Why do people go to the carribean when they can do D.O?

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then perhaps you should elucidate and answer the questions asked rather than stroke your ego

Why are pre-meds so cocky and full of themselves. So many of them think they know everything because they spend all their time on some websites. A newly found pastime of mine is to watch a cocky, arrogant class of brand new MSI's become slowly humbled by the process of medical education. You will be constantly humbled in medical school. The one thing ive learned is to respect the opinions of those who are further along in the process. Every time i get advice from older Med students, residents, or attendings i treat it like gospel.
 
Why are pre-meds so cocky and full of themselves. So many of them think they know everything because they spend all their time on some websites. A newly found pastime of mine is to watch a cocky, arrogant class of brand new MSI's become slowly humbled by the process of medical education. You will be constantly humbled in medical school. The one thing ive learned is to respect the opinions of those who are further along in the process. Every time i get advice from older Med students, residents, or attendings i treat it like gospel.

Let me guess, you went to a DO school. :yawn:

Not all premeds are at the same place in life. Some have worked for many years in demanding careers before deciding on medicine, others are mothers or fathers. Just because you are now a med student (M2?) doesn't give you an edge on humbleness. And you must've missed the irony in the last two pages of people like yourself arrogantly calling others arrogant because their opinions disagreed with yours.
 
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seriously if you are a college student who cannot get into a MD or DO school, that means you didn't study in college, had too much fun, or something around that scenario....caribbean schools are all about tuition and taking your money and then you end up in random residencies....I'd say DO>MD>Carib MD....DO's have same education as MD along with extra advantage: OMM
a) How is OMM an advantage? It is a crock of ****. I don't look down on DOs in general, but I do look down on DOs that believe in OMM, the same that I look down on MDs that believe in it.

b) Although DOs theoretically have the same residencies as MD, it is tough for anyone in their right mind to deny the fact that a DO is going to have a much harder time getting into a competitive residency than an MD with similar stats. There is a reason there are very few DOs in plastics, ortho, etc and it has nothing to do with board scores or intelligence.
 
Why are pre-meds so cocky and full of themselves. So many of them think they know everything because they spend all their time on some websites. A newly found pastime of mine is to watch a cocky, arrogant class of brand new MSI's become slowly humbled by the process of medical education. You will be constantly humbled in medical school. The one thing ive learned is to respect the opinions of those who are further along in the process. Every time i get advice from older Med students, residents, or attendings i treat it like gospel.
hahaha alright then. keep on keeping on.
 
Why are pre-meds so cocky and full of themselves. So many of them think they know everything because they spend all their time on some websites. A newly found pastime of mine is to watch a cocky, arrogant class of brand new MSI's become slowly humbled by the process of medical education. You will be constantly humbled in medical school. The one thing ive learned is to respect the opinions of those who are further along in the process. Every time i get advice from older Med students, residents, or attendings i treat it like gospel.
Jumping off bridges got me into med school.
 
Why are pre-meds so cocky and full of themselves. So many of them think they know everything because they spend all their time on some websites. A newly found pastime of mine is to watch a cocky, arrogant class of brand new MSI's become slowly humbled by the process of medical education. You will be constantly humbled in medical school. The one thing ive learned is to respect the opinions of those who are further along in the process. Every time i get advice from older Med students, residents, or attendings i treat it like gospel.

So to those med residents and attendings that tell you not to go to med school and do "anything else you can picture yourself doing," do you listen to them? Opinions are just that...opinions...

Let me guess, you went to a DO school. :yawn:

Not all premeds are at the same place in life. Some have worked for many years in demanding careers before deciding on medicine, others are mothers or fathers. Just because you are now a med student (M2?) doesn't give you an edge on humbleness. And you must've missed the irony in the last two pages of people like yourself arrogantly calling others arrogant because their opinions disagreed with yours.

Great Post

The sooner people can understand what this guy is saying, the better. I see too many people with the idea that all premeds are 18 years old, fresh out of highschool, and haven't worked a day in their life, it gets old...
 
So to those med residents and attendings that tell you not to go to med school and do "anything else you can picture yourself doing," do you listen to them? Opinions are just that...opinions...



Great Post

The sooner people can understand what this guy is saying, the better. I see too many people with the idea that all premeds are 18 years old, fresh out of highschool, and haven't worked a day in their life, it gets old...
+1... and it's post number 400 for me! Not really a big deal except it's the first time I actually looked at my post number before a century mark, lol
 
IMO, anyone wanting to practice medicine needs to keep their eyes on the prize: providing quality patient care. If my mom had a brain tumor, going to Harvard, Ross, etc., takes no part in how I evaluate the quality of care being provided. Ultimately, you will play a bigger role than the school you attend in determining the kind of physician you will be. Be good, ambitious, work hard and you'll be fine regardless of where you go. ./cliche_remark(End)
 
I went to an allopathic school outside of the US. I have M.D. behind my name now and am practicing at an Ivy League residency program that does not accept D.O. candidates. I loved my time outside of the US, I had no overnight call, and I got to learn about innovative low budget solutions to medical problems. I don't regret it. To read more on my blog empudate.blogspot.com

There's a residency program in this country that will take foreign trained MD's but won't take DO's? That's ridiculous. DO's work at all the hospitals in the country,
 
PCOM DO school versus #39 Ranked MD school Match List comparison:

PCOM (top DO school) Match List
Class size: 250


I don't know why people consider PCOM the top DO school. It isn't IMO. Their match list this year wasn't at all impressive. Take LECOM-B instead. They had two people who matched MD ortho. Take KCUMB. They had Ivy League and Hopkins residency matches. PCOM may be well respected but other DO schools come out on tops as far as board pass rates and matching goes. LECOM had a 100% pass rate.
 
Just to mention the stat thing that some are claiming, DO stats are going up. Many schools now have a 3.6 GPA and 27-28 MCAT average. It's not your traditional 22, 3.3 will get you in.
 
I'm already accepted to a US MD school, but if I couldn't get into one, I would go DO over Carribean.

HOWEVER, most of my friends would NOT. most of my friends would go Caribbean MD, though. they say simply because "they would constantly be reminded they couldn't get into a US MD school everytime they saw the DO after their name." haha, while I think that is a bit harsh, I can see where they are coming from. I know I would also eel this way if I had to go DO. my family is full of MDs. I would never hear the end of it. if your own family is going to look down on you for it (even if they say they don't care I know they'd judge me for it), then that's a good enough reason not to go DO. it'd suck. the opinion of your family DOES matter. pride does come into play. I wish it weren't so.

now, if you simply wanted to go DO over MD, then I would definitely go DO. I would apply to MD schools to prove to my family I could get in, then I'd go DO. I've only known one person in my life who has ever chosen DO over MD, though. she applied to 5 DO schools, got into all of them (which isn't hard haha) and applied to 1 MD school, got invited to interview and then TURNED it down. haha
 
Both allopathic caribbean MD students and osteopathic US DO students are confident to practice medicine. I would say that both are equal in difficulty for acceptance. My reasoning for that is offshore MD schools don't allow retakes in courses, but have slightly lower requirements. DO makes the compromise in that a student can retake courses he or she did poorly in. Therefore I believe they are similar difficulty as far as acceptance goes. An osteopathic student could have gotten several bad grades, made a turnaround, and recieved As in courses, whereas a caribbean bound individual may take many post bacc courses only to raise their GPA in very small increments to have a chance at acceptance.
 
epic bump!!!!!!!!

You people worry way too much about pride and what other people think.
 
Whats wrong with getting an MD just for the 2 letters.
What real benefit do you get from the DO (and please dont give anecdotal garbage here) degree that can aid you and is superior to the MD.

I would recommend everyone going for the MD.
MDs are much stronger, more organized and do more for each other. Who has really heard of the AOA in any significant fashion?

I am surprised MD programs are gracious enough to let DOs do residency at their sites when DOs clearly are not willing to do the same.
There is no reason for 2 degrees anymore other than power (what little the AOA has over its members).
 
Whats wrong with getting an MD just for the 2 letters.
What real benefit do you get from the DO (and please dont give anecdotal garbage here) degree that can aid you and is superior to the MD.

Location, clinical affiliates, interested in OMM, $$. I suppose location is the biggest. I chose DO over MD for that reason. Neither initials are superior in the real world. You need to go where you will perform the best.
 
Whats wrong with getting an MD just for the 2 letters.
What real benefit do you get from the DO (and please dont give anecdotal garbage here) degree that can aid you and is superior to the MD.

I would recommend everyone going for the MD.
MDs are much stronger, more organized and do more for each other. Who has really heard of the AOA in any significant fashion?

I am surprised MD programs are gracious enough to let DOs do residency at their sites when DOs clearly are not willing to do the same.
There is no reason for 2 degrees anymore other than power (what little the AOA has over its members).

This point is completely wrong, and here is why .... residency.

You can say MDs are stronger, more organized, etc, but this spirit of connection and strength means absolutely nothing unless you are a physician that is able to obtain a residency and become licensed to practice medicine. The FACT is that last year's match rate for ACGME residencies was 47.8% for FMG vs a 70% match rate for DOs. Now, this also does not take into account the fact that DOs have their own set of AOA funded residencies that only DOs can apply for, and many apply to both ACGME and AOA and are removed from the ACGME match if they rank and match an AOA position. What you are essentially saying is that people should take a 50% chance at matching, simply because MDs are a more unified, dedicated group? I also find this comment completely laughable, considering how disorganized and un-unified physicians are as a whole. If they really were such a tight organization, the AMA would represent more than 18% of them, and they would be taking a much more progressive, higher lobbying power towards negative changes.

It's great to say that being an MD is more respected or will get you into a more exclusive club, but if you don't match ... you're not going to be in this guild, because you won't be able to practice. There was recently an article posted on this site about a student from Ross University who went to the Caribbean, racked up 250k in debt, was unable to match, and is now working construction in Washington, DC, and renting a room from his son (http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/...cle1061189.ece). Do you think this guy finds any comfort in the fact that he's part of a more unified, well known group? I doubt it.

Now, I'm not trying to be anti-Caribbean, and I'm sorry if it came off the way. The fact is that there are a lot of people out there who simply want the MD behind their name, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. If this is what you want, god bless. Go down to the Caribbean (assuming you don't get into US MD), attend one of the big 3, work hard, and bust your ass to match. Obviously people come from the Caribbean every year and are very successful. However, for an 'attending,' to solicit such advice without weighing the options that are far more important, is irresponsible.

Again, sorry if I offended anyone ... it wasn't my intent. I just clearly think that if you are okay with the DO, going to a US DO school is a much safer bet and will maximize your chances at success.
 
Deleting my account!!
 
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I've gotten accepted in a few DO schools and interviewed and waitlisted at an MD school and am waiting to hear back from other MD schools. For me, my first choice would be a US allopathic school. However, if it comes down to a DO vs Caribbean school, I got into SGU, I will definitely need to think about this one. My reason has nothing to do with MD vs DO though. Three of my cousins have come out of Caribbean MD schools and are doing very well right now as physicians. We all had 30+ MCAT scores but the verbal of 8 is somewhat lacking for some med schools. I know that I am not them but I also know that I can do well in medical school also.

Hopefully I'll get off the waitlist or get more interviews as an American MD schools is my preference and this isn't a dilemma anymore :luck::xf::luck:
 
I'm really sad that arrogant, judgmental people are allowed to become doctors. My goal in becoming a physician is to heal and help people. I want to be a doctor who listens to my patients. How can we care for our patients if we think we are better than them, or better than other doctors for that matter? In becoming physicians we should strive to strengthen each other and our patients.

I'm a first year at an osteopathic medical school. I applied to both allopathic and osteopathic institutions and withdrew my applications from allopathic schools when I found out about the philosophy behind the D.O. initials. I was a strong applicant, but decided I wanted to be in school with like minded individuals. My fellow classmates are incredibly supportive of each other and will make amazing doctors...and it is not because they had outstanding MCAT scores (though many of them did). They care about people and want to practice medicine for all of the right reasons. We have MD faculty, in addition to our DOs. I respect both, and respect any doctor who can humble himself in a way that allows him to care for patients' mind, body and spirit.

Osteopathic medicine is not just about OMM...it is a philosophy. This philosophy is not unlike anything many MDs practice, but it is our approach to our patients that sets us apart. The body is a unit...with structure and function being entirely interrelated. DOs study the same medicine, but approach it differently...and approach patients differently.

I have great respect for MDs, and believe that any MD can adopt this same philosophy and employ it in their practice without attending a DO school. But for all of you applicants out there...DO school is about being with like minded individuals and approaching medicine from a particular philosophy with the patient at the center of it all. Regardless of what schooling you choose...the patient should always remain at the center, or maybe medicine isn't the field for you.
 
Osteopathic medicine is not just about OMM...it is a philosophy. This philosophy is not unlike anything many MDs practice, but it is our approach to our patients that sets us apart. The body is a unit...with structure and function being entirely interrelated. DOs study the same medicine, but approach it differently...and approach patients differently.

Come back at the end of 4th year and you'll laugh at this. When you rotate with MD students during 3rd and 4th years you will see there really isn't any difference in philosophy or approach. Allopathic students take the "whole body" approach as well when making diagnoses.
 
i would not go to either...

i would try for a UK med school or Australia med school, if I cant go to a US MD school... this way you can still practice there, have an MD after your name, and they provide more than enough adequate knowledge to easily do well on the USMLE... not to mention that these schools are more well-respected than any carrib school in PD...
 
i would not go to either...

i would try for a UK med school or Australia med school, if I cant go to a US MD school... this way you can still practice there, have an MD after your name, and they provide more than enough adequate knowledge to easily do well on the USMLE... not to mention that these schools are more well-respected than any carrib school in PD...

Wrong. This is exactly what NOT to do and worse than going DO or Carib, as residents have already told you you are incorrect in the pre-allo forum but you refuse to listen (pre-med thinks he knows more than residents). Just because you personally think UK or Austrailian med schools are more prestigious does not mean anything in the real world. Doing clinicals in the UK or Austrailia will 100% screw you when it comes time for applying for residencies in the US. As an example:

http://www.med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/residency/17-apply.html
"We only interview foreign medical school graduates who have significant clinical experience in the US and have done research."

This is why we don't listen to advice from pre-meds.
 
Wrong. This is exactly what NOT to do and worse than going DO or Carib, as residents have already told you you are incorrect in the pre-allo forum but you refuse to listen (pre-med thinks he knows more than residents). Just because you personally think UK or Austrailian med schools are more prestigious does not mean anything in the real world. Doing clinicals in the UK or Austrailia will 100% screw you when it comes time for applying for residencies in the US. As an example:

http://www.med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/residency/17-apply.html
"We only interview foreign medical school graduates who have significant clinical experience in the US and have done research."

This is why we don't listen to advice from pre-meds.

but it is not hard to doing us clinicials if you are a US citizen.. the problem is for non-us citizens

and you may not know this, but i know of some physicians from UK who did med school there, did residency there, did fellowship there... came here and only did fellowship... and are now faculty in the department of their speciality... so that is an alternative route you can do also... just not sure how they bypassed residency.
 
but it is not hard to doing us clinicials if you are a US citizen.. the problem is for non-us citizens

and you may not know this, but i know of some physicians from UK who did med school there, did residency there, did fellowship there... came here and only did fellowship... and are now faculty in the department of their speciality... so that is an alternative route you can do also... just not sure how they bypassed residency.

Wrong again. Regardless of citizenship, you may be allowed 1 or 2 max electives in the US coming from the UK but the majority of your rotations are done in the UK or wherever you went to school. I rotated with US citizen students doing their one US elective from these countries. One went to school in Ireland, the other Austrailia. Needless to say, they were banking all their money on landing residency in the one hospital they did their single US elective and were praying for a prematch from them.

I am not up to fellowship yet so I cannot comment on residents from an Austrailia/UK residency coming to the US or the hoops they'd have to jump through. But the point is if you go to school in the UK there's a good chance you will end up there for at least 7 - 10 years or matching into a lower quality US residency that doesn't require US clinical experience. You are 100% absolutely better off going to a DO or Carib school that has US clinical rotations, but believe whatever you want.
 
I'm really sad that arrogant, judgmental people are allowed to become doctors. My goal in becoming a physician is to heal and help people. I want to be a doctor who listens to my patients. How can we care for our patients if we think we are better than them, or better than other doctors for that matter? In becoming physicians we should strive to strengthen each other and our patients.

I'm a first year at an osteopathic medical school. I applied to both allopathic and osteopathic institutions and withdrew my applications from allopathic schools when I found out about the philosophy behind the D.O. initials. I was a strong applicant, but decided I wanted to be in school with like minded individuals. My fellow classmates are incredibly supportive of each other and will make amazing doctors...and it is not because they had outstanding MCAT scores (though many of them did). They care about people and want to practice medicine for all of the right reasons. We have MD faculty, in addition to our DOs. I respect both, and respect any doctor who can humble himself in a way that allows him to care for patients' mind, body and spirit.

Osteopathic medicine is not just about OMM...it is a philosophy. This philosophy is not unlike anything many MDs practice, but it is our approach to our patients that sets us apart. The body is a unit...with structure and function being entirely interrelated. DOs study the same medicine, but approach it differently...and approach patients differently.

I have great respect for MDs, and believe that any MD can adopt this same philosophy and employ it in their practice without attending a DO school. But for all of you applicants out there...DO school is about being with like minded individuals and approaching medicine from a particular philosophy with the patient at the center of it all. Regardless of what schooling you choose...the patient should always remain at the center, or maybe medicine isn't the field for you.

Look, I'm thrilled that you're so passionate about your profession. If anything, I find that a lot of students who go to DO or Carib schools who had originally applied to (and preferred) US-MD schools are incredibly passionate and committed because they realize they'll have to work harder to achieve the same goals. I applaud commitment and work ethic in general, so yay.

On the other hand, I'm kinda sick of reading about how DOs have a "different philosophy" that allows them to treat patients differently, with more compassion or whatever; to then read a couple of posts later that DOs and MDs are exactly the same and anyone who doesn't think so is a frickin idiot.

I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways. You're either the same or you're not. Spouting stuff about "different philosophies" and "different ways of looking at patients" and a "more holistic admission practice" implies that you're not, in fact, the same as MD schools, in which case you'll have to accept that some people think your way is stupid and/or not valid. But of course as soon as someone says something like "the philosophy isn't for me" then 10 DO students come in and talk about how the philosophy is the same and we're all trained the same so we're ignorant *****s. I'm sorry, but you have to choose, you're either equal or you're not.

Personally, I've worked with both DOs and MDs and I have met great and terrible doctors from both walks of life. One of the DOs I worked with hated being a DO and insisted that she wanted to have "Dr. X" on her coat instead of "X, DO". Others were incredibly proud of their background. But for the most part, no one talked about it because there was more important stuff to talk about- patient care. And for that matter, it's the same deal with IMGs. Once you have your training and board certification, no one cares.

Also, implying that DO > MD because of OMM is hilarious. So wait, does my research project give me extra points? What about my electives? I took a healthcare econ class last semester, if I count that plus my research project, does that mean that my MD > your DO? Maybe I should add more electives, then my MD >>> every MD evar.

And finally, as for admissions. It's nice to think that they look at students more "globally" while MD schools only care about numbers. It's a nice thought that's common about both DO applicants and, actually, Carib applicants (read any of their admission pages- that's their "admission philosophy" too, and they too love non trads cause of their "enriching life experiences"). I'm not saying that it's categorically false. But to generalize the 100+ MD schools in this country as number ****** while DO schools are the Mother Theresas of the admission process is, well, ignorant, to use a much abused word on this thread (not to mention the fact that it underscores inequality yet again!). I'm a non-trad with life experiences and go to an MD school. As are all the other non-trads with life experiences at my MD school. I don't know that many students at DO schools, so all the people I know who were like me...are at MD schools. Not everyone had great numbers (myself included). We all just had a good "package" that the MD schools we got into liked. It's that simple. I can assure you, if MD schools had a numbers-only admission process, I wouldn't be where I am now.

If you're doubting my words, spend a couple of hours looking through some pre-allo threads. You'll find tons of examples of kids with amazing numbers who didn't get into the schools they wanted and are wondering wtf happened there. Usually the answer has to do with the "intangibles"- personality, recommendations, life experiences. All those things you seem to imply are exclusively used in DO schools. I'd love for you to write in one of those threads "well, it's cause MD schools only care about one thing". I'm sure their 3.9/40 selves will find that to be a riot.

Oh, and I do love that the person who talked a big talk about our ignorance and arrogance is a pre-med who hasn't started med school yet. Cool.
 
The FACT is that last year's match rate for ACGME residencies was 47.8% for FMG vs a 70% match rate for DOs. Now, this also does not take into account the fact that DOs have their own set of AOA funded residencies that only DOs can apply for, and many apply to both ACGME and AOA and are removed from the ACGME match if they rank and match an AOA position.

I believe that 70% does take into account the participants who are withdrawn during the AOA match:

2009 DO match:
1,794 participants (100%)
1,433 matched (80%)
361 unmatched (20%)

2009 NRMP match (DO applicants):
2,875 registered (100%)
706 withdrew (25%)
154 no rank list (5%)
2,015 active (70%)

2,015 active (100%)
1,408 matched (70%)
607 unmatched (30%)

Both matches:
3,809 participants (100%)
2,841 matched (75%)
968 unmatched (25%)

Overall, it is clear that a generic DO will outperform a generic US-IMG. It would also seem that some of the criticisms aimed at international study can also be waged against osteopathic study, albeit to a lesser degree.

Good thing my flame suit just came back from the cleaners.
 
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i would not go to either...

i would try for a UK med school or Australia med school, if I cant go to a US MD school... this way you can still practice there, have an MD after your name, and they provide more than enough adequate knowledge to easily do well on the USMLE... not to mention that these schools are more well-respected than any carrib school in PD...

Going to UK MD school = not trained for USMLE, not able to practice in certain states (IE CA) unless you do your clinicals in the UK, and worse matching because PDs will be unfamiliar with your program, whereas they at least know Caribbean schools train to the US model.
 
I believe that 70% does take into account the participants who are withdrawn during the AOA match:

2009 DO match:
1,794 participants (100%)
1,433 matched (80%)
361 unmatched (20%)

2009 ACGME match (DO applicants):
2,875 registered (100%)
706 withdrew (25%)
154 no rank list (5%)
2,015 active (70%)

2,015 active (100%)
1,408 matched (70%)
607 unmatched (30%)

Both matches:
3,809 participants (100%)
2,841 matched (75%)
968 unmatched (25%)

Overall, it is clear that a generic DO will outperform a generic US-IMG. It would also seem that some of the criticisms aimed at international study can also be waged against osteopathic study, albeit to a lesser degree.

Good thing my flame suit just came back from the cleaners.

There are always little idiosyncrasies with regard to AOA/ACGME overlap. Frankly, I've heard so many theories about how people are labeled with regards to the ACGME stats, that I can't even comment ... it just confuses me. However, I do agree that DOs match better in ACGME than US-IMGs, without taking AOA residencies (DO only) into account.
 
There are always little idiosyncrasies with regard to AOA/ACGME overlap. Frankly, I've heard so many theories about how people are labeled with regards to the ACGME stats, that I can't even comment ... it just confuses me.

I think it is safe to say that those who match AOA and are withdrawn from the NRMP* are not counted as active applicants, do not maintain a rank order list certification, are not fed through the match algorithm, and are not possibly matched into an ACGME program (which would result in a binding agreements between the parties). The active DOs in the allopathic match either 1.) participated in the AOA match but were not successful, or 2). did not participate in the AOA match.


*It is the NRMP that administers the main match. The ACGME is the body that accredits allopathic residency programs.
 
Look, I'm thrilled that you're so passionate about your profession. If anything, I find that a lot of students who go to DO or Carib schools who had originally applied to (and preferred) US-MD schools are incredibly passionate and committed because they realize they'll have to work harder to achieve the same goals. I applaud commitment and work ethic in general, so yay.

On the other hand, I'm kinda sick of reading about how DOs have a "different philosophy" that allows them to treat patients differently, with more compassion or whatever; to then read a couple of posts later that DOs and MDs are exactly the same and anyone who doesn't think so is a frickin idiot.

I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways. You're either the same or you're not. Spouting stuff about "different philosophies" and "different ways of looking at patients" and a "more holistic admission practice" implies that you're not, in fact, the same as MD schools, in which case you'll have to accept that some people think your way is stupid and/or not valid. But of course as soon as someone says something like "the philosophy isn't for me" then 10 DO students come in and talk about how the philosophy is the same and we're all trained the same so we're ignorant *****s. I'm sorry, but you have to choose, you're either equal or you're not.

Personally, I've worked with both DOs and MDs and I have met great and terrible doctors from both walks of life. One of the DOs I worked with hated being a DO and insisted that she wanted to have "Dr. X" on her coat instead of "X, DO". Others were incredibly proud of their background. But for the most part, no one talked about it because there was more important stuff to talk about- patient care. And for that matter, it's the same deal with IMGs. Once you have your training and board certification, no one cares.

Also, implying that DO > MD because of OMM is hilarious. So wait, does my research project give me extra points? What about my electives? I took a healthcare econ class last semester, if I count that plus my research project, does that mean that my MD > your DO? Maybe I should add more electives, then my MD >>> every MD evar.

And finally, as for admissions. It's nice to think that they look at students more "globally" while MD schools only care about numbers. It's a nice thought that's common about both DO applicants and, actually, Carib applicants (read any of their admission pages- that's their "admission philosophy" too, and they too love non trads cause of their "enriching life experiences"). I'm not saying that it's categorically false. But to generalize the 100+ MD schools in this country as number ****** while DO schools are the Mother Theresas of the admission process is, well, ignorant, to use a much abused word on this thread (not to mention the fact that it underscores inequality yet again!). I'm a non-trad with life experiences and go to an MD school. As are all the other non-trads with life experiences at my MD school. I don't know that many students at DO schools, so all the people I know who were like me...are at MD schools. Not everyone had great numbers (myself included). We all just had a good "package" that the MD schools we got into liked. It's that simple. I can assure you, if MD schools had a numbers-only admission process, I wouldn't be where I am now.

If you're doubting my words, spend a couple of hours looking through some pre-allo threads. You'll find tons of examples of kids with amazing numbers who didn't get into the schools they wanted and are wondering wtf happened there. Usually the answer has to do with the "intangibles"- personality, recommendations, life experiences. All those things you seem to imply are exclusively used in DO schools. I'd love for you to write in one of those threads "well, it's cause MD schools only care about one thing". I'm sure their 3.9/40 selves will find that to be a riot.

Oh, and I do love that the person who talked a big talk about our ignorance and arrogance is a pre-med who hasn't started med school yet. Cool.

/thread

Damn, Now that's what I call a POST!!!
 
Look, I'm thrilled that you're so passionate about your profession. If anything, I find that a lot of students who go to DO or Carib schools who had originally applied to (and preferred) US-MD schools are incredibly passionate and committed because they realize they'll have to work harder to achieve the same goals. I applaud commitment and work ethic in general, so yay. <snip verbal diarrhea>

The only people who go on and on about the stupid philosophy and "looking at the whole applicant" are pre-meds or insecure 1st year DO students. Neither have the life experiences to know what they're talking about and are just regurgitating what they've heard other people say. Talk to any resident or practicing physician and they tell you it's all nonsense. The degrees are the same. The philosophy is the same. The stats for the DO and carib school admission is lower because that's their applicant pool. Don't listen to pre-meds. End of story.
 
Please do not listen to passionate premeds. They have some one sided views. I used to be like that, but I learned to take it easy with people. Really, it's their choice to why they went Carib, none of us have any clue--only the people that choose carib do.
 
Look, I'm thrilled that you're so passionate about your profession. If anything, I find that a lot of students who go to DO or Carib schools who had originally applied to (and preferred) US-MD schools are incredibly passionate and committed because they realize they'll have to work harder to achieve the same goals. I applaud commitment and work ethic in general, so yay.

On the other hand, I'm kinda sick of reading about how DOs have a "different philosophy" that allows them to treat patients differently, with more compassion or whatever; to then read a couple of posts later that DOs and MDs are exactly the same and anyone who doesn't think so is a frickin idiot.

I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways. You're either the same or you're not. Spouting stuff about "different philosophies" and "different ways of looking at patients" and a "more holistic admission practice" implies that you're not, in fact, the same as MD schools, in which case you'll have to accept that some people think your way is stupid and/or not valid. But of course as soon as someone says something like "the philosophy isn't for me" then 10 DO students come in and talk about how the philosophy is the same and we're all trained the same so we're ignorant *****s. I'm sorry, but you have to choose, you're either equal or you're not.

Personally, I've worked with both DOs and MDs and I have met great and terrible doctors from both walks of life. One of the DOs I worked with hated being a DO and insisted that she wanted to have "Dr. X" on her coat instead of "X, DO". Others were incredibly proud of their background. But for the most part, no one talked about it because there was more important stuff to talk about- patient care. And for that matter, it's the same deal with IMGs. Once you have your training and board certification, no one cares.

Also, implying that DO > MD because of OMM is hilarious. So wait, does my research project give me extra points? What about my electives? I took a healthcare econ class last semester, if I count that plus my research project, does that mean that my MD > your DO? Maybe I should add more electives, then my MD >>> every MD evar.

And finally, as for admissions. It's nice to think that they look at students more "globally" while MD schools only care about numbers. It's a nice thought that's common about both DO applicants and, actually, Carib applicants (read any of their admission pages- that's their "admission philosophy" too, and they too love non trads cause of their "enriching life experiences"). I'm not saying that it's categorically false. But to generalize the 100+ MD schools in this country as number ****** while DO schools are the Mother Theresas of the admission process is, well, ignorant, to use a much abused word on this thread (not to mention the fact that it underscores inequality yet again!). I'm a non-trad with life experiences and go to an MD school. As are all the other non-trads with life experiences at my MD school. I don't know that many students at DO schools, so all the people I know who were like me...are at MD schools. Not everyone had great numbers (myself included). We all just had a good "package" that the MD schools we got into liked. It's that simple. I can assure you, if MD schools had a numbers-only admission process, I wouldn't be where I am now.

If you're doubting my words, spend a couple of hours looking through some pre-allo threads. You'll find tons of examples of kids with amazing numbers who didn't get into the schools they wanted and are wondering wtf happened there. Usually the answer has to do with the "intangibles"- personality, recommendations, life experiences. All those things you seem to imply are exclusively used in DO schools. I'd love for you to write in one of those threads "well, it's cause MD schools only care about one thing". I'm sure their 3.9/40 selves will find that to be a riot.

Oh, and I do love that the person who talked a big talk about our ignorance and arrogance is a pre-med who hasn't started med school yet. Cool.

This should be stickied above every MD vs DO thread. 👍
 
I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways. You're either the same or you're not. Spouting stuff about "different philosophies" and "different ways of looking at patients" and a "more holistic admission practice" implies that you're not, in fact, the same as MD schools, in which case you'll have to accept that some people think your way is stupid and/or not valid.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. If you argue that DOs do have a different philosophy of treatment, then that's fine but then I think you would have to acknowledge that allopathic residency directors and allopathic oriented medical practices and groups that put a high value on research, benchwork, and academic aptitude will probably consider DOs different than MDs. Maybe not worse maybe not better, but maybe not the best "fit".

But if they are the same as many people do claim, then why do they exist? Why not just have all MD schools. Maybe there is a different philosophy, and even a different focus, more on community medicine than academic center-based medicine where you see everything under God's green Earth.

I don't think MD or DO graduates should substantiate those differences when they feel they matter, but deny them when they don't want them to exist. LET is right. It's one or the other.
 
This has turned into another DO vs. Caribbean debate.

So I am going to go to SGU rather than applying DO. This cycle I did apply to a few DO schools but I felt like I just didn't know enough about the history or the profession. Also I would just be cheating someone who actually really wants to be a DO. The only reason I applied was to use as a back up, so in the end I didn't do any secondaries.

I have always wanted to be a MD and isn't just going to SGU for the 2 letters. I think the change will be good for me. I want to be at a place that I know I could do my best. I like the diversity at SGU, I like how it's FAR away (no distractions), I like that there is nothing to do (once again less distractions), I like the long breaks we get, I think the nice weather and scenic tropical setting will ease my nerves...

I think everyone has their different reasons. No one should look at anyone going to SGU or DO and say anything because you don't' know what they have been through. I would re-apply if I could but honestly I'm ready to move on! I'm 25 and at a point in my life I need drastic change from doing this pre-med thing.

Anyways thought I would give some input as I think I am the only person here that can relate to the OP's original post.
 
This has turned into another DO vs. Caribbean debate.

So I am going to go to SGU rather than applying DO. This cycle I did apply to a few DO schools but I felt like I just didn't know enough about the history or the profession. Also I would just be cheating someone who actually really wants to be a DO. The only reason I applied was to use as a back up, so in the end I didn't do any secondaries.

I have always wanted to be a MD and isn't just going to SGU for the 2 letters. I think the change will be good for me. I want to be at a place that I know I could do my best. I like the diversity at SGU, I like how it's FAR away (no distractions), I like that there is nothing to do (once again less distractions), I like the long breaks we get, I think the nice weather and scenic tropical setting will ease my nerves...

I think everyone has their different reasons. No one should look at anyone going to SGU or DO and say anything because you don't' know what they have been through. I would re-apply if I could but honestly I'm ready to move on! I'm 25 and at a point in my life I need drastic change from doing this pre-med thing.

Anyways thought I would give some input as I think I am the only person here that can relate to the OP's original post.

Yes I would myself go to SGU over Do...

But I would again choose US MD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UK/Australia Med Schools > SGU > DO > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the other carrib schools
 
Just to mention the stat thing that some are claiming, DO stats are going up. Many schools now have a 3.6 GPA and 27-28 MCAT average. It's not your traditional 22, 3.3 will get you in.


DO schools are much easier to get into than US MD schools....

but at the same time I feel like, while they accept applications from all majors, my personal belief (I dont have anything to back this up) is that they prefer science majors.... they encourage taking higher level science courses I think....

while allopathic schools really dont care what the major is.... in fact, some prefer non-science majors
 
This has turned into another DO vs. Caribbean debate.

So I am going to go to SGU rather than applying DO. This cycle I did apply to a few DO schools but I felt like I just didn't know enough about the history or the profession. Also I would just be cheating someone who actually really wants to be a DO. The only reason I applied was to use as a back up, so in the end I didn't do any secondaries.

I have always wanted to be a MD and isn't just going to SGU for the 2 letters. I think the change will be good for me. I want to be at a place that I know I could do my best. I like the diversity at SGU, I like how it's FAR away (no distractions), I like that there is nothing to do (once again less distractions), I like the long breaks we get, I think the nice weather and scenic tropical setting will ease my nerves...

Let me know if it's a distraction or not when you're in a third world country with no hot water, intermittent electricity, big MFing mosquitos and hamburgers that cost 15 bucks.
 
Yes I would myself go to SGU over Do...

But I would again choose US MD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UK/Australia Med Schools > SGU > DO > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the other carrib schools

You've been proven wrong time and time again by residents and people who have gone through the residency selection process. You will have a more difficult time getting a US residency coming from a UK/Austrailia med school. I showed you links to webpages of residencies that REQUIRE significant US clinical experience that you don't get from UK/Austrailia medical schools.
 
my personal belief (I dont have anything to back this up) is that they <DO schools> prefer science majors.... they encourage taking higher level science courses I think....

while allopathic schools really dont care what the major is.... in fact, some prefer non-science majors

Wow. Just wow. Congrats on making the stupidest comment of the new year.

Based on your last two posts, me thinks you shouldn't give out any more advice.

I want to be at a place that I know I could do my best. I like how it's FAR away (no distractions), I like that there is nothing to do (once again less distractions),

I love when people make ill informed life changing decisions :laugh:. Try telling any SGU graduate there are no distractions and nothing to do on the island lol.
 
DO has severe limitations!!!! PM me if you wanna fight. 😉
 
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