Why is RVU an abomination by SDN?

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Crappy Match
New
Prior to this year no Federal Loans
Owner and Dean are Devry/ Ross U

Despite what you think For-Profit Status is a disgraceful scar upon any institute that will harm your residency prospects.
 
serenade said:
Crappy Match
New
Prior to this year no Federal Loans
Owner and Dean are Devry/ Ross U

Despite what you think For-Profit Status is a disgraceful scar upon any institute that will harm your residency prospects.
Click to expand...

Why is their match crappy? Can you post a link to some sort of list then?
 
Look it up. It's on Osteo somewhere. It's crappy because it literally has 3 matches to residency program that are even somewhat well known. This compared to other DO schools that match at least a quarter of their students into mid level ACGME residencies and around 10% to strong top tier residencies.
 
serenade said:
Look it up. It's on Osteo somewhere. It's crappy because it literally has 3 matches to residency program that are even somewhat well known. This compared to other DO schools that match at least a quarter of their students into mid level ACGME residencies and around 10% to strong top tier residencies.
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Then why do people apply to RVU?
 
The for-profit status of RVU comes up all the time here on SDN and it's never complimentary. What do you think the conversation is like when program directors are reviewing your application for a residency? Why add extra hassle to the whole ordeal?

There is nothing about RVU that makes it worth the hassle. It's not cheap enough, nice enough, established enough, or respected enough.
 
Luelinks said:
Then why do people apply to RVU?
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Because:

1) Desperate
2) Like Colorado
3) Don't read SDN
4) Don't think ahead about residencies, OPTI network, etc
5) Don't care about anything but "IM GOING TO MEDICAL SCHOOL"
6) Want to be part of "the beginning" of a new school
7) See new school and think WOOP another school I may potentially get into

Any combination of the reasons above.
I'll admit I applied to RVU for reason #7 but it was soon apparent that I wasted my money
 
Well of my schools this application cycle, ACOM and RVU will be at the bottom of my list 😀
 
I'd like to point out that everyone is being overly hateful here.

It was not a crappy first year match compared to other first year DO schools. It is a crappy match compared to well established schools. If you go to a new DO, expect similiar results. They have made changes for improvement with the first few years under their belt as every other school does. We'll see how the match list changes with these improvements and some increased recognition. I believe the way the newer classes are scoring on the boards will provide great results.

The for-profit status is EXPECTED to be a bad thing. It has been anything but so far as they are investing quite a bit in their students. I'd like to point out more so than other not for profit schools. The implications are that it could be a bad thing, but not for profit has not really lived up to what it is supposed to and anyone ignoring that is just being ignorant. So really what is the difference? As for PDs caring about this, well PDs care about the quality of the student they are getting. So if this is a concern you may as well not go to a DO school. Hell you better not go to a school ranked less than an Harvard because the residencies you are looking at that will judge based on such a thing are the elite.

What exactly is wrong with the loan status? NOTHING. They did a great job with it. Weak point.

So why is everyone on SDN claiming it's an abomination? Because it's different and easy to hate. They won't actually provide you reasons, just list BS like serenade did. Look at DrWily's post and then the matriculating statistics, do you think his list makes any logical sense? If any of their reasons concern you then don't apply there. If you could get accepted there you could get accepted to a school more accepted by the SDN community.
 
azide10 said:
As for PDs caring about this, well PDs care about the quality of the student they are getting. So if this is a concern you may as well not go to a DO school. Hell you better not go to a school ranked less than an Harvard because the residencies you are looking at that will judge based on such a thing are the elite.
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Hahahaha. This is absolutely not true. Obviously, they want the best candidates they can find but all things being equal, they'll take the best candidate with the best pedigree.

We can all agree there aren't enough Harvard grads to go around. This means PDs will make due by hiring the best non-Harvard students they can get for their residency programs. Why weaken your position against another equally qualified candidate by going to an institution that will make PDs raise eyebrows? This is also true for DO grads applying to ACGME programs. If you're concerned about being a DO (and you should be, for certain programs) then why make it twice as difficult to be a DO from the only for-profit institution in the entire country? That is not the type of unique exceptionalism you want as an applicant :laugh:
 
All I know is that RVU is being really really picky this year..People with great stats for DO are getting rejected. Ive only seen 3.6/30 mcat scores get an interview invite, the rest of us got quickly thrown to the curb, lol. They say they want upper division bio courses and a ton of community service..I have close to 400 hours of the second but I admit not much of the first...I did not expect to get rejected so fast there, lol. They were never very high on my school list, and like Dr Wily said, thats pretty much the only reason I applied there. tbh, the for profit thing really got to me too a bit. A lot of people told me RVU was awesome but I just didnt buy it. Getting rejected from there wasnt a huge loss when theres 15 other great schools id rather be at...but hey to each his own. I'm not going to hate on RVU, i'm just a little curious as to why they're the only DO school to reject so many applicants so fast..I realize my stats aren't amazing but there were several people with much higher stats than me that got quickly rejected, lol.
 
azide10 said:
I'd like to point out that everyone is being overly hateful here.

It was not a crappy first year match compared to other first year DO schools. It is a crappy match compared to well established schools. If you go to a new DO, expect similiar results. They have made changes for improvement with the first few years under their belt as every other school does. We'll see how the match list changes with these improvements and some increased recognition. I believe the way the newer classes are scoring on the boards will provide great results.

Your point? If you can get into RVU, you could have gotten into a mid tier school like LMU or a low tier like Pikesvile that all have significantly better matches.

The for-profit status is EXPECTED to be a bad thing. It has been anything but so far as they are investing quite a bit in their students. I'd like to point out more so than other not for profit schools. The implications are that it could be a bad thing, but not for profit has not really lived up to what it is supposed to and anyone ignoring that is just being ignorant. So really what is the difference? As for PDs caring about this, well PDs care about the quality of the student they are getting. So if this is a concern you may as well not go to a DO school. Hell you better not go to a school ranked less than an Harvard because the residencies you are looking at that will judge based on such a thing are the elite.

PD's did care, they didn't want to lower their program's rank by taking on a neo-caribean student.

What exactly is wrong with the loan status? NOTHING. They did a great job with it. Weak point.

Kk, enjoy your 7% Loans.

So why is everyone on SDN claiming it's an abomination? Because it's different and easy to hate. They won't actually provide you reasons, just list BS like serenade did. Look at DrWily's post and then the matriculating statistics, do you think his list makes any logical sense? If any of their reasons concern you then don't apply there. If you could get accepted there you could get accepted to a school more accepted by the SDN community.
Click to expand...

... Dude you're diluted. All of DrWilly's and my comments are valid reasons not to attend RVU. I'm sorry if the truth hurts.
 
The question I was responding to was "why do people apply to RVU?" not "why do people matriculate into RVU?" so I went a little overboard with my reasons.

RVU is (was) the most unprofessional school I applied to when it came to the admissions process. Every single school that I was rejected/put on hold sent me a letter or an email stating so (or clearly had it on their portal when you login). How did I find out that I was no longer being considered by RVU? I couldn't log into their website anymore. That's it. When you pay $$$ for each school, I'd expect a little more professionalism. Left a bad taste in my mouth.
 
Their criteria are ridiculous... I was rejected because I didn't have hand-on experience even though I've shadowed 3 dos and have 400 hours of hospital and hospice volunteering... One of their recommendations was to work as an EMT .... I'm sorry does that sound realistic to any of you? I was also rejected because I didn't take more than 8 hrs of science classes at a time although I was taking 12 hours of grad classes for my master's + 8 hours post grad science + teaching full time. Their loss!
 
I got a very nice "we dont want you" letter from RVU! bahah.

And wow thats crazy? They only accept EMTs then? Lol. I mean i live in a rural area getting certified as an EMT is one thing, getting a job is another in this economy...More than 8 hours of science classes at a time? What if were non science majors? -_-.
 
I think they are trying to overcome their for profit status by making up all these rules to only accept people who are SUPER qualified. That is, assuming said qualified people arent accepted and matriculate elsewhere. What happens when all their superstar candidates ditch them for somewhere else? Not bashing, just saying.
 
this sounds harsh but I feel like RVU isnt the first choice school of a lot of 3.6/30 canidates that are getting interviews there lol
 
ColeSmalls said:
this sounds harsh but I feel like RVU isnt the first choice school of a lot of 3.6/30 canidates that are getting interviews there lol
Click to expand...

Nothing harsh about it, a person who's got a 3.6/30 is aiming primarily for MD and higher tier DO schools like CCOM.
 
Admittedly I don't think my stats would've made the cut for RVU (or so they say), but I couldn't get past the controversy and decided not to send them a primary anyway.

Whoever said ACOM was at the bottom of their list with RVU, how come?
 
Serenade, my point is that you are speaking completely ignorantly. Again you ignored mine and anyone else point on that match list argument. You simply ignore it every time you post about it. Period.

You do not know that PDs cared and have zero way of backing that argument up. Period.

Loans got up to 7%? you're right! How did they deal with it?

Stop posting BS. If you have a legitimate argument then post it. I could go on to explain what I said here, but why? you'll ignore it as you have done and continue to do.
 
racerwad said:
Hahahaha. This is absolutely not true. Obviously, they want the best candidates they can find but all things being equal, they'll take the best candidate with the best pedigree.

We can all agree there aren't enough Harvard grads to go around. This means PDs will make due by hiring the best non-Harvard students they can get for their residency programs. Why weaken your position against another equally qualified candidate by going to an institution that will make PDs raise eyebrows? This is also true for DO grads applying to ACGME programs. If you're concerned about being a DO (and you should be, for certain programs) then why make it twice as difficult to be a DO from the only for-profit institution in the entire country? That is not the type of unique exceptionalism you want as an applicant :laugh:
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I said except I think you're mistaken that it goes all the way down the residency scale. At the top they have biases for what they want and rightfully so as everyone is so congested at that elite level. At a certain point they will take the best candidate with the best pedigree. If RVU is continuing on their trend, then those students will have the better pedigree as board scores + other things trump school attended. Yes going DO will provide you a disadvantage in the ACGME match, everyone should realize that. There is nothing proving that going to RVU will then double the difficulty as you say.
 
And then look at the rest of the comments here. No you don't need to be an EMT to get an interview here. A silent rejection? I agree, that's terrible. But so many schools do that, why is hate specified to RVU here?

Why doesn't NOVA get crapped on for how they handle the admissions process?
It took VCOM over 3 weeks to respond to a question I had for them.
LMU doesn't pick up the phone! And there application did not work!


You know what. It is busy for everyone including the schools. Give them a break and stop acting like there are only problems with one school.

RVU is not my top choice school but I did apply there and will be interviewing there. They are doing a good job thus far and everyone needs to lay off until they do otherwise, which no one has done an adequate job of proving yet.
 
azide10 said:
And then look at the rest of the comments here. No you don't need to be an EMT to get an interview here. A silent rejection? I agree, that's terrible. But so many schools do that, why is hate specified to RVU here?

Why doesn't NOVA get crapped on for how they handle the admissions process?
It took VCOM over 3 weeks to respond to a question I had for them.
LMU doesn't pick up the phone! And there application did not work!


You know what. It is busy for everyone including the schools. Give them a break and stop acting like there are only problems with one school.

RVU is not my top choice school but I did apply there and will be interviewing there. They are doing a good job thus far and everyone needs to lay off until they do otherwise, which no one has done an adequate job of proving yet.
Click to expand...

You seem to be overlooking the fact that RVU is for-profit which, whether you choose to admit it or not, is a HUGE deal and instant-turn off for many potential applicants such as myself.
 
Pretty soon we will have another school that replace RVU...It's going to be Liberty University AKA Right Wing University.
 
And then Rhode Island... Kinda a disgraceful scar on the entire DO community if multiple Neo-Carib schools start opening up under COCA.


@Azide, tough luck, you choose a bad school. Live with it and don't try to convince others that it isn't a bad place. And don't bring up other school's practices, you don't have to be for-profit to be a good business and make money for the board, NOVA and LECOM both accomplish it. But why don't we hate on them? Because they have a huge OPTI and because their name is actually worth something to PD's.
 
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serenade said:
And then Rhode Island... Kinda a disgraceful scar on the entire DO community if multiple Neo-Carib schools start opening up under COCA.


@Azide, tough luck, you choose a bad school. Live with it and don't try to convince others that it isn't a bad place. And don't bring up other school's practices, you don't have to be for-profit to be a good business and make money for the board, NOVA and LECOM both accomplish it. But why don't we hate on them? Because they have a huge OPTI and because their name is actually worth something to PD's.
Click to expand...

I'll add that I've seen NOVA get ripped on for how expensive it is so it's not like anyone is pulling punches.
 
toxicwombat said:
You seem to be overlooking the fact that RVU is for-profit which, whether you choose to admit it or not, is a HUGE deal and instant-turn off for many potential applicants such as myself.
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The sole reason why RVU was off my list of schools to apply to.
 
angldrps said:
The sole reason why RVU was off my list of schools to apply to.
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+1. I love colorado as well. They have great cycling. It still wasnt enough to overlook the for-profit.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
I'll add that I've seen NOVA get ripped on for how expensive it is so it's not like anyone is pulling punches.
Click to expand...

LECOM and Touro have all been called diploma mills and NYCOM and KYCOM are basically regarded to as the worst schools to ever possibly attend. Then you have PCOM which has ******ed OMM exams that nearly made a bunch of students have to retake it. No school is above criticism. However most schools have redeeming factors, RVU does not.
 
Can we turn this into the best DO school threads?
I choose:
CCOM
AZCOM
TCOM
PCOM.
 
Pigglyjuff said:
Can we turn this into the best DO school threads?
I choose:
CCOM
AZCOM
TCOM
PCOM.
Click to expand...

It's hard to point on deduce what DO schools are the best. Usually I break it down into three tiers, top ( CCOM, PCOM, DMU, Public DO schools, KCOM), Mid tier ( AZCOM, KCUMB, LMU, NOVA, LECOM's, UNECOM, Western, Touro's), and Low tier ( New schools, schools that have a horrible rep (RVU)) etc.

And so on. But to be completely honest once a school has reached mid-tier the ranking ceases even matter that much. So it's more of a question of is the school established enough that it has produced enough DO's to have a significant alumni base that can vouch for the students being prepared.
 
The best DO school is the one you matriculate to.

AZCOM.
 
azide10 said:
...I think you're mistaken that it goes all the way down the residency scale. At the top they have biases for what they want and rightfully so as everyone is so congested at that elite level. At a certain point they will take the best candidate with the best pedigree...There is nothing proving that going to RVU will then double the difficulty as you say.
Click to expand...

Your naivety undermines your credibility. Obviously, we don't know one another and we don't know what the other knows. But, I assure you, everything goes to the "residency scale". And then, from there, it goes to the "fellowship scale" and then, the type of job offers you get, etc. Everything builds upon itself. You're foolish to think that we get where we get just on ability alone. I wish that were the case, but it isn't, and to ignore that only diminishes your potential.

Residencies (the good ones) are academic in nature. They are run and staffed by academics. Academics admire other academic-types and no academian worth their salt likes for-profit institutions. My personal opinion is that they are an anathema; I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this and I would bet that most PDs (at least at the programs I would want to go to) would agree.

I can understand why people apply to RVU. If you're in the position where it's your only option, by all means, make the most of your situation. Good luck in the future.
 
racerwad said:
Your naivety undermines your credibility. Obviously, we don't know one another and we don't know what the other knows. But, I assure you, everything goes to the "residency scale". And then, from there, it goes to the "fellowship scale" and then, the type of job offers you get, etc. Everything builds upon itself. You're foolish to think that we get where we get just on ability alone. I wish that were the case, but it isn't, and to ignore that only diminishes your potential.

Residencies (the good ones) are academic in nature. They are run and staffed by academics. Academics admire other academic-types and no academian worth their salt likes for-profit institutions. My personal opinion is that they are an anathema; I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this and I would bet that most PDs (at least at the programs I would want to go to) would agree.

I can understand why people apply to RVU. If you're in the position where it's your only option, by all means, make the most of your situation. Good luck in the future.
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Well said 👍
 
Azide- you said the for-profit status is "expected" to be a bad thing. sure RVU is doing things to make better for them like trying for more competitive candidates. They are aware of the hot water they are in so they have to. the problem is that regardless of their intentions, regardless of expectations, regardless of theory, the reality shows that every school that is for profit right now is a degree mill. Did they turn into this when they were reputable? I don't know. It is like smoking 6 packs a day for 30 years and saying "I'm not going to be the one getting cancer." So the odds are that RVU will become a degree mill. So people who got a degree from University of Phoenix in it's first few years MAY have the best education in the nation, but right now, their degree is effectively worthless, and if that happens to RVU, it would suck to be a physician and have trouble getting patients, residency, etc. when you have had all that training and are stuck with the debt.

that being said, there are reasons people go there. if a person is limited geographically, it doesn't matter what is has going against it. and all of this is speculation. you could be right and the for profit status could work like it is theorized to work. it is very unlikely, but it is possible.

don't blame the not for profit system for making the for profit system a joke. blame the other for profit schools that crap all over their students.
 
To be completely honest, the school is too new to form any real, or well based opinion. Most opinions at this time are speculative. In my opinion, I'd say give it 5-10 more years and then we'll really be able to say whether or not it's a good school. It will either exceed all expectations and become a great school, be your average "mid-tier" school that doesn't really stand out in any way other than its for-profit status, or it can fail miserably. Only time will tell! Anyone saying it sucks, or will fail, or whatever else in the 'hating' category, is simply sharing their prediction for the school, just as one may attempt to predict the NBA finals at the start or middle of the season...
 
abolt18 said:
To be completely honest, the school is too new to form any real, or well based opinion. Most opinions at this time are speculative. In my opinion, I'd say give it 5-10 more years and then we'll really be able to say whether or not it's a good school. It will either exceed all expectations and become a great school, be your average "mid-tier" school that doesn't really stand out in any way other than its for-profit status, or it can fail miserably. Only time will tell! Anyone saying it sucks, or will fail, or whatever else in the 'hating' category, is simply sharing their prediction for the school, just as one may attempt to predict the NBA finals at the start or middle of the season...
Click to expand...

The issue is that right now, pre-meds don't know if it's going to be a good school or not so why take that risk? If you're good enough to get into RVU with the stats they post, you can get into any number of other schools who've been established longer and have shown to be good schools. That's why RVU gets the hate. Why risk your medical education and tons of debt for a school that hasn't proven itself yet? Do yourself a favor and let some other chump find out if its a good school or not.
 
serenade said:
It's hard to point on deduce what DO schools are the best. Usually I break it down into three tiers, top ( CCOM, PCOM, DMU, Public DO schools, KCOM), Mid tier ( AZCOM, KCUMB, LMU, NOVA, LECOM's, UNECOM, Western, Touro's), and Low tier ( New schools, schools that have a horrible rep (RVU)) etc.

And so on. But to be completely honest once a school has reached mid-tier the ranking ceases even matter that much. So it's more of a question of is the school established enough that it has produced enough DO's to have a significant alumni base that can vouch for the students being prepared.
Click to expand...

serenade said:
huh? lol
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DrWily goes to AZCOM, I go to NSU-COM. Both of which you labeled as "Mid-tier" schools.
 
DrWily said:
The issue is that right now, pre-meds don't know if it's going to be a good school or not so why take that risk? If you're good enough to get into RVU with the stats they post, you can get into any number of other schools who've been established longer and have shown to be good schools. That's why RVU gets the hate. Why risk your medical education and tons of debt for a school that hasn't proven itself yet? Do yourself a favor and let some other chump find out if its a good school or not.
Click to expand...

I hear that. Can't argue it whatsoever.
 
serenade said:
It's hard to point on deduce what DO schools are the best. Usually I break it down into three tiers, top ( CCOM, PCOM, DMU, Public DO schools, KCOM), Mid tier ( AZCOM, KCUMB, LMU, NOVA, LECOM's, UNECOM, Western, Touro's), and Low tier ( New schools, schools that have a horrible rep (RVU)) etc.
Click to expand...

This is the second time I've seen this (or a similar ranking) posted by you in the past week or so and I would like to point out that as DO who has rotated with students from may of the mentioned schools and based on their respective match lists, your ranking is not accurate. To include a school that has graduated <5 classes with schools that have graduated 30+ classes is not very accurate...

IF there is any ranking, it is:
Top: Schools opened prior to 1980
Mid: Schools opened 1980 - 2000ish
Low: Schools opened after 2000ish
RVU

There are some exceptions but the match lists as well as the admission stat support the above ranking fairly well.

serenade said:
But to be completely honest once a school has reached mid-tier the ranking ceases even matter that much. So it's more of a question of is the school established enough that it has produced enough DO's to have a significant alumni base that can vouch for the students being prepared.
Click to expand...

Agree with above which is basically the basis for my ranking but inconsistent with your ranking.
 
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bala565 said:
This is the second time I've seen this (or a similar ranking) posted by you in the past week or so and I would like to point out that as DO who has rotated with students from may of the mentioned schools and based on their respective match lists, your ranking is not accurate. To include a school that has graduated <5 classes with schools that have graduated 30+ classes is not very accurate...

IF there is any ranking, it is:
Top: Schools opened prior to 1980
Mid: Schools opened 1980 - 2000ish
Low: Schools opened after 2000ish
RVU

There are some exceptions but the match lists as well as the admission stat support the above ranking fairly well.



Agree with above which is basically the basis for my ranking but inconsistent with your ranking.
Click to expand...


Hmm I like your ranking, I just incorporated my perceptions of prestige albeit from what I've gotten from premeds here. Not in anyway objective.
That being said premeds on here tend to elevate the schools I've put in the top tier on a significantly higher level than the established ones in the mid tier.
But like I said, the second point was really a counter argument to the pointlessness of making rankings beyond the mid-tier point.
 
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