Why is AA (and the like) based on race? (no bait thread)

[Iamthep]

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Slightly off topic, but is there data comparing step 1,2 and 3 scores by race?

There is this small graphic.
http://journals.lww.com/academicmedicine/pages/imagegallery.aspx?year=2001&issue=12000&article=00021

And there is also this report.
http://www.ceousa.org/attachments/article/653/MDMED.pdf

 

[Erakis]

How so?

The white guy running around with his giant baton of money, Yale cup, and finally having a treadmill built by his "connections" does not reflect the upbringing and opportunities of many white people. Making such a broad generalization is only a small step up from dropping a racial slur in impeding civil discourse.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

The white guy running around with his giant baton of money, Yale cup, and finally having a treadmill built by his "connections" does not reflect the upbringing and opportunities of many white people. Making such a broad generalization is only a small step up from dropping a racial slur in impeding civil discourse.

REALLY? saying that White people in general have benefited from current and historic socio-economic and discriminatory policies which favoured them at the expense of people of Colour (which is a FACTUAL statement) is nearly on par with calling me a n!gger for no reason?

It's hilarious how the fact that you don't realise how privileged you are, shows exactly how privileged you are lol.

 

[Erakis]

REALLY? saying that White people in general have benefited from current and historic socio-economic and discriminatory policies which favoured them at the expense of people of Colour (which is a FACTUAL statement) is nearly on par with calling me a n!gger for no reason?

It's hilarious how the fact that you don't realise how privileged you are, shows exactly how privileged you are lol.

Calling me privileged without knowing the first thing about me just shows exactly how prejudiced you are.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Calling me privileged without knowing the first thing about me just shows exactly how prejudiced you are.

You've revealed more than enough about yourself and your perspective in your comments, which are borderline offensive and show a fundamental lack of understanding of the challenges that people of Colour face in this country. I don't need to pre-judge you when you're the one shaping my opinion of you. You may not have bags of money but that doesn't mean you're not privileged.

 

[MedPR]

REALLY? saying that White people in general have benefited from current and historic socio-economic and discriminatory policies which favoured them at the expense of people of Colour (which is a FACTUAL statement) is nearly on par with calling me a n!gger for no reason?

It's hilarious how the fact that you don't realise how privileged you are, shows exactly how privileged you are lol.

 

[MedPR]

You've revealed more than enough about yourself and your perspective in your comments, which are borderline offensive and show a fundamental lack of understanding of the challenges that people of Colour face in this country. I don't need to pre-judge you when you're the one shaping my opinion of you. You may not have bags of money but that doesn't mean you're not privileged.

 

[113]

Colour

U a Brit bro?

 

[Erakis]

You've revealed more than enough about yourself and your perspective in your comments, which are borderline offensive and show a fundamental lack of understanding of the challenges that people of Colour face in this country. I don't need to pre-judge you when you're the one shaping my opinion of you. You may not have bags of money but that doesn't mean you're not privileged.

I never said that minorities don't face challenges. As a matter of fact, if you looked at any of my past postings on the matter, you will see that I have supported URM programs, both because I understand the average educational disadvantages and the public health benefits of patient-provider concordance.

I was pointing out the irony that an organization (that made the video) that is so sensitive to generalizations and offensive stereotypes would use such a stereotype to sell their message. You read one comment and became angry because I don't subscribe to the divisive components of critical race theory presented in the video. Propaganda is 90% fact with a 10% spin. Assuming that one has automatic privelige because of their ethnicity is a very myopic world view.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I never said that minorities don't face challenges. As a matter of fact, if you looked at any of my past postings on the matter, you will see that I have supported URM programs, both because I understand the average educational disadvantages and the public health benefits of patient-provider concordance.

I was pointing out the irony that an organization (that made the video) that is so sensitive to generalizations and offensive stereotypes would use such a stereotype to sell their message. You read one comment and became angry because I don't subscribe to the divisive components of critical race theory presented in the video. Propaganda is 90% fact with a 10% spin. Assuming that one has automatic privelige because of their ethnicity is a very myopic world view.

that's fair. my apologies for jumping the gun

U a Brit bro?

Caribbean....although the whole world spells it that way except for Americans lol. Used to get me in trouble when I came back here in middle school but I never fully switched over to the US spelling

 

[Erakis]

that's fair. my apologies for jumping the gun

Very gracious of you. No worries.

 

[deleted393595]

AA applicants match predominantly higher into primary care and lower into specialities.

Not sure if this is a result of weak stats, or because of interest in primary care.

I'll link to the match data report in a bit.

 

[113]

that's fair. my apologies for jumping the gun



Caribbean....although the whole world spells it that way except for Americans lol. Used to get me in trouble when I came back here in middle school but I never fully switched over to the US spelling

US spelling is the right spelling.

Murica **** yeah 🙂

 

[Plue00]

that's fair. my apologies for jumping the gun



Caribbean....although the whole world spells it that way except for Americans lol. Used to get me in trouble when I came back here in middle school but I never fully switched over to the US spelling

Very gracious of you. No worries.

Damn it, I thought we were was going to get a show. Since when does anyone on SDN get along??

 

[Ost3oclast]

Damn it, I thought we were was going to get a show. Since when does anyone on SDN get along??

Just wait....it will come.

Also......In

 

[lobo.solo]

The white guy running around with his giant baton of money, Yale cup, and finally having a treadmill built by his "connections" does not reflect the upbringing and opportunities of many white people. Making such a broad generalization is only a small step up from dropping a racial slur in impeding civil discourse.

Sure that is not the case for everyone, but it exists. People that try to minimize discrimination and barriers that some segments of the population experience live an a fantasy world. If you think that the Jim Crow era didn't have a significant impact in the education and wealth accumulated by some people, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you need to learn about it.

 

[VictorAlpha]

**** where were you 5 minutes ago? I could've used my gif for this instead of prematurely blowing my load.

I have a great image loaded in the chamber...I can't wait

I hope I'm not building it up too much

 

[circulus vitios]

I don't get it either. There is a large disparity between racial makeup of medical students, but there is MASSIVE disparity between socioeconomic makeup of medical students. Median family income for medical students is something like $110k and I believe 30 or 40% of fathers of medical students have a doctorate of some type.

edit: 52% of fathers of medical students hold a doctorate, 35% of mothers. Compare this to 12% and 10%, respectively, for the entire US population. https://www.aamc.org/download/142770/data/aibvol9_no10.pdf

$100k/year median family income in 2006. I remember reading a $110k/year figure from more recent stats. https://www.aamc.org/download/102338/data/aibvol8no1.pdf

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I don't get it either. There is a large disparity between racial makeup of medical students, but there is MASSIVE disparity between socioeconomic makeup of medical students. Median family income for medical students is something like $110k and I believe 30 or 40% of fathers of medical students have a doctorate of some type.

edit: 52% of fathers of medical students hold a doctorate, 35% of mothers. Compare this to 12% and 10%, respectively, for the entire US population. https://www.aamc.org/download/142770/data/aibvol9_no10.pdf

$100k/year median family income in 2006. I remember reading a $110k/year figure from more recent stats. https://www.aamc.org/download/102338/data/aibvol8no1.pdf

simple, the biggest predictor of successful college completion is whether or not your parents are college-educated themselves. The unfortunate truth is, despite the programmes out there to try and push people of minority and lower socioeconomic backgrounds into medicine, they aren't enough to overcome the advantages of being White and/or having money. upper-middle class parents have the money to spend on MCAT prep (which easily runs into the thousands of dollars) and on study abroad programmes and other application enhancers, while they can also subsidise their children while they work in labs for free and other advantages that poor kids don't have. I remember going on interviews where it was blatantly clear what backgrounds different applicants came from, its no surprise that having money provides a huge edge.

 

[touchpause13]

In



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[CsHead]

Calling me privileged without knowing the first thing about me just shows exactly how prejudiced you are.

I find this comment hilarious after your work in the Pledging thread.








Also, in.

 

[iave9963]

simple, the biggest predictor of successful college completion is whether or not your parents are college-educated themselves. The unfortunate truth is, despite the programmes out there to try and push people of minority and lower socioeconomic backgrounds into medicine, they aren't enough to overcome the advantages of being White and/or having money. upper-middle class parents have the money to spend on MCAT prep (which easily runs into the thousands of dollars) and on study abroad programmes and other application enhancers, while they can also subsidise their children while they work in labs for free and other advantages that poor kids don't have. I remember going on interviews where it was blatantly clear what backgrounds different applicants came from, its no surprise that having money provides a huge edge.

No offense, but you sound a little too hurt in some of your post. Did someone from a more "affluent" non minority background do some type of nefarious act to you? I do agree that AA is needed, but it sounds to me like you believe that all whites have privileges over all minorities and that simply is not true. I have white friends from the "trailer park" and trust me when I say they receive unfair treatment as well. Being 100% honest here, how many URMs applying to medical school are truly disadvantaged? I can count on one hand all the URMs that i've encountered in college that have actually experienced hardships in life due to being that "different person" or that "poor kid." It bothers the living S*** out of me when I hear URMs, who parents are doctors/lawyers/businessman and who have never experienced hardship in their life say how they are going to ride AA into a top school and how much it's needed for them simply because of race. It's true that a lot of us are from different backgrounds, but i'll never fault someone for being born into a rich white family while I was born into a poor Afro american one. Show me an Afro American who had all the cards stacked against them, worked hard and still couldn't reach "success", then I'll show you someone who has the right to complain about the "system", but until then all these others peeps, who are born into decent families, need to just honestly stop talking. [/RANT]

 

[Lexdiamondz]

No offense, but you sound a little too hurt in some of your post. Did someone from a more "affluent" non minority background do some type of nefarious act to you? I do agree that AA is needed, but it sounds to me like you believe that all whites have privileges over all minorities and that simply is not true. I have white friends from the "trailer park" and trust me when I say they receive unfair treatment as well. Being 100% honest here, how many URMs applying to medical school are truly disadvantaged? I can count on one hand all the URMs that i've encountered in college that have actually experienced hardships in life due to being that "different person" or that "poor kid." It bothers the living S*** out of me when I hear URMs, who parents are doctors/lawyers/businessman and who have never experienced hardship in their life say how they are going to ride AA into a top school and how much it's needed for them simply because of race. It's true that a lot of us are from different backgrounds, but i'll never fault someone for being born into a rich white family while I was born into a poor Afro american one. Show me an Afro American who had all the cards stacked against them, worked hard and still couldn't reach "success", then I'll show you someone who has the right to complain about the "system", but until then all these others peeps, who are born into decent families, need to just honestly stop talking. [/RANT]

It's because I've been dealing with certain people and certain perspectives for far to long for my own good.

Trust me, even though there are obvious instances where money and class trumps race, there are also many circumstances where it doesn't matter what kind of credentials you have, what kind of education you have, or what kind of profession you're a part of, you're still a n!gger. I'm saying this as someone who's been explicitly made to feel like an outsider because of my colour, accused of crimes while doing nothing wrong, and have had to tolerate being arrested and otherwise looked down on by people less educated than I am. One of my more well off cousins was almost expelled from school and sent to jail because he found drugs in his locker (which he shared with a white girl), did the "right thing" and came forward with what he saw, and his school administrators (it was a predominantly White, Catholic school) thought it was him who was dealing drugs and not her. Kid from a good family almost had his ENTIRE future destroyed because of one man's prejudices against Black folk. I know what you're saying about privileged & culturally disconnected Black people milking other people's struggles for their benefit with AA, but for better or for worse their success and wealth is as conditional as ours is, and they're only a sideways comment from being as ****ed as anyone else.

I understand that class matter, and that poor White kids have it just as bad economically as poor Black kids. But the difference between the two of us is that the poor white kid can use his disadvantaged status the same way you and I can "use" our minority status, get into medical school, and NEVER have his credentials, qualifications or competence questioned. Nobody asks him if he belongs and nobody complains that he took they spot either, whereas I gotta watch my back and constantly qualify myself to others even though I *could* have gotten into medical school without AA.

 

[KnuxNole]

I don't get it either. There is a large disparity between racial makeup of medical students, but there is MASSIVE disparity between socioeconomic makeup of medical students. Median family income for medical students is something like $110k and I believe 30 or 40% of fathers of medical students have a doctorate of some type.

edit: 52% of fathers of medical students hold a doctorate, 35% of mothers. Compare this to 12% and 10%, respectively, for the entire US population. https://www.aamc.org/download/142770/data/aibvol9_no10.pdf

$100k/year median family income in 2006. I remember reading a $110k/year figure from more recent stats. https://www.aamc.org/download/102338/data/aibvol8no1.pdf

Dang, that seems extremely high. I'm definitely in the minority there.

 

[iave9963]

I understand that class matter, and that poor White kids have it just as bad economically as poor Black kids. But the difference between the two of us is that the poor white kid can use his disadvantaged status the same way you and I can "use" our minority status, get into medical school, and NEVER have his credentials, qualifications or competence questioned. Nobody asks him if he belongs and nobody complains that he took they spot either, whereas I gotta watch my back and constantly qualify myself to others even though I *could* have gotten into medical school without AA.

This portion I can agree with. Coming into a top 20 university from a CC, I was the only Afro kid in all my science classes and peeps would treat me like i had no idea what I was talking about even when I was right/write/rite/wright most of the time. Just have to learn to ignore these actions and not brabble about it. When I go to med school will "a few" fellow peers think i was an AA baby, probably so. Will it bother me, HELL NO! For the simple fact that I will be in the same position that they are in, but to say all of them(or even most) will think this way is ignorant on your part bro. Just take a chill pill, people will think what ever no matter what, just live your life bro....ther

 

[MedPR]

I understand that class matter, and that poor White kids have it just as bad economically as poor Black kids. But the difference between the two of us is that the poor white kid can use his disadvantaged status the same way you and I can "use" our minority status, get into medical school, and NEVER have his credentials, qualifications or competence questioned. Nobody asks him if he belongs and nobody complains that he took they spot either, whereas I gotta watch my back and constantly qualify myself to others even though I *could* have gotten into medical school without AA.

Suck it up, it's the way of the world.

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[911 Turbo]

constantly qualify myself to others even though I *could* have gotten into medical school without AA.

Yeah... I never understood why URMs are not against AA. Their achievements are marginalized because a lot of people believe that they did not have to work hard at all to make it.

 

[MedPR]

Yeah... I never understood why URMs are not against AA. Their achievements are marginalized because a lot of people believe that they did not have to work hard at all to make it.

Many want it both ways. They want the AA benefit(s), but don't want to be looked at differently for getting it.

This might be a bad example, but I think it's similar to how some women want the man to hold the door and pick up the check, but then don't want to have to cook or clean.

And just for the record, I hold doors and my gf and I share household responsibilities.

Edit: but for me the urm thing is a big part of why I got in. I also don't care if my classmates think I got in only because of urm though.

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[iave9963]

Many want it both ways. They want the AA benefit(s), but don't want to be looked at differently for getting it.

This might be a bad example, but I think it's similar to how some women want the man to hold the door and pick up the check, but then don't want to have to cook or clean.

And just for the record, I hold doors and my gf and I share household responsibilities.

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