Why is there a stigma attached to wanting to own "fancy cars" on SDN?

Kurk

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As I browse the forums, I'm picking up an anti-materialistic vibe pretty much anywhere money is mentioned which is understandable. What really bothers me is that people always go after cars.

Examples of such threads:
1.) Should I go into medicine for the money?
A: If your plan is to drive fancy cars, no.

2.) Good car choices for a medical resident?
A: Toyotas, Hondas, and Subarus are all good choices. Stay away from European cars.

It really annoys me how people associate "new money" with European sports/luxury cars as if the only purpose for these cars is to show off how rich you are.

I'm a long-time car enthusiast, and don't find anything wrong with wanting to own a Porsche or lower end Ferrari as a physician. I DON'T, on the other-hand, expect to live in a mansion, wear a Rolex watch, own a private jet, etc. I don't know why you have to always associate expensive cars with an expensive lifestyle.

I actually frown upon those who daily drive Lambos just because they have the money to; my philosophy says that you shouldn't drive such a car if you don't truly understand its mechanics or how to drive it.

Sorry if this isn't too medically related; I just had to release some steam after constantly seeing people speak negatively about these things.

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I mean if you have the money to blow on maintenance and upkeep, no one is stopping you
 
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I mean if you have the money to blow on maintenance and upkeep, no one is stopping you
See, you just did it now. I really don't understand why. I wouldn't criticize the hobbies and interests you pursue to relieve stress; what gives you the right to criticize mine?
 
See, you just did it now. I really don't understand why. I wouldn't criticize the hobbies and interests you pursue to relieve stress; what gives you the right to criticize mine?
Um the lower end Ferraris aren't cheap. And just getting parts for them will be more than the monthly income of many doctors. And so yeah that's a screaming red flag that you are focused on being a high wealth individual, a focus that shouldn't be driving your career choice for a career such as medicine. If you said you wanted to fix up used Chevys that's fine. These days most doctors drive relatively modest cars to their relatively modest homes.
 
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See, you just did it now. I really don't understand why. I wouldn't criticize the hobbies and interests you pursue to relieve stress; what gives you the right to criticize mine?
My hobbies cost hundreds of dollars a year, not tens of thousands. Thats the budget of today's Doctor. and that's why you are putting yourself up for criticism as going down this road for the wrong reasons.
 
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Um the lower end Ferraris aren't cheap. And just getting parts for them will be more than the monthly income of many doctors. And so yeah that's a screaming red flag that you are focused on being a high wealth individual, a focus that shouldn't be driving your career choice for a career such as medicine. If you said you wanted to fix up used Chevys that's fine. These days most doctors drive relatively modest cars to their relatively modest homes.
With due respect,
1.) I thought I had made it clear that I don't plant to live opulently. I would be content in <$300,000 house in a rural area; this would mean (keeping in mind that there is a long road ahead of me) that I would be providing health-care in an under-served community while also gaining the freedom I want in the country (e.g being able to have a separate outbuilding for the multiple vehicles you may or may not approve of).

2.) Reasons for going into medicine (I've carefully thought about my reasons for a while and here's what I got): 60% for the secure source of money/job security; 25% because I have a keen interest in biology/science/health and value it above everything else (even money); 15% for status.

3.) I'm not going to daily drive a Ferrari. (Now that I think about it, since physicians are so busy, the only real time they have to enjoy themselves and unwind is on the drive to and from work so maybe it should be daily driven lol).
My hobbies cost hundreds of dollars a year, not tens of thousands. Thats the budget of today's Doctor. and that's why you are putting yourself up for criticism as going down this road for the wrong reasons.
Owning one Ferrari can be an expensive proposition to many, but yearly maintenance is not in the tens of thousands of dollars a year range when driven sparingly; that's for sure.
This would not fit in the budget of today's PCP with a family, I agree.
I do not plan to be the average PCP. Hypothetically speaking (again not to make it seem like as if this is easy to do), I would bust my tail to become a specialist and start a private practice in said rural area. I would not have a family, but would rather invest all my time into my profession and spend what money and little leftover time I have on my few hobbies which I genuinely enjoy. So far, busting my tail has been working out very nicely in highschool; I hope to continue it in college and we'll see where we go from there.

Btw, what does "old Chevy" really mean? I like Corvettes, would be socially acceptable to spend Ferrari money on a nice classic stingray from Mecum? Then it would actually be generating money sitting in the garage.
 
See, you just did it now. I really don't understand why. I wouldn't criticize the hobbies and interests you pursue to relieve stress; what gives you the right to criticize mine?

You can feel free to criticize my hobbies (not like I have time to have that many at this point in my training) - it's a free country and it won't affect me at all. Honestly, I don't think you grasp the concept of paying $250K+ for a car. That is a house. Once you're making $3+ million/yr, then Ferraris are a legitimate "hobby". Cars in general are just ridiculous depreciating assets and thus one would usually wants to minimize how much money is being sunk into them.

I eventually may switch over to the German cars (like an Audi) once I'm in a stable financial point in my life but that's the extent of it - a $50-60K car. I can't figure out why you think you'll be able to make enough money to fuel your ambitions of grandeur being a doctor. That's what the financial sector is for. But hey, maybe you'll be the unicorn earning those top doctor dollars in which case SDN may actually have been giving the wrong idea. To each his own.
 
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With due respect,
1.) I thought I had made it clear that I don't plant to live opulently. I would be content in <$300,000 house in a rural area; this would mean (keeping in mind that there is a long road ahead of me) that I would be providing health-care in an under-served community while also gaining the freedom I want in the country (e.g being able to have a separate outbuilding for the multiple vehicles you may or may not approve of).

2.) Reasons for going into medicine (I've carefully thought about my reasons for a while and here's what I got): 60% for the secure source of money/job security; 25% because I have a keen interest in biology/science/health and value it above everything else (even money); 15% for status.

3.) I'm not going to daily drive a Ferrari. (Now that I think about it, since physicians are so busy, the only real time they have to enjoy themselves and unwind is on the drive to and from work so maybe it should be daily driven lol).

Owning one Ferrari can be an expensive proposition to many, but yearly maintenance is not in the tens of thousands of dollars a year range when driven sparingly; that's for sure.
This would not fit in the budget of today's PCP with a family, I agree.
I do not plan to be the average PCP. Hypothetically speaking (again not to make it seem like as if this is easy to do), I would bust my tail to become a specialist and start a private practice in said rural area. I would not have a family, but would rather invest all my time into my profession and spend what money and little leftover time I have on my few hobbies which I genuinely enjoy. So far, busting my tail has been working out very nicely in highschool; I hope to continue it in college and we'll see where we go from there.

Btw, what does "old Chevy" really mean? I like Corvettes, would be socially acceptable to spend Ferrari money on a nice classic stingray from Mecum? Then it would actually be generating money sitting in the garage.
First your 60%, 25%, 15% split is horrible-- you just proved my point. This isn't a good job if you are doing it mostly about money or job security, and bio/science is the foundation but plays little role in the actual job. If your split isn't more like 95% enjoy the job function and 5% the things you've listed combined, don't go down this road. It's not for you. The money and job security are not what you think and there's a lot less science involved.
Second, when I said old Chevy (NOT Corvette, not in your price range -- think Impala) I meant something circa 1980s-90s, because you can get parts cheap -- you can be all in a few grand and work on it for years. That's the kind of hobby you'll afford as a young doctor these days. Not a Ferrari.
 
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If you break it down, you'll start to see why you really don't have as much money as you think you would. I'll use California and Emergency Medicine as an example since that's what I know best.

Average annual salary for an ED doc = $220,000
California state income tax = 12.3% in the highest areas ~ $27,000
Federal income tax for a single filer = 33% ~ $89,000
Average annual malpractice in California for an ER doc ~ $20,000
Average cost of living in the greater Los Angeles area ~ $3000/month ~ $36,000

This leaves you with about $48,000 for the rest of the year.
Factor in the cost of a low end Ferrari at $200,000, even at 0% interest on a 60 month loan, you're paying $3333/month ~ $40,000/year
Average price to insure a new Ferrari ~ $10,000
$48,000 - $50000 = -$2000


You'll probably make the argument that you won't want to go into Emergency med or live in California, but realize that even these general numbers will show you that a Ferrari is initially way out of the affordable range for a physician. After you've been practicing for upwards of 30 years and you've been saving steadily, then yes, you can probably get a Ferarri, but no physician straight out of med school swimming in $300k of debt should even think about it.
 
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OP, do you plan to have a family at some point? Kids? Spouses don't always agree with pouring what's left of your disposable income into a purely selfish pursuit. And it might be hard to imagine this now, but with a family you will at some point start to feel guilty about spending money on yourself when you could be saving up to take the family on a nice vacation.

Look, I'm a car enthusiast myself. Both my wife and I are subspecialist attending physicians. We live comfortably, but we spend ~$50K per year on daycare for two kids. It's like paying college tuition in many cities today. And I still have loans to repay, and a mortgage, two car payments, and my 401K isn't doing so great, so we squirrel away everything we can for retirement and maybe someday a bigger house. I used to have dreams about owning a 911, but even if I could afford it, it doesn't have enough doors, and I certainly can't justify a "weekend car". So now I dream about owning a BMW 3-series. But that's still a dream because it's too expensive to justify the cost, and buying used is a risk because I require supreme daily reliability and I don't have time to wrench myself.

It's great to have dreams, and maybe you'll end up as a single neurosurgeon living in rural Arkansas and you can buy yourself a used Ferrari. But for most people life gets in the way, and it gets harder and harder to structure your life around trivial pursuits.
 
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I'd recommend 55-57 Chevies, actually. With Crager S/S mags.


Second, when I said old Chevy (NOT Corvette, not in your price range -- think Impala) I meant something circa 1980s-90s, because you can get parts cheap -- you can be all in a few grand and work on it for years. That's the kind of hobby you'll afford as a young doctor these days. Not a Ferrari.
 
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OP, do you plan to have a family at some point? Kids? Spouses don't always agree with pouring what's left of your disposable income into a purely selfish pursuit. And it might be hard to imagine this now, but with a family you will at some point start to feel guilty about spending money on yourself when you could be saving up to take the family on a nice vacation.

Look, I'm a car enthusiast myself. Both my wife and I are subspecialist attending physicians. We live comfortably, but we spend ~$50K per year on daycare for two kids. It's like paying college tuition in many cities today. And I still have loans to repay, and a mortgage, two car payments, and my 401K isn't doing so great, so we squirrel away everything we can for retirement and maybe someday a bigger house. I used to have dreams about owning a 911, but even if I could afford it, it doesn't have enough doors, and I certainly can't justify a "weekend car". So now I dream about owning a BMW 3-series. But that's still a dream because it's too expensive to justify the cost, and buying used is a risk because I require supreme daily reliability and I don't have time to wrench myself.

It's great to have dreams, and maybe you'll end up as a single neurosurgeon living in rural Arkansas and you can buy yourself a used Ferrari. But for most people life gets in the way, and it gets harder and harder to structure your life around trivial pursuits.
If you read my response to LawtoDoc you would see that I have already stated that I don't have plans to start a family. As cynical as this sounds, I would consider having a family to be a much more expensive hobby than owning a nice car. The average cost of raising a child now is what, close to $300,000 per child for a upper-middle family? Coupled with the problem of overpopulation (I know it's not politically correct to address it but I don't care about political correctness) and my own personal values, it would not be in my best interest to have kids.

Medical school loans are a major issue, I get it. That being said, I plan to live with my parents until the end of residency so that I can apply my full resident salary to quickly paying off the debt. They would actually prefer I do this.
First your 60%, 25%, 15% split is horrible-- you just proved my point. This isn't a good job if you are doing it mostly about money or job security, and bio/science is the foundation but plays little role in the actual job. If your split isn't more like 95% enjoy the job function and 5% the things you've listed combined, don't go down this road. It's not for you. The money and job security are not what you think and there's a lot less science involved.
Second, when I said old Chevy (NOT Corvette, not in your price range -- think Impala) I meant something circa 1980s-90s, because you can get parts cheap -- you can be all in a few grand and work on it for years. That's the kind of hobby you'll afford as a young doctor these days. Not a Ferrari.
My reasons for wanting to pursue medicine are ultimately between me and a higher deity I may or may not believe in. I understand that you don't agree with my reasoning, but I highly doubt that every doctor out there pursued the field purely because they're altruistic. My favorite part is that the free market does not care for the reasons one might pursue medicine. On a side note, I just want you guys to clarify something for me: The demand for physicians in the US is skyrocketing (especially in rural areas), Medical schools are becoming increasingly difficult to get into, yet the salaries of physicians are dropping and work hours are rising? Does this sound correct?
You'll probably make the argument that you won't want to go into Emergency med or live in California, but realize that even these general numbers will show you that a Ferrari is initially way out of the affordable range for a physician. After you've been practicing for upwards of 30 years and you've been saving steadily, then yes, you can probably get a Ferarri, but no physician straight out of med school swimming in $300k of debt should even think about it.
Yes, I will make the argument that I don't wish to live in an urban setting.

Also I want to throw this out there; I know a 40 year old orthopedic surgeon on the other hand, who trained hard, set up his practice, stayed single, worked very hard, bought a house with 6 garages and now has a

Ferrari 575m
Aston Martin DB9
Porsche GT2
Range RoverSupercharger
Cooper Works Mini
and a golf cart.

This man and Ben Carson are my two main inspirations.
I'm also hoping that the Republicans win. The death of Obamacare and lower taxes would be a delightful combination.
 
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Cars in general are just ridiculous depreciating assets and thus one would usually wants to minimize how much money is being sunk into them.
Ever heard of collecting classic cars? If you know the car market, it's easy to purchase a car you can enjoy time to time while it increases in value. Almost like money sitting in the bank with interest.
 
Yes, I will make the argument that I don't wish to live in an urban setting.

Also I want to throw this out there; I know a 40 year old orthopedic surgeon on the other hand, who trained hard, set up his practice, stayed single, worked very hard, bought a house with 6 garages and now has a

Ferrari 575m
Aston Martin DB9
Porsche GT2
Range RoverSupercharger
Cooper Works Mini
and a golf cart.

This man and Ben Carson are my two main inspirations.
I'm also hoping that the Republicans win. The death of Obamacare and lower taxes would be a delightful combination.

Questions you should be asking include: what other assets do these men have? What are they investing in? If you are strictly a practicing physician with no investments, even living in a rural area, it will be a long time after you've established your practice before you'll be able to afford something like a Ferrari. Consider if you start your own practice - now you're talking paying employees and covering overhead cost. Then part of your income goes into recouping startup cost. No one's saying that you won't be able to get an exotic car at some point in your career, we're just saying that realistically, it's going to be a long long time before you'll be able to.
 
Questions you should be asking include: what other assets do these men have? What are they investing in? If you are strictly a practicing physician with no investments, even living in a rural area, it will be a long time after you've established your practice before you'll be able to afford something like a Ferrari. Consider if you start your own practice - now you're talking paying employees and covering overhead cost. Then part of your income goes into recouping startup cost. No one's saying that you won't be able to get an exotic car at some point in your career, we're just saying that realistically, it's going to be a long long time before you'll be able to.
Yep. I plan to minor in finance for this reason. Doesn't mean I'll be a successful stock investor, but at least I'll be a step ahead when it comes to starting a business.
 
Why not consider something like pharmacy or physician assistants? Far less time in school, far less debt coming out, more immediate income without residency, and much more time to pursue business endeavors.

Consider this: Assuming you want to be on the high end and go for something lile Urology/Ortho/plastics etc. You're looking at 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, 7 years of residency.

As a pharmacist, you can get into programs like UOP in California which have a joint Bs/pharmd program - 5 years and you're working. Work in a rural area like Yuma, Arizona for 4 years afterwards and they'll cover your school loans. You'll have 10 years of income in the time it'd take for you to become a doc. You're much more likely to get your Ferrari sooner going that route.
 
Why not consider something like pharmacy or physician assistants? Far less time in school, far less debt coming out, more immediate income without residency, and much more time to pursue business endeavors.

Consider this: Assuming you want to be on the high end and go for something lile Urology/Ortho/plastics etc. You're looking at 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, 7 years of residency.

As a pharmacist, you can get into programs like UOP in California which have a joint Bs/pharmd program - 5 years and you're working. Work in a rural area like Yuma, Arizona for 4 years afterwards and they'll cover your school loans. You'll have 10 years of income in the time it'd take for you to become a doc. You're much more likely to get your Ferrari sooner going that route.

but then the OP also wants the prestige of the MD degree :arghh:
 
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Right now you're fanaticizing, "and don't find anything wrong with wanting to own a Porsche or lower end Ferrari as a physician." Well, reality has its way... Ponder this: you show up at the hospital staff parking lot in your new Porsche (taking up two spots, as you've parked semi-sideways)-- and the subject of the day's gossip will be what? Then think about when you're at a stop light and you look over at the Camry and wave to your patient of whom you just charged $45,000 to replace a hip.

Etc.

I like cars too, I have the classic Chevy alluded to above. Fun is one thing, spending cash on vanity is another.
 
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There ain't nothing wrong with wanting that coin. No way I'm going through this malarky without a high paying job at the other end. I'll resort to fisticuffs with anyone who says that will somehow diminish me as a physician.

WITH THAT SAID. If 75% of your motivations to become a physician are money and power...
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1) Those motivations are not good enough to go through all of this when there are waaaaaaaaay easier paths to making a quick buck.
2) This isn't the 90's and they're never coming back.

 
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Why not consider something like pharmacy or physician assistants? Far less time in school, far less debt coming out, more immediate income without residency, and much more time to pursue business endeavors.

Consider this: Assuming you want to be on the high end and go for something lile Urology/Ortho/plastics etc. You're looking at 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, 7 years of residency.

As a pharmacist, you can get into programs like UOP in California which have a joint Bs/pharmd program - 5 years and you're working. Work in a rural area like Yuma, Arizona for 4 years afterwards and they'll cover your school loans. You'll have 10 years of income in the time it'd take for you to become a doc. You're much more likely to get your Ferrari sooner going that route.
I will continue to keep such alternatives in the back of my head, however I live to work, and 15% of my reason for wanting to go into medicine is for the status and prestige. Additionally, pharmacists and PAs don't have the same autonomy doctors can have (which I really do value).
 
Right now you're fanaticizing, "and don't find anything wrong with wanting to own a Porsche or lower end Ferrari as a physician." Well, reality has its way... Ponder this: you show up at the hospital staff parking lot in your new Porsche (taking up two spots, as you've parked semi-sideways)-- and the subject of the day's gossip will be what? Then think about when you're at a stop light and you look over at the Camry and wave to your patient of whom you just charged $45,000 to replace a hip.

Etc.

I like cars too, I have the classic Chevy alluded to above. Fun is one thing, spending cash on vanity is another.
Driving an exotic car does not necessarily equate to driving/parking like an idiot. Believe me, I know what you're talking about. My CNP mom brings up all the time how she's sometimes embarrassed to drive a 5 year old VW Tiguan because the physicians she works with drive Chevys and Hondas.
As for the opinions of other co-workers and patients on the type of car I drive, I honestly couldn't care less (with exceptions). In fact, I might even consider getting a custom plate that says "Dr. MYNAME" just be loud and proud.
Yes, I am fantasizing.
1) Those motivations are not good enough to go through all of this when there are waaaaaaaaay easier paths to making a quick buck.
If it gets me through the grueling nights of studying etc., then I believe those motivations are good enough.

I'm open to suggestions if you believe there are alternative ways to achieve a stable $200,000+ income.

2) This isn't the 90's and they're never coming back.
In what aspects? Most of the physician compensation graphs I've looked at seem to rise up until 2008 when Obamacare was introduced and then start to decline. It seems to be a matter of who gets the office.
 
Ever heard of collecting classic cars? If you know the car market, it's easy to purchase a car you can enjoy time to time while it increases in value. Almost like money sitting in the bank with interest.

Of course I have. Hell, if I had the time, I'd love to get some of the classic american muscle cars of the '60s-'70s (something like a '69 Mustang GT would be sick). Now when you say purchase - do you mean buying pristine condition cars or restoring. Because restoring is quite cheap (but time consuming) while buying super nice classics is a pretty ridiculously expensive endeavor until you are quite financially solvent.
 
Of course I have. Hell, if I had the time, I'd love to get some of the classic american muscle cars of the '60s-'70s (something like a '69 Mustang GT would be sick). Now when you say purchase - do you mean buying pristine condition cars or restoring. Because restoring is quite cheap (but time consuming) while buying super nice classics is a pretty ridiculously expensive endeavor until you are quite financially solvent.
Restoring is obviously preferable but like you said time and money consuming. Buying pristine doesn't necessarily mean you have to break the bank. I'm thinking like C3 Corvettes now-a-days.
 
I have a European car... and I am d**k broke! Stupid thing breaks constantly... will never buy one again!
:(
 
If it gets me through the grueling nights of studying etc., then I believe those motivations are good enough.
Welp clearly you're not going to listen to the countless people on countless threads here who know not believe. You'll grow up and see. Good luck to ya.

Also, medicine ain't got nothing on the upward mobility of business.
 
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I have a European car... and I am d**k broke! Stupid thing breaks constantly... will never buy one again!
:(

Japanese is the way to go until you got the bread to get those fancy toys
 
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My reasons for wanting to pursue medicine are ultimately between me and a higher deity I may or may not believe in. I understand that you don't agree with my reasoning, but I highly doubt that every doctor out there pursued the field purely because they're altruistic. My favorite part is that the free market does not care for the reasons one might pursue medicine...

I never said "altruism" was a valid reason to go into medicine either -- reading comprehension my friend. I said it's pretty much all about liking the job function or don't bother. If the only thing motivating you through call at 3am intern year is hope of a nice car someday, you aren't going to push through the hurt, especially when you see your college classmates on Facebook all seem to have business oriented jobs that are letting them buy houses and cars AND sleep at night. You need to really truly enjoy what you are doing because if it's not "fun", a lifetime of it will be unthinkable.
 
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If it gets me through the grueling nights of studying etc., then I believe those motivations are good enough...

The nights of "studying" are the easy part. Anyone could pull an all nighter or two studying for a nicer car -- that's not what we are talking about. It's the hundreds of nights of running around in the wards, people dying on you, attendings yelling at you, having to have hard and emotional conversations with upset patients family members, watching tragedy unfold for some people, and all the while you stink of sweat, are covered in bodily fluids and know you still have another dozen hours of this to go until daybreak. And you think a luxury sports car sitting in a garage someday is going to be enough motivation to have hundreds of nights like this? I think you have no frame of reference.

There are many jobs out there you can suffer through for the money and buying power. IMHO medicine just isn't a good choice for this.
 
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I never said "altruism" was a valid reason to go into medicine either -- reading comprehension my friend. I said it's pretty much all about liking the job function or don't bother. If the only thing motivating you through call at 3am intern year is hope of a nice car someday, you aren't going to push through the hurt, especially when you see your college classmates on Facebook all seem to have business oriented jobs that are letting them buy houses and cars AND sleep at night. You need to really truly enjoy what you are doing because if it's not "fun", a lifetime of it will be unthinkable.

If one shouldn't be motivated by material possessions nor out of their altruism, I can't imagine what else it would be. The job function for me is appealing; I would hate a repetitive job. Also, if I were on Facebook (which I wouldn't as I believe all social media is a waste of time) for every successful classmate I saw in business, I would see at least two others who may be smart but are unemployed/holding a low pay job. This goes back to the whole high basement, low ceiling aspect of medicine compared to the incredibly low basement in business.

There are many jobs out there you can suffer through for the money and buying power. IMHO medicine just isn't a good choice for this.
I'm open to suggestions; specifically careers that are money-rich, time-poor with a stable income above 200k.
 
If one shouldn't be motivated by material possessions nor out of their altruism, I can't imagine what else it would be. The job function for me is appealing; I would hate a repetitive job. Also, if I were on Facebook (which I wouldn't as I believe all social media is a waste of time) for every successful classmate I saw in business, I would see at least two others who may be smart but are unemployed/holding a low pay job. This goes back to the whole high basement, low ceiling aspect of medicine compared to the incredibly low basement in business.


I'm open to suggestions; specifically careers that are money-rich, time-poor with a stable income above 200k.
$ and altruism are what I call shallow motivators, they let you put up with mild hurdles but nothing like what you will come across for years in residency. Neither can be your primary focus or you will never make it or will hate every minute of it. Enjoying the job function is a much stronger motivator-- doing what you enjoy is palatable, even at 3am when people are yelling at you. It's not about it not being a repetitive job -- there actually is quite a lot of repetition in medicine -- things that are algorithms, paperwork you do identically for every discharge, etc. you have to like job aspects beyond things not repeating. I am not sure why I am bothering arguing here -- you strike me as the kind of person that will change his tune once you get a better vantage of what this job entails.

As for other suggestions, there are literally thousands of career paths where people have earned hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Most don't require advanced degrees or decades of training. You can become a millionaire selling any product or service if you are motivated and do it right. Richest guy I know personally started out selling pizza. I know tons of millionaire lawyers. I know very rich people who worked their way up the administrative ladder working at the US Postal service. I know a guy who makes a mint as a contractor fixing up people's homes. I know wealthy real estate developers. And so on. Nobody is going to say -- here is a job you will get rich at. But there are thousands of ways to get rich without hating your life. And unless you love medicine you'll hate your life.
 
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It's actually a good question - has OP spent any significant amount of time working with patients? As a high schooler, I'd think not. I've worked as an ER tech for nearly 10 years - yeah, overtime you get desensitized to people dying, but it's definitely not something that gets easier to be around. At some point in your training, someone dies. At some point in your training, you'll do sonething that either makes someone die or pushes them closer to it.

Does the thought of having a car make calling some poor kid's mother on Thanksgiving day and telling her her son is dead worth it?
 
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It's actually a good question - has OP spent any significant amount of time working with patients? As a high schooler, I'd think not. I've worked as an ER tech for nearly 10 years - yeah, overtime you get desensitized to people dying, but it's definitely not something that gets easier to be around. At some point in your training, someone dies. At some point in your training, you'll do sonething that either makes someone die or pushes them closer to it.

Does the thought of having a car make calling some poor kid's mother on Thanksgiving day and telling her her son is dead worth it?
Funny you should say that; I was just going make another post for advice on how to conduct a group interview for a summer hospital volunteering program I signed up for. My mom is a CNP at a nursing home, and if I had ten dollars for every time she discussed how one of her patients died under her care, I would have enough money to buy a nice car right now. I accept death as a natural part of life and make sure I don't form attachments for this very reason. That being said, I probably won't see anyone die this summer but at least it will expose me to patient interaction.
the job function is a much stronger motivator-- doing what you enjoy is palatable, even at 3am when people are yelling at you.
No one will understand this until they actually get exposure. From what I've seen so far, I like it.
As for other suggestions, there are literally thousands of career paths where people have earned hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Most don't require advanced degrees or decades of training. You can become a millionaire selling any product or service if you are motivated and do it right. Richest guy I know personally started out selling pizza. I know tons of millionaire lawyers. I know very rich people who worked their way up the administrative ladder working at the US Postal service. I know a guy who makes a mint as a contractor fixing up people's homes. I know wealthy real estate developers. And so on. Nobody is going to say -- here is a job you will get rich at. But there are thousands of ways to get rich without hating your life. And unless you love medicine you'll hate your life.
I agree. I could probably start filming myself playing video games in an attempt to become Pewdiepie on Youtube. That doesn't mean I'll ever get there. Additionally I wouldn't feel very fulfilled doing something like that. You would agree with me in saying that medicine ranks #1 when it comes to professions with the highest starting, and stable, salaries (excluding residency), right? And yes, I know the whole thing about 12+ years of training and all that.
 
I'd recommend 55-57 Chevies, actually. With Crager S/S mags.
The trouble with classic cars is that they are basically death traps if you get in an accident. Not only are they not protective, but their design actually serves to murder the **** out of you.
 
I remember that particular video and IIRC, the '59 was a rusted out car. Not quite a good comparison.


The trouble with classic cars is that they are basically death traps if you get in an accident. Not only are they not protective, but their design actually serves to murder the **** out of you.
 
The trouble with classic cars is that they are basically death traps if you get in an accident. Not only are they not protective, but their design actually serves to murder the **** out of you.

I've seen that video before.
Not too much worse than a Prius now a days tbh.
No one daily drives a classic car anyway so the chance of getting into an accident remains next to nothing. Plus why would you daily drive a classic? The more miles you put on the less money it's going to make in the future.
 
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I've seen that video before.
Not too much worse than a Prius now a days tbh.
No one daily drives a classic car anyway so the chance of getting into an accident remains next to nothing. Plus why would you daily drive a classic? The more miles you put on the less money it's going to make in the future.
Actually the Prius has astoundingly good passenger compartment protection capabilities- it's one of the safest cars out there to be in in a head-on collision.

I've seen people come out of wrecks in older cars and newer cars, and the types of injuries you see are just drastically different. You just don't see the sorts of crush injuries in new cars that you see in old ones, where the passenger compartment was designed to be as rigid as possible, and thus would cave in during an accident and essentially crush the passenger's legs. We actually learned a lot about trauma mechanisms in vehicles when I was taking my EMT course a few years back, where they went over the sorts of mechanisms of injury in newer versus older vehicles, along with pictures that the ambulance company had taken of various scenes they'd responded to. Let me just say that the results really spoke for themselves and I pretty much swore off ever owning a classic car lol.

As to a daily driver- why the hell do I want a nice car if I'm not going to be able to show it off? Might put it away for the winter, but once spring hits, I'm goin' everywhere in that thing. Cars aren't an investment, they're a depreciating asset that is meant to be enjoyed.
 
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I feel you OP, I too decided to pursue medicine so that I may one day wave, my Rolex-wearing hand, goodbye as I drive off in my energy-inefficient luxury sports car to my mansion in Cali. Don't listen to these peasants.
 
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Actually the Prius has astoundingly good passenger compartment protection capabilities- it's one of the safest cars out there to be in in a head-on collision.

I've seen people come out of wrecks in older cars and newer cars, and the types of injuries you see are just drastically different. You just don't see the sorts of crush injuries in new cars that you see in old ones, where the passenger compartment was designed to be as rigid as possible, and thus would cave in during an accident and essentially crush the passenger's legs. We actually learned a lot about trauma mechanisms in vehicles when I was taking my EMT course a few years back, where they went over the sorts of mechanisms of injury in newer versus older vehicles, along with pictures that the ambulance company had taken of various scenes they'd responded to. Let me just say that the results really spoke for themselves and I pretty much swore off ever owning a classic car lol.

As to a daily driver- why the hell do I want a nice car if I'm not going to be able to show it off? Might put it away for the winter, but once spring hits, I'm goin' everywhere in that thing. Cars aren't an investment, they're a depreciating asset that is meant to be enjoyed.

Figuratively speaking I meant, but yeah you're right. Even still, I'd rather be in a larger classic vehicle than a smartcar for example. Even though the smartcar's passenger compartment is basically indestructible, the car itself has very little mass and a short front end to absorb the impact. You'll die from your internal organs being crushed from slowing down extremely rapidly, but at least the EMT will be able to access the body much easier.

Most classic cars do not degrade in value if maintained properly without putting on too many miles. If I owned a 1967 Shelby 427 Cobra roadster with original miles, I would probably never drvie that thing lol. It's worth more than a million dollars and I wouldn't risk crashing it or putting too many miles on it. I'd be better off buying a kit car.
 
I feel you OP, I too decided to pursue medicine so that I may one day wave, my Rolex-wearing hand, goodbye as I drive off in my energy-inefficient luxury sports car to my mansion in Cali. Don't listen to these peasants.
Did you not read further from the first post? I've stated multiple times that I don't wish to live an opulent lifestyle. No Rolex or mansion.
 
Did you not read further from the first post? I've stated multiple times that I don't wish to live an opulent lifestyle. No Rolex or mansion.
My fault, I guess you're a peasant too then
 
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Figuratively speaking I meant, but yeah you're right. Even still, I'd rather be in a larger classic vehicle than a smartcar for example. Even though the smartcar's passenger compartment is basically indestructible, the car itself has very little mass and a short front end to absorb the impact. You'll die from your internal organs being crushed from slowing down extremely rapidly, but at least the EMT will be able to access the body much easier.

Most classic cars do not degrade in value if maintained properly without putting on too many miles. If I owned a 1967 Shelby 427 Cobra roadster with original miles, I would probably never drvie that thing lol. It's worth more than a million dollars and I wouldn't risk crashing it or putting too many miles on it. I'd be better off buying a kit car.
Life's too short to not enjoy nice things. A car unused and just stared at may as well not even be yours- I can look at pictures of cars or go to car shows all day erryday if I want. The fun of owning a nice car is driving it.

As to the deceleration of a smart car- that's why the airbags exist. The whole passenger compartment basically turns into a pillow fort on impact, so you actually decelerate slower than you would in a classic vehicle by a long shot.
 
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Life's too short to not enjoy nice things. A car unused and just stared at may as well not even be yours- I can look at pictures of cars or go to car shows all day erryday if I want. The fun of owning a nice car is driving it.

As to the deceleration of a smart car- that's why the airbags exist. The whole passenger compartment basically turns into a pillow fort on impact, so you actually decelerate slower than you would in a classic vehicle by a long shot.
Ever seen this video?

I agree with your stance on wanting drive classic cars. However, I might want own a collectors cars just for the purpose of investing money in addition to owning something I'd actually be able to drive.
 
Lots of hyperbole in this thread; not even sure where to start.

The fact is that life is full of choices. Some people choose to spend money on cars, others private school for their children. Who cares?

It IS possible to purchase a Ferrari or other luxury car on a physician's salary without going into the poorhouse. My ex drives a Lambo and I drive a German sports car *but* we are private practice surgical sub specialists, without children, with no (more - me; never - him) student loans; he lives in a state with no income tax and I live in a state with relatively low malpractice premiums (although still about 3 x that of California). We both have substantial discretionary income and good retirement buffers. YMMV if you have higher expenses/choices. I don't think he and I are "special" in that what we do is attainable for most.

All this nail gnashing about you'll be lucky to clear $100K as a physician and you'll be making less than your neighbors is overwrought; reimbursements may go down, but you'll adjust, like any intelligent grown-up.
 
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Ever seen this video?

I agree with your stance on wanting drive classic cars. However, I might want own a collectors cars just for the purpose of investing money in addition to owning something I'd actually be able to drive.

In all fairness, smart cars are terrible overall lol. Can't see why anyone would ever want to buy one, so saying you'd rather be in a classic car versus a smart car is really a false dichotomy given that there are so many other nice, modern cars out there that are substantially safer than a smart car.
 
It IS possible to purchase a Ferrari or other luxury car on a physician's salary without going into the poorhouse. My ex drives a Lambo and I drive a German sports car *but* we are private practice surgical sub specialists, without children, with no (more - me; never - him) student loans; he lives in a state with no income tax and I live in a state with relatively low malpractice premiums (although still about 3 x that of California).
FINALLY, someone who understands me. I would essentially mirror your lifestyle in an ideal world. Thank you for providing me with a sense of relief.
 
In all fairness, smart cars are terrible overall lol. Can't see why anyone would ever want to buy one, so saying you'd rather be in a classic car versus a smart car is really a false dichotomy given that there are so many other nice, modern cars out there that are substantially safer than a smart car.
I'm just saying that I'd rather be in a much larger and heavier older car than a newer car that weighs significantly less. Regardless of the safety improvements in the newer car, it's going to be taking the majority of the energy in a head-on crash; remember inertia. But yes, I get what you're saying about the technology improvements in newer vehicles.
 

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