PhD/PsyD Why is the PsyD degree so watered down?

[NeuroObsessed]

As a “professional degree” why are there so many different programs under the PsyD degree? I understand having PsyDs in Clinical, Counseling, or School psychology (although I feel like it’d be best to just have a PsyD in one overarching discipline, similar to how every other professional degree is specific to their overall field, MD in medicine, PharmD in pharmacy, OD in optometry, DDS in dentistry, etc.) as those are the normal, accredited eligible, pathways that lead to licensure and practice as a psychologist. I’m more so asking about programs with PsyDs in specializations such as sport psychology PsyD, forensic psychology PsyD, marriage and family therapy PsyD, etc. Typically to be actual psychologists in any of these specialties, you do your broad training and then gain specific training in these specialties in your clinical years, internship, or fellowship. Unless my understanding of licensure is wrong, these programs won’t prepare you for licensure as a psychologist (for the most part?) as they don’t cover the broad range of topics and clinical training required to be psychologists. I would understand more so if these were PhD programs similar to how we have social psychology and developmental psychology programs, which are non-licensure eligible programs and are non-practicing disciplines.

Are schools allowed to just tack on any degree title before a program? Can any school just start a program with an MD degree in sport neurology or a PharmD in psychiatric pharmacy? Do things like this go unregulated, and then essentially allow for schools to bait whoever into attending their program?

Just some random thoughts I get when I look at the educational world, other healthcare education pathways, and the direction of psychology as a practicing healthcare field.

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[WisNeuro]

Marketing and money are the only reasons here when it comes to these programs in psych.

 

[NeuroObsessed]

Marketing and money are the only reasons here when it comes to these programs in psych.

Why aren’t there attempts to do similar programs in other fields? Is it simply because it is more expensive to start a medical related program in some random specialty like a sport neurology MD, or is it because it’s more regulated and protected by the government and AMA?

I understand it’s probably a lot cheaper to start a psychology program than a medicine or dental program

 

[PsychSupreme]

Why aren’t there attempts to do similar programs in other fields? Is it simply because it is more expensive to start a medical related program in some random specialty like a sport neurology MD, or is it because it’s more regulated and protected by the government and AMA?

I understand it’s probably a lot cheaper to start a psychology program than a medicine or dental program

My assumption is that degrees in medicine and pharmacy inherently imply "this leads to practice" (since medicine and pharmacy are practices), whereas "psychology" does not, since it sort of uniquely exists at the intersection of "academic-only" and practicing. Yes, one would think the "PsyD" part of the degree implies "this leads to practice," and perhaps it should imply that, but in reality it seems more to imply "this is a psychology degree you can get without doing too much rigorous research work (with some notable exceptions)..."

 

[PsyDr]

There are absolutely non licensure track MD and DO programs. There is next to no market for them, because some states have outlawed using the credentials if you attended those schools and/or are not licensed.

But I think you’re being biased. There are PhDs in school psychology, counseling psychology, etc from very reputable places.

 

[NeuroObsessed]

My assumption is that degrees in medicine and pharmacy inherently imply "this leads to practice" (since medicine and pharmacy are practices), whereas "psychology" does not, since it sort of uniquely exists at the intersection of "academic-only" and practicing. Yes, one would think the "PsyD" part of the degree implies "this leads to practice," and perhaps it should imply that, but in reality it seems more to imply "this is a psychology degree you can get without doing too much rigorous research work (with some notable exceptions)..."

I do see where the subject itself leaves the meaning of the degree sort of open ended. Especially with two different degree options, the PhD and PsyD that lead to licensure. It also makes me wonder, will there ever be a middle ground, “this is the perfect amount of research and clinical training to make the perfect psychologist,” and then have a single degree type, probably the PsyD, to become a practicing psychologist. I mean other professions like pharmacy, in 2006 out of the blue said in, more or less words, that PharmD is would be THE official degree to become a pharmacist.

 

[NeuroObsessed]

There are absolutely non licensure track MD and DO programs. There is next to no market for them, because some states have outlawed using the credentials of you attended those schools and/or are not licensed.

But I think you’re being biased. There are PhDs in school psychology, counseling psychology, etc from very reputable places.

That is an interesting point, I had no idea there were MD/DO degrees out there that weren’t specifically in medicine or in preparation to practice medicine. I knew people could forego residency because they didn’t want to practice and instead do research or something, but they still have their clinical background to pursue residency if they choose to. I had a professor in undergrad who had a PsyD in one of the non-licensure eligible fields, who was essentially doing “coaching”, so it’s interesting to hear how non-licensure MD/DO degrees are regulated or outlawed. I wonder if psychology will ever clean things up. We seem to have trouble with even regulating or removing accreditation of certain programs. We still have issues with accredited diploma mills with 0-25% eppp pass rates running wild.

I know PhDs exist in the main specialties of clinical, counseling, and school psychology, and I also understand that PhDs are typically still the highest quality programs in terms of student outcomes. My question was more so regarding why a “professional degree”, the PsyD, that was originally created to increase the amount of practicing psychologists is being used for “psychology specialties” that essentially won’t be increasing the practicing psychology workforce. I did say I would understand if these were PhDs as there are PhDs in a bunch of things that don’t necessarily represent a professional licensure practice like biology or chemistry. Like if UCLA wanted to start a PhD in Sport Psychology, that they weren’t marketing to prepare people in the practice of sport psychology, to teach people about the psychological abilities, differences, etc of athletes, I’d be all for that. I guess the only real answer why these PsyDs exist is money, as usual when it comes to most PsyD related things.

 

[Sanman]

Pretty much. From what I have seen this happens two ways:

1. An exisiting PhD program loses its funding sources or sees the PsyD route as a way to better balance the university budget (students are paying rather than being paid after all).

2. Just a quick opportunity for a money grab. A marriage and family PsyD seems like that. You'll get plenty of folks wanting to call themselves "Dr" who already have an MFT license.

 

[counselor2b]

This also exists in the nursing world. The DNP degree can lead to becoming an advanced practice nurse, such as a NP or CRNA but the DNP can also be leadership or informatics focused and not make you eligible for advanced licensure.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Also, some of the various program tracks are license-eligible and some aren't (e.g., a Clinical Psych Psy.D. program may offer various tracks for neuropsychology, sports psychology, or whatever else, that all provide the requisite generalist coursework for licensure). For the non-licensable degrees, as was said, it seems to largely be a money grab. Much like the various online doctorates you see advertised on TV. Even a lot the licensable tracks come across that way.