Why is getting into med school such a crap shoot?

[NonTradMed]

The crapshot aspect as to do with the multitude of factors: interview, ECs, recommendations.

The thing is, GPA/MCAT is the first step to getting your foot in the door. After that, different schools stress different aspects of the application. As an applicant, we don't have much the inside on what exactly school A is looking for other than the GPA/MCAT score. So even though we may see a school filled with students with MCAT and GPA close to your own, they may also have volunteered in a third world country while you have not---therefore, you will most likely not get into the school. But this community service focus may not be known to most people applying to that school so people chalk up their rejection to the process being a 'crapshot'.

There is a method to the madness, it's just not a uniform method, and there are many defining factors to that madness, few of which we, the applicants, are privy to. That's what makes the process seem random, but med schools aren't just grabbing names out of a hat.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[etf]

this whole process has felt like someone is shooting me in the crapper

 

[Law2Doc]

There is a method to the madness, it's just not a uniform method, and there are many defining factors to that madness, few of which we, the applicants, are privy to. That's what makes the process random, but med schools aren't just grabbing names out of a hat.

Your last sentence is contradictory. Random would imply that they are just grabbing names out of a hat (eg. random number generator). The process is neither random nor a crap shoot, just obscured.

 

[silas2642]

Along with those who are bullsh**ing the interviewer, there are those who are just weird. (I asked an applicant to reflect on a memorable patient in the ER where he'd volunteered and he told me about the patient who was arrested in the ER for drunk driving and how bad that it and the legal penalties that go along with drunk driving and how a person who does that should be severely punished, etc -- I thought that was a weird response to a question about a patient interaction that he found memorable -- did he think he was interviewing for a spot at the police academy?).

There are also those who seem clueless about medical school and what is required. Case in point: the applicant who had a marginal MCAT, retook & did no better. How had she prepared the second time? The answer was astounding and didn't seem to indicate that she knew how to study/prepare for a big exam. manage her time, or prioritize among EC activities.

Yeah, and I'm assuming that you guys are pretty smart and are able to spot us when we're trying to bs our way into your medical schools. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Have you guys read the "Ah yes, medical school" blog by a third year UCLA student who also served for a year on the admissions committee? He wrote this hysterical piece about how people with stellar stats think that those somehow supercede being an interesting, well rounded person.


"OK, so now lets assume you've actually taken all/some of the requirements needed for matriculation. The next step is the dreaded MCAT. In retrospect, I regret having expended as much energy as I did on this exam, because what I learned from my time on the admissions committee is that your score on this exam doesn't really mean ****. Well, you have to do at least marginally well to make the initial screening process, but not getting that 45-T on the exam will not make any difference whatsoever in your final results as an applicant. Actually, I tended to be harsher on the applicants that got these astronomical scores because it was more often an indicator of how big a freak and how socially ******ed these people were than how smart or well-qualified they were for medical school...and if I learned anything over the first two years of medical school (and from what I'm gathering, I didn't learn much), it's that the last thing this profession needs is another socially ******ed freak...


Three, the most important point (see, it gets its own paragraph!), be genuine at every step of your application (and through this whole process, actually), especially when you show up for your interview. I cannot say how much it annoyed me to see an applicant try to bull**** me (the king of bull****ting, no less) about their activities, experiences, or desire to be a doctor ("I knew from the moment I was born that I was destined to become a radiation oncologist." Prick.), making up answers over and over again in a feeble attempt to impress me, when I would have been a lot more impressed if they'd just told the truth. This means majoring in a Biology because you actually like biology, and having a damn good explanation for why you majored in Economics but are still pre-med (hint: that explanation better not be "I wanted to look unique on my application"). This means proving in some way that you only worked on activities or research you were genuinely interested in pursuing, and not because you wanted to fill another box on the application (yes, we can tell). Looking back on my experiences as an interviewee, I think that's why I did so well. I'm currently completely confused and lost, trying to find my place in this chaos of medicine, but I still cling to what I talked about in my interviews regarding why I wanted to be a doctor in the first place, I am still involved in those activities that got me down this path, and I know that there was not one ounce of bull****, regular ****, or any other ****-like material in my answers I gave on my application or to my interviewers. I was being genuine about who I was, and that was conveyed to my interviewers."

There, spoken by a former member of an admissions committee of a top 20 school, who was also accepted to Harvard med school, and who is also a genius (in my opinion. I guess my standards are pretty low)

 

[Pkboi24]

I saw an adcomm in the park today, him and another adcomm were fighting for a nut. I asked them how they pick people for med schools. They looked at me for a sec, and then the smaller one proceeded to fornicate with the bigger one while he was working on the nut.

 

[Law2Doc]

I saw an adcomm in the park today, him and another adcomm were fighting for a nut. I asked them how they pick people for med schools. They looked at me for a sec, and then the smaller one proceeded to fornicate with the bigger one while he was working on the nut.

Too bad you didn't have a camera -- blackmail works wonders in the admissions process.

 

[NonTradMed]

Your last sentence is contradictory. Random would imply that they are just grabbing names out of a hat (eg. random number generator). The process is neither random nor a crap shoot, just obscured.

Sorry, I mistyped.

I was suppose to say "That's what makes the process seem random, but med schools aren't just grabbing names out of a hat.

I'm going to go now and correct it.

 

[Will Ferrell]

The crapshot aspect as to do with the multitude of factors: interview, ECs, recommendations.

The thing is, GPA/MCAT is the first step to getting your foot in the door. After that, different schools stress different aspects of the application. As an applicant, we don't have much the inside on what exactly school A is looking for other than the GPA/MCAT score. So even though we may see a school filled with students with MCAT and GPA close to your own, they may also have volunteered in a third world country while you have not---therefore, you will most likely not get into the school. But this community service focus may not be known to most people applying to that school so people chalk up their rejection to the process being a 'crapshot'.

There is a method to the madness, it's just not a uniform method, and there are many defining factors to that madness, few of which we, the applicants, are privy to. That's what makes the process random, but med schools aren't just grabbing names out of a hat.

 

[dbhvt]

If someone is against URM quotas, it does not make them a racist. There are black people also against such quotas. This is just a liberal lie that was spread to prevent discent. I have lots of URM friends and love all people . This whole black/white thing is part of American culture but in my culture (Judaism) there is no such distinction among races.

Yanky,

I appollogize for calling you a racist. The communication medium here can invite polemics and bullying. I need to work on not accepting that invitation.

dbhvt

 

[EndSong]

Its kind of hard to say why you were rejected. Honestly it wasn't your grades or MCAT. No one looks at your record and thinks that you might not be smart enough for med school. But smart enough does not mean qualified. A top schools wants to find the truly worthy from the merely qualified. Its probably everything else in your package. If you'd like I can read over your Personal Statement and see if I can tell anything from that.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

There are interviews.

This is it, to me.

I know plenty of people who have high numbers that I would never see as a doctor nor would I recommend them to someone I know.

It's simple.
They don't understand people and they don't care about people. Sure, they go to interviews and say, "Oh man, I have such a burning desire to be a doctor because I see people who I want to help so bad" but then they come back and laugh at the mentally-disabled student who has trouble opening a door.

But that may not be your particular situation; I'm just speaking about one particular group of people.

 

[Will Ferrell]

"Actually, I tended to be harsher on the applicants that got these astronomical scores because it was more often an indicator of how big a freak and how socially ******ed these people were than how smart or well-qualified they were for medical school...and if I learned anything over the first two years of medical school (and from what I'm gathering, I didn't learn much), it's that the last thing this profession needs is another socially ******ed freak..."

whoa, he's so kewl. I'm sure he kept it real during his interviews.

It's difficult to get far in this process without presenting yourself in the best light. Isn't doing so "bullsh*tting"? Is it possible to get far by being 100%, Sodium Pentothal honest?

 

[LizzyM]

"...and if I learned anything over the first two years of medical school (and from what I'm gathering, I didn't learn much), it's that the last thing this profession needs is another socially ******ed freak..."

The funniest thing I've read this month!

 

[silas2642]

The funniest thing I've read this month!

And yet so true. Gotta read this kid's blog at:

http://ahyesmedschool.blogspot.com/2005/08/ask-fake-doctor.html

 

[Pkboi24]

whoa, he's so kewl. I'm sure he kept it real during his interviews.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he straight up told them "Stop bull****ting me. You have no chance here."

 

[Dmizrahi]

I find this hard to believe. NO professors wanted an undergrad? How many did you honestly ask? Did you ask random professors, or did you ask professors that you had in a course? and did they even know who you were? I'm wrapping up an independent study in a lab with a professor I had last fall. He knew who I was, since I had talked to him a few times, and I'd done pretty well in his class. It wasn't hard at all. The other lab I joined was a fairly open solicitation for undergrads (almost the whole lab is undergrad students).

Methinks that you DID have time, and there WERE professors who would've taken you in, but you didn't look hard enough or manage your time well enough.

About ten different professors, half of which i had classes with and received A's in their class. Most knew who i was...just didn't want someone without experience in their lab (which makes sense) and unfortunately i have to work all summer, so a summer research position isn't feasible. I asked as many random professors as professors i interacted with. I agree that i probably could have managed my time better, but the question still remains is it feasible to get into a research med school with no research experience?

 

[Dmizrahi]

If nontrad's evaluation is right then applying and being accepted to medical school is a very biased process, because unfortunately i don't come from a priveleged portion of society and i've had to work since i was 12 and earn everything i own...i don't always have the time or money to do certain activites like volunteering in third world countries...so am i supposed to communicate that to med schools or is that going to be seen as an excuse or cry?

 

[Law2Doc]

but the question still remains is it feasible to get into a research med school with no research experience?

The answer is yes, but you often need some other strong "hook" on which to hang your hat. It's a subjective sliding scale, and so if you lack one thing that such schools like to see, you have to have more of another thing. But the short answer is that I have known folks with no research experience who got into top schools known to be research power-houses.

 

[Law2Doc]

If nontrad's evaluation is right then applying and being accepted to medical school is a very biased process, because unfortunately i don't come from a priveleged portion of society and i've had to work since i was 12 and earn everything i own...i don't always have the time or money to do certain activites like volunteering in third world countries...so am i supposed to communicate that to med schools or is that going to be seen as an excuse or cry?

Not having had a privileged background won't keep you out of med school. Having worked since age 12 will be considered a positive -- gets you points in terms of maturity, and you can probably find a way to work that into your app.

 

[Dmizrahi]

Not having had a privileged background won't keep you out of med school. Having worked since age 12 will be considered a positive -- gets you points in terms of maturity, and you can probably find a way to work that into your app.

Thanks Law2Doc that pretty much made my day, now i can keep my head up and stay focused...because i want to go to a research school, although i haven't done any research, but got offered a position in a lab for next fall which i plan on taking.

 

[Jacks Mannequin]

This is exactly what I was thinking when I was browsing mdapplicants.com. The acceptances and rejections seem so random. And, after seeing some of the profiles on there, I feel like I've wasted so much time my two years in college.

 

[Dmizrahi]

This is exactly what I was thinking when I was browsing mdapplicants.com. The acceptances and rejections seem so random. And, after seeing some of the profiles on there, I feel like I've wasted so much time my two years in college.

Its ok Jacks were all in this together...keep you're head up and appreciate the work you've done thus far...and don't quit...we will be accepted somewhere...which is funny because i took the april mcat and i don't really care about what i got now

 

[Jacks Mannequin]

Its ok Jacks were all in this together...keep you're head up and appreciate the work you've done thus far...and don't quit...we will be accepted somewhere...which is funny because i took the april mcat and i don't really care about what i got now

Thanks, man. Hopefully, we'll all get in somewhere... I guess the trick is apply to a billion places.

I'm taking the MCAT in August. Got any studying advice? I'm taking the Kaplan course.

 

[Dmizrahi]

Thanks, man. Hopefully, we'll all get in somewhere... I guess the trick is apply to a billion places.

I'm taking the MCAT in August. Got any studying advice? I'm taking the Kaplan course.

I took the kaplan course as well, as it is very helpful and scares the **** out of you. I would study well in advance, i studied about 3 hours a day 5 days a week for 12 weeks or so...I did EVERYTHING kaplan offered. My big qualm with kaplan's practice test are that they substituted length for difficulty on their practice tests, so while the tests were much longer than the actual the actual mcat was trickier...i wish they would teach me to deal with trickery rather than length, but i guess i understand their approach.

 

[NonTradMed]

If nontrad's evaluation is right then applying and being accepted to medical school is a very biased process, because unfortunately i don't come from a priveleged portion of society and i've had to work since i was 12 and earn everything i own...i don't always have the time or money to do certain activites like volunteering in third world countries...so am i supposed to communicate that to med schools or is that going to be seen as an excuse or cry?

I do believe the process is biased in that there's no guarantee you will get into a specific med school. However, overall, because the general requirement of med schools are the same (good MCAT, good GPA, some ECs), as long as you have all your ducks lined up and you don't have a major mark against you, you WILL get in somewhere.

There's no need to apologize for not being extraordinary, extraordinary people will get into multiple top med schools, us mortals may need to settle for one, two or three, probably unranked med schools.

 

[45408]

About ten different professors, half of which i had classes with and received A's in their class. Most knew who i was...just didn't want someone without experience in their lab (which makes sense) and unfortunately i have to work all summer, so a summer research position isn't feasible. I asked as many random professors as professors i interacted with. I agree that i probably could have managed my time better, but the question still remains is it feasible to get into a research med school with no research experience?

Sure, but only about 5-10% of the incoming class at most research schools stated that they didn't perform any research, but odds are sorta high that they had some kind of community/public health volunteering and/or extensive clinical experience to supplement that shortcoming.