Why do you, honestly, want to be a DO?

[Seth Joo]

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I knew the distinction between the two, I was just having a hard time figuring out what your overall point was. That makes it clear though.

So you are telling me that there are a considerable number of DO medical students that apply to Harvard ACGME or something who realistically think they are going to get in there?

Not necessarily Harvard, but many apply to a lot of big ACGME programs and never get the time of day from these places, there are some mid tier programs that show DOs love assuming they got good board scores and LORs but places like Harvard, Duke, Yale, Hopkins, are kind of out of reach for only a handful of DOs.

Chances are much better at AOA specialty training programs.

 

[Gandyy]

Not necessarily Harvard, but many apply to a lot of big ACGME programs and never get the time of day from these places, there are some mid tier programs that show DOs love assuming they got good board scores and LORs but places like Harvard, Duke, Yale, Hopkins, are kind of out of reach for only a handful of DOs.

Chances are much better at AOA specialty training programs.

So then if DO's have a good chance of specializing in what they want, whats the big deal about on SDN?

Are people literally so hellbent on their titles?

Knowing all that the only legitimate concern one would have then about the DO path is the clinical education.

 

[Seth Joo]

So then if DO's have a good chance of specializing in what they want, whats the big deal about on SDN?

Are people literally so hellbent on their titles?

Knowing all that the only legitimate concern one would have then about the DO path is the clinical education.

Its all in people's heads, perception, Kias vs Mercedes, an iPhone vs a Generic Android, a pair of Levis vs one of those 200 dollar Jeans etc, at the end of the day they do their job.

Batman gets to be Batman, Superman gets to be Superman, Spiderman gets to be Spiderman, Wolverine gets to be Wolverine.

I myself am aiming for an AOA residency specialty program, its going to get me from point A to point B, that is what I want.

Your point number 1 is the most important 1, DOs and MDs are both physicians, they do the same job.

Mercedes are overrated cars anyway, my ex wifes E Class Transmission broke and is going to cost her 6000 dollars to repair LOL. I drove a KIA Soul after my Prius was in an accident a few months ago, the car was pretty solid, handled really well, the fuel economy is not like Prius, but then again its not a Hybrid.

 

[BornSinner]

Its all in people's heads, perception, Kias vs Mercedes, an iPhone vs a Generic Android, a pair of Levis vs one of those 200 dollar Jeans etc, at the end of the day they do their job.

Batman gets to be Batman, Superman gets to be Superman, Spiderman gets to be Spiderman, Wolverine gets to be Wolverine.

I myself am aiming for an AOA residency specialty program, its going to get me from point A to point B, that is what I want.

Your point number 1 is the most important 1, DOs and MDs are both physicians, they do the same job.

I really don't get the big deal... I mean after a few years won't AOA and ACGME residencies both be the same credential wise anyway? I can see how there is a stigma now, but yeah... in the next few years not so much...

 

[Seth Joo]

I really don't get the big deal... I mean after a few years won't AOA and ACGME residencies both be the same credential wise anyway? I can see how there is a stigma now, but yeah... in the next few years not so much...

In a few years yeah. Right now things are still in flux. That is the reason why I am going for the AOA residency because by the time I am done no one is going to care anymore.

 

[SCooFS]

Disclaimer : I am not bashing DO's in anyway and would be honored to be one.

That being said I have always felt that DOs grasp OMM so tightly because it actually gives them a difference in medicine besides just saying 'I'm a DO because I didn't get into an MD program.' people can use it to define a difference that makes it sound as though it is on the same plane. I would love to be a DO though I prefer MD because it will provide me with more opportunities, I believe. However if I don't get into MD I will not be ashamed to say well 'a DO is like an MD but it's a little easier to become A DO.' People need to just accept that fact. If they like OMM them great but I think many just use it as a way of deflecting the fact that most people think of osteopathic medicine as second to allopathic

 

[BornSinner]

Disclaimer : I am not bashing DO's in anyway and would be honored to be one.

That being said I have always felt that DOs grasp OMM so tightly because it actually gives them a difference in medicine besides just saying 'I'm a DO because I didn't get into an MD program.' people can use it to define a difference that makes it sound as though it is on the same plane. I would love to be a DO though I prefer MD because it will provide me with more opportunities, I believe. However if I don't get into MD I will not be ashamed to say well 'a DO is like an MD but it's a little easier to become A DO.' People need to just accept that fact. If they like OMM them great but I think many just use it as a way of deflecting the fact that most people think of osteopathic medicine as second to allopathic

I honestly don't understand that viewpoint b/c I as an individual can easily admit to myself that I stumbled in college a bit resulting in my grades being lower resulting in me potentially becoming a DO in lieu of becoming an MD. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. People phuck up. That's how life is. The real question is can they overcome them. I've seen fantastic DO physicians while also seeing chitty MD ones. It is very dependent on the individual and the time in their life that they realize they gotta get their chit together. Just my 2 cents.

 

[BornSinner]

In a few years yeah. Right now things are still in flux. That is the reason why I am going for the AOA residency because by the time I am done no one is going to care anymore.

So people matriculating in 2016 shouldn't really worry about this conversation you guys were having right?

 

[Promethean]

Its all in people's heads, perception, Kias vs Mercedes, an iPhone vs a Generic Android, a pair of Levis vs one of those 200 dollar Jeans etc, at the end of the day they do their job.

It's all in peoples heads... but it isn't in ALL people's heads. That is the point that I keep trying to make. Not everyone agrees. Some patients prefer DOs. Some DOs chose to be DOs. Some DOs really do want primary care. That doesn't mean that all DOs desperately wanted to do OMM on rural villagers who hate MDs.

Some isn't all. One person's experience doesn't map to everyone else. I find value in OMM. That doesn't mean that everyone else has to. Some people think it is a waste of their time to learn. That doesn't mean that all students are upset about "having" to learn it.

 

[mathnerd88]

Disclaimer : I am not bashing DO's in anyway and would be honored to be one.

That being said I have always felt that DOs grasp OMM so tightly because it actually gives them a difference in medicine besides just saying 'I'm a DO because I didn't get into an MD program.' people can use it to define a difference that makes it sound as though it is on the same plane. I would love to be a DO though I prefer MD because it will provide me with more opportunities, I believe. However if I don't get into MD I will not be ashamed to say well 'a DO is like an MD but it's a little easier to become A DO.' People need to just accept that fact. If they like OMM them great but I think many just use it as a way of deflecting the fact that most people think of osteopathic medicine as second to allopathic

This is not a valid viewpoint. It is NOT easier to become a DO. You take the same amount of classes as an MD plus an OMM class. MD's do not take that class. If anything, it is harder to become a DO. It is EASIER to gain acceptance into a DO school than a MD school. In the end, you're taking more classes as a DO, so I believe it is HARDER to become a DO.

In fact, the MD philosophy is starting to mimic more like the DO philosophy, especially in primary care.

 

[Gandyy]

I honestly don't understand that viewpoint b/c I as an individual can easily admit to myself that I stumbled in college a bit resulting in my grades being lower resulting in me potentially becoming a DO in lieu of becoming an MD. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. People phuck up. That's how life is. The real question is can they overcome them. I've seen fantastic DO physicians while also seeing chitty MD ones. It is very dependent on the individual and the time in their life that they realize they gotta get their chit together. Just my 2 cents.

Actually the people who are borderline MD applicants with sub 30 MCAT scores and great GPAs get screwed over in this admissions process the worst. They didnt "phuck" up eitehr. They just happened to score a few percentile lower than the MD 31 average and are now paying for it even though they worked their asses off in undergrad and/or life.

Borderline MD applicants get into DO schools and are treated the same as someone who barely got into the same DO school with a 24/3.4 gpa.

Its all bull****. You shouldnt keep this mentality that everyone who got into DO schools "phucked up".

Whats more, my first interview of the cycle was a panel interview of the nerve-wracking kind. Just my luck


/rant

Disclaimer: Totally would be happy going to an upper tier DO school.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

This is not a valid viewpoint. It is NOT easier to become a DO. You take the same amount of classes as an MD plus an OMM class. MD's do not take that class. If anything, it is harder to become a DO. It is EASIER to gain acceptance into a DO school than a MD school. In the end, you're taking more classes as a DO, so I believe it is HARDER to become a DO.

In fact, the MD philosophy is starting to mimic more like the DO philosophy, especially in primary care.

They were obviously referring to the relative ease of admissions. Quit looking for excuses to get offended.

 

[Gandyy]

They were obviously referring to the relative ease of admissions. Quit looking for excuses to get offended.

True they were. But then getting into CCOM or AZCOM isnt much easier than getting into a low tier MD school though. My point is it depends on which DO schools we are talking about.

There is a giant difference in getting into CCOM vs getting into KYCOM or LMU or BCOM or any other low tier/new DO school.

BCOM was giving out Interview Invites before official MCAT scores were posted in applications.

 

[Seth Joo]

It's all in peoples heads... but it isn't in ALL people's heads. That is the point that I keep trying to make. Not everyone agrees. Some patients prefer DOs. Some DOs chose to be DOs. Some DOs really do want primary care. That doesn't mean that all DOs desperately wanted to do OMM on rural villagers who hate MDs.

Some isn't all. One person's experience doesn't map to everyone else. I find value in OMM. That doesn't mean that everyone else has to. Some people think it is a waste of their time to learn. That doesn't mean that all students are upset about "having" to learn it.

Pretty much the difference between driving a Kia and a Mercedes Benz is all in people's heads.

 

[Gandyy]

Pretty much the difference between driving a Kia and a Mercedes Benz is all in people's heads.

You love your car analogies dont you? 🤣

 

[Seth Joo]

You love your car analogies dont you? 🤣

There is another analogy I love but then I would be accused of misogyny.

 

[Gandyy]

There is another analogy I love but then I would be accused of misogyny.

lol

 

[mathnerd88]

They were obviously referring to the relative ease of admissions. Quit looking for excuses to get offended.

I'm not offended. But thanks for your input.

 

[SCooFS]

This is not a valid viewpoint. It is NOT easier to become a DO. You take the same amount of classes as an MD plus an OMM class. MD's do not take that class. If anything, it is harder to become a DO. It is EASIER to gain acceptance into a DO school than a MD school. In the end, you're taking more classes as a DO, so I believe it is HARDER to become a DO.

In fact, the MD philosophy is starting to mimic more like the DO philosophy, especially in primary care.

Ok you're saying DO school is harder than MD school. I can't argue with that since I don't know. I know it is harder to get into MD school, though, and that is what I'm talking about.

 

[SCooFS]

They were obviously referring to the relative ease of admissions. Quit looking for excuses to get offended.

Ha ha, I responded to this person before I saw what you said. Even with my disclaimer and stating that I would be honored to be a DO they are still offended.

 

[Gandyy]

Ha ha, I responded to this person before I saw what you said. Even with my disclaimer and stating that I would be honored to be a DO they are still offended.

Thats because the only reason your comment didnt come off as totally offensive was because you said "no offense." Try posting your borderline offensive comment without saying "no offense" and see how that sounds. Hes not really offended I dont think.

When you say "most people think of DO as second to MD", thats not true. Most people in healthcare settings are patients who dont know the difference and dont care. They want a doctor who will take care of them properly and without being an ass.

 

[StudyLater]

Patients usually don't even know the letters next to your name at all (unless it's PP and your name and title are written on the door or something). They just call you doctor.

 

[Goro]

I have to crow, SS, mine can!!

I've yet to meet a medical student - MD or DO - who can do anything more than a rudimentary abdominal exam and even reliably identify basic pathology such as an acute abdomen.

You don't learn to proficiency/expertise in medical school, DO or otherwise. And if you don't build on and use those skills in training and practice, any special bone magic they've learned will quickly erode.

 

[StudyLater]

I have to crow, SS, mine can!!

Yeah @SouthernSurgeon so if you're ever working with med students from the ominous "West of St. Louis"COM then just know there might be some small chance that they are capable of basic diagnosis.

 

[Seth Joo]

Yeah @SouthernSurgeon so if you're ever working with med students from the ominous "West of St. Louis"COM then just know there might be some small chance that they are capable of basic diagnosis.

There are several DO schools "West of St. Louis" but I know which one is the best one 🙂.

I also know the runner up:

 

[StudyLater]

There are several DO schools "West of St. Louis" but I know which one is the best one 🙂.

I also know the runner up:

The girl's run represents her long and arduous journey through her medical education.

That or ATSU just thought filming a hot chick running would attract apps.

Seriously though props on making Mesa look like it's this amazingly beautiful place to live.

 

[SCooFS]

Thats because the only reason your comment didnt come off as totally offensive was because you said "no offense." Try posting your borderline offensive comment without saying "no offense" and see how that sounds. Hes not really offended I dont think.

When you say "most people think of DO as second to MD", thats not true. Most people in healthcare settings are patients who dont know the difference and dont care. They want a doctor who will take care of them properly and without being an ass.

Ok fair enough. Most people who know the difference think of DO as second to MD. Including yourself. Would I still love to be a DO? Absolutely. I'm also comfortable admitting this and would work like crazy to get into a great residency despite that fact.

 

[StudyLater]

Ok fair enough. Most people who know the difference think of DO as second to MD. Including yourself. Would I still love to be a DO? Absolutely. I'm also comfortable admitting this and would work like crazy to get into a great residency despite that fact.

But but but....you'll have to explain to people what a DO is.

You'll always have to tell them you're just as good.

Oh dear god, you'll have to move your mouth and make sentences!!!!

 

[Seth Joo]

The girl's run represents her long and arduous journey through her medical education.

That or ATSU just thought filming a hot chick running would attract apps.

Seriously though props on making Mesa look like it's this amazingly beautiful place to live.

I think they were accomplishing both things, Mesa is a pretty nice place, and both Arizona DO schools are in nice surroundings, much better than the California DO schools for sure.

 

[Gandyy]

Ok fair enough. Most people who know the difference think of DO as second to MD. Including yourself. Would I still love to be a DO? Absolutely. I'm also comfortable admitting this and would work like crazy to get into a great residency despite that fact.

No I dont think DO is "second" to MD. They both take the same classes. Hell, DO takes an extra class. You can argue that the clinical education of many DO schools is in general not as high quality as MD schools, but thats about it. Some Residency Program Directors do think DO is second to MD which why many applicants have to play by their rules and apply to both MD and DO like myself. Unless of course, your heart is 100 percent set on primary care and then it literally doesnt matter.

People who are obsessed with MD over DO for just the title shouldnt be going into medicine anyways.

 

[Gandyy]

I think they were accomplishing both things, Mesa is a pretty nice place, and both Arizona DO schools are in nice surroundings, much better than the California DO schools for sure.

Glendale is great.

 

[StudyLater]

Glendale is great.

Don't doubt that at all. Mesa though, it really depends.

 

[Seth Joo]

Don't doubt that at all. Mesa though, it really depends.

Mesa is pretty nice in comparison to the locations of the two California DO schools, have you seen those two cities? Those are like the sets of the movie "Straight Outta Compton". There are nicer areas around those schools but given student budgets its not easy for students to afford better neighborhoods unless they got rich parents, and then you have to waste time out of your day commuting back and forth to school. A school should build itself in a safe and good community where students would actually want to live and feel safe.

Mesa is like the Horse Whisperer.

Glendale is also a nice quiet community as well.

 

[StudyLater]

Mesa is pretty nice in comparison to the locations of the two California DO schools, have you seen those schools? Those are like the sets of the movie "Straight Outta Compton". Mesa is like the Horse Whisperer.

Depends on the part you're in!! Some areas are pretty nice, though.

Shame about the Cali schools. I always pictured them as sunny, blue skies, perfect weather, beautiful people, and near the water.

ARE YOU SAYING CALI IS NOT ALL LIKE THE SET OF BAYWATCH???? 😱😱😱😱

 

[Seth Joo]

Depends on the part you're in!! Some areas are pretty nice, though.

Shame about the Cali schools. I always pictured them as sunny, blue skies, perfect weather, beautiful people, and near the water.

ARE YOU SAYING CALI IS NOT ALL LIKE THE SET OF BAYWATCH???? 😱😱😱😱

There are nice parts of California, the DO Schools in the state are not in the nice places. Overall though I meet a lot of ex-Californians in Arizona all the time, and many agree the state saw its best days a long time ago, a lot of AZCOM students are from CA.

And to live in a nice part of California is out of reach for most students on a budget anyway. Its the same with most of the big cities in the East like Boston and New York, the rents are too high for most students.

Baywatch was made in the late 80s to early 90s, that's over 20 years ago, the place has changed a lot since then, its more like Straight Outta Compton these days, too many gangs, too much violence, and crime.

 

[NontradCA]

Baywatch was made in the late 80s to early 90s, that's over 20 years ago, the place has changed a lot since then, its more like Straight Outta Compton these days, too many gangs, too much violence, and crime.

 

[Seth Joo]

The places where the two CA DO schools are located are very Straight Outta Compton, straight up ghetto.

Some troubling events near the two:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/10/28/officer-wounded-in-san-gabriel-shooting/
http://ktla.com/2014/10/29/pomona-swat-officer-dies-after-being-shot-while-serving-search-warrant/
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Two-dead-one-hurt-in-Vallejo-murder-suicide-6402903.php

I much prefer the image of the pretty girl running in Mesa. Sure there are nice places in California but your average DO student cannot afford to live there.

 

[macklemo]

The main reason I am going to a DO school is because I want to practice medicine, period! Yes I only got into DO and did not get into MD, however, I could have totally waited an extra year and gotten into an MD with my stats. DO prepares you for family practice and primary care. I personally have always wanted to do pediatrics so when the opportunity came, I decided to go to a DO school rather than wait an entire year for MD since it fit my preference. As for people that say MD have better board scores than DO, I think its complete nonsense. Yes, numbers do not lie, but the more time you put into studying for COMLEX and USMLE, the higher your score will be. DO does not mean its automatically primary care, but you would have to work your butt off to get an MD specialty. At the end of the day, doctors are doctors, regardless of the MD and DO.

 

[GypsyHummus]

because DOs are Jedi of the medical profession. The Holistic approach to the force.

 

[AlteredScale]

It seems this thread has run its course. Additionally, due to the numerous complaints about this thread, it will be closed.

Please..please refrain from insulting other users even if their opinion on specific topics differs. SDN is a forum to exchange ideas and opinions in a respectful and professional manner.