Why is it so bad to be a reapplicant?

[PeculiarPanda]

Just trying to get an idea as to why there is so much negative stigma against reapplicants. Every post I've read has said something along the lines of "Either have a PERFECT amcas or wait till next cycle".

I'm constrained for time so obviously I cant dedicate 100% of my time into my AMCAS. But with my experiences and grades + MCAT shouldnt a decent amount of effort be enough. I mean the PS is the only thing really that requires a lot of effort right?

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[gyngyn]

Schools that have the luxury of many fine applicants can choose not to interview those who have been pre-screened by a previous cycle.

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

"Decent" effort never made a great doctor. How bad do you want to be a doctor if all you're doing is giving "decent" effort on what could arguably be the most important application of your life?

 

[LizzyM]

When we see a reapplicant we look for what might have been a deficit in the previous cycle and how that has been rectified. If we see an applicant without any deficits, particularly if the applicant has an exceptional GPA and MCAT, the adcom wonders what was wrong with this applicant that the applicant wasn't snapped up the previous season. Is the applicant arrogant, socially awkward, or poorly prepared for the previous application cycle?

The only time I've seen a reapplicant treated well is when the applicant receives a courtesy interview (often a faculty member's kid), comes across as somewhat immature, and gets a second chance a year (or two) later with the hope that the applicant will be more mature. There've been a few times when that has worked out but keep in mind that the applicant tends to be memorable because we all remember reviewing "Frank's kid's" application.

 

[moggat]

When we see a reapplicant we look for what might have been a deficit in the previous cycle and how that has been rectified. If we see an applicant without any deficits, particularly if the applicant has an exceptional GPA and MCAT, the adcom wonders what was wrong with this applicant that the applicant wasn't snapped up the previous season. Is the applicant arrogant, socially awkward, or poorly prepared for the previous application cycle?

The only time I've seen a reapplicant treated well is when the applicant receives a courtesy interview (often a faculty member's kid), comes across as somewhat immature, and gets a second chance a year (or two) later with the hope that the applicant will be more mature. There've been a few times when that has worked out but keep in mind that the applicant tends to be memorable because we all remember reviewing "Frank's kid's" application.

This ^^. I jumped 10 pts in my MCAT between cycles, so obviously the second one went much better. But at EVERY SINGLE interview, I was asked "why didn't you get in last cycle??", often with quite a bit of suspicion, and I'm positive it was the reason I was screened out so quickly at schools that I was well within the margins for this time around.

 

[Goro]

Even at my DO school, when we see a reapplicant, the first question out of our mouths at interview is "What have you done to improve yourself since the last cycle?"

The answer right there can be enough to accept or reject, and I have seen the latter inflicted with my own eyes.

Not all schools have bases against reapplicants; state MD schools seem to be the most forgiving. But I have seen many SDNers report that simply applying earlier in the cycle (as opposed to late during the first go-around) made the difference. Now, mind you, this was for really good applicants. Others went out and fixed their deficits.

 

[statlin98]

@Goro @gonnif @LizzyM

If applying late in the cycle was maybe the biggest weaknesses for a first application, do adcom's notice that when reviewing a reapplication? And can applying earlier be used as an answer to the "have you improved your app?" question in secondaries/interviews? I imagine it'd be lame if I answered that question with "well, I applied earlier this time."

 

[mellie0]

I mean the PS is the only thing really that requires a lot of effort right?

Oh, my sweet summer child... You're in for a ride.

In all seriousness, though, the answer is no. There's the activities descriptions, your most meaningful activities descriptions, your answers to millions of secondary essays, a lot of attention to detail while listing your courses, and the list continues. Everything requires a lot of effort, or else you'll have a mediocre application.

 

[PeculiarPanda]

Oh, my sweet summer child... You're in for a ride.

In all seriousness, though, the answer is no. There's the activities descriptions, your most meaningful activities descriptions, your answers to millions of secondary essays, a lot of attention to detail while listing your courses, and the list continues. Everything requires a lot of effort, or else you'll have a mediocre application.

Haha excuse me for being so clueless, I've been putting a lot more attention and time and into my Canadian apps considering, well, I am Canadian.

My activities descriptions are all done, I followed guides posted on SDN. Also, listing courses was pretty straight forward. Tedious yes, but it does not require that much effort. I honestly feel as though the PS is the key to the application.

Btw I had a question about secondaries. Are they as time consuming as the PS?

 

[mellie0]

Haha excuse me for being so clueless, I've been putting a lot more attention and time and into my Canadian apps considering, well, I am Canadian.

My activities descriptions are all done, I followed guides posted on SDN. Also, listing courses was pretty straight forward. Tedious yes, but it does not require that much effort. I honestly feel as though the PS is the key to the application.

Btw I had a question about secondaries. Are they as time consuming as the PS?

I have no idea how secondaries in Canada are... but for schools in the US every school has a different secondary and they ask you to write different essays. Some overlap, sure, but others like "why our school?" require a ton of research and a well-thought and well-crafted response. Assuming you get through one secondary a day, it's still A LOT of work.

 

[TSteezy]

First hand experience w/ this one, and it differs vastly from the previous comments. I was poorly prepared my first application cycle and received no IIs. The next year I submitted a similar application (same scores / ECs / 1 or 2 new ECs) with polished essays and received 12 IIs having applied to 17 total. My reapplicant status was literally never addressed on the interview trail.

 

[PeculiarPanda]

First hand experience w/ this one, and it differs vastly from the previous comments. I was poorly prepared my first application cycle and received no IIs. The next year I submitted a similar application (same scores / ECs / 1 or 2 new ECs) with polished essays and received 12 IIs having applied to 17 total. My reapplicant status was literally never addressed on the interview trail.

Interesting. I sort of feel like I'm in your position (the first time around), so that makes me feel better. If I may ask, from what I read in previous posts, people made it seem like schools give secondaries to every applicant (for the $$). How competitive does your app need to be to receive a secondary.

Also if it's not guaranteed, should I work on the secondary before hand even if there's a chance I may not get it?

Thanks

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[NotASerialKiller]

Haha excuse me for being so clueless, I've been putting a lot more attention and time and into my Canadian apps considering, well, I am Canadian.

My activities descriptions are all done, I followed guides posted on SDN. Also, listing courses was pretty straight forward. Tedious yes, but it does not require that much effort. I honestly feel as though the PS is the key to the application.

Btw I had a question about secondaries. Are they as time consuming as the PS?

You know no schools hold being a reapplicant against you in Canada, right? Probably because it takes a huge chunk of people multiple cycles to get in here.

That issue is purely an American thing, they don't believe in second chances there because it's an objectively worse country.

 

[Goro]

@Goro @gonnif @LizzyM

If applying late in the cycle was maybe the biggest weaknesses for a first application, do adcom's notice that when reviewing a reapplication? And can applying earlier be used as an answer to the "have you improved your app?" question in secondaries/interviews? I imagine it'd be lame if I answered that question with "well, I applied earlier this time."

The bolded seems to work for them. But you know, the cycle is a full year, so one should just be sitting around...one should always strive to identify deficits in their app and improve upon it.


For the text in red, Keep in mind that the Admissions dean would see this, but interviewers might (like at my school) and the Adcom wouldn't.

 

[MCATISEZ]

Even at my DO school, when we see a reapplicant, the first question out of our mouths at interview is "What have you done to improve yourself since the last cycle?"

The answer right there can be enough to accept or reject, and I have seen the latter inflicted with my own eyes.

Not all schools have bases against reapplicants; state MD schools seem to be the most forgiving. But I have seen many SDNers report that simply applying earlier in the cycle (as opposed to late during the first go-around) made the difference. Now, mind you, this was for really good applicants. Others went out and fixed their deficits.

What is a good answer?

1. "I decided medicine rather late in the game. Although I was academically strong and confident of my passions and goals towards medicine, I realized I had to spend more time walking the walk"
- high stats applicant that was missing some of the core ECs, but who's current ECs are strong and meaningful.

2. "I made the mistake of applying late in the cycle. I def learned from the mistake, and am more careful. In the last year I have continued the activities that I have been crucial to my decision to pursue medicine, and I believe they have bettered me and made me more passionate about my goals"
-all around good applicant, but applied late

3. "My initial MCAT score surprised me and I knew I could do better, after my retake I know that I am now a more competitive applicant"
-great ECs, but initially lacked the test scores.


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[mwsapphire]

This ^^. I jumped 10 pts in my MCAT between cycles, so obviously the second one went much better. But at EVERY SINGLE interview, I was asked "why didn't you get in last cycle??", often with quite a bit of suspicion, and I'm positive it was the reason I was screened out so quickly at schools that I was well within the margins for this time around.

You jumped 10 points? From what to what ( 500 to 510 is not the same jump as 515 to 525). And didn't you to Hopkins ( therefore a slightly lower MCAT wouldn't be an issue with a good GPA from Hopkins.)
I realize this is off topic but that is interesting.

 

[mellie0]

Also if it's not guaranteed, should I work on the secondary before hand even if there's a chance I may not get it?

You should because most schools don't pre-screen, meaning they'll send a secondary to everyone who sends the primary to their school. Before pre-writing any secondaries, I made sure I went to the website to confirm that they send the secondary to everyone. Most schools do. So it is worth it to start working on the secondaries even if you haven't received them.

 

[Catalystik]

I mean the PS is the only thing really that requires a lot of effort right?

Oh, my sweet summer child... You're in for a ride.

It's like watching a newborn fawn stumble into four lanes of traffic.

 

[PeculiarPanda]

It's like watching a newborn fawn stumble into four lanes of traffic.

Its like your friend starting GOT and picking Ned Stark as their favorite character

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[Skiiiiiing]

Haha excuse me for being so clueless, I've been putting a lot more attention and time and into my Canadian apps considering, well, I am Canadian.

My activities descriptions are all done, I followed guides posted on SDN. Also, listing courses was pretty straight forward. Tedious yes, but it does not require that much effort. I honestly feel as though the PS is the key to the application.

Btw I had a question about secondaries. Are they as time consuming as the PS?

Secondaries are much more time consuming than the PS. Although some things come up a lot, many are unique

 

[Dr. Stalker]

-40% of applicants with 3.8 GPA or higher do not get an acceptance
-60% of applicants with 3.6-3.8 GPA do not get an acceptance
-20% of those with 517 MCAT or higher do not get an acceptance
-just under 50% of matriculants get a single offer of acceptance even applying on average to 15 schools
-at least 80% of all applicants at any single school must be rejected prior to interview

Now lets add being a reapplicant to that and you tell me that being "decent" will be good enough?

How in gods name does someone get a 517+ not get accepted...? too top heavy list or something?

 

[Skiiiiiing]

How in gods name does someone get a 517+ not get accepted...? too top heavy list or something?

Interviews can kill it too

Or bad PS

Or a bad letter

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Interviews can kill it too

Or bad PS

Or a bad letter

I can see a poor interview earning a student a waitlist. A student in myUG lab had a 522 and applied to 20 low, mid, and top tiers. He had 20 interviews, 18 direct rejections with 2 waitlists; 1 low tier just admitted him. I guess his attitude/interview skills took him down. Having interacted with him I realized he's way to nervous/gets flustered very easily. Poor dude practically crippled when I did a mock interview for him!

 

[LizzyM]

Interviews can kill it too

Or bad PS

Or a bad letter

or bad behavior (serious IA or on campus the day of the interview)

 

[Skiiiiiing]

I can see a poor interview earning a student a waitlist. A student in myUG lab had a 522 and applied to 20 low, mid, and top tiers. He had 20 interviews, 18 direct rejections with 2 waitlists; 1 low tier just admitted him. I guess his attitude/interview skills took him down. Having interacted with him I realized he's way to nervous/gets flustered very easily. Poor dude practically crippled when I did a mock interview for him!

Dude you are a MD adcom, you have 100s of highly qualified candidates

If the 518 or even 520 gives off creepy vibes, just admit the 516...

I'm sure simple lack of rapport or gauche social skills are viewed much less seriously.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

The reason being a reapplicant is so bad is students don't ever improve their ****. A student with a 502 and a 3.1 will take a year off to not fix their issues; they'll become an EMT or something and reapply to a poor school list and not get admitted anywhere. Adcoms will say "this dude just did some nonsense and didn't fix the glaring issue in his application."

analogously speaking, students with a 522 and a 4.0 with ZERO healthcare experience will complete a masters of science, get another 4.0, and reapply NOT fixing the issue holding them back.

Because the overwhelming number of students don't fix their errors and reapply, the reapplicant gets a bad name on SDN. There's a few people I know personally that had a poor first time cycle, fixed themselves up either with a retake MCAT, MS, or got some great healthcare experience, reapplied, and were extremely fortunate (4+ MD acceptances and ALL DO school acceptances they applied too)

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Dude you are a MD adcom, you have 100s of highly qualified candidates

If the 518 or even 520 gives off creepy vibes, just admit the 516...

I'm sure simple lack of rapport or gauche social skills are viewed much less seriously.

Lol the guy in my lab is a great guy; I just can't possibly see him interacting with another human being let alone a very sick patient!

 

[Goro]

How in gods name does someone get a 517+ not get accepted...? too top heavy list or something?

I can see a poor interview earning a student a waitlist. A student in my UG lab had a 522 and applied to 20 low, mid, and top tiers. He had 20 interviews, 18 direct rejections with 2 waitlists; 1 low tier just admitted him. I guess his attitude/interview skills took him down. Having interacted with him I realized he's way to nervous/gets flustered very easily. Poor dude practically crippled when I did a mock interview for him!

There have been a number of threads about this subject. For starters, you're looking at a single metric. You can't do that. Suppose the candidate had a poor GPA. Yes, there are high MCAT scorers who are not demigods.

To LizzyM's Tiger's posts, add bad app (full of typos, bad writing, arrogance, entitlement or preference for research over Medicine), and a lack of ECs. I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

I remember two 40+ MCAT/4.0 GPA candidates who I interviewed and rejected outright. One was a robot who never made eye contact, the other was a hyper-achiever who wanted to answer other people’s questions (when asked to them), instead of waiting his turn.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

There have been a number of threads about this subject. For starters, you're looking at a single metric. You can't do that. Suppose the candidate had a poor GPA. Yes, there are high MCAT scorers who are not demigods.

To LizzyM's Tiger's posts, add bad app (full of typos, bad writing, arrogance, entitlement or preference for research over Medicine), and a lack of ECs. I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

I remember two 40+ MCAT/4.0 GPA candidates who I interviewed and rejected outright. One was a robot who never made eye contact, the other was a hyper-achiever who wanted to answer other people’s questions (when asked to them), instead of waiting his turn.

Wait so the interviewing student was gunning the other interviewing kids...? People do that on interview day? Jeez louise...

 

[gyngyn]

How bad? Making a pass at the secretaries? Or perhaps at the reviewer themselves?

I always did have a thing for older women.

Any bad behavior on interview day is significant.
Putting your shoes on the furniture.
Cursing.
Arguing with the parking attendant...

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Wait so the interviewing student was gunning the other interviewing kids...? People do that on interview day? Jeez louise...

That not Gunner that's unmanaged Aspergers. They can make it in academia, but medicine?

 

[LizzyM]

How bad? Making a pass at the secretaries? Or perhaps at the reviewer themselves?

I always did have a thing for older women.

Treating a member of the office staff as your slave or as someone not worthy of your respect. (When shown the coat closet, one applicant removed his coat and handed it to the staff member to hang up.)

Unwanted sexual advances on members of the adcom or the staff would not be well received. Thankfully, I've never heard of such behavior at my school.

 

[Goro]

How bad? Making a pass at the secretaries? Or perhaps at the reviewer themselves?

I always did have a thing for older women.

Yelling at parking attendants
Treating Admissions office staff like servants
Being scary
Putting feet up on the interviewer's desk
Coming to interviews dressed in a whack outfit, like an ice skater or a mariachi (this seem to be a California thing)
Bringing parent to the interview. No, not to the campus or even the Admissions office, but to the interview room itself. THAT doesn't end well.
Chewing gum in the interview
Lighting up a cigarette in the interview
Trash talking the school while on tour

 

[Goro]

That not Gunner that's unmanaged Aspergers.

It was neither. Hyperacheiver. Like Hermione Granger, but perky and on steroids.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Yelling at parking attendants
Treating Admissions office staff like servants
Being scary
Putting feet up on the interviewer's desk
Coming to interviews dressed in a whack outfit, like an ice skater or a mariachi (this seem to be a California thing)
Bringing parent to the interview. No, not to the campus or even the Admissions office, but to the interview room itself. THAT doesn't end well.
Chewing gum in the interview
Lighting up a cigarette in the interview
Trash talking the school while on tour

All of this sounds like that series of scenes from Step Brothers where their dad makes them go on job interviews and they deliberately do things to mess them up.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Any bad behavior on interview day is significant.
Putting your shoes on the furniture.
Cursing.
Arguing with the parking attendant...

Being impatient with the administrative staff....it all gets reported

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I was a reapplicant who applied in consecutive years. For most, that is a terrible strategy and admittedly I took a big risk doing so. Unlike most, I was actively improving my app from the moment I submitted the first time. I added 200 more hours of clinical exposure, 150 hours of community service, 3 additional A's and a co-authorship.

First time I applied, I got 4 interviews, 3 waitlists, 1 Medical DQ (thanks USUHS). I talked to admissions from the 3 in May and each had their own reason, but none said grades or interview. Had any said that, I would have taken a year off. When I reapplied, I cut the "reach" programs and added in 40% new schools. The first 3 all re-interviewed me as well as 3 new ones. All this is to say that if you re-apply you need to be a new applicant. You can't lather, rinse, repeat. You have to lather, rinse, dye, cut, and throw in some aqua net. You're not only being compared to your prior self but also being compared to a whole new batch of applicants.

 

[MCATISEZ]

How in gods name does someone get a 517+ not get accepted...? too top heavy list or something?

I really think a good portion of those have too heavy lists, some probably have low gpas, other probably have non existent ECs. But those with high stats tend to be high achievers, and many wouldn't settle on less than a top 20.


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[statlin98]

Yelling at parking attendants
Treating Admissions office staff like servants
Being scary
Putting feet up on the interviewer's desk
Coming to interviews dressed in a whack outfit, like an ice skater or a mariachi (this seem to be a California thing)
Bringing parent to the interview. No, not to the campus or even the Admissions office, but to the interview room itself. THAT doesn't end well.
Chewing gum in the interview
Lighting up a cigarette in the interview
Trash talking the school while on tour

I wonder how often things like this happen...it boggles my mind that people can have this little regard for common sense and normal behavior in one of the most important moments of their life.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

I wonder how often things like this happen...it boggles my mind that people can have this little regard for common sense and normal behavior in one of the most important moments of their life.

I read a story on SDN a couple of years back where a young man who was interviewing arrived early and checked in with the secretary. He then went to the rest room, and while at the urinal, was yapping away many unprofessional comments about the young attractive woman who happened to be the secretary - comments that are borderline rape-y if you ask me (OP claimed that the interviewing student said he "dominated" her with his "power glance" and she looked like she needed a man to discipline her). He said all this outloud on the phone while pissing and the other man at the urinal was a physician and soon to be his interviewer lmao. So yeah, be on your best behavior the second your within 5 miles of any medical school campus!

 

[mwsapphire]

I believe that about 12% with 3.8GPA or higher AND 517 MCAT or higher do not gain an acceptance

That's where EC"s come in~ And personality! And other magical holistic stuff :3 It makes me feel like if your intentions are pure you'll get in somewhere.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Yelling at parking attendants
Treating Admissions office staff like servants
Being scary
Putting feet up on the interviewer's desk
Coming to interviews dressed in a whack outfit, like an ice skater or a mariachi (this seem to be a California thing)
Bringing parent to the interview. No, not to the campus or even the Admissions office, but to the interview room itself. THAT doesn't end well.
Chewing gum in the interview
Lighting up a cigarette in the interview
Trash talking the school while on tour

I laughed so hard reading this, but I also remember someone mentioning inappropriate photos submitted...in swimsuits, in costumes, or holding red cups.

 

[Goro]

I have heard these kinds of stories directly from admissions deans, directors, and staff and they true.

BTW, perhaps the other adcoms can comment, but virtually every group of interviewees always includes a "loud mouth" and a "mumbler"

These phenotypes have been rare at my school, but they have been spotted. The latter tend to look down at the ground a lot, and never make eye contact, even when speaking to you. The former tend to dominate conversations, and occasionally roll their eyes or smirk when other people give their answers. This gets spotted immediately.

 

[Gauss44]

December 2014 MCAT

FYI - A bunch of schools thought they would take a December 2104 MCAT score this cycle and then changed their minds within the past year. That means if you did your homework and are applying this cycle with a December 2014 score, you cannot apply as broadly as previously indicated by emails and phone calls to admissions offices.

 

[Bobcat77]

I spoke with an admissions director recently and she said their admissions committee actually favors/roots for the reapplicants because it shows that they're dedicated to a career in medicine. However, the problem is that a lot of reapplicants are so eager to get in that they reapply with essentially the same application. She said that most need to take a year to fix their problems before applying. So I would say if you make a concerted effort to shore up your shortcomings, then being a reapplicant is actually an advantage. Of course, I would recommend trying to get as much feedback as possible from schools you applied to so that when you apply in the future you have an answer when they ask, "Why do you think you didn't get in before?"

 

[Lawpy]

Just trying to get an idea as to why there is so much negative stigma against reapplicants. Every post I've read has said something along the lines of "Either have a PERFECT amcas or wait till next cycle".

I'm constrained for time so obviously I cant dedicate 100% of my time into my AMCAS. But with my experiences and grades + MCAT shouldnt a decent amount of effort be enough. I mean the PS is the only thing really that requires a lot of effort right?

A single application cycle is a long, exhausting, stressful, emotional, and expensive process. You do not want to subject yourself to this ordeal more than once. Apply with the best possible application the first time and succeed. Do it once and do it right.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

That's where EC"s come in~ And personality! And other magical holistic stuff :3 It makes me feel like if your intentions are pure you'll get in somewhere.

The bulk of those 12% have all the ECs, they're just insane interviewers and have no business in the field of medicine. I'd say the minority have next to no ECs and thus fail to get admitted. IDK why medical schools even interview those students.

 

[lpp06]

The bulk of those 12% have all the ECs, they're just insane interviewers and have no business in the field of medicine. I'd say the minority have next to no ECs and thus fail to get admitted. IDK why medical schools even interview those students.

I'm always flabbergasted by the fact that such smart people can be such poor interviewers. I understand if you're typically a weird dude/dudette, but if you're that intelligent I would think you could learn how to fake it for the 6 hour day that is so important.

Then again, I'm glad they don't and get weeded out.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

I'm always flabbergasted by the fact that such smart people can be such poor interviewers. I understand if you're typically a weird dude/dudette, but if you're that intelligent I would think you could learn how to fake it for the 6 hour day that is so important.

Then again, I'm glad they don't and get weeded out.

After my experience with the gentleman in my lab, I realized just how bad some students are with interviews lol

 

[CyrilFiggis]

The bulk of those 12% have all the ECs, they're just insane interviewers and have no business in the field of medicine. I'd say the minority have next to no ECs and thus fail to get admitted. IDK why medical schools even interview those students.

ECs ≠ a life

It's telling when you see programs that ask about interest outside of medicine or what you would do if you don't get into medical school. There are lots of automatons out there.