Why I like low cost of living areas

[doctalaughs]

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Both my older sisters (ages 49 and 50) in DC area. Both their homes 1.75 million and 1 million all paid off. both anesthesia.

No debt. Not earning anywhere close to 500k. More like 250k-275k these days and cutting back hours. They didn't make the big bucks either. 400-500k for a few years and starting cutting back. And they were making 120-200k for a few years in late 90s and early 2000s

Things will be a ok if u play ur cards right.

There are reasons people live in high cost areas.
Jobs
Good public Schools
Family

Agree, we can be thankful that even in the most expensive cities doctors command enough salary to be "ok"- unlike the average American if we play our cards right and don't spend extravagantly. Yes, even in a #1-5 city where the houses cost 1-2 million for a modest place, you can still pay it off and send your kids to college.

Thats a far cry though from being debt and mortgage free by 40, able to retire by 45 modestly or 50 with 5 mill or 60 with 10 mill (which is totally attainable if you are financially conservative).

I definitely think some people in the super- high cost places have good reasons to live there (#1 being family, which has no price). I just take exception to those that think there is no culture, no good public schools and no diversity when you move out of manhattan or san fran.


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[chocomorsel]

I live in BFE. I make plenty of money and I am home by 4:00 every day to feed the goats. Life is good.

Sounds lovely. You hiring? I so want some goats.

 

[anonperson]

Agree, we can be thankful that even in the most expensive cities doctors command enough salary to be "ok"- unlike the average American if we play our cards right and don't spend extravagantly. Yes, even in a #1-5 city where the houses cost 1-2 million for a modest place, you can still pay it off and send your kids to college.

Thats a far cry though from being debt and mortgage free by 40, able to retire by 45 modestly or 50 with 5 mill or 60 with 10 mill (which is totally attainable if you are financially conservative).

I definitely think some people in the super- high cost places have good reasons to live there (#1 being family, which has no price). I just take exception to those that think there is no culture, no good public schools and no diversity when you move out of manhattan or san fran.


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I don't think anyone is implying that SF or NYC are the only places with culture etc. Any of those cities listed earlier are fine.

What was posted by the OP was that moving to BFE is a great financial move. When someone says BFE, I think of places in Central/Southern PA, rural AL, SE Ohio, parts of West Virginia just to name a few regions. Living in Portland is not BFE.

These places will pay a premium for physicians and are generally 2 hours from major cities. Not terrible but not close.

It may be offensive but from my firsthand experience a lot of these places are cultural wastelands. I've seen the Confederate flag proudly on people's front yard while driving to clinic. I remember a scrub nurse refer to a minority physician as that "colored doctor " and it was said in a non malicious manner, just how the thought process was and it was the norm.

As a minority with a family, some parts of the country are kind of off limits. It's just reality and I'll pay a premium to minimize being exposed to the above.

And I'm not trying to say that any of those top 16 cities are meccas for racial harmony because that's far from the truth as well.

 

[dhb]

It may be offensive but from my firsthand experience a lot of these places are cultural wastelands. I've seen the Confederate flag proudly on people's front yard while driving to clinic. I remember a scrub nurse refer to a minority physician as that "colored doctor " and it was said in a non malicious manner, just how the thought process was and it was the norm.

As a minority with a family, some parts of the country are kind of off limits.

Wouldn't you rather have someone call you colored in a non malicious way than someone thinking you're a n...? If you suck at what you do and/or are a a-hole you'll be called every color of the rainbow wherever you practice.

PS: "If women would have sex in cardboard boxes, men wouldn't buy houses"
Dave Cappelle

 

[Hoya11]

I don't think anyone is implying that SF or NYC are the only places with culture etc. Any of those cities listed earlier are fine.

What was posted by the OP was that moving to BFE is a great financial move. When someone says BFE, I think of places in Central/Southern PA, rural AL, SE Ohio, parts of West Virginia just to name a few regions. Living in Portland is not BFE.

These places will pay a premium for physicians and are generally 2 hours from major cities. Not terrible but not close.

It may be offensive but from my firsthand experience a lot of these places are cultural wastelands. I've seen the Confederate flag proudly on people's front yard while driving to clinic. I remember a scrub nurse refer to a minority physician as that "colored doctor " and it was said in a non malicious manner, just how the thought process was and it was the norm.

As a minority with a family, some parts of the country are kind of off limits. It's just reality and I'll pay a premium to minimize being exposed to the above.

And I'm not trying to say that any of those top 16 cities are meccas for racial harmony because that's far from the truth as well.

I think that you are living in BFE if the richest people in your area are physicians/healthcare execs. This has been the case in the two non top-5 places I lived in (Upstate NY and then Cleveland area). The people associated with the hospital/university/healthcare system were the only ones making 200k+ with a few in the 500k range. Those were the kings of the town because there simply was no other industry around.

That should say something about the opportunities that will be available to your children brought up in those places. Unless your sons/daughters want to become physicians, and even if they do, they will likely venture far from this BFE area and never return. As opposed to a top 5 area where families can live for generations. IMO the best deal is something inbetween: I wouldnt want to live in rural WV, but I wouldnt live in midtown manhattan either. Being an hour or less from a major (top 5) city is ideal IMO. Good schools, culture, higher pay than in the city itself, dont have to live in all the hubub, moderate sized house, and stuff to do within the city on day trips whenever you want. Also, a house for 1 million plus and debt free by 50? that sounds pretty incredible. I dont think I need a 1 million dollar house especially in BFE, that sounds like a palace .. why?

 

[BobBarker]

Sounds lovely. You hiring? I so want some goats.

We will maybe in a year. We aren't as isolated as some are thinking above. 45 minutes away and your can watch an NBA game.

Kevin, Bobby Joe, and Pete from left to right.

 

[deleted162650]

We will maybe in a year. We aren't as isolated as some are thinking above. 45 minutes away and your can watch an NBA game.

Kevin, Bobby Joe, and Pete from left to right.

You named your goat Kevin??

 

[BobBarker]

Yes.

 

[GravelRider]

I don't think so. Of course it depends on your specialty and which city. But I used to live in one of those cities at the top of the list (say 1-5) and made about 200k. I moved to a city still on that list (towards the bottom 1/3) and instantly made over 600k the next year. Some of that might be accounted for with career progression but the kicker is that cost of living is definitely AT LEAST 3x cheaper despite still being in a "top 20" city. I know this because we were looking for houses prior to moving in comparable suburbs close to the city and city A was like 2 million plus for anything decent and city B was like 600k. That means relatively, if you account for buying power I make NINE times more. Anecdotal, I know, but have plenty of friends who have moved and said similar.

What you said is true though- there are great jobs in the top 5 city but they are very scarce and really mostly for older/entrenched doctors or a few famous doctors that cater to the ultra-rich. There are definitely a few raking in many millions a year, but if you are a newbie doc in one of those cities just be realistic about the actual magnitude of the paycut you are taking to be near family, or ocean or "culture" or whatever.


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I know for a fact that you can buy a home within a 30 minute commute of NYC in a superb public school district for well under a million. 500k is a reasonable starting point. Now if you MUST live in a McMansion or a penthouse overlooking Central Park then you are going pay more. There's a lot of false assumptions of what the true cost of living in NYC, DC, and Boston are. A doctor in those cities is firmly in the upper middle class. If your expectation as a doctor is to drive a couple Ferraris and have a waterfront mansion then you are probably right that those top metro areas are not for you.

I do agree that the attainable jobs in the top 10 cities are mostly terrible, though. However, I think that virus is spreading pretty quickly to other areas.

 

[doctalaughs]

I know for a fact that you can buy a home within a 30 minute commute of NYC in a superb public school district for well under a million. 500k is a reasonable starting point. Now if you MUST live in a McMansion or a penthouse overlooking Central Park then you are going pay more. There's a lot of false assumptions of what the true cost of living in NYC, DC, and Boston are. A doctor in those cities is firmly in the upper middle class. If your expectation as a doctor is to drive a couple Ferraris and have a waterfront mansion then you are probably right that those top metro areas are not for you.

I do agree that the attainable jobs in the top 10 cities are mostly terrible, though. However, I think that virus is spreading pretty quickly to other areas.

It depends how you define "superb." If you take the "top three" suburbs within 30 minutes of a city defined as those with the highest-rated public schools, lowest crime rates, and highest educational attainment then most new physicians will be priced-out of these areas in "top 5" cities. If you are willing to live in an area a couple rungs down the ladder- sure you can live an upper-middle class lifestyle there although you may have a smaller/older house. In a "top 25" city most doctors can pretty much live in "the best" close suburb and live a fairly upper-class lifestyle (ie have college fully funded by the time 2-3 kids get to that age, pay down debt within 10 years of starting, pay for all cars with cash, take as many vacations as you want etc)


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[nimbus]

I think that you are living in BFE if the richest people in your area are physicians/healthcare execs. This has been the case in the two non top-5 places I lived in (Upstate NY and then Cleveland area). The people associated with the hospital/university/healthcare system were the only ones making 200k+ with a few in the 500k range. Those were the kings of the town because there simply was no other industry around.

That should say something about the opportunities that will be available to your children brought up in those places. Unless your sons/daughters want to become physicians, and even if they do, they will likely venture far from this BFE area and never return. As opposed to a top 5 area where families can live for generations. IMO the best deal is something inbetween: I wouldnt want to live in rural WV, but I wouldnt live in midtown manhattan either. Being an hour or less from a major (top 5) city is ideal IMO. Good schools, culture, higher pay than in the city itself, dont have to live in all the hubub, moderate sized house, and stuff to do within the city on day trips whenever you want. Also, a house for 1 million plus and debt free by 50? that sounds pretty incredible. I dont think I need a 1 million dollar house especially in BFE, that sounds like a palace .. why?

I work in southern Ca and let's just say we have a lot of Packer fans here in the OR. I personally grew up in a nice suburb of Cleveland, went to good schools there and have fond memories of that place from childhood. So I know what life is like there. Other people can have it and it's low cost of living. The good thing is that as physicians we have a choice and can have a good life, save for retirement and pay for our kids' school just about anywhere.

 

[nimbus]

Wha

We will maybe in a year. We aren't as isolated as some are thinking above. 45 minutes away and your can watch an NBA game.

Kevin, Bobby Joe, and Pete from left to right.

What kind of dog is Pete?

 

[BobBarker]

Anatolian Shepherd.

Great dog. Protects the goats from coyotes. Best employee I have.

 

[chocomorsel]

Anatolian Shepherd.

Great dog. Protects the goats from coyotes. Best employee I have.

Living my dream. I love it. Now where you are, are the winters bad? And what is your ratio of supervision to doing your own cases?

I find that where I want to live the dream, I either A. have to put up with crappy winters or B. supervise over 90% of the time. And I enjoy doing my own cases more than supervising, but I can do it if it is less than 60%. And I have thought of CA farmland due to the nice weather, but those state taxes are not worth it to me.

 

[sevoflurane]

We will maybe in a year. We aren't as isolated as some are thinking above. 45 minutes away and your can watch an NBA game.

Kevin, Bobby Joe, and Pete from left to right.

👍

BFE isn't all bad. That's for sure. That pic says a lot about your life. Awesome.
I have very fond memories of being out there finding stuff to do.
It's where my wife ended up becoming passionate about guns.

She sooo kicks my butt at target/pig feet shooting practice.

 

[Twiggidy]

I don't know what he is saying. "Buying as much as you can afford" should not be in lieu of retirement savings,etc. Sounds lime we agree on that. His post is ambiguous and needs clarification though. If you have a standard job in hcol area and save appropriately (per White Coat Investor) then what remains is what you have for a home purchase. There simply will not be room in budget to flex up on a home unless you are independently wealthy or do so at the expense of retirement.

That's great for your parents but past performance does not guarantee future results. That's why this thinking is dangerous.

I'm saying that a home in areas like, San Francisco, Boston, New York, and LA will nearly always gain value even in times when the market takes a plunge. A million dollar home in New York will almost easily be 1.5 in 10-15 years, and you can even included neighborhoods like Harlem which are "transitioning". Now, if you you go further down that list, yes, you should be more cautious, but in reality you don't need to spend a million dollars to have a nice home in Chicago, Denver, or Portland. The four cities I listed above are the places where foreign investors love to purchase for portfolios and will happily spend $1000 per square foot or more on a house. So no matter how much you want to deny it, in the Bay Area, Boston, New York, LA., probably Miami...you're home is significant part of you nest egg and is probably the best investment you can make. Other cities not so much. But a 300k home and put the rest of you money in the bank

 

[BobBarker]

Oklahoma. It can get really cold but that is rare. Less than 10 snowy/icy days a year. Just doing pain only. Our OR is closed but construction on the new OR's is underway. Hence, the maybe next year. Surgeons moved on to other hospitals for procedures but do clinic here still.

 

[chocomorsel]

I don't think anyone is implying that SF or NYC are the only places with culture etc. Any of those cities listed earlier are fine.

What was posted by the OP was that moving to BFE is a great financial move. When someone says BFE, I think of places in Central/Southern PA, rural AL, SE Ohio, parts of West Virginia just to name a few regions. Living in Portland is not BFE.

These places will pay a premium for physicians and are generally 2 hours from major cities. Not terrible but not close.

It may be offensive but from my firsthand experience a lot of these places are cultural wastelands. I've seen the Confederate flag proudly on people's front yard while driving to clinic. I remember a scrub nurse refer to a minority physician as that "colored doctor " and it was said in a non malicious manner, just how the thought process was and it was the norm.

As a minority with a family, some parts of the country are kind of off limits. It's just reality and I'll pay a premium to minimize being exposed to the above.

And I'm not trying to say that any of those top 16 cities are meccas for racial harmony because that's far from the truth as well.[/QUOTE

Incidentally, at my last job, in rural PA, I kept trying to teach this one tech that it was "not OK" to call me or any person of color "colored". I know she was doing it in a non-malicious way, absolutely, because she was a very nice kind woman. But it was weird. And this truck with a confederate flag did stick a bat out the window aimed at me. That though was a good job for me. I didn't make a premium at all, but for the work I did, it was fair pay. In other words, I wasn't killing myself with work, which is how I like it. And besides a couple of incidents, were an old lady called me a bad word, everyone was very, nice and appreciative of my presence. I kinda miss that little hospital. Don't miss the cold.

I don't let things like the above bother me too much though because I know there are ignorant fools everywhere. Including NYC and San Fran. Long as they aren't burning down **** on my lawn or laying a hand on me, I don't really give a damn what they say. If they don't want me to touch them because of my color, then to hell with them. I got other patient who want my help. Of course getting my SO, to see it that way is a different story.

 

[Twiggidy]

This sounds pretty amazing.

But here's a personal question and you obviously don't have to answer it- but do you have kids?
I live in one of the those cities on the list because of my kids. With me and my kids being non-white, I've always felt a diverse urban setting would be best for them.

There's truth in this, especially given what's happened in the US in the past year....

 

[sevoflurane]

I'm saying that a home in areas like, San Francisco, Boston, New York, and LA will nearly always gain value even in times when the market takes a plunge. A million dollar home in New York will almost easily be 1.5 in 10-15 years, and you can even included neighborhoods like Harlem which are "transitioning". Now, if you you go further down that list, yes, you should be more cautious, but in reality you don't need to spend a million dollars to have a nice home in Chicago, Denver, or Portland. The four cities I listed above are the places where foreign investors love to purchase for portfolios and will happily spend $1000 per square foot or more on a house. So no matter how much you want to deny it, in the Bay Area, Boston, New York, LA., probably Miami...you're home is significant part of you nest egg and is probably the best investment you can make. Other cities not so much. But a 300k home and put the rest of you money in the bank

Prolly true. My parents live in the Bay Area. Their home has almost doubled in price in 15 years... and that's including a big housing bubble that burst.
Recovered faster than most other cities and then some. Still, they pay almost 25k a year in property taxes. Ugh...

 

[chocomorsel]

Incidentally, at my last job, in rural PA, I kept trying to teach this one tech that it was "not OK" to call me or any person of color "colored". I know she was doing it in a non-malicious way, absolutely, because she was a very nice kind woman. But it was weird. And this truck with a confederate flag did stick a bat out the window aimed at me. That though was a good job for me. I didn't make a premium at all, but for the work I did, it was fair pay. In other words, I wasn't killing myself with work, which is how I like it. And besides a couple of incidents, were an old lady called me a bad word, everyone was very, nice and appreciative of my presence. I kinda miss that little hospital. Don't miss the cold.

I don't let things like the above bother me too much though because I know there are ignorant fools everywhere. Including NYC and San Fran. Long as they aren't burning down **** on my lawn or laying a hand on me, I don't really give a damn what they say. If they don't want me to touch them because of my color, then to hell with them. I got other patient who want my help. Of course getting my SO, to see it that way is a different story.

 

[chocomorsel]

Prolly true. My parents live in the Bay Area. Their home has almost doubled in price in 15 years... and that's including a big housing bubble that burst.
Recovered faster than most other cities and then some. Still, they pay almost 25k a year in property taxes. Ugh...

Geez, I pay that much in mortgage and am trying to cut back.

 

[chocomorsel]

There's truth in this, especially given what's happened in the US in the past year....

Many of those things that have happened to people of color, have happened in the cities though. Not necessarily in BFE.
There is racism and ignorance everywhere. Sure some more than others, but I am not gonna pretend that in the big cities, everyone is gonna be all welcoming and loving either. Ehh...

 

[doctalaughs]

I think that you are living in BFE if the richest people in your area are physicians/healthcare execs. This has been the case in the two non top-5 places I lived in (Upstate NY and then Cleveland area). The people associated with the hospital/university/healthcare system were the only ones making 200k+ with a few in the 500k range. Those were the kings of the town because there simply was no other industry around.

That should say something about the opportunities that will be available to your children brought up in those places. Unless your sons/daughters want to become physicians, and even if they do, they will likely venture far from this BFE area and never return. As opposed to a top 5 area where families can live for generations. IMO the best deal is something inbetween: I wouldnt want to live in rural WV, but I wouldnt live in midtown manhattan either. Being an hour or less from a major (top 5) city is ideal IMO. Good schools, culture, higher pay than in the city itself, dont have to live in all the hubub, moderate sized house, and stuff to do within the city on day trips whenever you want. Also, a house for 1 million plus and debt free by 50? that sounds pretty incredible. I dont think I need a 1 million dollar house especially in BFE, that sounds like a palace .. why?

I think there is a disconnect because your definition would fit the probably the top 100 largest cities in the US, not the top 5. In even mid-sized cities there are plenty of engineers, lawyers, small business owners and "opportunity" for your kids to do well without being a doctor. The difference is that in the "top 5" doctors are pushed out of that top class since there are so many i-bankers, large corporate law partners, wall-streeters, tech executives, hollywood producers etc making many multiples of a doctor's salary.

My observation is that the salary differential for an average physician is much greater between a "top 5" city and a "top 25" city than between a "top 25" and real BFE. As I illustrated personally in the former example, salaries for a specialist can easily go from 200, 250k to 600k- which when you factor in buying power means a 10x differential. Even if if you move out to BFE your salary is still not likely to ever break 7 figures as a physician so the differential beyond top 25 may be only 30% more.

I'm not sure why this is so. I think it's more than just supply and demand. Possibly once a city hits a certain size a few huge players are able to create monopolies thus decreasing salaries. Or maybe the academic institutions churn out enough trainees that a certain percentage stay because it feels "comfortable" thus depressing salaries.


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[Twiggidy]

I don't think anyone is implying that SF or NYC are the only places with culture etc. Any of those cities listed earlier are fine.

What was posted by the OP was that moving to BFE is a great financial move. When someone says BFE, I think of places in Central/Southern PA, rural AL, SE Ohio, parts of West Virginia just to name a few regions. Living in Portland is not BFE.

These places will pay a premium for physicians and are generally 2 hours from major cities. Not terrible but not close.

It may be offensive but from my firsthand experience a lot of these places are cultural wastelands. I've seen the Confederate flag proudly on people's front yard while driving to clinic. I remember a scrub nurse refer to a minority physician as that "colored doctor " and it was said in a non malicious manner, just how the thought process was and it was the norm.

As a minority with a family, some parts of the country are kind of off limits. It's just reality and I'll pay a premium to minimize being exposed to the above.

And I'm not trying to say that any of those top 16 cities are meccas for racial harmony because that's far from the truth as well.

These are the things most of you guys on here don't have to consider and unfortunately it's just the country in which we live. Now in no way is anonperson or myself saying everyone in "the sticks" is racist but why take the chance when it involves your livelihood, your family, and your sanity.

Plus, "Hamilton" is only a taxi ride away.....so there's that too

 

[Twiggidy]

Many of those things that have happened to people of color, have happened in the cities though. Not necessarily in BFE.
There is racism and ignorance everywhere. Sure some more than others, but I am not gonna pretend that in the big cities, everyone is gonna be all welcoming and loving either. Ehh...

Also truth.....

 

[Twiggidy]

Here's the question of the thread......

What if a job is with an AMC that has had not so good reviews on this very forum but is in an affordable city?

What's the play?

 

[Mman]

I'm saying that a home in areas like, San Francisco, Boston, New York, and LA will nearly always gain value even in times when the market takes a plunge. A million dollar home in New York will almost easily be 1.5 in 10-15 years, and you can even included neighborhoods like Harlem which are "transitioning".

Sure those homes can almost always go up in price. The thing, is, though, that a 50% increase in value over 10-15 years is kind of a horrible investment for retirement planning, especially when it ignores the math of paying larger property taxes each year. I mean that's an annual increase of 4.1% (50% in 10 years) or 2.8% (5o% in 15 years). You can get municipal bond funds that will have a better after tax return than that, let alone what you'd expect from the stock market over the long haul.

You'd have a better retirement by living in a smaller home and investing the difference.

 

[pgg]

Living my dream. I love it. Now where you are, are the winters bad? And what is your ratio of supervision to doing your own cases?

I find that where I want to live the dream, I either A. have to put up with crappy winters or B. supervise over 90% of the time. And I enjoy doing my own cases more than supervising, but I can do it if it is less than 60%. And I have thought of CA farmland due to the nice weather, but those state taxes are not worth it to me.

CA farmland (I assume you're mostly talking about the central valley) has nice weather except for the summer, when it's brutally hot. Figure a month+ of upper 90s low 100s. It ain't Phoenix, but it's pretty hot. Low humidity makes it better.

Also, the air quality is very, very poor. As in, consistently ranked as top 5 "worst in the nation". You get used to it and it sort of slips your mind ... then every once in a while it will rain and suddenly the Sierra Nevada mountains are visible again - and not so far away. And you think ... what was I breathing the last 6 months ...

 

[doctalaughs]

Sure those homes can almost always go up in price. The thing, is, though, that a 50% increase in value over 10-15 years is kind of a horrible investment for retirement planning, especially when it ignores the math of paying larger property taxes each year. I mean that's an annual increase of 4.1% (50% in 10 years) or 2.8% (5o% in 15 years). You can get municipal bond funds that will have a better after tax return than that, let alone what you'd expect from the stock market over the long haul.

You'd have a better retirement by living in a smaller home and investing the difference.

Also I do not think it's true that the housing market over the last 15 years has been better for the "top 5" versus "top 25" cities. While larger cities definitely do better than America as a whole, stretching yourself to getting the max loan of 1.5 mill on a 275k salary (because thats what you need to get something decent in your city) is certainly a poor decision if you look at it from a financial-only standpoint. Spending less than 10-15% of your income on housing gives tremendously more opportunity to build wealth.


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[doctalaughs]

These are the things most of you guys on here don't have to consider and unfortunately it's just the country in which we live. Now in no way is anonperson or myself saying everyone in "the sticks" is racist but why take the chance when it involves your livelihood, your family, and your sanity.

Plus, "Hamilton" is only a taxi ride away.....so there's that too

I would also avoid truly rural areas in your shoes (or even in my situation being a religious minority). However, I think it would be hard to argue that tolerance is so much better in 1 or 2 top cities compared to other major metro areas. Although I guess if Hamilton is the deciding factor 😉 ....


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[chocomorsel]

CA farmland (I assume you're mostly talking about the central valley) has nice weather except for the summer, when it's brutally hot. Figure a month+ of upper 90s low 100s. It ain't Phoenix, but it's pretty hot. Low humidity makes it better.

Also, the air quality is very, very poor. As in, consistently ranked as top 5 "worst in the nation". You get used to it and it sort of slips your mind ... then every once in a while it will rain and suddenly the Sierra Nevada mountains are visible again - and not so far away. And you think ... what was I breathing the last 6 months ...

I did look up living in Fresno and then read about the air quality. And that plus the taxes killed it for me. You are absolutely right.
Also, I am from Texas where we enjoy at least 4 months of the years worth of 90+ weather. With humidity. A month is nothing.

 

[nimbus]

I would also avoid truly rural areas in your shoes (or even in my situation being a religious minority). However, I think it would be hard to argue that tolerance is so much better in 1 or 2 top cities compared to other major metro areas. Although I guess if Hamilton is the deciding factor 😉 ....


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It's not just about tolerance. It's also about giving your kids an opportunity to go to school with other kids who look like them or eat similar food. The big cities can provide that. BFE not so much.

 

[anonperson]

Wouldn't you rather have someone call you colored in a non malicious way than someone thinking you're a n...? If you suck at what you do and/or are a a-hole you'll be called every color of the rainbow wherever you practice.

PS: "If women would have sex in cardboard boxes, men wouldn't buy houses"
Dave Cappelle

I'd prefer neither to be honest.

And the scrub tech referred to the doctor as in "what was that colored docs name again" to a small group of people. Not because the doctor in question sucked or was difficult to work with. Just how their thought process was regarding race and how to describe it.

 

[anonperson]

I think that you are living in BFE if the richest people in your area are physicians/healthcare execs. This has been the case in the two non top-5 places I lived in (Upstate NY and then Cleveland area). The people associated with the hospital/university/healthcare system were the only ones making 200k+ with a few in the 500k range. Those were the kings of the town because there simply was no other industry around.

Sounds pretty accurate.

That should say something about the opportunities that will be available to your children brought up in those places. Unless your sons/daughters want to become physicians, and even if they do, they will likely venture far from this BFE area and never return. As opposed to a top 5 area where families can live for generations. IMO the best deal is something inbetween: I wouldnt want to live in rural WV, but I wouldnt live in midtown manhattan either. Being an hour or less from a major (top 5) city is ideal IMO. Good schools, culture, higher pay than in the city itself, dont have to live in all the hubub, moderate sized house, and stuff to do within the city on day trips whenever you want. Also, a house for 1 million plus and debt free by 50? that sounds pretty incredible. I dont think I need a 1 million dollar house especially in BFE, that sounds like a palace .. why?

True as well. If living in BFE, can't expect the kids to hang around. Will most likely have to leave to finally get a job. Not saying kids have to be tied to your hip when they're adults but it's nice to keep those connections when you get older. Living 20-40 minutes from my parents and siblings is pretty nice and means grandkids can get together etc.

 

[dhb]

I'd prefer neither to be honest.

And the scrub tech referred to the doctor as in "what was that colored docs name again" to a small group of people. Not because the doctor in question sucked or was difficult to work with. Just how their thought process was regarding race and how to describe it.

I like to think that we are all of the same race, just different colors.

 

[aneftp]

Crna I know is gonna to work "full time" for Feds Indian reservation in BFE what amounts to 20 weeks for $175k.

Per hour wise. She probably gonna to make double what most docs do even at the VA. She likely ain't working more than 25 hours a week in those 20 weeks.

Full time is 26 weeks on 26 weeks off. But 6 weeks paid vacation. So 20 weeks for 25 hour work week ain't bad deal.

 

[GravelRider]

Crna I know is gonna to work "full time" for Feds Indian reservation in BFE what amounts to 20 weeks for $175k.

Per hour wise. She probably gonna to make double what most docs do even at the VA. She likely ain't working more than 25 hours a week in those 20 weeks.

Full time is 26 weeks on 26 weeks off. But 6 weeks paid vacation. So 20 weeks for 25 hour work week ain't bad deal.

And she'll be able to get cheap cigarettes. Think of all the extra retirement savings!

 

[deleted162650]

Crna I know is gonna to work "full time" for Feds Indian reservation in BFE what amounts to 20 weeks for $175k.

Per hour wise. She probably gonna to make double what most docs do even at the VA. She likely ain't working more than 25 hours a week in those 20 weeks.

Full time is 26 weeks on 26 weeks off. But 6 weeks paid vacation. So 20 weeks for 25 hour work week ain't bad deal.

Ya, but they pay in wampum.

 

[facted]

Sure those homes can almost always go up in price. The thing, is, though, that a 50% increase in value over 10-15 years is kind of a horrible investment for retirement planning, especially when it ignores the math of paying larger property taxes each year. I mean that's an annual increase of 4.1% (50% in 10 years) or 2.8% (5o% in 15 years). You can get municipal bond funds that will have a better after tax return than that, let alone what you'd expect from the stock market over the long haul.

You'd have a better retirement by living in a smaller home and investing the difference.

Except where I live rentals for a home like mine are basically as much as my mortgage. The investment return on me renting a place is 0.0%. So what's the play then?

 

[nimbus]

Crna I know is gonna to work "full time" for Feds Indian reservation in BFE what amounts to 20 weeks for $175k.

Per hour wise. She probably gonna to make double what most docs do even at the VA. She likely ain't working more than 25 hours a week in those 20 weeks.

Full time is 26 weeks on 26 weeks off. But 6 weeks paid vacation. So 20 weeks for 25 hour work week ain't bad deal.

What would you do on an Indian reservation with the rest of your time if you're only working 25hrs a week? The weeks off would certainly be nice.

 

[doctalaughs]

Sounds pretty accurate.



True as well. If living in BFE, can't expect the kids to hang around. Will most likely have to leave to finally get a job. Not saying kids have to be tied to your hip when they're adults but it's nice to keep those connections when you get older. Living 20-40 minutes from my parents and siblings is pretty nice and means grandkids can get together etc.

True for BFE, but if you are looking at top 1-5 cities don't forget kids may actually leave because things are too ridiculously expensive. For example, I grew up in a #1-5 city and living in my childhood neighborhood (which my parents did on a middle class income of 30, 35k / year in the 70s) would now require a 2 million dollar home purchase. Therefore it's fairly restricted to CEOs, 2 high earning physicians, 2 lawyers, ibanker etc. of which there are plenty in that area. I could probably squeeze by with my current income (not saving much) but no way on what they were offering there- 200-250k.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[deleted162650]

Incidentally, at my last job, in rural PA, I kept trying to teach this one tech that it was "not OK" to call me or any person of color "colored". I know she was doing it in a non-malicious way, absolutely, because she was a very nice kind woman. But it was weird. And this truck with a confederate flag did stick a bat out the window aimed at me. That though was a good job for me. I didn't make a premium at all, but for the work I did, it was fair pay. In other words, I wasn't killing myself with work, which is how I like it. And besides a couple of incidents, were an old lady called me a bad word, everyone was very, nice and appreciative of my presence. I kinda miss that little hospital. Don't miss the cold.

I don't let things like the above bother me too much though because I know there are ignorant fools everywhere. Including NYC and San Fran. Long as they aren't burning down **** on my lawn or laying a hand on me, I don't really give a damn what they say. If they don't want me to touch them because of my color, then to hell with them. I got other patient who want my help. Of course getting my SO, to see it that way is a different story.

I find it a little odd that you were not OK with that person calling you "colored", yet you ask us to call you "chocomorsel". 😀

 

[GravelRider]

One could even argue that buying a home at all in the current environment is a bad idea. Do you know that the job you just took is going to be great in 10-15 years? No AMC is coming to town in the next decade? Nothing chains you to a bad job more than over-buying a house. That goes for NYC and BFE (maybe more so in BFE because it's more difficult to unload that house).

 

[Hoya11]

Crna I know is gonna to work "full time" for Feds Indian reservation in BFE what amounts to 20 weeks for $175k.

Per hour wise. She probably gonna to make double what most docs do even at the VA. She likely ain't working more than 25 hours a week in those 20 weeks.

Full time is 26 weeks on 26 weeks off. But 6 weeks paid vacation. So 20 weeks for 25 hour work week ain't bad deal.

sounds like a nick cage horror movie

 

[Mman]

Except where I live rentals for a home like mine are basically as much as my mortgage. The investment return on me renting a place is 0.0%. So what's the play then?

I'm not arguing against buying a house. I'm arguing against buying the biggest house you can because it will appreciate in value and be a retirement asset. A house should be purchased to live in, not as an investment, there are far better investments out there.

 

[pgg]

Yeah, buy a home to live in, not as an investment. And be prepared to own it for an extended period of time (decade+) if the housing market tanks.

Long term, real estate tends to keep pace with inflation. Mortgage rates are still near historic lows, and it would only take a modest rise to significantly increase the 30-y mortgage payment a buyer can afford. When that day comes it'll exert a significant downward pressure on home prices.

It is totally possible that the house you buy today for $X will still be worth $X in 10 or 15 or 20 years.

 

[GravelRider]

I'm not a financial guru...nor do I pretend to be. Sometimes I wonder if you are better off renting your own home and instead owning real estate that you can rent. You get the benefits of real estate ownership, cash flow from rent, and you are still pretty mobile should job circumstances change. Obviously there are many factors to consider, such as the robustness of your local rental market and your desire to be a landlord, but it doesn't seem to be a bad strategy to me. People move much more often nowadays and the idea of buying the most house you can afford (in whatever market) and staying there for 30 years building equity seems a bit old fashioned. I haven't lived in the same city for more than 4 years since I graduated high school.

 

[chocomorsel]

I find it a little odd that you were not OK with that person calling you "colored", yet you ask us to call you "chocomorsel". 😀

"Colored" comes from an age of ignorance, and was used as a word to describe the "inferior" races.
My silly internet nickname is just that. And one that describes me and one that I give MYSELF. Not one, some other race has used in a poor connotation in the past.
Is this really even a question?

 

[deleted162650]

"Colored" comes from an age of ignorance, and was used as a word to describe the "inferior" races.
My silly internet nickname is just that. And one that describes me and one that I give MYSELF. Not one, some other race has used in a poor connotation in the past.
Is this really even a question?

Chill choco - I was just teasin'. I was trying to make that clear with the emoji's but I know tone doesn't always translate in print. I completely understand where you're coming from.