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Why is physics a requirement?

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numbersloth

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This post may be controversial, but I'm hoping someone with knowledge of the medical school inner world can answer.

Why are two semesters of physics required? I feel like anything medically relevant in physics can be learned on the fly in medical school and undergraduates would be better suited to have required classes in Genetics and Microbiology, let alone nutrition or a relevant language such as Spanish or Chinese. Some DO schools, such as MSU, don't even require it, yet AFAIK all MD schools do. What gives?
 

Chromium Surfer

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I think its not so much the content is gained from the class as opposed to the skills developed from being in the class. Having to take a difficult course with concepts some people may deem to be abstract challenges you as a student to be able to understand an integrate information that is not easily understandable on first pass. Also the work ethic to get through physics, organizational skills utilized when studying and making a plan of action , and the communication skills utilized when talking with your professor or other peers about physics are all skills you will use as a doctor. So essentially it's more about the intangible and the journey rather than the "end destination" of physics knowledge you will not use. Of course I'm just a pre-med, so what do I really know.

At the end of the day you can always blame Abraham Flexnor, the creator of the Flexnor report that transformed pre-medical education.
 
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numbersloth

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Having to take a difficult course with concepts some people may deem to be abstract challenges you as a student to be able to understand an integrate information that is not easily understandable on first pass. Also the work ethic to get through physics, organizational skills utilized when studying and making a plan of action , and the communication skills utilized when talking with your professor or other peers about physics are all skills you will use as a doctor.

The problem I have with these kinds of explanations is that this applies to SO MANY different kinds of classes. If this were the true goal of pre-medical education, then philosophy and computer science should also be included. And why not Real Analysis or Abstract Algebra while we're at it? It just seems to me like OChem already serves the function of weeding out students who aren't willing to develop a work ethic and strive to understand abstract concepts.
 

Mad Jack

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You think physics doesn't matter, until you're dealing with experimental models on Step 1 that involve voltage gradients and stuff and it's like, fml, just kill me now.

Really though, hemodynamics and pretty much everything to do with the cardiopulmonary system is applied physics. The people that don't understand physics are the ones that suck at physiology, because a lot of physio is really just physics applied to a biological system when you get right down to it. If you understand physics, physio is a walk in the park. If you don't understand it, physio is a struggle. Plus physics is very much at the root of many biological processes- the production of ATP is essentially just the harvesting of potential energy that is established via gradients, it's really kind of amazing. Anyone can memorize facts and figures, but the science of medicine very much requires one to truly understand the things that they are dealing with. It's very much what Step 1 is about, and Step 1 is very basic science-ey at the end of the day. Sure, you could memorize that X and Y happen within the systemic vasculature when A or B change occurs, but if you understand the physics behind what is going on, you don't even need to memorize anything, you simply understand.
 
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numbersloth

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You think physics doesn't matter, until you're dealing with experimental models on Step 1 that involve voltage gradients and stuff and it's like, fml, just kill me now.

Really though, hemodynamics and pretty much everything to do with the cardiopulmonary system is applied physics. The people that don't understand physics are the ones that suck at physiology, because a lot of physio is really just physics applied to a biological system when you get right down to it. If you understand physics, physio is a walk in the park. If you don't understand it, physio is a struggle. Plus physics is very much at the root of many biological processes- the production of ATP is essentially just the harvesting of potential energy that is established via gradients, it's really kind of amazing. Anyone can memorize facts and figures, but the science of medicine very much requires one to truly understand the things that they are dealing with. It's very much what Step 1 is about, and Step 1 is very basic science-ey at the end of the day. Sure, you could memorize that X and Y happen within the systemic vasculature when A or B change occurs, but if you understand the physics behind what is going on, you don't even need to memorize anything, you simply understand.

Thank you. This is exactly the answer I was looking for.
 
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Mad Jack

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Another good example is resistance- resistance in the vasculature and airways of the body uses the exact same equations as resistance in electrical circuits. So parallel resistance works different than resistance in series and so forth, and you can calculate the resistance of a system knowing only the resistance of its parts, etc.
 
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WedgeDawg

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You need to understand fluid dynamics for cardiology and nephrology, ohm's law and its derivatives for cardiology and neurology, resistance and circuits for cardiology and nephrology, volume and pressure for pulmonology, the list goes on and on.

As Mad Jack said, its easier to learn something if you understand the concepts (in these cases, physics) behind it, and it's also easier to then adapt that understanding to a novel situation.
 
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MareNostrummm

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You think physics doesn't matter, until you're dealing with experimental models on Step 1 that involve voltage gradients and stuff and it's like, fml, just kill me now.

Really though, hemodynamics and pretty much everything to do with the cardiopulmonary system is applied physics. The people that don't understand physics are the ones that suck at physiology, because a lot of physio is really just physics applied to a biological system when you get right down to it. If you understand physics, physio is a walk in the park. If you don't understand it, physio is a struggle. Plus physics is very much at the root of many biological processes- the production of ATP is essentially just the harvesting of potential energy that is established via gradients, it's really kind of amazing. Anyone can memorize facts and figures, but the science of medicine very much requires one to truly understand the things that they are dealing with. It's very much what Step 1 is about, and Step 1 is very basic science-ey at the end of the day. Sure, you could memorize that X and Y happen within the systemic vasculature when A or B change occurs, but if you understand the physics behind what is going on, you don't even need to memorize anything, you simply understand.

Well said!
 
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JustAPhD

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Completely agree with the above. You have to remember that life is governed to a large extent by physics; it's helpful to know the basics.
 
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ahc336

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Dumb kids can't pass physics, medical schools want smart kids

/thread
 
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Lawpy

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    This post may be controversial, but I'm hoping someone with knowledge of the medical school inner world can answer.

    Why are two semesters of physics required? I feel like anything medically relevant in physics can be learned on the fly in medical school and undergraduates would be better suited to have required classes in Genetics and Microbiology, let alone nutrition or a relevant language such as Spanish or Chinese. Some DO schools, such as MSU, don't even require it, yet AFAIK all MD schools do. What gives?

    Physics is a requirement because medical schools want to make sure you know that the human body = physical system. Unfortunately, algebra-based physics spectacularly fails to present that adequately. Why? Because the human body is a very complex system that requires calculus-based physics to fully understand what's going on.

    However, algebra-based physics is decent for basic conceptual understanding (especially in regards to proportional relationships).

    You think physics doesn't matter, until you're dealing with experimental models on Step 1 that involve voltage gradients and stuff and it's like, fml, just kill me now.

    Really though, hemodynamics and pretty much everything to do with the cardiopulmonary system is applied physics. The people that don't understand physics are the ones that suck at physiology, because a lot of physio is really just physics applied to a biological system when you get right down to it. If you understand physics, physio is a walk in the park. If you don't understand it, physio is a struggle. Plus physics is very much at the root of many biological processes- the production of ATP is essentially just the harvesting of potential energy that is established via gradients, it's really kind of amazing. Anyone can memorize facts and figures, but the science of medicine very much requires one to truly understand the things that they are dealing with. It's very much what Step 1 is about, and Step 1 is very basic science-ey at the end of the day. Sure, you could memorize that X and Y happen within the systemic vasculature when A or B change occurs, but if you understand the physics behind what is going on, you don't even need to memorize anything, you simply understand.
    You need to understand fluid dynamics for cardiology and nephrology, ohm's law and its derivatives for cardiology and neurology, resistance and circuits for cardiology and nephrology, volume and pressure for pulmonology, the list goes on and on.

    As Mad Jack said, its easier to learn something if you understand the concepts (in these cases, physics) behind it, and it's also easier to then adapt that understanding to a novel situation.

    Fluid dynamics isn't easy though, which is why I'm sure medical schools drastically simplify physical principles to have a conceptual understanding of systems physiology. The Young-Laplace equation that is used for measuring alveolar surface tension is reduced in terms of proportion, when in actuality, the equation is complex. Same goes with Poiseuille's Law and stuff dealing with Reynolds number for measuring laminar/turbulent flow in vessels.
     
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    Mad Jack

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    Physics is a requirement because medical schools want to make sure you know that the human body = physical system. Unfortunately, algebra-based physics spectacularly fails to present that adequately. Why? Because the human body is a very complex system that requires calculus-based physics to fully understand what's going on.




    Fluid dynamics isn't easy though, which is why I'm sure medical schools drastically simplify physical principles to have a conceptual understanding of systems physiology. The Young-Laplace equation that is used for measuring alveolar surface tension is reduced in terms of proportion, when in actuality, the equation is complex. Same goes with Poiseuille's Law and stuff dealing with Reynolds number for measuring laminar/turbulent flow in vessels.
    I only utilize algebra-based physics equations and they're fine for everything I've had to deal with. It's weird though, the equations aren't really what it's about- I just kind of visualize the whole system in my head, changing pieces of it and seeing the results. The equations helped me understand how to visualize things, but they aren't really necessary when trying to conceptualize in my mind once a concept is understood. I've used calculus exactly zero times ever in medical school, but algebra and algebraic physics equations have come in quite handy here and there when you need numbers and not just a conceptual understanding. You only get a basic calculator on the Steps, so keeping your math pretty barebones is essential.
     
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    Goro

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    Ask Abraham Flexner. Personally, I don't think that it should be a pre-req anymore. Cell Bio/Biochem/Molecular Bio/Genetics...those should be!



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexner_Report

    This post may be controversial, but I'm hoping someone with knowledge of the medical school inner world can answer.

    Why are two semesters of physics required? I feel like anything medically relevant in physics can be learned on the fly in medical school and undergraduates would be better suited to have required classes in Genetics and Microbiology, let alone nutrition or a relevant language such as Spanish or Chinese. Some DO schools, such as MSU, don't even require it, yet AFAIK all MD schools do. What gives?
     

    Mad Jack

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    Ask Abraham Flexner. Personally, I don't think that it should be a pre-req anymore. Cell Bio/Biochem/Molecular Bio/Genetics...those should be!



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexner_Report
    I disagree, but I'm quite biased- in the ICU, an understanding of physics is highly beneficial for understanding mechanical ventilation. Gas laws from physics and chemistry, along with principles of diffusion, are critical for anyone interested in anesthesia or critical care. Hell, two semesters of my respiratory education back in the day was nothing but applied physics, because that's literally the foundation of mechanical ventilation- it's all tubes, pressurized with gas, within which you've got to account for resistance, concentration gradients, turbulence, etc.

    People not understanding physics is how I ended up with a resident at a very highly regarded IM program insisting a person could splint enough with their musculature on one side to only inhale into one lung if they were in pain. When I looked at them like they were a ****ing ****** and told them, "oh, that's wonderful news to me. Could you demonstrate?" And they tried with all their might before looking like an idiot and being like, "oh..." because that's just not how an interconnected negative pressure system works. That patient, for the record, had blown a pneumothorax (the physiology of which is also entirely physics-based!) and I was having my time being wasted by some kid that wouldn't order me a CXR because they straight up didn't understand applied physics and were passing this patient's presentation of an 83% sat and unilateral chest rise with absent breath sounds on one side as caused by pain or bronchospasm.

    Physics matters. Chemistry matters. Half-assing then can get people killed, particularly in the ICU and anesthesia.
     
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    doctorleospaceman

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    Biology is chemistry, chemistry is physics...if you go farther then physics is math. The more solid the foundation the easier it is to build on it.
     
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    Lawpy

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    I only utilize algebra-based physics equations and they're fine for everything I've had to deal with. It's weird though, the equations aren't really what it's about- I just kind of visualize the whole system in my head, changing pieces of it and seeing the results. The equations helped me understand how to visualize things, but they aren't really necessary when trying to conceptualize in my mind once a concept is understood. I've used calculus exactly zero times ever in medical school, but algebra and algebraic physics equations have come in quite handy here and there when you need numbers and not just a conceptual understanding. You only get a basic calculator on the Steps, so keeping your math pretty barebones is essential.

    Yeah exactly. Really the only point of physics is to have a conceptual understanding of systems physiology. The actual physics used is limiting (and limited) but it's sufficient for a doctor's interest. An engineer/physicist in medicine is a different story altogether.
     
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    It's pretty important that you learn the thinking processes involved with physics.

    Knowing that velocity decreases as area increases is important for blood flow problem solving.

    You don't really "memorize and look it up". IRL there is not a formula sheet. There is not appropriate approximations. You have to know how to 1) know what you are looking for and 2) be able to solve the problem. This requires the skills that physics teaches you.

    I am pretty strongly for making premeds take calculus. Algebra physics doesn't do a great job of making you learn the actual thought process behind physical phenomena.
     

    Mad Jack

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    Yeah exactly. Really the only point of physics is to have a conceptual understanding of systems physiology. The actual physics used is limiting (and limited) but it's sufficient for a doctor's interest. An engineer/physicist in medicine is a different story altogether.
    Yeah, if you want to be making devices or doing calculations in rad-onc, you're much better served by utilizing calculus.
     

    Lawpy

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    I am pretty strongly for making premeds take calculus. Algebra physics doesn't do a great job of making you learn the actual thought process behind physical phenomena.

    I have a simple and effective proposition. Just stop making calculus a requirement and stick with stats. Algebra-based physics is okay for basic conceptual understanding. Calculus is overkill. Stats however is absolutely important and I would strongly recommend taking it.
     
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    AirplaneFruit

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    Honestly, if Physics is so important for understanding concepts in medicine, then Calc-based Physics should be required.

    Algebra-physics is BS compared to calc physics
     
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    Mad Jack

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    I have a simple and effective proposition. Just stop making calculus a requirement and stick with stats. Algebra-based physics is okay for basic conceptual understanding. Calculus is overkill. Stats however is absolutely important and I would strongly recommend taking it.
    I took stats with an old school professor that refused to allow us to use anything other than a basic scientific calculator for the class. I hated it at the time, but the skills I learned have been invaluable.
     
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    Mad Jack

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    Honestly, if Physics is so important for understanding concepts in medicine, then Calc-based Physics should be required.

    Algebra-physics is BS compared to calc physics
    You don't need to be *that good* at physics. You just need to understand the basic concepts well, which really doesn't require calculus, honestly. Again, it isn't about the math so much as what the math is telling you, and in that regard, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
     
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    AirplaneFruit

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    You don't need to be *that good* at physics. You just need to understand the basic concepts well, which really doesn't require calculus, honestly. Again, it isn't about the math so much as what the math is telling you, and in that regard, there is more than one way to skin a cat.


    I'm pretty sure understanding concepts in physics does require calculus, especially since many of the equations used are derived with it. How can you fully understand an equation if you can't understand its derivation
     
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    Mad Jack

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    I'm pretty sure understanding concepts in physics does require calculus, especially since many of the equations used are derived with it. How can you fully understand an equation if you can't understand its derivation
    You don't need to understand the equation. You need to understand the general idea of cause and effect. Numbers aren't important, so long as you use numbers that get you going in the right general direction so that you know what that direction is. The most critical parts of physics in regard to medicine are easily expressed algebraically, and most of the equations you will utilize on Step 1 in regard to physics are algebraic.
     
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    I have a simple and effective proposition. Just stop making calculus a requirement and stick with stats. Algebra-based physics is okay for basic conceptual understanding. Calculus is overkill. Stats however is absolutely important and I would strongly recommend taking it.
    TBH, it is honestly fairly easy. Both stats and calc should be required.

    The concepts you learn in algebra physics are literally calculus. I agree that anything above single variable is overkill...but not a term of beginning calc.

    Stats is probably one of the most useful all-around math classes you will ever use.
     
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    You don't need to understand the equation. You need to understand the general idea of cause and effect. Numbers aren't important, so long as you use numbers that get you going in the right general direction so that you know what that direction is. The most critical parts of physics in regard to medicine are easily expressed algebraically, and most of the equations you will utilize on Step 1 in regard to physics are algebraic.
    This exact agrument for why I think calc should be in the physics classes.

    Algebraic physics literally is just number plugging and chugging at my university. Calc physics asks you to know how to apply the concepts...

    Might be dependent on the university.
     

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    I took stats with an old school professor that refused to allow us to use anything other than a basic scientific calculator for the class. I hated it at the time, but the skills I learned have been invaluable.
    Same happened to me
     
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    Lawpy

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    TBH, it is honestly fairly easy. Both stats and calc should be required.

    The concepts you learn in algebra physics are literally calculus. I agree that anything above single variable is overkill...but not a term of beginning calc.

    Stats is probably one of the most useful all-around math classes you will ever use.

    Algebra-based physics is just conceptual. The course uses equations derived from calculus (which looks like memorizing tbh which is why i don't like it), and uses a lot of proportional relationships to make deductions. For classical and fluid mechanics, I think it's alright. For E&M, totally useless (I like electrochemistry better and playing around with the Nernst equation).

    Calculus comes to life with calculus-based physics. The early applications of calculus involves knowing that velocity and acceleration are time derivatives of position. This means calculus-based physics. Same with concepts of dot and cross products (which is how work and torque are defined). I just think it's overkill for a prereq.
     
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    numbersloth

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    This exact agrument for why I think calc should be in the physics classes.

    Algebraic physics literally is just number plugging and chugging at my university. Calc physics asks you to know how to apply the concepts...

    Might be dependent on the university.

    Also want to add that calculus-based physics rarely actually uses calculus in the questions (i.e. on exams). In my classes, it really was only used in lecture to derive the equations which helped us remember them or be able to derive them if we forgot. It also helped to tie together which equations are related.
     
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    Mad Jack

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    Algebra-based physics is just conceptual. The course uses equations derived from calculus (which looks like memorizing tbh which is why i don't like it), and uses a lot of proportional relationships to make deductions. For classical and fluid mechanics, I think it's alright. For E&M, totally useless (I like electrochemistry better and playing around with the Nernst equation).

    Calculus comes to life with calculus-based physics. The early applications of calculus involves knowing that velocity and acceleration are time derivatives of position. This means calculus-based physics. Same with concepts of dot and cross products (which is how work and torque are defined). I just think it's overkill for a prereq.
    Pretty much. Like, you're not doing a whole lot of E&M work in med school, and by not a lot I mean practically zero. Torque isn't a thing you deal with, velocity and acceleration are basically unheard of, etc. But the big stuff- classical and particularly fluid mechanics- is pretty well covered.
     

    Lawpy

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    Pretty much. Like, you're not doing a whole lot of E&M work in med school, and by not a lot I mean practically zero. Torque isn't a thing you deal with, velocity and acceleration are basically unheard of, etc. But the big stuff- classical and particularly fluid mechanics- is pretty well covered.

    The stuff on Nernst equation can be counterintuitive but useful for stuff dealing with electrolyte imbalances, which I think is key in physio
     
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    Psai

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    Ask Abraham Flexner. Personally, I don't think that it should be a pre-req anymore. Cell Bio/Biochem/Molecular Bio/Genetics...those should be!



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexner_Report

    Disagree, Physics is very important and useful on a daily basis. Anything to do with the heart, kidney and lungs requires a basic knowledge of physics. Don't want to rehash the whole list above but circuits and fluid dynamics is incredibly important.
     
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    Tenk

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    One of the smartest icu docs I've ever met was a former physicist with a phd. Never seen anyone who could calculate vent settings and hemodynamics in his head so fast and so accurately. Impressive stuff.
     
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    Lawpy

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    One of the smartest icu docs I've ever met was a former physicist with a phd. Never seen anyone who could calculate vent settings and hemodynamics in his head so fast and so accurately. Impressive stuff.

    I think @mimelim mentioned something similar in regards to fast and accurate EKG analysis by calculating some Fourier transforms + derivatives quickly in mind and able to make an effective diagnosis readily. Something like that I believe.
     

    freak7

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    I think @mimelim mentioned something similar in regards to fast and accurate EKG analysis by calculating some Fourier transforms + derivatives quickly in mind and able to make an effective diagnosis readily. Something like that I believe.
    fourierDefinition.gif

    Psh... child's play.

    (Totally kidding, that's actually really impressive to do FT's in your head)
     

    Lawpy

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    fourierDefinition.gif

    Psh... child's play.

    (Totally kidding, that's actually really impressive to do FT's in your head)

    Yeah there are some tricks and shortcuts to quickly calculate FTs without actually calculating the integrals. Still learning about it currently so don't know atm!
     
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    freak7

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    Yeah there are some tricks and shortcuts to quickly calculate FTs without actually calculating the integrals. Still learning about it currently so don't know atm!
    Yeah that's kind of what I figured they did.
     

    freak7

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    why not Real Analysis or Abstract Algebra while we're at it?

    Actually some good old-fashioned group theory could do a lot of people a lot of good.
     
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    Mad Jack

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    I think @mimelim mentioned something similar in regards to fast and accurate EKG analysis by calculating some Fourier transforms + derivatives quickly in mind and able to make an effective diagnosis readily. Something like that I believe.
    It's interesting, when I look at an EKG, I just kind of see a heart that is stretched in different directions in my mind based upon all of the different leads, with areas that are likely to be ischemic blue and everything else red. I just kind of use each lead as a scaffold for the heart in my mind, and make it beat according to the rhythm I see. I'm a very visual person though, it's just kind of how I process things. There's a reason I post so many gifs on the forum, and why I've practically got a photographic memory for every gif on the internet lol. Wish I could see things how mimelim does, it's got to be very interesting.
     
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    Lawpy

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    It's interesting, when I look at an EKG, I just kind of see a heart that is stretched in different directions in my mind based upon all of the different leads, with areas that are likely to be ischemic blue and everything else red. I just kind of use each lead as a scaffold for the heart in my mind, and make it beat according to the rhythm I see. I'm a very visual person though, it's just kind of how I process things. There's a reason I post so many gifs on the forum, and why I've practically got a photographic memory for every gif on the internet lol. Wish I could see things how mimelim does, it's got to be very interesting.

    Visual learning is awesome. I can't grasp a block of text easily, so I like visualizing pathways and stuff.
     
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    group_theory

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    Speaking about group theory, I was surprised to see an SDN mod named @group_theory who helped out a lot in these forums + osteo forums. A possible connection? :naughty:

    You'll be amazed how many people think I'm "group therapy" instead of "group theory"

    I'm also a pulmonary/critical care attending so physics is used a lot in my field - whether it's understand airflow in lung disease (and explaining to students how to read PFTs), to the ICU where understanding how to oxygenate and ventilate difficult patients, the effects of intrathoracic pressures on cardiac output, understanding Swan Ganz numbers (what is SVR and what happens to SVR with sepsis or cardiogenic shock or hemorrhagic shock?), to the use of more "interesting" ventilators (such as oscillators, jet ventilation, and even VDR)

    I've yet to find a way to incorporate Galois theory into the ICU ... imaging the shock of the fellows, residents, and students if I try to bring it up on Pimp rounds :scared:.

    But knowing basic concepts of physics is important - it's important to understand why a PICC line cannot be used for aggressive resuscitation, why chest recoil is important when you do chest compression, understanding the principles of ultrasound when you use it for procedures. The concept of pre-load and afterload that you learn in cardiology is similar to the massless frictionless spring that you learn in physics 101.
     
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    freak7

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    I've yet to find a way to incorporate Galois theory into the ICU ... imaging the shock of the fellows, residents, and students if I try to bring it up on Pimp rounds :scared:.

    If you ever get an Evariste in the unit (heyoo), you should just go for it.

    Edit: I can picture it now: "Mr. Galois is a 20 year old male presenting with a gunshot wound and a nasty case of automorphisms."

    Edit2: Call Dr. Field, does anyone know his extension?
     
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    leonardoson

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    As a physics major, not only is physics FASCINATING, but it teaches you how to problem solve and sift through information. What are math classes? applying mathmatecal techniques. What's a biology class? Memorizing things. What's a physics class? You do homework problems that give you information and you have to take that information, figure out what's needed, and find an answer. I took a class on relativity where almost every homework problem was deriving equations from other equations. It was the most mentally challenging class I had taken. "here is an equation, now make it look like this". No memorizing, just figuring stuff out. Nothing like biology where the biggest stress was trying to memorize everything and regurgitate it on a test.

    The biggest thing is, physics teaches you HOW TO THINK. Analyze information. Come to a conclusion.

    In the future I see indirect applications to differential diagnoses'. Sifting through information, figuring out what's relevant, and coming a conclusion.

    This opinion is coming from a calculus physics perspective which I highly recommend. I don't know how much problem solving you are required to do in alegbra based physics, at my school it's known to be dumbed down.
     
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    leonardoson

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    You'll be amazed how many people think I'm "group therapy" instead of "group theory"

    I'm also a pulmonary/critical care attending so physics is used a lot in my field - whether it's understand airflow in lung disease (and explaining to students how to read PFTs), to the ICU where understanding how to oxygenate and ventilate difficult patients, the effects of intrathoracic pressures on cardiac output, understanding Swan Ganz numbers (what is SVR and what happens to SVR with sepsis or cardiogenic shock or hemorrhagic shock?), to the use of more "interesting" ventilators (such as oscillators, jet ventilation, and even VDR)

    I've yet to find a way to incorporate Galois theory into the ICU ... imaging the shock of the fellows, residents, and students if I try to bring it up on Pimp rounds :scared:.

    But knowing basic concepts of physics is important - it's important to understand why a PICC line cannot be used for aggressive resuscitation, why chest recoil is important when you do chest compression, understanding the principles of ultrasound when you use it for procedures. The concept of pre-load and afterload that you learn in cardiology is similar to the massless frictionless spring that you learn in physics 101.
    simple harmonic motion is everywhere!
     

    Lawpy

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    You'll be amazed how many people think I'm "group therapy" instead of "group theory"

    I'm also a pulmonary/critical care attending so physics is used a lot in my field - whether it's understand airflow in lung disease (and explaining to students how to read PFTs), to the ICU where understanding how to oxygenate and ventilate difficult patients, the effects of intrathoracic pressures on cardiac output, understanding Swan Ganz numbers (what is SVR and what happens to SVR with sepsis or cardiogenic shock or hemorrhagic shock?), to the use of more "interesting" ventilators (such as oscillators, jet ventilation, and even VDR)

    I've yet to find a way to incorporate Galois theory into the ICU ... imaging the shock of the fellows, residents, and students if I try to bring it up on Pimp rounds :scared:.

    But knowing basic concepts of physics is important - it's important to understand why a PICC line cannot be used for aggressive resuscitation, why chest recoil is important when you do chest compression, understanding the principles of ultrasound when you use it for procedures. The concept of pre-load and afterload that you learn in cardiology is similar to the massless frictionless spring that you learn in physics 101.

    Really useful stuff. Thanks for this! I didn't expect pulmonary/CC to have a lot of physics involved (same with ICU). This is really interesting.
     

    leonardoson

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    Also want to add that calculus-based physics rarely actually uses calculus in the questions (i.e. on exams). In my classes, it really was only used in lecture to derive the equations which helped us remember them or be able to derive them if we forgot. It also helped to tie together which equations are related.
    I had to use faraday's law, which is a differential equation, to find the B field at a certain moment in time from the change in magnetic flux. Each school is different.
     
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