's rightful for AA to take place. It's an example of social justice. Social justice is not an absolute justice that applies or even seem "just" to everyone. However it's a justice that promotes the general welfare and domestic tranquility.
Without social justice, one can argue that why do handicap people get to park at a near by spot while I got to find a spot 10 minutes walk away for 30 minutes (in university campus)? They are handicap because they are unlucky, screw them, just because they are handicap, doesn't mean that I didn't work as hard as them to go to school and study and pay my tuition and pay my tax.
We know that this doesn't sound right. It's true that handicap people pay the same amount of tax, and they didn't choose to be handicap, but the society, the system, is justified to provide them with special privilege.

Second question: URM who are just as rich; non-URM who are just as poor, why do they/don't they deserve special privilege?
This comes to an argument that, AA is a privilege, not a right. This world is naturally UNFAIR. Let me repeat myself, unfairness is natural. People are born into different social class, equipped with different lengths, inherent with different trait/skill/talent/gene/title/deed/stigma.
System can only do its best job at pursuing a sense of fairness to the best of its effort. As long it makes a reasonable effort in pursuing social justice, I say that it's a good system. Can the rule be change to perfect the system, so more people who are really in need can be benefited? Yes, but it's the job of those legislatures that we vote to represent us. This world is not perfect, but we have to live with it. Rules are made by us for us to follow. They are there for a purpose. Privilege is given, since it's not a right, it's not up to us to argue it's whether fair or not.

It's just my 2 cents.
 
Man! That was more like your twenty bucks, but thanks for sharing 😛 .
 
Originally posted by womansurg
Man! That was more like your twenty bucks, but thanks for sharing 😛 .

oh come on, it wasn't worth that much 😉 :laugh:
 
Originally posted by gooloogooloo
AA is a government's social adjustment policy- a method to make the system fairer for people who are less deserving.

...


It's just my 2 cents.

Are you sure that's not more than 2 cents. If not, 2 cents = a lot of words today. I have nothing valuable to say on the topic. I just thought it was funny you said this was just your 2 cents, and you wrote one of the longest posts I have ever read. Seems like it's gotta be worth at least a dollar.
 
Originally posted by womansurg
Man! That was more like your twenty bucks, but thanks for sharing 😛 .

Dam* womansurg you beat me to it!!
 
Dang GOOLOOGOOLOO, ya sure ya ain't in da wrong forum? Maybe you should be at studentlawyer.com, or md/jd.com. Nows I know whys your name so long cuz ya just like exercisin yo fingers on dem keyboards, huh?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: No beef just playin, dog.
 
Originally posted by Camden772
Dam* womansurg you beat me to it!!
Woohoo! All that knot tying is payin' off! :clap:
 
Originally posted by gooloogooloo

Let's categorize people in below categories:
A- Above average non-URM who will not be benefited from AA (will get into med school w/o the help from AA)
B- Above average URM who will not be benefited from AA (get into med school without AA)
C- below average non-URM who will not be benefited from AA (who will not get into med school anyway)
D- below average URM who WILL be benefited from AA (who get into med school due to AA. Wouldn't get in otherwise.)

We can clearly see that, AA only makes a difference in D category.

And lots of you from category A and B or even C, complain that it's not fair. Your argument is really referring to the fairness between category C and category D, since A and B are unaffected by AA.

In the absence of AA, both category C and category D will have no hope of getting into med school. After the presence of AA, at least category D can be matriculated.

Therefore we can conclude that, AA only benefit people, but doesn't harm people.


Very convoluted argument. "AA only makes a difference in D category" because that is what you have already assumed...

Affirmative action is tough to defend because it is essentially reverse discrimination.
 
It's the OP here. I have enjoyed reading the different ideas that have come out because of my thread. I still stand by my position even though you guys on the other side made some good points. Look we've all seen these arguments before and none of us are going change our positions.

But let me add this point. To all the Asians out there that are against AA because you feel as long as you work hard and get good numbers you can go anywhere. A couple of years ago there was an article in the Daily Bruin (UCLA newspaper) showing the statistics of Asians in graduate/professional programs at the UCs. Even though Asians make up half of enrollment at some UCs for undergrad their prescence in grad/prof schools were a mere 12%. My point is that unless you are white there is always a barrier or glass-ceiling holding you down. Think anout it qac DO, Asians are the most educated (as far as % holding college degrees) in this country yet all the top positions and business and acadmia are for white people.
 
Affirmative action is a fair system for education students throughout our country. If you look at the statistics for underrepresented minority students you will find a large difference in GPA's and MCAT's from the non-URM accepted applicants. According to the AAMC Profile of 1999 applicants accepted to medical school, average MCATs and GPA's were:

blacks 24O, 3.27
american indians 27O, 3.38
mexican americans 27O, 3.33
mainland puerto ricans 27O, 3.38
white 30P, 3.62
Asian/pacific islander 32P, 3.62
c/wealth puerto ricans 21K, 3.47
other hispanic 29P, 3.50

As you can see, the Asian/pacific islander group scores well above other ethnicities. If affirmative action were not available, then I could see how it would be difficult for minorities to be accepted to medical school (probably on the top 10% of the minority applicants would be accepted if you focused solely on MCATs and GPAs). There are many other factors that play into whether someone is accepted to medical school, such as ECs, motivation to become a physician, your background, your financial situation growing up, etc.
 
Originally posted by medicine2006
My point is that unless you are white there is always a barrier or glass-ceiling holding you down.
Word um up dog, da man tryin to hold an asian brother down. Asian brother can get no luv anywhere. Gook to small to play professional sports, can't rap or get jiggy wit it, to nippy to stay on T.V. (look at that Cho girl, and russel wong), don't got no ivy hook ups to play wall street or law firms. Hell, our own girlz don't even like us, that small member myth thing going against us. Always weez gotz is edumacation, it is the only variable that we have control of. Do feel me dog.
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Dang GOOLOOGOOLOO, ya sure ya ain't in da wrong forum? Maybe you should be at studentlawyer.com, or md/jd.com. Nows I know whys your name so long cuz ya just like exercisin yo fingers on dem keyboards, huh?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: No beef just playin, dog.

jules.gif
 
Originally posted by TeinIII
jules.gif
Dang man why all dees biooootches always on my niggity niggity nutz about my english. I didn't there was so many Ph.d's (aka playa hater degrees) in glutal muscles and rectums here, cuz der all smart asses.
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Dang man why all dees biooootches always on my niggity niggity nutz about my english. I didn't there was so many Ph.d's (aka playa hater degrees) in glutal muscles and rectums here, cuz der all smart asses.

Dude, you might think you sound cool, but you don't. 🙂

(anyone else agree with me?)

And you're sure as hell not a player.
 
Originally posted by Random Access
Dude, you might think you sound cool, but you don't. 🙂

(anyone else agree with me?)

And you're sure as hell not a player.

I'm with you, RA...

Anyone else think that qac DO may be Dr. Wallstreet's/DelayofGame's cousin or other relation? 😛
 
Originally posted by SouthernGirl
I'm with you, RA...

Anyone else think that qac DO may be Dr. Wallstreet's/DelayofGame's cousin or other relation? 😛

Does anyone else think qac DO sounds like "Quack Doctor of Osteopathy?"...anyway...
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Dang man why all dees biooootches always on my niggity niggity nutz about my english. I didn't there was so many Ph.d's (aka playa hater degrees) in glutal muscles and rectums here, cuz der all smart asses.

follow the simple directions in the following diagram:

suicide.gif
 
Tein III's previous post is sick. Which one of you paged the next Dr.Kovorkian anyway?
 
Originally posted by Random Access
Does anyone else think qac DO sounds like "Quack Doctor of Osteopathy?"...anyway...
Like I said another biooootch all on my nutz. Don't worry randaom there is enough of this little gook schlong to go around ta all tein's bioootch possie. BTW Quc is my real name and the DO thing just implies my opinion on the matter, now would I call my self a quack if I really was one of dem, now think about that one grasshopper and you well enter the next chamber in shoalin.
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Like I said another biooootch all on my nutz. Don't worry randaom there is enough of this little gook schlong to go around ta all tein's bioootch possie. BTW Quc is my real name and the DO thing just implies my opinion on the matter, now would I call my self a quack if I really was one of dem, now think about that one grasshopper and you well enter the next chamber in shoalin.

*censored*
 
Didn't you just have Tweetie lay the smack down? 🙂
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Like I said another biooootch all on my nutz. Don't worry randaom there is enough of this little gook schlong to go around ta all tein's bioootch possie. BTW Quc is my real name and the DO thing just implies my opinion on the matter, now would I call my self a quack if I really was one of dem, now think about that one grasshopper and you well enter the next chamber in shoalin.

google-stupidity.jpg


better?
 
Originally posted by Random Access
Didn't you just have Tweetie lay the smack down? 🙂
What you talkin about foo? Random, Tein isn't givin it ta ya enough or something, don't worry, I'll rat ta tat tat you until ya head snaps back, just bend over. And Tein you ain't got nothin original ta say, always postin stuff off other sites now thats very original.😱 🙄 😱 🙄
 
Originally posted by qac DO
What you talkin about foo? Random, Tein isn't givin it ta ya enough or something, don't worry, I'll rat ta tat tat you until ya head snaps back, just bend over. And Tein you ain't got nothin original ta say, always postin stuff off other sites now thats very original.😱 🙄 😱 🙄

i never said nor do i deem those pics as original. i just think it perfectly matches my responses to your posts. hence, my posting them. and speaking of original, your use of english slang is SO original. keep it up PlaYAA hAtAzZz
wave-finger.gif
 
Originally posted by qac DO
What you talkin about foo? Random, Tein isn't givin it ta ya enough or something, don't worry, I'll rat ta tat tat you until ya head snaps back, just bend over. And Tein you ain't got nothin original ta say, always postin stuff off other sites now thats very original.😱 🙄 😱 🙄

I bet you live in Westminster.😀
 
Originally posted by dpark74
I bet you live in Westminster.😀
Na, I'm from Long Beach, but have a lot of friends from there though. On another note Tein yous gotz a foul mouth da ya needs me to wash it out wit my jizzz after I change RANDOM's name to Rectum Access.
 
Originally posted by Sweet Tea
apparently he missed that part. 🙄

i see a teinIV appearing soon...🙄
Please don't ban Tein, I need his dirty mouth around so I can deposit my jizzzzim in it.
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Na, I'm from Long Beach, but have a lot of friends from there though. On another note Tein yous gotz a foul mouth da ya needs me to wash it out wit my jizzz after I change RANDOM's name to Rectum Access.

yo yo yo...i founds yo pic right hea:
homo.jpg


i gotz a foulz mouth u says?? na na dawg!!!! u sayzz u's fro long beach. aiite aiite i hea u i hea u biatch. jus lettin u knows tho. just cuz you gotz dicked by other dudes don't mean u gotz to return da favor to yo fellow SDN possie. u knows what i sayin?? it's okay to be gay dawg. i understands.
 
Originally posted by TeinIII
yo yo yo...i founds yo pic right hea:
homo.jpg


i gotz a foulz mouth u says?? na na dawg!!!! u sayzz u's fro long beach. aiite aiite i hea u i hea u biatch. jus lettin u knows tho. just cuz you gotz dicked by other dudes don't mean u gotz to return da favor to yo fellow SDN possie. u knows what i sayin?? it's okay to be gay dawg. i understands.
Na dawg, I'm tri sexual, I'll try anything. I tried ya mama last night, that freakydicky hermaphrodie.
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Please don't ban Tein, I need his dirty mouth around so I can deposit my jizzzzim in it.

ooooooooo shietZ what a great comeback fukkin biatch. no faggityass fairies allowed in here. take ur gheyass pride and ur bullshiet and go back to where u came from u fukkin homo
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Na dawg, I'm tri sexual, I'll try anything. I tried ya mama last night, that freakydicky hermaphrodie.


das funny dawg cuz i double fukked ur moms and ur girl last nite till their tits fell off
 
Originally posted by TeinIII
ooooooooo shietZ what a great comeback fukkin biatch. no faggityass fairies allowed in here. take ur gheyass pride and ur bullshiet and go back to where u came from u fukkin homo
Like I said I'm tri-sexual, I tried your freak dicky hermaphrodite mom last night. I'm I really pushing your buttons, do you need a time out, it well be okay little boy. Your mom told me to tell you this last night when I was laying the pipe down on her "sticks and stones" I think you know the rest. What we really need in the world a homophobic doctor, are you going to refuse patients care because of their sexual preference.
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Like I said I'm tri-sexual, I tried your dog last nite and ur cat. damn i did them for lil bit and they started going at it at me. shiet..... was all good yo word em up. too bad u guys don't have horseys

damn man....u sick

and i found another pic of you dawWWGGgg
domesticthug.jpg
 
Originally posted by TeinIII
Please qac don't give all your man juice to my mom save some for me.
Don't worry Tit III I have enough you, your mom, hell I don't want to be selfish bring the whole family, da jizzzim will go straight to ya brain.
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Don't worry Tit III I have enough you, your mom, hell I don't want to be selfish bring the whole family, da jizzzim will go straight to ya brain.

congrats, u have been awarded:

medal2.gif
 
Coming soon to a forum near you....TEIN IV! (DUDE, Tweetie may get you again! Man, your smiley middle finger icon is hilarious!)
 
Originally posted by TeinIII
congrats, u have been awarded:

medal2.gif
Sorry Tit III I can't take this award away from you, you had it first, I think you deserve more then me.
 
bahahahah well if get banned this time then it's really not my fault. and along with me, this quack doc needs to go too.
 
Originally posted by qac DO
Sorry Tit III I can't take this award away from you, you had it first, I think you deserve more then me.

well learn how to use correct grammar first quackie
 
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