Why do not we open more medical schools in US and stop importing FMG?

[emno]

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Just curious.

thanks

 

[VCU07]

Just curious.

thanks

Seems like you were a bit nervous to ask this question? The U.S. has opened more medical schools, but one must realize that it will take 4yrs to graduate a class plus a min. of 3 yrs of residency..so it takes time. Also, it's not like we are going out and finding FMGs, they are the ones that one to come here.

 

[DOwnage]

better to import FMG's than let NP's encroach on our turf.

 

[Skippygonenuts]

more medical schools have been opened and almost all the schools have increased their class sizes...so in 4 years, i really don't think there will be enough residency spots for US grads alone...i'm scared at the thought of getting into medicine now to be honest, but i'm praying that in the next few years more residency spots open up, and not just in FP and IM

 

[taylormade2006]

If I understand the system correctly, the "limiting reagent" is the number of residency spots, which are funded by Medicare. So even if we opened up 100 more schools, there still wouldn't be enough residency spots for everyone unless Medicare somehow got more money to fund them.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I would like to understand.

 

[Kevin Baker]

Just curious.

thanks

Money. Residencies cost the state a ton of money to maintain, and med schools cost somewhere in the 8 figures to open.

 

[gatewasani]

because than this wouldn't be America,

people come here for better opportunities for their families, y would we deny very very qualified ppl from practicing medicine and coming here. Would you rather they emigrate here and get jobs driving cabs?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

because than this wouldn't be America,

people come here for better opportunities for their families, y would we deny very very qualified ppl from practicing medicine and coming here. Would you rather they emigrate here and get jobs driving cabs?

..........?

We have opened more medical schools at this point, and as posters above have noted we'll likely be pushing the limits of the present residency spots in a few short years.

The "excess" residency spots of the past did not exist for the purpose of giving FMGs "better opportunities for their families". Rather, they existed because the AMA successfully campaigned against the opening of new MD schools for decades and because DO school total enrollment wasn't very large until recently. These factors combined to leave excess room in American residency training programs that often got filled by FMGs.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

better to import FMG's than let NP's encroach on our turf.

Feeling a bit threatened are you? Why such animosity for mid-level practitioners? Do you feel the same way about the PAs too? See a need, fill a need... There is a need for them, and by and large they do a decent job... what's the problem?

 

[mspeedwagon]

You are correct. However, there are still residency slots that go unfilled every year. So we have not reached the threshold for where a graduating medical US medical student cannot get any form of a residency whatsoever.

You might not get a residency in your first choice speciality (or second or third), but you'll get one. I honestly don't see the need of opening up more residencies in specialities where there isn't a high demand. Last thing we won't is people that are the bottom of barrel attempting neurosurgery.

A lot of IMGs end up in FP and IM in these unfilled slots.

If I understand the system correctly, the "limiting reagent" is the number of residency spots, which are funded by Medicare. So even if we opened up 100 more schools, there still wouldn't be enough residency spots for everyone unless Medicare somehow got more money to fund them.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I would like to understand.

 

[Deleted member 237747]

.............................

 

[DOwnage]

Feeling a bit threatened are you? Why such animosity for mid-level practitioners? Do you feel the same way about the PAs too? See a need, fill a need... There is a need for them, and by and large they do a decent job... what's the problem?

Nice job extrapolating. I have no problem with midlevels that know their place. PA's are fine because they operate under the supervision of a physician. When NP's try to pretend to be doctors through DNP programs and take advantage of public ignorance, they put patients at risk and bring overall quality of health care down.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Nice job extrapolating. I have no problem with midlevels that know their place. PA's are fine because they operate under the supervision of a physician. When NP's try to pretend to be doctors through DNP programs and take advantage of public ignorance, they put patients at risk and bring overall quality of health care down.

"...That know their place..." wow... wow.... Do you know how pompous you sound? How well are you going to work with the NPs at whatever job you land out of school? Doesn't sound like it would be very well... NP's don't try to "pretend" to be doctors. I have several friends who are NPs, and they do their jobs quite well, I trust some of them more than some of the MDs I have met who don't listen, assume they know what is going on, and in some cases make incredible accusations... If it weren't for an NP my sister in law wouldn't have been treated properly for gall stones, all the MD's said she just had stomach pain and wouldn't investigate the issue... They also don't take advantage of public ignorance, while I understand that you feel DNPs aren't medical doctors, that is fine, but I bet you didn't call your PhDs in college Mr/Mrs suchnsuch, I bet you called them Dr. suchnsuch.... They have a PhD, and that gives them the title of Dr. while I'm all for making some notations to make a distinction, you just really sound like a pompous jerk...

 

[HarMegido]

because importing is what america does best 👍

 

[scpod]

Would it really hurt to keep this thread on topic? Plenty of other NP/PA vs MD/DO threads are out there. Please, fight in those if you must or this thread will self destruct very quickly. Feel free to discuss opening new schools and residencies and FMGs.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Cheaper. FMG's cost our government less money then it does to train our own.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Cheaper. FMG's cost our government less money then it does to train our own.

How does it cost out government money? We pay the tuition, with the exception of people getting scholarships (which were usually private anyway), and they get interest on our loan money...

 

[Kevin Baker]

How does it cost out government money? We pay the tuition, with the exception of people getting scholarships (which were usually private anyway), and they get interest on our loan money...

Subsidies my good man. Subsidized in state tuition. Subsidized loans, defaults on loans, public scholarships, interest free periods, etc.

As far as I know, FMGs get no subsidies from the gov't whatsoever. I'd hazard almost all domestic students get some sort of subsidy in the forms mentioned above.

 

[Slane]

Cheaper. FMG's cost our government less money then it does to train our own.

How so? They make the same in the residency spots we would, right? It's not like the hospitals say "Hey, it's an FMG so lets only pay them half!"

Oops, maybe I should refresh before I post...

 

[DOwnage]

"...That know their place..." wow... wow.... Do you know how pompous you sound? How well are you going to work with the NPs at whatever job you land out of school? Doesn't sound like it would be very well... NP's don't try to "pretend" to be doctors. I have several friends who are NPs, and they do their jobs quite well, I trust some of them more than some of the MDs I have met who don't listen, assume they know what is going on, and in some cases make incredible accusations... If it weren't for an NP my sister in law wouldn't have been treated properly for gall stones, all the MD's said she just had stomach pain and wouldn't investigate the issue... They also don't take advantage of public ignorance, while I understand that you feel DNPs aren't medical doctors, that is fine, but I bet you didn't call your PhDs in college Mr/Mrs suchnsuch, I bet you called them Dr. suchnsuch.... They have a PhD, and that gives them the title of Dr. while I'm all for making some notations to make a distinction, you just really sound like a pompous jerk...

No need to get emotional, friend. Do you deny that doctors are the leaders of the health care team and that NP's have a special place in the hierarchy? Do you not think that NP's need to understand their position in the chain of command? Do you believe that NP's provide equal quality of care as physicians given their respective amounts of science courses and clinical training? Sure, not all NP's are bad and understand their limits. However, there are also NP's that believe they are capable of doing everything doctors can do except surgery. Absurd. Trying to point out an anecdotal story about your sister being treated by an awesome NP and an apparent buffoon of a physician is also absurd. What's the most absurd, however, is you trying to compare DNP's using the doctor title in a clinical setting to a history professor wanting to be addressed as doctor in a classroom. The context is entirely different.

 

[pNoy2]

Nice job extrapolating. I have no problem with midlevels that know their place. PA's are fine because they operate under the supervision of a physician. When NP's try to pretend to be doctors through DNP programs and take advantage of public ignorance, they put patients at risk and bring overall quality of health care down.

oh please, your insecurities and ignorance are showing up! DNP's doesn't have any intention to take over the practice of medicine. From my understanding the focus is more on the administrative duties of the healthcare system and the clinical role of nurses. it's like a Ph D in nursing. And mind you, the NP's doesn't pretend to be doctors. they look at the person holistically rather than just looking at the person with an illness/sickness. they are in a better to position to assume the role of an educator. they take the time to teach the patient about health promotion and disease prevention which their MD doesn't have the time to do all that. it is the NP that is more willing to go up and beyond to meet the health care needs of the patients, and fill the gap that the MD left empty.
And one more thing, if you ever get the chance to work in the ICU, it is the nurses that takes care of the patients and running the unit at night along with a NP while the MD is at the comfort of his bed sleeping.
just a caveat to you- when u do your internship and moonlighting, be nice to the nurses, they will help make your night go smoothly.

 

[randomusername]

oh please, your insecurities and ignorance are showing up! DNP's doesn't have any intention to take over the practice of medicine. From my understanding the focus is more on the administrative duties of the healthcare system and the clinical role of nurses. it's like a Ph D in nursing. And mind you, the NP's doesn't pretend to be doctors. they look at the person holistically rather than just looking at the person with an illness/sickness. they are in a better to position to assume the role of an educator. they take the time to teach the patient about health promotion and disease prevention which their MD doesn't have the time to do all that. it is the NP that is more willing to go up and beyond to meet the health care needs of the patients, and fill the gap that the MD left empty.
And one more thing, if you ever get the chance to work in the ICU, it is the nurses that takes care of the patients and running the unit at night along with a NP while the MD is at the comfort of his bed sleeping.
just a caveat to you- when u do your internship and moonlighting, be nice to the nurses, they will help make your night go smoothly.

Problem being there are plenty of DNPs out there lobbying for independent practice rights; "holistic care" is a talking point used by NPs, DOs, etc. and the point of the matter being that it is just that, a talking point, because there are plenty of healthcare providers with various degrees that practice "holistic" care; nobody denies that NPs carrying out the duties their profession was created for are doing good in the field, but when you have schools in Florida coming out with crackpot dermatology "residencies" for NPs (Is there really a lack of people wanting to pursue dermatology from the medical-side? Nuh-uh), it's obvious that a number in the field are just "following the money"; and I'd expect the nurses in the ICU to have more patient interaction than the doctors, they're assigned to a few patients in that one particular unit while the doctor has a number of patients all over the place; and anybody with a brain and knowledge of hospital-workings knows the first two groups you befriend are the secretaries and the RNs because they can make your life a smidgen easier or a smidgen harder.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Problem being there are plenty of DNPs out there lobbying for independent practice rights; "holistic care" is a talking point used by NPs, DOs, etc. and the point of the matter being that it is just that, a talking point, because there are plenty of healthcare providers with various degrees that practice "holistic" care; nobody denies that NPs carrying out the duties their profession was created for are doing good in the field, but when you have schools in Florida coming out with crackpot dermatology "residencies" for NPs (Is there really a lack of people wanting to pursue dermatology from the medical-side? Nuh-uh), it's obvious that a number in the field are just "following the money"; and I'd expect the nurses in the ICU to have more patient interaction than the doctors, they're assigned to a few patients in that one particular unit while the doctor has a number of patients all over the place; and anybody with a brain and knowledge of hospital-workings knows the first two groups you befriend are the secretaries and the RNs because they can make your life a smidgen easier or a smidgen harder.

What schools in Florida that are trying to do that? I live in FL, and I am not aware of such thing. Can you enlighten me on that? If that is true, the medical profession is truly in deep trouble.

 

[aspiringOSTEO]

1

 

[randomusername]

What schools in Florida that are trying to do that? I live in FL, and I am not aware of such thing. Can you enlighten me on that? If that is true, the medical profession is truly in deep trouble.

The school in question is Univ. of South Florida. What's funny is they received so many complaints that they actually took down the website for that specific program, but, if you go to the last paragraph on this page, you'll see mention of its existence:
http://health.usf.edu/nocms/nursing/AdmissionsPrograms/dnp_residency.html

It was talked about here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=719683

And here's a fun article from one of the NP journals regarding the need to establish these residencies and setting up guidelines to do so:
http://www.dermatologynursing.net/ceonline/2010/article12437448.pdf
If you go to the fourth page of the pdf, they refer to "NP dermatology specialists" in some form or fashion multiple times.

And just for giggles, read this gal's biography:
http://www.ecdss.com/debra_shelby.php


All of that being said, as the mods have indicated, there's plenty of other forums discussing stuff relevant to this matter elsewhere, so we should probably get back on topic again...