Why do people go to the carribean when they can do D.O?

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You know, this really doesn't need to become a DO vs. MD debate...

They chose it because A. They didn't get into a DO school. B. They don't know what a DO school is. C. They want to go to the Carib. D. Some other personal choice that isn't something that can be answered in a thread.

Why do people pick Harvard over Duke? Why UIC over Penn State?

To assume that there is one reason behind it is a bit odd. Are some so stubborn that they think MD is the only degree? Probably. Does everyone who goes to Carib end up being a terrible doc? No. Not really sure where this thread can go from here, but let's keep it away from the MD v. DO nonsense. Cause to be honest med school is what you make out of it. Match lists are nice, but it's YOU taking the Boards, not the school.
 
but DO-only residencies are peaches and cream?

Exactly, talk about exclusion, MDs currently cannot apply to any of the DO residencies, while DOs are free to apply to MD residencies as independent applicants. They can also prematch and sign a contract before the national match. At the same time the DO accreditation organization continues churning out new DO schools (even for-profit ones) with hefty tuitions without expanding a single DO residency spot, forcing more of their own students to piggyback off MD spots. Who's acting sleazier here?
 
Then I'd say perhaps you should read more and talk less about the things you know nothing about.
then perhaps you should elucidate and answer the questions asked rather than stroke your ego
 
then perhaps you should elucidate and answer the questions asked rather than stroke your ego

So what part of the loaded "DO-only residencies being peaches and cream" retort am I supposed to answer.

The only ego-stroking going on here is a bunch of premeds who think they know anything about the residency process and their presumed fitness to proclaim what's right and wrong with it.

I've posted multiple times about the osteopathic versus allopathic residency process. My position is clear. I've gone through it. I'm living it. You have no frame of reference besides hearsay and opinion. Check yourself, buddy.
 
So what part of the loaded "DO-only residencies being peaches and cream" retort am I supposed to answer.

The only ego-stroking going on here is a bunch of premeds who think they know anything about the residency process and their presumed fitness to proclaim what's right and wrong with it.

I've posted multiple times about the osteopathic versus allopathic residency process. My position is clear. I've gone through it. I'm living it. You have no frame of reference besides hearsay and opinion. Check yourself, buddy.

Wow, that was a mega dose of huffing and puffing, and irony. Where's the meat? 👎
 
So what part of the loaded "DO-only residencies being peaches and cream" retort am I supposed to answer.

The only ego-stroking going on here is a bunch of premeds who think they know anything about the residency process and their presumed fitness to proclaim what's right and wrong with it.

I've posted multiple times about the osteopathic versus allopathic residency process. My position is clear. I've gone through it. I'm living it. You have no frame of reference besides hearsay and opinion. Check yourself, buddy.

it's only as loaded as your comment about brown. the only person so far declaring what's right and wrong with a particular residency process is you.

as for you posting a bunch of times, good for you. but if you intend to continue to descend into the fray of a bunch of premeds, maybe you can correct misinformation or provide information when asked (which i actually did)
 
Uh...trust me kids, once you go to med school, you'll realize that life sucks regardless of whether you're at Harvard or bumsville Poland.

With reference to the whole patient perception thing, I can't possibly imagine anyone asking or making a fuss over a doctor's initial's. Have any of you ever worked in a hospital settings? Anyone in a white coat is a doctor, even nurses to my chagrin. If you want to go to a third world country in a class of 500+ with low retention, its completely up to you...whatever makes you happy =p. Here's my advice:

Look at the tuition of every school you get into. Choose the cheapest one MD/DO unless you absolutely hate the school. Then choose #2.

Not trying to flame anyone, just giving my two cents
 
So what part of the loaded "DO-only residencies being peaches and cream" retort am I supposed to answer.

The only ego-stroking going on here is a bunch of premeds who think they know anything about the residency process and their presumed fitness to proclaim what's right and wrong with it.

I've posted multiple times about the osteopathic versus allopathic residency process. My position is clear. I've gone through it. I'm living it. You have no frame of reference besides hearsay and opinion. Check yourself, buddy.

Keep fighting the good battle bud 👍
 
it's only as loaded as your comment about brown. the only person so far declaring what's right and wrong with a particular residency process is you.

as for you posting a bunch of times, good for you. but if you intend to continue to descend into the fray of a bunch of premeds, maybe you can correct misinformation or provide information when asked (which i actually did)

Thanks for telling me what I can and cannot do. Really. Thanks. My negative comment of Brown for not taking DO applicants is as loaded as EBKame's assertion that not taking DO applicants is a Good Thing.

The biggest problem with EBKame, and the reason I posted, is that she did not graduate from a Carib school, yet got into a program that does not accept DOs. The question was Carib or DO, not Sackler / Ireland / Australia versus DO. I point that out, and I get your snippy DO peaches and cream ****. Look buddy, it's more complicated than tit-for-tat, and excuse me if I don't want to get into more posts about it.

If you think that DO's have the best of both residency worlds, think again. If you think that DO's are in lock-step with the national DO organizations, think again. If you think we are getting away with something we shouldn't be, well, you just don't know the half of it.

Good luck at Harvard. Pho Pasteur was my favorite place to eat in the square.
 
I know, weird right? Like Brown itself thinks it is too good to accept undergrads from any other institution.

I got into Brown for undergrad and went to their pre-med open house thing. They laid this out there off the bat. They said this was their policy because they want to help maintain diversity in their student body and that if they didn't bar Brown students, admissions officers would feel compelled to accept every Brown applicant.
 
Thanks for telling me what I can and cannot do. Really. Thanks. My negative comment of Brown for not taking DO applicants is as loaded as EBKame's assertion that not taking DO applicants is a Good Thing.

The biggest problem with EBKame, and the reason I posted, is that she did not graduate from a Carib school, yet got into a program that does not accept DOs. The question was Carib or DO, not Sackler / Ireland / Australia versus DO. I point that out, and I get your snippy DO peaches and cream ****. Look buddy, it's more complicated than tit-for-tat, and excuse me if I don't want to get into more posts about it.

If you think that DO's have the best of both residency worlds, think again. If you think that DO's are in lock-step with the national DO organizations, think again. If you think we are getting away with something we shouldn't be, well, you just don't know the half of it.

Good luck at Harvard. Pho Pasteur was my favorite place to eat in the square.
that's not what i got out of that particular post but that's all i'll say about that. i was also not meaning to be snippy, but pointing out what i perceived to be a contradiction. to be fair, it was probably somewhat aggressive since i was hoping you would go into it. too bad you didn't. maybe they should merge pre-allo and pre-osteo after all.

pho pasteur changed their name to Le's now. which is too bad. not the same ring.
 
I got into Brown for undergrad and went to their pre-med open house thing. They laid this out there off the bat. They said this was their policy because they want to help maintain diversity in their student body and that if they didn't bar Brown students, admissions officers would feel compelled to accept every Brown applicant.
huh? that's the direct opposite of what we're talking about
 
I got into Brown for undergrad and went to their pre-med open house thing. They laid this out there off the bat. They said this was their policy because they want to help maintain diversity in their student body and that if they didn't bar Brown students, admissions officers would feel compelled to accept every Brown applicant.

wha? I don't get it. They want to have diversity so they bar students from institutions other than their own from getting in? They're preventing some serious talent from applying with their policy.
 
Wups, didn't read the earlier post, my comment was made in reference to their MD program ^______^"
 
that's not what i got out of that particular post but that's all i'll say about that. i was also not meaning to be snippy, but pointing out what i perceived to be a contradiction. to be fair, it was probably somewhat aggressive since i was hoping you would go into it. too bad you didn't. maybe they should merge pre-allo and pre-osteo after all.

pho pasteur changed their name to Le's now. which is too bad. not the same ring.

DO residencies were created for DO graduates. Since DO's could not, at one time, attend MD residencies, what else could they do?

There are more MD residency spots than there are MD applicants to fill them. And not all of those spots are in 'desireable' specialties. Government funding is lost when those spots consistenly do not fill. So, DO's are allowed - no - needed to fill those spots. For a while, it was just crappy spots in crappy specialties. Then programs realized that we weren't all voodoo and OMM, we knew medicine too. Then more programs considered DO applicants, in specialties that were more desireable. Things were still okay, there were plenty of spots, and IMGs also rounded out the lists nicely.

Now there are more graduates from all schools, the number of residency spots has not increased since the 80's. While most MD grads would not take a DO residency spot, some would if it were in a desireable specialty - like plastics or derm. Suddenly it wasn't just "MD spots for MDs only", now it was "DO spots for MDs too".

But it really isn't an equitable system. A DO and MD candidate applying to an MD program with equal stats - the MD wins. The DO with higher stats than the MD candidate - perhaps equal competitiveness. Is that fair? Maybe not, but it's what it is.

DOs are designated as independant candidates. It's not as if we lobbied for that status, it's what we are considered by ERAS and NRMP, just like past MD graduates and IMGs. As such, we can sign outside the match. This traditionally favored the weaker programs, who would pressure DO's to sign outside the match in order to assure filling that year. This is seen as some sort of advantage, but unless you are offered a contract to your number one choice and want to go there, it's a mind-fu*ck when they dangle the contract in front you and hint that if you don't sign, you can kiss their ranking you away.

It's not as if people sign outside the match left and right. It's like the '90 college credits required to matriculate to med school'. Technically possible, but not often encountered - especially in the more competitive specialties.

And speaking of competitive specialities. At one time, anesthesia was considered a sh*tty specialty. So was psychiatry. You couldn't get an US grad to apply to those specialties. You know who filled that undesireable void? DOs. IMGs. Anesthesia is very DO-friendly. So is EM, one of the youngest specialties, the red-headed, bastard step-child unholy offspring of surgery, medicine, peds, and OB. No one wanted to do EM - it was new, strange, run under the department of surgery as a division - didn't rate departmental status. Who went into EM in droves? DOs.

Mind you, this is all skewed to my viewpoint, but historically and trend-wise, it's on target. Now that anesthesia and EM are becoming more popular, DOs and IMGs are being squeezed out. Things are different now. More USMDs may not get what they want, and all others may not match at all.
 
As someone who comes from a school with both MD and DO programs....

We had MD and DO students together in the same classes for the first year. The only difference was that the DO students had a lower percentage required to pass a course. When you compare the admission statistics for the 2 programs there are differences which you can find described in other posts.

Our faculty is a combination of both DO, and MD physicians. I have worked quite a bit with DO attendings. Most of which do NOT use OMM. A quick literature search can reveal multiple studies both pro-OMM and against it.

I came from an "MD" area of the nation and thought that DO's were chiropractors until before I went to medical school. These area's do still exist.
 
thank you. very illuminating. with DOs going into MD residencies, what happens with DO-only residency vacancies? wouldn't a program be better served by at least letting MDs (esp. FMGs that may be facing an uphill climb in the match) apply?
 
Aren't DO programs actually very hard to get into? Like you have to get a degree, take the MCAT, the whole shebang...

I wasn't under the impression that was true with CaribMD programs...
 
DO schools have MD+++ standards when it comes to acceptance but there just aren't as many schools and recognition... therefore less applicants and less high-stat applicants.

lol wat
 
I'm adding a few DO programs, they aren't my first choice though. Unless you really really are afraid to explain what a DO is, I have trouble understanding why anyone would consider Caribbean (unless, I guess, they have some connection to the program or area?)

I think all the benefits are towards DO.
 

Same prereqs + DO or physician letter. They also look for people with life and work experience and a lot more than just looking good on paper. Why anyone would want a Dr. with no work experience other than in his 30s is beyond me. With that said I'm non-traditional and I've got enough MD and DO interviews this year to take a pick... but you guys looking down on DO's are PATHETIC... who the hell are you to have a professional opinion in something you clearly don't understand?
 
Furthermore, some of you guys are disrespectful... will make for a pretty humble med student and amazing physician, I'm sure. Caribbean = low pass rates and that's a fact. If that's what you chose and you're doing great, that's all that matters. I'm not shooting misconceptions out of my anal orifice like you guys are. DO schools have exceptionally high board pass rates and produce world class physicians regardless of admission stats. Yes, some Caribbean graduates make it but I'd hardly place them in the majority. The worst was my ex that just didn't become a physician because she didn't apply to DO... she would have been an M3 by now but instead is back in the admissions cycle... missed several years of school because improving her 26 MCAT (which she didn't even do better on the 2nd time) was more important to her ego than practicing medicine. Get over yourselves.
 
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Furthermore, some of you guys are disrespectful... will make for a pretty humble med student and amazing physician, I'm sure. Caribbean = low pass rates and that's a fact. If that's what you chose and you're doing great, that's all that matters. I'm not shooting misconceptions out of my anal orifice like you guys are. DO schools have exceptionally high board pass rates and produce world class physicians regardless of admission stats. Yes, some Caribbean graduates make it but I'd hardly place them in the majority. The worst was my ex that just didn't become a physician because she didn't apply to DO... she would have been an M3 by now but instead is back in the admissions cycle... missed several years of school because improving her 26 MCAT (which she didn't even do better on the 2nd time) was more important to her ego than practicing medicine. Get over yourselves.

I think that the majority of us agree with you. I don't see who you're spouting off at...and you're sounding pretty dang defensive
 
Furthermore, some of you guys are disrespectful... will make for a pretty humble med student and amazing physician, I'm sure. Caribbean = low pass rates and that's a fact. If that's what you chose and you're doing great, that's all that matters. I'm not shooting misconceptions out of my anal orifice like you guys are. DO schools have exceptionally high board pass rates and produce world class physicians regardless of admission stats. Yes, some Caribbean graduates make it but I'd hardly place them in the majority. The worst was my ex that just didn't become a physician because she didn't apply to DO... she would have been an M3 by now but instead is back in the admissions cycle... missed several years of school because improving her 26 MCAT (which she didn't even do better on the 2nd time) was more important to her ego than practicing medicine. Get over yourselves.

People need to get over this thing that assumes that all people with low stats have a monopoly on humility, compassion, and by reverse, all high stats must be full of themselves and complete jackasses.

Yes, DO's produce just fine physicians. So are some ridiculously high stat people. They are all over the spectrum, my friend (have you ever seen what Shemarty does for this forum?)

/rant
 
People need to get over this thing that assumes that all people with low stats have a monopoly on humility, compassion, and by reverse, all high stats must be full of themselves and complete jackasses.

Yes, DO's produce just fine physicians. So are some ridiculously high stat people. They are all over the spectrum, my friend (have you ever seen what Shemarty does for this forum?)

/rant

Read what I wrote very carefuly, not what you want to read. I've seen plenty of low stats people be extra cocky and pretend like they're too good for DO (like my ex). That's stupid and ignorant to the extreme. They'd rather not be physicians than learn more about DO's. That's not what I was getting at nor was it what I said - it was aimed at a couple people in here. I don't think that most DO's I've come across are any more humble than MDs (ridiculous assumption). Medical school is a humbling experience for everyone but it seems like premeds have it already figured out because they've been there and done that (sarcasm). Some might wake up during med school but I've met old doctors on both sides that haven't... which I suspect are the closed-minded ones that troll some of these boards... although I'm sure I've trolled my fair share 😉

Everyone in here should be fortunate for even being in a society where you can do this and you have so much support... MD, DO, PA, DMD, etc... this whole patronizing other professions or even different titles in the same profession as yours is despicable. Period. On the other hand, my initial main point is the factual data that Caribbean schools have really low pass rates.
 
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seriously if you are a college student who cannot get into a MD or DO school, that means you didn't study in college, had too much fun, or something around that scenario....caribbean schools are all about tuition and taking your money and then you end up in random residencies....I'd say DO>MD>Carib MD....DO's have same education as MD along with extra advantage: OMM
 
seriously if you are a college student who cannot get into a MD or DO school, that means you didn't study in college, had too much fun, or something around that scenario....caribbean schools are all about tuition and taking your money and then you end up in random residencies....I'd say DO>MD>Carib MD....DO's have same education as MD along with extra advantage: OMM

Amen... I think a student that would have done great in MD would have done just as great in DO + have OMM knowledge... if the "stats" of acceptances for DOs were equal to those of MDs, this wouldn't be an issue. Give it another 5-10 years... w/ the trend in DO stats, that'll shut them up. However, misinformed premeds in here think stats mean everything. NOBODY WILL CARE WHAT YOUR MCAT WAS WHEN YOU GRADUATE AND CUT INTO YOUR FIRST PATIENT. Life moves on... but these are the people that still talk about their JV high school football experiences when they're 50. Get over yourselves. Who are these know-it-all premeds that really judge what they haven't experienced?

http://internationaluniversities.suite101.com/article.cfm/about_caribbean_medical_schools

2006 COMLEX pass rate: 89%

http://www.im.org/Publications/Insight/Archives/2008/Volume6Issue4/Pages/COMLEX64.aspx

OP: I hope this gives you a clear answer lol... I've been to several DO's (one for sinus surgery) and they've all been exceptional physicians. It's ridiculous to even have to defend DOs... but some of you in here are just as ridiculous when it comes to ignorance.
 
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seriously if you are a college student who cannot get into a MD or DO school, that means you didn't study in college, had too much fun, or something around that scenario....caribbean schools are all about tuition and taking your money and then you end up in random residencies....I'd say DO>MD>Carib MD....DO's have same education as MD along with extra advantage: OMM

I wouldn't be so judgmental about someone who was unable to get into medical school. The application process is extremely difficult, and just because someone studies does not result in an acceptance to medical school. Also, what do you mean by "random" residencies in Caribbean schools?

And just because DO has OMM doesn't mean it's superior to MD. What's ridiculous is that you're probably not going to get flamed for saying DO>MD while someone who says MD>DO in this thread is going to get bashed about being disrespectful, ignorant, and cocky.
 
Amen... I think a student that would have done great in MD would have done just as great in DO + have OMM knowledge... if the "stats" of acceptances for DOs were equal to those of MDs, this wouldn't be an issue. Give it another 5-10 years... w/ the trend in DO stats, that'll shut them up. However, misinformed premeds in here think stats mean everything. NOBODY WILL CARE WHAT YOUR MCAT WAS WHEN YOU GRADUATE AND CUT INTO YOUR FIRST PATIENT. Life moves on... but these are the people that still talk about their JV high school football experiences when they're 50. Get over yourselves. Who are these know-it-all premeds that really judge what they haven't experienced?

http://internationaluniversities.suite101.com/article.cfm/about_caribbean_medical_schools

2006 COMLEX pass rate: 89%

http://www.im.org/Publications/Insight/Archives/2008/Volume6Issue4/Pages/COMLEX64.aspx

OP: I hope this gives you a clear answer lol... I've been to several DO's (one for sinus surgery) and they've all been exceptional physicians. It's ridiculous to even have to defend DOs... but some of you in here are just as ridiculous when it comes to ignorance.


Here is the truth: People stop caring about your MCAT score on the day that you start med school. It no longer matters at that point. Nobody talks about or even thinks about the MCAT.

But the focus then shifts to your USMLE Step 1 score, given its importance in obtaining competitive residencies. Second year students obsess about Step 1 scores. But on the day that you start your residency, nobody cares about your Step 1 score anymore. Life moves on.
 
seriously if you are a college student who cannot get into a MD or DO school, that means you didn't study in college, had too much fun, or something around that scenario....caribbean schools are all about tuition and taking your money and then you end up in random residencies....I'd say DO>MD>Carib MD....DO's have same education as MD along with extra advantage: OMM

You really have no room to talk. Random residencies? I think you're referring to the relatively spread-out ROTATIONS you'll wind up doing if you make it that far. Additionally, just because you learn OMM in DO school doesn't mean it's an inherent advantage.
 
Amen... I think a student that would have done great in MD would have done just as great in DO + have OMM knowledge... if the "stats" of acceptances for DOs were equal to those of MDs, this wouldn't be an issue. Give it another 5-10 years... w/ the trend in DO stats, that'll shut them up. However, misinformed premeds in here think stats mean everything. NOBODY WILL CARE WHAT YOUR MCAT WAS WHEN YOU GRADUATE AND CUT INTO YOUR FIRST PATIENT. Life moves on... but these are the people that still talk about their JV high school football experiences when they're 50. Get over yourselves. Who are these know-it-all premeds that really judge what they haven't experienced?

http://internationaluniversities.suite101.com/article.cfm/about_caribbean_medical_schools

2006 COMLEX pass rate: 89%

http://www.im.org/Publications/Insight/Archives/2008/Volume6Issue4/Pages/COMLEX64.aspx

OP: I hope this gives you a clear answer lol... I've been to several DO's (one for sinus surgery) and they've all been exceptional physicians. It's ridiculous to even have to defend DOs... but some of you in here are just as ridiculous when it comes to ignorance.

I don't understand why you're taking on the burden of righteous anger that really isn't yours to have. We get it...DO=MD in terms of training; you're arguing against a conflict that isn't really to be had right now.
 
Furthermore, some of you guys are disrespectful... will make for a pretty humble med student and amazing physician, I'm sure. Caribbean = low pass rates and that's a fact. If that's what you chose and you're doing great, that's all that matters. I'm not shooting misconceptions out of my anal orifice like you guys are. DO schools have exceptionally high board pass rates and produce world class physicians regardless of admission stats. Yes, some Caribbean graduates make it but I'd hardly place them in the majority. The worst was my ex that just didn't become a physician because she didn't apply to DO... she would have been an M3 by now but instead is back in the admissions cycle... missed several years of school because improving her 26 MCAT (which she didn't even do better on the 2nd time) was more important to her ego than practicing medicine. Get over yourselves.

Dude, not all Caribbean schools are the same. There are those with match lists comparable to DO schools (oh noes! I've burst your bubble again +pity+). You seem pretty disrespectful of anyone not gung-ho about DO schools. DOs again are a viable option, but is it just as good as an MD option? Maybe so, maybe not. You've voiced your breathless opinions and I've posted match lists to compare. But the fact that you then go on bashing Caribbean schools makes me think your ego isn't smaller than anyone else's, it's just rationalized differently. If you do go into a DO school, when you do your rotations, you would find many who are from the Caribbean as well as from stateside MD schools, will you look down on the Caribbean students and smugly laugh at the stateside MD students for being in the same place as you?
 
Same prereqs + DO or physician letter. They also look for people with life and work experience and a lot more than just looking good on paper. Why anyone would want a Dr. with no work experience other than in his 30s is beyond me. With that said I'm non-traditional and I've got enough MD and DO interviews this year to take a pick... but you guys looking down on DO's are PATHETIC... who the hell are you to have a professional opinion in something you clearly don't understand?
i'm non-traditional too. i don't see how this would impact MD/DO? plenty of MD schools like non-traditional applicants.
i never looked down on DOs. i just think it's quite a stretch to suggest that DOs have higher standards of admissions than MDs. "looking for people with life and work experience" - uh...yeah who are you to say MD schools don't do that?

at the same time, you bash caribbean MD schools but it's ok to put DOs on a pedestal? haha ok buddy.
 
Let me know if this is a duplicate point, because I wasn't about to go searching through the whole thread, but most people I know who head to the Caribbean do it for the sake of timing (some schools have fall and spring semester starts) They could have just as easily done a post-bacc or worked on their MCATS, but just wanted to go ahead and get started....
my 20 pesos
 
I'm just glad this did not turn into a big MD vs. DO thing, that would have been lame.:beat:
I would much rather go to a DO school than the island schools, but that's me. I'm sure that there are some great doc's that take that route, but I would not want to risk it.
 
Depends what it is for. I do have a big issue with being taught pseudoscience. I don't want to learn creationism in science class, and I don't want to learn cranial in medical school. It's very fair enough that I don't have to pay attention, but why is it taught as a legitimate treatment modality?

👍 +1
 
Because Caribbean schools are easier to get into than DO schools. DO schools have MD+++ standards when it comes to acceptance but there just aren't as many schools and recognition... therefore less applicants and less high-stat applicants. Have you seen the Caribbean board pass rates... abysmal. Those students are no longer in pursuit of a medical degree for the sake of medicine - they just want those 2 letters by their name at all costs. Despicable. Not to mention most of those schools are FOR PROFIT.

And redsquareblack, OMM? Get off your high horse. You're ignorant. How much OMM have you observed? Do your research buddy, there's plenty of MD schools offering OMM as an elective and it's a proven technique that both MD's and DO's respect... but not ignorant know-it-all premeds for some reason have NO clue what it is.

Ignorant trolls like some of you guys on here is why there's such a misconception of DOs. DO = MD and some of the best primary care schools in the US are DO. PCOM, LECOM to name a couple can run circles around most MD schools... not to mention places like LECOM-B had years with 100% pass rates on their boards. Compare that to any Caribbean school.

I'm still trying to figure out what you were thinking when you wrote this ridiculous post.

Wait, I thought DOs were witch doctors...

hahaha

Double troll fail 👎

👍
 
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