Why is there a negative view towards Argosy University?

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Edieb, I totally agree. The APA is what we have for now, and I certainly don't intend to continue pissing and moaning without action. :thumbup:

When the student loan department was created I don't think anyone imagined providing doctoral training at 200k+ per student.

Tax payers are subsidizing the proliferation of for-profit and professional schools.

I think there is going to be a new era when we become more fiscally sane about our federal expenditures. Money utilization reviews and private endowment requirements would be a good start for any school receiving tax payer money.

I am very curious to see just what these for-profit schools are doing with all of the tuition money they are collecting...

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Edieb, I totally agree. The APA is what we have for now, and I certainly don't intend to continue pissing and moaning without action. :thumbup:



I am very curious to see just what these for-profit schools are doing with all of the tuition money they are collecting...

Actually it's no secret. They are making profit and soliciting shareholder investment to expand their capacity so they can then enroll more students who use federal aid. That's what the congressional hearings are all about. They are taking no risk on federally backed tax payer money and are actually profiting on it.

I think professional schools should be subject to money utilization reviews also. Any organization that subsists entirely out of tax payer funds should be using that money in the most effective way possible. Universities are required to make budgets and to show where money is going. Professional schools (regardless of "for" or "non" profit status) need to have serious audits like by KPMG or some other firm. Moreover, the government needs to start phasing out schools that do not raise at least 50% endowment in 20 yrs. My school ( a non profit pro school) should not exist if it eventually cannot afford to cover half of the tuition of each graduate student.

Those are my 2 cents.
 
There is another thread on here that talked about a news report about for-profit schools, and there was some interesting data about the %-of loan funding vs. endowment, and it was horrid. This is an area that for-profit universities (not just psych) would have a hard time meeting.
 
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Everyone's saying the student loan bubble is the next housing bubble, and it's going to burst any time now.
 
I don't mean to digress from the main conversation happening right now, but I checked over the thread and this has not yet been posted.

There was a Frontline story that aired last year about For-Profit Education in the US, and part of it featured a PsyD graduate suing Argosy Dallas (with a number of other grads) because they promised her that the program would be APA-accredited by the time she graduated, and it was not.

You can view it here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/
 
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I think that was the report that was the impetus for the thread I referenced above. A search for Frontline and/or for-profit universities should turn it up.

Thanks!

If it was, I'll leave that link there as a reminder of a good resource that people in this thread wouldn't need to search for.

Back to the topic at hand. I don't mean to slow down the momentum of the conversation.
 
I am currently enrolled in the PsyD program at Argosy Dallas and have heard nothing but negative feedback since I began. In my experience, the people who believe the program is sub-par do not know how great the program actually is. I matched for internship in round one, my dissertation is on it's way to being completed and I feel I have a well-rounded academic base to start my career. In fact a majority of the people in my program matched round one and 100% of internship applicants matched last year. The doctoral program has no online classes, they're not allowed. At each of my practicum sites, I have worked with PhD students from TWU, UTSW, and SMU. I do not feel inferior in my skills in any way. In fact I am often told how Argosy Dallas students excel in assessments.
As I come close to my internship year, I believe I have the normal fears of impending graduation and what the future holds, but I do not believe I am ill prepared for what's ahead of me. I realize for profit schools have a bad reputation, and I have had my share of frustrations. At the end of the day, I have no regrets and am quite satisfied with the school. :)
 
I am currently enrolled in the PsyD program at Argosy Dallas and have heard nothing but negative feedback since I began. In my experience, the people who believe the program is sub-par do not know how great the program actually is. I matched for internship in round one, my dissertation is on it's way to being completed and I feel I have a well-rounded academic base to start my career. In fact a majority of the people in my program matched round one and 100% of internship applicants matched last year. The doctoral program has no online classes, they're not allowed. At each of my practicum sites, I have worked with PhD students from TWU, UTSW, and SMU. I do not feel inferior in my skills in any way. In fact I am often told how Argosy Dallas students excel in assessments.
As I come close to my internship year, I believe I have the normal fears of impending graduation and what the future holds, but I do not believe I am ill prepared for what's ahead of me. I realize for profit schools have a bad reputation, and I have had my share of frustrations. At the end of the day, I have no regrets and am quite satisfied with the school. :)

I'm not attempting to completely pick apart your post; however, looking at these statistics, it would appear 66.7% of Argosy Dallas students matched last year, not 100%. The ten-year average for the program looks to be exactly 50%, which is below the average for all clinical psychology programs over this same ten-year period (73.7%). It's possible that all of the 9 unmatched applicants in 2010 found spots via clearinghouse, although as psychscientist above mentioned, there's no way of knowing whether these sites were APA or APPIC accredited.

Edit: I see psycscientist beat me to the punch. To add something unique to the discussion, then...

Looking at Argosy's stats nationwide, it would appear that only Honolulu (78.4%), Atlanta (80.8%), and Chicago (70.2%) have match rates higher than 70%. The majority of the remaining campuses come in at or below 50%. This is likely one reason why there seems to be such a negative view of Argosy in many areas.
 
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It should be know that the match statistics are posted for students who matched in round 1 and did not have to go to the clearinghouse.

So in the Argosy chicago case it is possible that 100% matched after the clearinghouse.
 
It should be know that the match statistics are posted for students who matched in round 1 and did not have to go to the clearinghouse.

So in the Argosy chicago case it is possible that 100% matched after the clearinghouse.

I agree with psycscientist that this is not only unlikely, but also a poor rationale for evaluating match rates. Internship search is hell, who wants to go in leaning heavily on "round 2" chances?
 
It should be know that the match statistics are posted for students who matched in round 1 and did not have to go to the clearinghouse.

So in the Argosy chicago case it is possible that 100% matched after the clearinghouse.

And this means what, exactly? That, by chance, this one year, Argosy was able to throw all of their large cohort (probably around 40) into the marketplace? Congrats to them. But it says nothing about the school until there is a trend of this outcome. I think one should be knowledgeable about the occurring of anomalies, no?
 
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I also agree that at first glace it is a poor way to look at match rates. Completely understand. I just believe that it is not unrealistic to believe it is a possibility.

I'm coming from a private university based psy.d program (my cohort 16). The match stats for the past 4 years are 80-95%, however, 100% of students were placed at internship by the clearinghouse if not initially matched and mostly at APA sites.
 
I also agree that at first glace it is a poor way to look at match rates. Completely understand. I just believe that it is not unrealistic to believe it is a possibility.

I'm coming from a private university based psy.d program (my cohort 16). The match stats for the past 4 years are 80-95%, however, 100% of students were placed at internship by the clearinghouse if not initially matched and mostly at APA sites.

That could be, although even that sounds like a miracle given the unpredictable nature of clearing house prior to this year.

But still, there are glaring differences:
1. University based vs. Prof School
2. Cohort of 16 versus an average cohort of 70+

Not as likely a scenario for Argosy.
 
That could be, although even that sounds like a miracle given the unpredictable nature of clearing house prior to this year.

But still, there are glaring differences:
1. University based vs. Prof School
2. Cohort of 16 versus an average cohort of 70+

Not as likely a scenario for Argosy.

Agreed. Given match rates in the 50% range, the only way I could see a program consistently placing ~20 applicants post phase I would be if they had their own captive internship. I don't believe this to be the case for Argosy, or if there is one, I don't think it's accredited.
 
It's important to be aware of the growing trend of some programs to funnel their students to alternative internship sites, completely bypassing the Match system. Think about that, 937 students did not match during Phase I this year, and HUNDREDS of other potential applicants didn't even enter the match. Imbalance is an understatement....

This trend is happening much more often now in a number of CA programs because the California Psychological Association has acred. a bunch of new sites to meet the growing number of CA grad students. Unfortunately these sites are not APA or APPIC approved, they often are unfunded, AND they may limit a person's ability to apply for licensure outside of the state of CA. The sites get cheap/free labor, though at what cost to the student and the profession?

Here are the stats for Argosy Orange County:

2005
Total Applicants: 12
APPIC: 10
APA/CPA: 1 (5%)*
CAPIC: 2 (38%)*...their math, not mine.
Funded: 86%

2006
Total Applicants: 21
APPIC: 13
APA/CPA: 1 (5%)
CAPIC: 8 (38%)
Funded: 86%

2007
Total Applicants: 19
APPIC: 9
APA/CPA: 2 (11%)
CAPIC: 10 (53%)
Funded: 63%

2008
Total Applicants: 26
APPIC: 16
APA/CPA: 5 (19%)
CAPIC: 11 (42%)
Funded: 88%

2009
Total Applicants: 16
APPIC: 11
APA/CPA: 2 (13%)
CAPIC: 5 (31%)
Funded: 69%

Here are the stats over that same time period for Argosy SF:

2005
Total Applicants: 33
APPIC: 11
APA/CPA: 7 (20%)
CAPIC: 21 (60%)
Funded: 46%

2006
Total Applicants: 45
APPIC: 15
APA/CPA: 9 (20%)
CAPIC: 29 (64%)
Funded: 36%

2007
Total Applicants: 41
APPIC: 10
APA/CPA: 1 (2%)
CAPIC: 31 (76%)
Funded: 44%

2008
Total Applicants: 66
APPIC: 15
APA/CPA: 3 (5%)
CAPIC: 50 (76% of the cohort!)
Funded: 62%

2009
Total Applicants: 52
APPIC: 14
APA/CPA: 2 (4%)
CAPIC: 38 (73%)
Funded: 73%

If a student looks at those numbers and still wants to go, good luck to them because they'll need it to be competitive in the market.
 
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I have a meet-n-greet set up with the Enrollment person at the Twin Cities campus on Saturday. I'm about 97 percent sure I won't be applying, but I'm going to go to see what the facilities look like and to get some of the questions about its reputation, placements, and controversies answered.

I'm curious to hear how much they gloss over what can only be described as an atrocious placement rate.
 
I have just started my freshmen year and I didn't do all of my reaserch I went online on there facebook and saw that Argosy was a pro profit school then I had noticed that every class I had cost 1600 even it wasn't for my APA. I am very anxious. There was a lawsuit filed just recently for the emc. Basically there taking student loans and doing only god knows what with them. I want to transfer but I was also reading that If you drop out to go to another school they slap you with a cancellation fee...
 
I have just started my freshmen year and I didn't do all of my reaserch I went online on there facebook and saw that Argosy was a pro profit school then I had noticed that every class I had cost 1600 even it wasn't for my APA. I am very anxious. There was a lawsuit filed just recently for the emc. Basically there taking student loans and doing only god knows what with them. I want to transfer but I was also reading that If you drop out to go to another school they slap you with a cancellation fee...



With PhD programs it doesn't seem that one could transfer in the traditional sense. But instead, you'll have to re-apply with everyone else. However, i would suggest that you truly figure out what it is that you want out of a program and advisor before giving it second go. As far as the cancellation fee
goes, I can't imagine it being more than hundreds of thousands of debt you'll incur if you stay. You should definitely think in the long term.
 
With PhD programs it doesn't seem that one could transfer in the traditional sense. But instead, you'll have to re-apply with everyone else. However, i would suggest that you truly figure out what it is that you want out of a program and advisor before giving it second go. As far as the cancellation fee
goes, I can't imagine it being more than hundreds of thousands of debt you'll incur if you stay. You should definitely think in the long term.

I believe Bigjigz is an Argosy undergraduate rather than a student in a doctoral program, so transferring should be easier in that case. I agree with you on the financial considerations, though. A cancellation fee will likely not outweight the debt accrued by sticking it out.

Bigjigz, is there a traditional in-state university or community college you could attend instead? Both of these routes seem more viable than an undergraduate degree from a school that only offers a limited range of classes.
 
Bigjigz, is there a traditional in-state university or community college you could attend instead? Both of these routes seem more viable than an undergraduate degree from a school that only offers a limited range of classes.

As a general rule, you want to avoid as much undergrad debt as possible...and professional schools tend to be quite expensive. CC--> state school is usually the least expensive way to go for a quality education.
 
Agreed. :)

I think we are all inconvenienced by the re-locations, but a steadfast resistance to live somewhere else only feeds into poorer training programs that only aim to meet CAPIC standards, which for the uniformed applicant, is enough because they get a doctorate and get to stay in CA. Although this comes at quite a high price. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar regional/state internship accreditation pops up in NY, too.

The students who are going through CAPIC and not completing APA internships are pretty screwed these days. I get job postings from my program listserve and 80% of entry/post-docs require an apa internship. I am also seeing that apa accredited internships are becoming minimal criteria for even licensed jobs. This is true of hospitals, medical centers, and counseling centers all over the country, including CA. It has always been the case in the VA system, but now its common among other settings. I was surprised by the number of counseling centers that also want apa internships. I don't know where these graduates are going. My bet is that the majority of them are unemployed and cannot get licensed, which is why they are begging for unpaid post-docs. I met someone from Sayerbrook at a networking event recently, and he was surprised that I got a paid internship because most of the students he is training are doing unpaid internships and aren't getting post-docs or licensure.
 
I am currently enrolled in the PsyD program at Argosy Dallas and have heard nothing but negative feedback since I began. In my experience, the people who believe the program is sub-par do not know how great the program actually is. I matched for internship in round one, my dissertation is on it's way to being completed and I feel I have a well-rounded academic base to start my career. In fact a majority of the people in my program matched round one and 100% of internship applicants matched last year. The doctoral program has no online classes, they're not allowed. At each of my practicum sites, I have worked with PhD students from TWU, UTSW, and SMU. I do not feel inferior in my skills in any way. In fact I am often told how Argosy Dallas students excel in assessments.
As I come close to my internship year, I believe I have the normal fears of impending graduation and what the future holds, but I do not believe I am ill prepared for what's ahead of me. I realize for profit schools have a bad reputation, and I have had my share of frustrations. At the end of the day, I have no regrets and am quite satisfied with the school. :)

Argosy hires people like the one above to post on online forums to specifically counter the negative reviews. They are called "sock puppets."

"The schools also have been criticized for their marketing methods, which include high-pressure sales, spamming, generating advertorials and bogus review sites, and hiring sock puppets to counter-post against negative online reviews. "


 
Argosy hires people like the one above to post on online forums to specifically counter the negative reviews. They are called "sock puppets."

"The schools also have been criticized for their marketing methods, which include high-pressure sales, spamming, generating advertorials and bogus review sites, and hiring sock puppets to counter-post against negative online reviews. "



surprisingly to correct you, they're not hired. My guess is that is an actual student at Argosy. But the thing is, the student hasn't experienced the issues with Argosy's program. I was just like that at Capella at one point too. However, even if the instruction at a program may seem top notch and rigorous to you, it is important to network and interact with other individuals in your major. I really didn't know the errors in my attending Capella until interacting with others in the field and realizing that even if you subjectively view the institution as top notch, the field does not. And the trend of the field is extremely important especially when considering APA matching, internship and future
 
surprisingly to correct you, they're not hired. My guess is that is an actual student at Argosy.
i don't know. join date is the same as the post date and the user never made any other posts. the admins should check whether this user has ever signed in again, if not I would considered it a suspicious, untrustworthy post.
 
i don't know. join date is the same as the post date and the user never made any other posts. the admins should check whether this user has ever signed in again, if not I would considered it a suspicious, untrustworthy post.

You do realize how many people join an online bbs and never EVER post anything right? It's a lot. And a lot of users may not post anything til a topic of their interest comes up.

It happens all of the time.
That said my comments still stand re: user being a real Argosy Student and not being paid. Trust, if Argosy wanted someone to pay them for positive ranking, it wouldn't be on SDN...
 
You do realize how many people join an online bbs and never EVER post anything right? It's a lot. And a lot of users may not post anything til a topic of their interest comes up.

It happens all of the time.
That said my comments still stand re: user being a real Argosy Student and not being paid. Trust, if Argosy wanted someone to pay them for positive ranking, it wouldn't be on SDN...

why are you so certain of this? Argosy does pay people to go online and post in online forums, especially if there is a negative discussion to counter people's views. SDN would be a target, especially if a thread says "why is there a negative view of argosy." This is one of the reasons the US government is suing them--for illegal marketing practices. The person who posted said very vague comments and also provided complete misinformation. She also never posted before. The evidence points to a hired person.
 
why are you so certain of this? Argosy does pay people to go online and post in online forums, especially if there is a negative discussion to counter people's views. SDN would be a target, especially if a thread says "why is there a negative view of argosy." This is one of the reasons the US government is suing them--for illegal marketing practices. The person who posted said very vague comments and also provided complete misinformation. She also never posted before. The evidence points to a hired person.

so SDN would be a target versus oh I dunno a college review site that's actually meaningful...
secondly, the illegal marketing practices would be in a lot of places and represent a lot of ideas, but on a message board versus on the phone where a person would receive ACTUAL commission. Why in the world would any representative come to get paid here in a place that has a negative reputation? Common sense here would logically dictate you zero in not here but on review sites. Which, while SDN functions in a lot of ways, is not a review page.
To further clarify the illegal marketing practices, it is CSRs over the phone lying and performing any measure to ensure the student goes to the program (even harassment). I'm pretty sure if any CSR is with Argosy, they wouldn't be doing it on this community.
I repeat, that's a student; an actual student's POV of Argosy, which is glowing, but it's just the person's perspective about their experience. If it was an agent trying to get students from SDN to go to Argosy (which I believe is a joke in itself), why the heck would the post be laced with comments as if to defend the program. And while it is fair because it adds diversity to the discussion, it also shows that there should be far more interaction amongst peers just for the sake of perspective. Nothing more.

In fact, just read the first sentence of the post. That sorta defines what type of post the user submitted. It was a post to defend their school. And guess what, that's understandable. Remember, its the internet, a place where everyone defends their POV and people argue. That post was just another example of that. Same with students from Capella or any other institution that is viewed negatively.
 
so SDN would be a target versus oh I dunno a college review site that's actually meaningful...
secondly, the illegal marketing practices would be in a lot of places and represent a lot of ideas, but on a message board versus on the phone where a person would receive ACTUAL commission. Why in the world would any representative come to get paid here in a place that has a negative reputation? Common sense here would logically dictate you zero in not here but on review sites. Which, while SDN functions in a lot of ways, is not a review page.
To further clarify the illegal marketing practices, it is CSRs over the phone lying and performing any measure to ensure the student goes to the program (even harassment). I'm pretty sure if any CSR is with Argosy, they wouldn't be doing it on this community.
I repeat, that's a student; an actual student's POV of Argosy, which is glowing, but it's just the person's perspective about their experience. If it was an agent trying to get students from SDN to go to Argosy (which I believe is a joke in itself), why the heck would the post be laced with comments as if to defend the program. And while it is fair because it adds diversity to the discussion, it also shows that there should be far more interaction amongst peers just for the sake of perspective. Nothing more.

In fact, just read the first sentence of the post. That sorta defines what type of post the user submitted. It was a post to defend their school. And guess what, that's understandable. Remember, its the internet, a place where everyone defends their POV and people argue. That post was just another example of that. Same with students from Capella or any other institution that is viewed negatively.

I don't know why you are stuck on this. Neither of us knows for sure if it was a real post or someone who was paid. All i know is that argosy does PAY people to post reviews on online forums. This is an online forum and if you do a search for argosy, our forum itself pops up so these people who are posting false reviews of argosy would be interested in posting on here as well. We don't know if it was a real post, but if it was an actual person why would they post completely false information about the program (100% match rate)? Its possible. who knows. Plus, the person just posted one reply here and has not returned nor did they say anything specific about the program.
 
BTW, try searching for "argosy clinical psyd" on google. All the SDN forums come up and probably have a strong influence on whether people will enroll in this school. If people read these forums, i doubt they would enroll.
 
BTW, try searching for "argosy clinical psyd" on google. All the SDN forums come up and probably have a strong influence on whether people will enroll in this school. If people read these forums, i doubt they would enroll.

Good.

The "average" student (based on their APA-acred. match #'s) will be $150k-$200k+ in debt, and they will not be eligible to apply for the majority of posted jobs. The students that graduate from non-APA acred. programs will also not be eligible for NHSC loan repayment. How are students going to pay back their loans when they can't apply for the majority of posted jobs and they can't apply for loan repayment? I hope any possible psychology graduate student reads these threads and realizes these risks.
 
We don't know if it was a real post, but if it was an actual person why would they post completely false information about the program (100% match rate)? Its possible. who knows. Plus, the person just posted one reply here and has not returned nor did they say anything specific about the program.

probably, most likely, because they haven't experienced anything less that "quality" or from their subjective view of what "quality" represents. Is it possible that people may see it as an idealistic road to an otherwise impossible doctoral program and placing a positive emphasis on their experience? And when a person "insults" their experience, they retaliate, but don't want to continue. Just post to stir the pot or some stupid belief of defending their program versus doing work for their program.

If that sounds familiar, welcome to the internet message board. It happens all the time and they're not paid to do it. :laugh: I mean to be frank, that's what the internet is synonymous to - a bunch of idiots arguing over whose right versus whose wrong and why.

However, I do agree, we don't know why the person posted. And in lieu of that, why would the first response be to say they're being paid by Argosy to serve for recruiting? It's just about as bad as me saying it's a student. So in that, it's pretty darn ironic for you to mention that and yet continue this silly tirade. But hey, it's the internet and a bbs, I guess we are doing what we're supposed to do :idea:

Good.

The "average" student (based on their APA-acred. match #'s) will be $150k-$200k+ in debt, and they will not be eligible to apply for the majority of posted jobs. The students that graduate from non-APA acred. programs will also not be eligible for NHSC loan repayment. How are students going to pay back their loans when they can't apply for the majority of posted jobs and they can't apply for loan repayment? I hope any possible psychology graduate student reads these threads and realizes these risks.
Today 01:48 PM

This I agree with, because Argosy does use those practices. And its difficult to repay loans if you go to a program like that and Argosy.If I can take my money back from Capella University, I would too because it is deceptive - even more so than Argosy when it comes to internships. Pay someone to fricking supervise you that is a doctorate!? Come on! Then Capella wonders why they don't get APA accreditation...:mad:
 
I actually wonder why we don't have more outraged threads about Capella--I've read a lot on it and it horrifies me.
 
I'm honestly tempted to start a thread on the "Capella Experience". Yes granted, you are teaching yourself, and the students I've interacted with still struggle with proper APA citation, writing could be better, and overall the experience, while gives you some information on a foundation of clinical psychology, does not prepare you for the doctoral level learning - in a PsyD or a PhD capacity.

Well I guess I should refrain from making the claim that it doesn't prepare you for a PsyD. Because it may and some programs are even worse that are B&M. But it doesn't prepare you to really introduce research. I think that may be the problem. Further, as it has been said in this thread and several other threads, APA match rate could be better. And it's difficult to pay the loans back with a Capella degree...

I think the most dubious anecdote is the one I mentioned in my previous posting. In fact, I am really tempted to open a new topic about Capella University if any previous threads weren't locked.
 
Please do! I actually have a lot of questions about it because someone I know is getting a PsyD there and I just can't fathom how the training can be adequate.
 
I know every time I open Gmail it tells me I should go to Capella.
 
Depending on what you are planning on doing once you graduate - looking at the match rates should only be part of your decision making process. You should be checking to make sure they are APA accredited and you should also concern yourself with what the schools EPPP pass rate is. Accredited schools just recently had to start posting this information. More and more, jobs are requiring that you have taken and passed this national exam. According to the ASPPB's website Argosy University - Chicago Campus has only a 70.3% first time pass rate, Tampa - 80% and Washington DC is at 67.5%.

A side note...A colleague told me that the parent company that owns Argosy Univ also owns two EPPP preparation companies (AATBS and Academic Review). If this is true I find that interesting not mention a conflict of interest.
 
Yeah, I was looking at Argosy Twin Cities' stats yesterday. They listed their match rate last year as 98%, but then had a separate category for match to APA-accredited internships. It was 32%.
 
Okay, I was just dicking around while stuck on a 25+ minute phone hold to the city and googled "should I get a psyd?"--sort of a magic 8 ball style question (for those of you who remember those plastic oracles). First thing that came up was this horribly written mess (Argosy logo planted firmly in the upper right hand corner of the webpage), with some fabulous quotes:

"Psychology students are now much less likely to choose a Ph.D as a knee jerk reaction than 10 years ago."

"The PhD of psychology is more generalized than than that of a Psy D. They are more holistic in the sense that they don't just focus on clinical training. If you seek out a PhD in psychology, you will have a background that qualifies you to do research, become an educator, and also practice clinical counseling. This is best suited to people who are maybe not sure exactly what they want to do, but know that they enjoy research and would like a wide variety of work to choose from in the field. The Psy.D on the other hand, is a specialized degree."

http://directory.leadmaverick.com/Helping-Psychology/DallasFort-WorthArlington/TX/10/5808/index.aspx
 
This is a poorly written article full of inaccuracies, typos, and self-contradiction.
 
Gee, I wonder why they don't allow comments.
 
This is a poorly written article full of inaccuracies, typos, and self-contradiction.

Yes, I enjoyed it immensely, though it didn't sustain me through the rest of my phone hold to the city. Favorite phrase: "The PhD of psychology":laugh:
 
Wow, this thread is still going? I graduated with my masters degree from Argosy Schaumburg Illinois back in 2008. I decided that the PsyD program wasn't worth it. I wanted to work right away and not end up with 300K in debt. I now work in Massachusetts and am licensed. I have a job and love it. Nobody seemed to care about what university I attended. :) I don't make a lot of money right now, but can live comfortably. My goal is private practice within the next couple of years. I have a considerable amount of debt since Argosy was pricey, but am on an income sensitive plan.

If I could go back in time, I think I would pick a different university. Don't get me wrong. I learned a lot at Argosy and there were some awesome professors at the Schaumburg campus. With the knowledge I have now, I would prefer something that wasn't free standing or for profit.
 
Here's an interesting article that came out today about the predatory practices rampant throughout all the schools Education Management Corp. owns, including Argosy. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/14/goldman-sachs-for-profit-college_n_997409.html?page=1

It also goes into detail about why they've been getting sued. This is just depressing, horrible stuff.

Oof. I couldn't force myself to read much past this:

"You'd probe to find a weakness," said Brian Klein, a former admissions employee who worked for three years at Argosy University Online, one of four major colleges operated by EDMC. "You basically take all that failure and all those bad decisions, and you spin it around and put it right back in their face as guilt, to go to this ****ty university and run up all of this debt."
 
Oof. I couldn't force myself to read much past this:

"You'd probe to find a weakness," said Brian Klein, a former admissions employee who worked for three years at Argosy University Online, one of four major colleges operated by EDMC. "You basically take all that failure and all those bad decisions, and you spin it around and put it right back in their face as guilt, to go to this ****ty university and run up all of this debt."

Yeah, it's definitely a big lengthy... here are some highlights I found particularly disturbing:

"The so-called 50 percent rule, which required half of all students to be at a ground campus in order for a school to be eligible for federal aid, had been put in place to discourage dubious distance education programs that offered subpar learning. Boehner helped to nix the rule in a budget agreement that took effect in early 2006, allowing schools to expand enrollments -- and revenues -- without having to invest in additional ground campuses."

"The company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission at the time laid out some of the attractive aspects of investing in higher education: 'Given the advanced payment of tuition and fees which is customary for the post-secondary education industry, our working capital is on average a source of cash,' the filings argued. The expansion of online programs also offered 'an attractive avenue for growth that utilizes many of our existing education curricula while requiring less capital expenditures relative to campus-based expansion.'" (Goldman Sachs is one of the three private equity firms to buy their stocks up, by the way)

It then goes into how Todd S. Nelson, the former president of the University of Phoenix company(their big rival), started running Ed. Management Corp. Under his management, UoPhoenix had to pay a $9.8 million settlement with the government for predatory practices.

"Employees who had worked at the company prior to Nelson's arrival noticed a distinct shift once he came on board.
'It was an absolute feeding frenzy,' said Kathie Bittel, who worked as a recruiter at Argosy University the first year after the company went private under Goldman, when Nelson came on board. 'They were on us every minute of the day. We had managers and directors who were just literally circling the pods, listening to every word that was spoken. I swear I thought they were going to wear out the carpeting.'"


"A current admissions employee at South University online, who declined to be identified for fear of retribution, recalled a single mother who was worried about taking out student loans, since she was barely able to pay her utility bills. He figured she wasn't prepared for classes, but his manager told him to turn the situation around on the recruit, asking if she always wanted to be struggling to make ends meet, and implying that a college degree could change things.


All admissions employees interviewed by The Huffington Post described the widely used method of "finding the pain" in prospective students, a tactic employees said was meant to exploit recruits' past failures in careers or education.
A sales call handout obtained by The Huffington Post describes the first three steps when talking to a new sales lead: '1. Build em up! ... 2. Break Em Down! Find the PAIN! ... 3. Build em Up!'"


"The scales are so tipped; these people have no way of possibly making a good decision," Lawrence said. "It was like we were used car salesmen. We would basically psychologically manipulate people into doing this. My master's was in clinical psychology, and it was like I was using my powers for evil."


Even recruiters' job titles were intended to be misleading, employees said. An entry-level admissions employee was known as an "assistant director of admissions," a title that lent authority to someone trying to close a sales deal.
"Remember, they don't know you're in a call center," said Klein, the former Argosy admissions adviser. "They think you're at a college, up in an ivory tower, sitting back in a tweed vest with a pipe."


"They're wolves; they're hunters," said the current employee. "They have one objective: They're there to make money and get students."


How the recruiters get paid:

An updated copy of the matrix from 2010, which was developed after Nelson arrived and provided to The Huffington Post, shows a chart with the number of students on the left side, and corresponding salary ranges to the right, based on "quality factors" ranging from "unsatisfactory" to "outstanding." The vast majority of the salary increases come from student enrollment numbers.
For example, a recruiter who enrolled a low number of students could only make up to $35,000, even with an "outstanding" quality rating. Yet someone who enrolled the highest range of students but received an "unsatisfactory" quality rating could receive a $73,000 salary; an "outstanding" rating would net the same employee a salary above $114,000.


About their current lawsuit:
"We will not train or coach our staff to 'dig for the pain' or to manipulate the student's previous misfortune," the document reads. "Instead of dwelling on a past that the student can't change, we train our admissions representatives to facilitate a conversation that considers the Consequence of moving forward without the education."
Instead of "overcoming objections," the new term is "resolving student concerns"; instead of making a "close" on a sales call, a recruiter is now "gaining commitment."
The Justice Department lawsuit could have grave consequences for the future of EDMC. The false claims suit argues that because EDMC violated the recruiter compensation ban, the company unlawfully took funds from the federal government.
False claims suits can technically recover three times the amount of fraudulent claims made to the government. The complaint notes that EDMC has claimed $11 billion in federal money since 2003, meaning that if all $11 billion were found to be fraudulently claimed, the government could recover up to $33 billion, plus additional penalties of up to $11,000 for each government claim, according to the Justice Department.




And... their reaction: "This notion that somehow private equity folks acquired the company and changed the culture and turned it into a boiler-room mentality is just nonsense," Leeds said. "We're people who take this stuff really seriously. We have two former secretaries of education on my board of advisers. Do you think they would be associated with people who would ever think about or be capable of creating a boiler room? It's nuts."
-------------
"The Company's focus has always been on student success, including under Mr. Nelson's leadership," a spokeswoman said in a prepared statement. "Certainly, the Company does not condone unethical recruitment practices. If any such activity were brought to our attention of our organization, immediate corrective action (up to and including termination of violating employee) would be taken, as per our Code of Business Ethics and Conduct."




......


Sorry, this is still a lot of info, but I thought it gives more context into just how problematic the for-profit school system is... we can argue it as much as we want. The facts are clear that they care ONLY about money. Even if the brick and mortar schools had some redeeming qualities, one can only assume that as they continue to focus on the more profitable online alternatives, those places will diminish in quality even more. The author of this article guesses that they will settle this lawsuit out of court, since more claims of this nature never amount to much, so I think the real risk to the company is pretty low. It's really just sickening... they have the perfect scheme here... get students to take all the risk, since the federal loan money goes directly to the school, and then let the student take the fall for it when they can't get a job to pay for them! UGH! I think it's been stated before, but the rates of students at these school who default on their loans is increasing... Truly horrific!
 
Oy. After all these years I figure out what the little +" symbol does...

Anyway, thanks to athenax for the details of the article. For me, this raises questions about predatory lending and loan forgiveness (being discussed on a separate thread) or what could be called a student "bailout" program.
 
Okay, I was just dicking around while stuck on a 25+ minute phone hold to the city and googled "should I get a psyd?"--sort of a magic 8 ball style question (for those of you who remember those plastic oracles). First thing that came up was this horribly written mess (Argosy logo planted firmly in the upper right hand corner of the webpage), with some fabulous quotes:

"Psychology students are now much less likely to choose a Ph.D as a knee jerk reaction than 10 years ago."

"The PhD of psychology is more generalized than than that of a Psy D. They are more holistic in the sense that they don't just focus on clinical training. If you seek out a PhD in psychology, you will have a background that qualifies you to do research, become an educator, and also practice clinical counseling. This is best suited to people who are maybe not sure exactly what they want to do, but know that they enjoy research and would like a wide variety of work to choose from in the field. The Psy.D on the other hand, is a specialized degree."

http://directory.leadmaverick.com/Helping-Psychology/DallasFort-WorthArlington/TX/10/5808/index.aspx

HAHAHA PhD people are not sure what they want to do. Yes, indeed, this is why they spend the last 4 years preparing for applications.

I think the word "foreclosure" in the dictionary has an Argosy banner right next to it.

I think they even accepted kids 2 weeks before the year starts.
 
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