Why do students volunteer to interview, give tours, or host?

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sudongpo

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Hello students

While following the interview trail I can't help but question the motivation of med students that get involved in the admissions process.

My feeling is that student interviewers do it for the power. I bet that admin sells it as a way of ensuring your school will remain "the best" by attracting the top candidates, or as a way of improving your interviewer skills. But interviewees lie and spin, and rankings are the most important factor for the top candidates anyways.

Do people participate in these things so there's more stuff in the Dean's letter?

Why do current students try to sell the school to you? Why not just be real?

Not competitive? I don't believe it
"We compete with ourselves...." Not possible.
The worst thing about this school is the parking? That's BS.

Please keep it real.
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^First of all some of those "wrong" answers I think are actually true (at least from a perspective of a first year) at my school so dont think people are always lieing.

Also many students have a little thing called school pride, why shouldnt they try to sell you on the school? Medical school is difficult, but that doesnt mean they dont enjoy it or appriciate the school. Keeping a positive spin to interviewers is just something you do naturally, because a lot of the stuff you complain about is really tedious (like a test grade being late,) or not the schools fault (why in the world do I need to know the Krebs Cycle again, answer-boards.) Dont be so cynical as a pre med, youll have plenty of time to develop that steak in med school.

As for choosing to work with admissions, people have one of two general feelings of why: graditude, these are the same people that choose you, why not help them as a thank you (and perhaps get free food, the ultimate goal of any med student) or two: I know too many people who would have been a better fit here then some of my current classmates why dont I try to change that "from the inside."
 
OP...please don't be a
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a. It's fun.
2. Some of us *gasp* actually think our school is worth a dam.
d. Some of us remember how stressful the interview trail was and remember appreciated medical students that were nice to us and answered our questions candidly.
 
To the OP:
There are definitely schools that are not competitive, or at least not as competitive as others. You can choose to believe what you want, but I will say with all candor that my school is absoutely not competitive. Period.

As for selling the school in general, I think there are two things that play into it. One is that we genuinely think that our schools are pretty darn good, so we want to share that with applicants. The second is that you feel like you're a representative of the school and you don't want to badmouth the school you're representing. It's actually quite hard to make yourself say bad things about a place when you're supposed to be representing it (at least I think it is).

And yes, some students do it for the power. My assumption from your post is that you're currently applying. If so, I'd get used to it. You will have professors, interns, residents, and attendings who all do things for the power throughout your training. And frankly, the students who are interviewing are a lot nice about it than many of the MDs.
 
It's kind of like when the Gunny says "hey Lance Corporal X, I need a volunteer for XXXX" he's not really asking you for something, he's telling you to do it. Of course, sometimes it's fun too.
 
We'll "keep it real" when asked about the worst part of our school the day you "keep it real" with the following...

a) don't tell me your weakness is perfectionism. That's BS. Tell me you don't value friendship, you envy those with more than you, or you didn't attend your grandmother's funeral because you had tickets to see PCD

b) don't tell me you love everything about my school, and you would love to be here. Tell me you really dislike the town, aren't impressed with my school, the students and the board scores, but quite frankly would love to be accepted to ANY med school

c) When you send me the thank you note, don't fill it with the normal niceties. Tell me you didn't like the way I dressed, tell me you didn't agree with what our dean of admissions said, and tell me you think my questions stink!

d) When you introduce yourself, tell me you think you are actually a marginal candidate, and hope I don't judge you based on MCAT and/or GPA.

THEN I will tell you that my administration secretly hates students, my profs don't care if you get the concept, and quite frankly our school doesn't need you.
 
Bertelman said:
We'll "keep it real" when asked about the worst part of our school the day you "keep it real" with the following...

a) don't tell me your weakness is perfectionism. That's BS. Tell me you don't value friendship, you envy those with more than you, or you didn't attend your grandmother's funeral because you had tickets to see PCD

b) don't tell me you love everything about my school, and you would love to be here. Tell me you really dislike the town, aren't impressed with my school, the students and the board scores, but quite frankly would love to be accepted to ANY med school

c) When you send me the thank you note, don't fill it with the normal niceties. Tell me you didn't like the way I dressed, tell me you didn't agree with what our dean of admissions said, and tell me you think my questions stink!

d) When you introduce yourself, tell me you think you are actually a marginal candidate, and hope I don't judge you based on MCAT and/or GPA.

THEN I will tell you that my administration secretly hates students, my profs don't care if you get the concept, and quite frankly our school doesn't need you.
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Good stuff. That's the interview game, and it stinks. I'm a 3rd time app. First 2 times went with the honest, speak from the heart spiel. Didn't prep for interviews. As a result, very interesting profound interviews, but no acceptance.
1.Why medicine? Because I want a good life. I feel it's fair to enjoy a high income and some respect for the positive things I do for others. Plus it's interesting work based on science. Continual learning, maximize own abilities....
2. Why switching careers? Because teaching is noble, but being a teacher sucks.
3. Any lingering doubts about your commiittment to medicine? It's natural to have some doubt about anything you've never done before.

This time, mock interviewed, SDN'ed, and came up with good spin....the result: Bland perfunctory interviews and acceptance. It's just funny how life works.

Anyways I was just curious. Thanks for the replies. It's good to see the genuine pride in own schools.
 
I think you are dead on about the student interviewers.

Here, the tourguides and people that answer questions do it 1. because they keep emailing us trying to get us to do it and 2. for the free Jimmy Johns.

Like any school, our school isnt perfect, but most of the faults I have with it are small or are things that are argueably positives. Things I probably wouldnt think about talking about if not asked specifially about them.
 
sudongpo said:
Good stuff. That's the interview game, and it stinks. I'm a 3rd time app. First 2 times went with the honest, speak from the heart spiel. Didn't prep for interviews. As a result, very interesting profound interviews, but no acceptance.
1.Why medicine? Because I want a good life. I feel it's fair to enjoy a high income and some respect for the positive things I do for others. Plus it's interesting work based on science. Continual learning, maximize own abilities....
2. Why switching careers? Because teaching is noble, but being a teacher sucks.
3. Any lingering doubts about your commiittment to medicine? It's natural to have some doubt about anything you've never done before.

This time, mock interviewed, SDN'ed, and came up with good spin....the result: Bland perfunctory interviews and acceptance. It's just funny how life works.

Anyways I was just curious. Thanks for the replies. It's good to see the genuine pride in own schools.
Click to expand...


I was in a similar boat. A few apps, a couple interviews, no luck. By the last time, I had given up, started to think about doing something else, didn't give a flip about the process or about acting the part. Obviously, I got in.

To be sincere, I do it because I have pride in my school, and I believe I can actively participate in its future by helping to select the next gen. It's important for school respect and will hopefully only stand to increase my school's rep in the years to come.

From your perspective, though, I think it should only be seen as a positive to get to interact with current students. I've heard a few places that don't let the students emerge to interact with interviewees. Also, surprisingly, we're not much different than you. We can't hold up a lie for too long. If you see 10 students in a day, and none of them have anything appalling to say, it's likely they are all genuinely happy. That should tell you something.
 
I sell my school because
1) I'm a student here, so
2) It must be the best school in the US.

Also, I'm at least as real about my school's weaknesses as you are about your own in interview.
 
Geeze, I'm honest with people about what I like (convenience of dorms, faculty that actually seem to give a damn about us, my classmates, congenial atmosphere) and don't like (my dorm room is too hot in winter, gym is small, stay in doors too much as a result of living in a building connected to the anatomy lab, class rooms, study spaces, private hospital, cafeteria, etc).
 
sudongpo said:
Good stuff. That's the interview game, and it stinks. I'm a 3rd time app. First 2 times went with the honest, speak from the heart spiel. Didn't prep for interviews. As a result, very interesting profound interviews, but no acceptance.
1.Why medicine? Because I want a good life. I feel it's fair to enjoy a high income and some respect for the positive things I do for others. Plus it's interesting work based on science. Continual learning, maximize own abilities....
2. Why switching careers? Because teaching is noble, but being a teacher sucks.
3. Any lingering doubts about your commiittment to medicine? It's natural to have some doubt about anything you've never done before.

This time, mock interviewed, SDN'ed, and came up with good spin....the result: Bland perfunctory interviews and acceptance. It's just funny how life works.

Anyways I was just curious. Thanks for the replies. It's good to see the genuine pride in own schools.
Click to expand...
My own experience on the interview trail was remarkably similar and just as infuriating.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
free food.
 
I did it because I remember how clueless I felt while interviewing, and I think it's pointless to let others feel the same when I can help. It's the same feeling you get every time you start a new course or rotation without knowing jacksh*t about it, meaning you have to suffer blindly until you figure out up from down - which is normally just about the time you have to move on. I think it's sad and a little pathetic when people in the know watch those who follow them suffer either because they're apathetic or because they adopt the attitude of "well I did it without help, so you can too".
 
I do it because I love my school. And talking to applicants is fun. It takes me back to this time last year :)
 
I do it because when I interview students, my impressions actually go to the Adcom. Now, the faculty impression carries the real weight, and the student interview seems to matter only if it's strongly positive or strongly negative. I see this as a chance to make sure that when I'm a 4th year doing electives, I don't have to deal with third years who somehow got in despite having zero social or team skills
 
I do it because it's fun and something different. Plus I'm honestly a bit of an attention wh--e.
 
Law2Doc said:
Agree. I don't know what the rest of you are talking about. If you help out the admissions office there is invariably some sort of free lunch in it for you. And like cigarettes in prison, free food is the currency of choice in med school.:)
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Grad school, too. Everything tastes better when it's free. ;)
 
I am one of those people and I do it because I actually LOVE my school (I am convinced it is a match made in heaven). I was one of those skeptical applicants, but I have to say everything has been exactly as they said.

Having mentored a lot of undergrads, I also get to be sort of a big brother (or friendly figure) to applicants on some of their most stressful days.

and...the lunch is money!
 
I do it because 1) I genuinely appreciated getting to talk to medical students and their taking time out of their day when I was interviewing; 2) some of my tours, quite honestly, sucked and I hope to give people a better impression of my school than I got on some of my interview days; 3) I actually ENJOY talking about my school and experiences and encouraging future students.

Honestly, one of the worst things about my school IS the parking. The other things that irritate me most likely exist at any med school and I don't think they are worth mentioning as things that are the worst things about MY school.

As for the student interviewers - I applied to be one at my school and I know many of the other students who applied well. While I'm sure some did apply with the goal of padding their residency applications or for the power trip, I don't think that was the motivation for most of them. I applied because I thought it would be something that I would enjoy and a nice break from studying.
 
sudongpo said:
The worst thing about this school is the parking? That's BS.
Click to expand...
I did get to pick my school, you know - it wasn't a random assignment. I'm here because I wanted to be here, and I WOULD be complaining about some stuff if I were elsewhere.
 
I like our admissions office and so when they asked, I said yes. I wasn't sure what to expect but I liked it alot. It made me remember being at the same lunch table or tour or whatever, and I stayed friendly to those students I met on my tour.

I am not very cookie cutter and so when I met students, I tended to gravitate towards other non-cookie cutter applicants. I really appreciated meeting them and hearing their experiences, fears, desires, etc. The mainstream types, who were polished and well, teflon-like I guess - I didn't have much in common with them. That's ok.

One tour had an applicant who was, surprisingly, really rude to me and so - as requested, I relayed that information back to the office. So, I guess I like feeling like I have a part in how our school progesses year by year.
 
I was hesitant to attend my school cause I thought the tour guides were kinda lame. But then I got here and its pretty cool. So I thought I'd try to represent for the normal kids that attend my school and to try to clear up the bad rep NYMC gets because its actually a cool school
 
I host students because I think that the admission process is already very costly. Three years ago, I couldn't afford to apply to more than 3 schools. Despites AMCAS giving a free ride to the poorest of the poor, the system is still made to favor people with money, people who can apply to 30+ schools. If I can save an applicant 80-100$ in a hotel room and 30$ for a car, that's my big power trip woo-hoo!!!!
 
FenderHM said:
I was hesitant to attend my school cause I thought the tour guides were kinda lame. But then I got here and its pretty cool. So I thought I'd try to represent for the normal kids that attend my school and to try to clear up the bad rep NYMC gets because its actually a cool school
Click to expand...

It's cyclical though -- the current applicants probably think you are kinda lame, I suspect (regardless of whether you actually are or not). It always looks different from the other side of the window.:)
 
Quix said:
Grad school, too. Everything tastes better when it's free. ;)
Click to expand...
Agreed. Last night I actually ate veggie pizza as in Orthonut willingly ingested more than one slice of pizza liberally coated with green peppers, onions, carrots, and *gasp* fungus

And if you knew anything about Orthonut, you would know that Orthonut is what her friends call a "meat-a-tarian"

But hey, free food is yummy. And free.
 
Law2Doc said:
It's cyclical though -- the current applicants probably think you are kinda lame, I suspect (regardless of whether you actually are or not). It always looks different from the other side of the window.:)
Click to expand...

I assure you they think I'm cool
 
I will probably volunteer to give tours for the following reasons:

a) to get a silent laugh out of the interviews and be thankful its not me
b) to give an accurate representation of the school (I like my school even though there is a ton of BS and would like to tell prospective students why).
c) to get a free lunch
 
surebreC said:
I will probably volunteer to give tours for the following reasons:

a) to get a silent laugh out of the interviews and be thankful its not me
b) to give an accurate representation of the school (I like my school even though there is a ton of BS and would like to tell prospective students why).
c) to get a free lunch
Click to expand...

I got involved in admissions work as a medical student because of B and C above. The free lunch was pretty nice. My duties did not interfere with my coursework and the lunch was pretty nice.

I also had loads of interaction with the classes behind me for three of my four years. It was pretty nice when I ran for student government office. I actually enjoyed meeting the folks who came to interview and some of the folks that I interviewed, I ended up meeting when I matched in residency as my residency was in the general area of my medical school.

When I became a resident, I was a shoo-in for serving on the admissions committees both at my medical school and at the medical school of my residency. Now, I have loads of experience on both sides. It is great fun and I have met thousands of people. :thumbup:
 
Hell, I do it to get out of rounds. Nothing lets you out of mental masturbation more than saying "the academic affairs office has scheduled me to give a tour."
Besides, the free food is also worth it.

Plus I get a power trip asking people what they want to see and then telling them that we don't go there on the tour. Seriously, why do people always want to see the newborn nursery?
 
Our school doesn't send out emails begging people to give tours or speak to interviewees....if we did, we would have the entire first and second year classes going to speak to the interviewees. People at my school genuinely love the school. There are negatives to the school that I will openly admit one-on-one..not in front of other students though becuase they will just argue that it's "not a negative" and confuse the hell out of you.

Not to mention it really brightens my day when I go and talk to interviewees. You can get bogged down in the basic sciences, and during my "anatomy study time," I went down to talk to the interviewees and when I went back to studying, I was so much happier becuase I remember how happy I was when I was in their seat and why I'm really in medical school...because it's easy to forget. :)

Also, I can honestly say that my school isn't "competitive" for the most part. There are definitely a few in my class that are competitive, but they aren't trying to "destroy" others...but I go to school in Miami and I can honestly say that about 25% of my class is at South Beach at least 3 nights a week, every week....not studying.
 
i liked giving tours because you could answer questions the way you wanted to without worrying someone's going to hear you give the non-textbook answer.

the most valuable stuff i learned from some schools was through informal chats with random students / tour guides, not the patented crap from the admissions office or interview team.
 
At our school you can just show up for the admissions lunch and talk to the interviewees. It's always a good lunch, and I like it a lot more than doing interviews.

I used to do interviews, but I actually hated it because I felt kind of bad for the applicant. No matter how I tried to set them at ease, they are still sitting there like a petrified rabbit. I also don't feel that you can justifiably make such an important decision based on a half an hour interview, so I was never sure of my decision.
 
I would make a terrible, terrible tour guide, as I would actually tell the truth about my institution, the good and the bad. Actually, I volunteered for a second look weekend one time, and the prospective students said that I was the only one who said anything worthwhile. And I didn't even badmouth my school (which I have no hangups about doing), I just told these lads about the local party scene which is all they really wanted to hear about.

Most tour guides present a false happy go lucky image of their schools, and talk all kinds of trivia that no one gives a **** about, and use meaningless lines like "Did you know we use technology here?" What a bunch of tools. :sleep:
 
Yadda yadda, everybody loves their school, nobody goes to a competitive school, etc. Because obviously if we can't brag about our school to the prospective we've made a huge mistake in going there.

I do interviews for the free lunch and the chance to tell interviewees the things I learned last year when I was them. Like that all schools exaggerate to make themselves look better (through a miracle of statistics, every school scores above the average on Step I) and there isn't half as much difference between schools as they (and their students) would like you to think.
 
dilated said:
Yadda yadda, everybody loves their school, nobody goes to a competitive school, etc. Because obviously if we can't brag about our school to the prospective we've made a huge mistake in going there.
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Hmm...Not ENTIRELY true. though probably almost true.

Last year I will confess that as an MS1, an interviewee asked me for directions to some doc's office. I gave them to her, but with this caveat: "I promise that if you come here, a year from now, you'll want to kill yourself."

i wouldn't do it again, but I'm just saying, it happens.

When a misguided interviewee rolled into our PBL group's room this year, they all told the interviewees that medical school sucks and to go to law school.

So negative feedback happens. Maybe it shouldn't or maybe it should at least be kept to a minimum, but it does happen.
 
When I was interviewing last year I ran into a group of students outside an antomy lab (this was not at my current school). They told the whole group of interviewees to not come to medical school, to get out while we still can. Later one of them tracked us down again to make sure we all knew they were "just kidding." Ah the joys of anatomy lab . . .
 
getunconcsious said:
Hmm...Not ENTIRELY true. though probably almost true.

Last year I will confess that as an MS1, an interviewee asked me for directions to some doc's office. I gave them to her, but with this caveat: "I promise that if you come here, a year from now, you'll want to kill yourself."

i wouldn't do it again, but I'm just saying, it happens.

When a misguided interviewee rolled into our PBL group's room this year, they all told the interviewees that medical school sucks and to go to law school.

So negative feedback happens. Maybe it shouldn't or maybe it should at least be kept to a minimum, but it does happen.
Click to expand...

haha--in a strange way, I think going to a school where a fair number of students complain might have been better for me. I know I will find things to hate wherever I go, so I might as well go to a place where I'll at least have that in common with most of my classmates.

I went through agony choosing between schools last April, and went with my gut--I thought I really chose the school I'd be happiest at. Turns out I chose the school with the most traditional curriculum possible, and my class is the most intense it's ever been. I should've just gone for the best school I got into. So, my advice is, don't go with your gut, cuz it's often dead wrong.
 
sudongpo said:
While following the interview trail I can't help but question the motivation of med students that get involved in the admissions process.

My feeling is that student interviewers do it for the power. I bet that admin sells it as a way of ensuring your school will remain "the best" by attracting the top candidates, or as a way of improving your interviewer skills. But interviewees lie and spin, and rankings are the most important factor for the top candidates anyways.

Do people participate in these things so there's more stuff in the Dean's letter?

Why do current students try to sell the school to you? Why not just be real?

Not competitive? I don't believe it
"We compete with ourselves...." Not possible.
The worst thing about this school is the parking? That's BS.

Please keep it real.
Click to expand...
clap clap clap you are awesome. Really. Agreement on all counts. Ah...I love the cynics

I always got the feelings the student interviewers and adcom members were power hungry. Not just the students but the grownups. I guess it feels good being gatekeepers, gives them some meaning in their seemingly otherwise mundane lives.

sudongpo ppl are never real, and when you find those who are don't let them go!
 
I would say that most people volunteer to be tour guides because they genuinely love their school and remember what it was like to go on visits and interviews where the tour guides were less than enthusiastic. Some people are easily influenced, and so if the tour guide does a wonderful job selling their school and give off the impression (whether real or imagined) that the students love their school, then they may be more apt to attend that particular medical school.
 
I'm generally a congenial guy who gets along well with others and does not mind offering my advice and guidance for what it is worth, but I'm also truthful.

I hosted applicants for the money and I give them tours for the free lunch.
 
AmoryBlaine said:
a. It's fun.
2. Some of us *gasp* actually think our school is worth a dam.
d. Some of us remember how stressful the interview trail was and remember appreciated medical students that were nice to us and answered our questions candidly.
Click to expand...
Agree. It hasn't been so long since I was an applicant that I have forgotten how stressful this whole process is. Talking to students for an hour at lunchtime requires very little effort on my part, and as others have already pointed out, the free lunches are always nice. ;) I host students because so many students were kind enough to host me last year when I was applying. It's one of those passing on the karma things. :)
 
I host students and give the tours---primarily because hotels are expensive and I want applicants to get a student's view of the school. Ask Q, she'll tell you I'm the best at selling our program. In return, I do not get free food, do not get a say in the admissions process, and while the touring will be mentioned in my dean's letter, the overall result is meaningless since I'm applying through the military match. I don't know what the tour guides are like at your school and why you have such a vendetta against them, but most of our ambassadors feel the same way that I do.
 
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