Why Midwestern AZ?

[jschoi]

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Well I got accepted to both USC and Midwestern AZ, and still havent made my decision, but it seems like alot of you on this SDN speak highly of Midwestern.

As I summarize them, it looks like
Midwestern is

1. brand new facility
2. instructors used to practice in private practice
3. board after 1 yr with highly pass rate

I went to high school and college in Arizona, and I'm kinda sick of this state, and really wanting to get out of here.

Does any one of you think USC is a better choice than Midwestern?
Or am I gonna be sorry to pick USC over Midwestern AZ?

 

[Destiny11]

Well I got accepted to both USC and Midwestern AZ, and still havent made my decision, but it seems like alot of you on this SDN speak highly of Midwestern.

As I summarize them, it looks like
Midwestern is

1. brand new facility
2. instructors used to practice in private practice
3. board after 1 yr with highly pass rate

I went to high school and college in Arizona, and I'm kinda sick of this state, and really wanting to get out of here.

Does any one of you think USC is a better choice than Midwestern?
Or am I gonna be sorry to pick USC over Midwestern AZ?

You obviously don't know much about Midwestern AZ. This just shows how Midwestern AZ pick their applicants. Look through their catalog and you will find all the answers. I would say the only pros for going to USC are location, weather, alumni base, and a real university campus feel.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I think both schools are great. USC has a lot going for it. It's in Cali, big university feel, strong alumni, sick faculty I'd love to work with, like Pascal Magne. But MWU has a lot going for it too. MWU has a better patient population. They are making it rain patients in Glendale! haha MWU takes boards after first year, which is sweet. There is a lower cost of living in AZ, and we'll host a WREB so you can take the boards in your own chair. oh yeah, and you get your own chair (shared with the BFF of your choice who you switch being each other's assistant). MWU doesn't have (dental)alumni yet, but the fact has been beaten to death on forums that the name of your school makes little or no difference.
Both schools have a lot going on, but of course I'd say MWU! lol. i have a bunch of friends at USC and they are enjoying their experience as well.

 

[AtlantaBraves]

You obviously don't know much about Midwestern AZ. This just shows how Midwestern AZ pick their applicants. Look through their catalog and you will find all the answers. I would say the only pros for going to USC are location, weather, alumni base, and a real university campus feel.

Destiny11, I do not understand what you are implying about the way that MWU-AZ selects their applicants? Could you elaborate? Sounds like you're just being a cotton-headed ninny muggins... (excuse my language)

 

[peanutb123]

If you are big on diversity... then probably Midwestern wont be the right place for you.

 

[Destiny11]

Destiny11, I do not understand what you are implying about the way that MWU-AZ selects their applicants? Could you elaborate? Sounds like you're just being a cotton-headed ninny muggins... (excuse my language)

Sorry for generalizing. I am simply implying that MWU-AZ accepted someone like OP who doesn't know anything about the school.

 

[RUpremed]

LOL cotton-headed ninnymuggins

gotta love elf

 

[Oracle DMD]

If you are big on diversity... then probably Midwestern wont be the right place for you.

MWU is as diverse as the profession, or the average dental school.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Sorry for generalizing. I am simply implying that MWU-AZ accepted someone like OP who doesn't know anything about the school.

most applicants to any school know little to nothing about the schools they interview at, or at the very least they don't know how little they know. unless you consider location, cost, and the name of the school to be a lot of information about a school.

 

[Destiny11]

most applicants to any school know little to nothing about the schools they interview at, or at the very least they don't know how little they know. unless you consider location, cost, and the name of the school to be a lot of information about a school.

I guess it's a numbers game after all. I am just having a hard time thinking that a dental school would give away a valuable spot to someone who doesn't know why he/she wanted to go there. Perhaps the OP has high numbers and did not get the why MWU question at the interview.

 

[peanutb123]

MWU is as diverse as the profession, or the average dental school.

Rubbish...

here from adea 2k10, MWU is not diverse at all even the Asians that they accept are either too white in color(mean they are not distinguishable and cant tell by looking at them that they are Asians).

I walked through your sim lab and didnt even see a single non white person there who are we kidding its not same as average dental school diversity. Plus during the whole tour I haven't seen a single colored person.

 

[beatsdre]

Well I got accepted to both USC and Midwestern AZ, and still havent made my decision, but it seems like alot of you on this SDN speak highly of Midwestern.

As I summarize them, it looks like
Midwestern is

1. brand new facility
2. instructors used to practice in private practice
3. board after 1 yr with highly pass rate

I went to high school and college in Arizona, and I'm kinda sick of this state, and really wanting to get out of here.

Does any one of you think USC is a better choice than Midwestern?
Or am I gonna be sorry to pick USC over Midwestern AZ?

Pro Midwestern:

1)Amazing Facility
2)At every "new" college, the instructors want to help you, because they want the school to succeed since they do not have that "reputation" yet. I got the same vibe from Western, and the other Midwestern.
3)It's in a "decent" area compared to Compton.

Con Midwestern:
1) No graduating class yet. (They may have some kinks here and there to sort out. Question is: do you want to risk it? or do you want to go to a school that you know is established)
2) NO research
3) The area isn't ideal for a 21-22 year old. It's in the suburbs. It's in the desert. It's has no undergrad. Compare this to USC football/school pride/college atmosphere. The students in the program are also mostly older, married, and hmm I don't want to use the word "conservative", but it does seem so.

YOU decide pro/con for Midwestern:

1) No PBL
2) Low Diversity

Pro USC:
1) Campus Feel/Atmosphere. Great place for a 21-22 year old. More things to do in your off-time.
2) Has established reputation. You know what you are getting worth.
3) Strong alumni network (although I don't think this is such a big pro)
4) HAS research


Con USC:
1) Surrounding area isn't the best
2) I believe its pricier then Midwestern
3) Facilities aren't as nice as Midwestern

YOU decide Pro/Con USC:

1)I felt there was a more diverse amount of individuals (older, younger, married etc) compared to Midwestern.
2)Higher Diversity in terms of racial background.
3) PBL!

Thats what I got from all these two schools, and this is an unbiased opinion- as I'm not attending either school. GL with ure decision.

 

[Chako]

Congrats on you acceptance! I'm from CA and decided to apply to A.T. Still, Midwestern, and Loma Linda. I've been accepted to all three. I haven't decided but I'm leaning to a school in AZ. I have a good friend who did her undergrad/Masters-Doctorate in Occupational Therapy at USC and she confirms what I heard about the program from Professionals and students here in CA... And that is, that it is that USC is HEAVILY researched based. It is a great school if you want to write or teach, and it is #1 in the nation. But, CA traffic will make you crazy before you even get to school, the cost is OUTRAGEOUS Tuition alone is around $100,000 for the program, and once again limited hands on education. Midwestern tuition is around $65,000, it is ranked #78, but the pass rate for the NBCOT is high, around 85% for Glendale campus. (I can't even find a pass rate for USC) I love AZ, and want to get out of CA so that is another plus for me. Hope this helped, and good luck!

 

[yamu010]

Sorry, but wondering how you answered their questions in the interview: why Midwestern, or why USC?

 

[Oracle DMD]

Rubbish...

here from adea 2k10, MWU is not diverse at all even the Asians that they accept are either too white in color(mean they are not distinguishable and cant tell by looking at them that they are Asians).

I walked through your sim lab and didnt even see a single non white person there who are we kidding its not same as average dental school diversity. Plus during the whole tour I haven't seen a single colored person.

what's rubbish is your stats (and that you use the term "colored person"). that is only the info from our inaugural class, not our whole school. also you didn't even try to see what the average for dental school diversity is or try to find stats on the whole profession are.

i'd rather not turn this thread into a talk about race or affirmative action or whatever so i'm going to go back to being on vaction.

 

[peanutb123]

what's rubbish is your stats (and that you use the term "colored person"). that is only the info from our inaugural class, not our whole school. also you didn't even try to see what the average for dental school diversity is or try to find stats on the whole profession are.

i'd rather not turn this thread into a talk about race or affirmative action or whatever so i'm going to go back to being on vaction.

Point in case proven that MW-AZ DENTAL SCHOOL is not diverse.

BTW those stats are from ADEA... I chose to display those stats b/c those schools are located in south west.

No one is trying to start or turn this thread into a race fight. Its just simple display of facts. Yet they are clearly presented in front of your eyes and you deny them deadly.

 

[Noelle23]

A little off topic... But why do you think that UCSF and LLU take so few females? Most schools are closing the gap between genders and it looks as if these two schools are not! 😡

 

[AtlantaBraves]

Maybe MWU-AZ does not feel obligated to meet certain ethnic quotas. Maybe they choose to simply accept those who are best qualified.

 

[peanutb123]

Maybe MWU-AZ does not feel obligated to meet certain ethnic quotas. Maybe they choose to simply accept those who are best qualified.

lol

 

[Kates7888]

I would personally pick USC! I must admit I don't know much about Midwestern Az besides the obvious SDN fact that there is not an established alumni network. I fell in love with USC because I think it has all the features needed to become a well-rounded dentist. The location provides an opportunity to have a great patient pool and all of the community outreach they do is amazing. I have a friend who goes there now and spends a lot of time working on the mobile dental clinic. Regardless of if you want to do research or not, I think its extremely important to be at an institution that can provide a solid research background. All of the dentists who I have shadowed have stressed how important it is to stay current with research taking place in the field to make yourself a more competitive/up-to-date dentist. Everyone there was so friendly and the USC family really does take care of you (especially if you want to specialize)!

Good luck with your decision!

 

[WAgirl]

I am trying to decide between USC and MWU AZ as well! I think it's such a difficult decision since the pros of each school are so different. Have you decided yet?

 

[kflinstone]

Rubbish...

here from adea 2k10, MWU is not diverse at all even the Asians that they accept are either too white in color(mean they are not distinguishable and cant tell by looking at them that they are Asians).

I walked through your sim lab and didnt even see a single non white person there who are we kidding its not same as average dental school diversity. Plus during the whole tour I haven't seen a single colored person.

I'm Asian and I attend MWU. If anyone is reading this thread please don't listen to peanutb123's statement on Asians here. I've lived in one of the most Asian dense cities in the U.S. and I am happy with my decision with coming to MWU. If anyone has any questions feel free to message me.

 

[Destiny11]

I'm Asian and I attend MWU. If anyone is reading this thread please don't listen to peanutb123's statement on Asians here. I've lived in one of the most Asian dense cities in the U.S. and I am happy with my decision with coming to MWU. If anyone has any questions feel free to message me.

You must be 1 of the 16. MWU's campus is diverse, but its dental school is not as diverse compared to other dental schools.

 

[kflinstone]

You must be 1 of the 16. MWU's campus is diverse, but its dental school is not as diverse compared to other dental schools.

And you are incorrect my friend. I am not in the class that is represented by the data.

MWU might not be as diverse and if you read my comment before, I wasn't comparing it to other schools. I was explaining that the comment that peanutb123 made about Asians is inaccurate coming from an Asian who does attend MWU. I just don't want people on the forums to be misinformed about the school.

 

[peanutb123]

I'm Asian and I attend MWU. If anyone is reading this thread please don't listen to peanutb123's statement on Asians here. I've lived in one of the most Asian dense cities in the U.S. and I am happy with my decision with coming to MWU. If anyone has any questions feel free to message me.

What what are you saying?... IN the past you lived in an Asian community but dont anymore? Or are you living in the Asian dense community right now? I am confused...

Kflinstone - i am not asking people to believe me I CARELESS I have gotten into other schools near my home. I really dont care about Midwestern. I have been to your school and I roamed around Midwestern for couple of hours the day before that. So During my time there I saw what I SAW. YOU CAN say i dont know what i am talking about or what not... BUT hey look into the adea book... I have pasted the pic which you have quoted.

 

[peanutb123]

And you are incorrect my friend. I am not in the class that is represented by the data.

MWU might not be as diverse and if you read my comment before, I wasn't comparing it to other schools. I was explaining that the comment that peanutb123 made about Asians is inaccurate coming from an Asian who does attend MWU. I just don't want people on the forums to be misinformed about the school.

yeah data is from C/O 2013

 

[kflinstone]

What what are you saying?... IN the past you lived in an Asian community but dont anymore? Or are you living in the Asian dense community right now? I am confused...

Kflinstone - i am not asking people to believe me I CARELESS I have gotten into other schools near my home. I really dont care about Midwestern. I have been to your school and I roamed around Midwestern for couple of hours the day before that. So During my time there I saw what I SAW. YOU CAN say i dont know what i am talking about or what not... BUT hey look into the adea book... I have pasted the pic which you have quoted.

I'm happy for you that you got into school. Hey I agree we might not be AS diverse as other schools but to go so far as to say: "Asians they accept are either too white in color(mean they are not distinguishable and cant tell by looking at them that they are Asians)." That's pretty offending.

 

[kflinstone]

yeah data is from C/O 2013

Thank you for rechecking your data and deleting your statement saying I was incorrect.

 

[peanutb123]

Thank you for rechecking your data and deleting your statement saying I was incorrect.

While my visit over thereo, i do not think i have seen any freshmen. But Second years and 3rd years(that's 2/3 of Midwestern dental students the other 1/3 would be freshmen) we saw the whole class . From what i saw i have reported... I guess we will see in couple months when the data for C/O 2014 is published.

 

[lmaozedong1]

While my visit over thereo, i do not think i have seen any freshmen. But Second years and 3rd years(that's 2/3 of Midwestern dental students the other 1/3 would be freshmen) we saw the whole class . From what i saw i have reported... I guess we will see in couple months when the data for C/O 2014 is published.

You strike me as the kind of person who would never say the kinds of things you do in person, but feel really tough and obligated to state your opinions online. You also sound like a very angry person...good for you though. I thought Midwestern was more diverse than you are saying...just my opinion.

 

[peanutb123]

You strike me as the kind of person who would never say the kinds of things you do in person, but feel really tough and obligated to state your opinions online. You also sound like a very angry person...good for you though. I thought Midwestern was more diverse than you are saying...just my opinion.

lol, I am not angry at all i am just stating facts of what i saw. But may be its my english where i realize i say something but it might sound angry to others but from my eyes it just reads & sounds normal. I apologize if you guys felt i was angry or something...

+ i have just realized i am literally starting a debate or useless posts on something i really dont care about. You are right... I will try to stay out of this one lol 🙂

 

[kflinstone]

While my visit over thereo, i do not think i have seen any freshmen. But Second years and 3rd years(that's 2/3 of Midwestern dental students the other 1/3 would be freshmen) we saw the whole class . From what i saw i have reported... I guess we will see in couple months when the data for C/O 2014 is published.

Well I don't know if the data for class has changed much. I really don't keep track of what the diversity is. Too many other things to worry about. I just wanted to explain that Destiny was incorrect in saying I was part of the data. Also just wanted to inform those on these boards that if diversity is an issue; as a student here, I have had no issues with it nor has it crossed my mind.

 

[jschoi]

I decided to decline the offer from Midwestern
for those of you worshiping Midwestern,
here goes one extra seat for you guys 🙂

Good luck

 

[ZFT]

... even the Asians that they accept are either too white in color(mean they are not distinguishable and cant tell by looking at them that they are Asians).

🤣phenotype discussions are tricky

this reminds me of the time when some high schoolers told me that they feel bad when they use the term black american, but feel that they are trying too hard when they use african american

 

[321931]

Wow this thread took a turn for the worse. Hard. -_-

Anyways, I did interview at Midwestern, and well, I did feel sorta outa place. But then again I do come from a UC which has a tons of diversity. Heck even UCLA is nicknamed "unversity of california lost in asian" or something like that.

Midwestern has a good thing going on, but its not for me.

 

[peerless218]

Rubbish...

here from adea 2k10, MWU is not diverse at all even the Asians that they accept are either too white in color(mean they are not distinguishable and cant tell by looking at them that they are Asians).

I walked through your sim lab and didnt even see a single non white person there who are we kidding its not same as average dental school diversity. Plus during the whole tour I haven't seen a single colored person.

I used to believe ADEA20xx gives you a perfect stat reading when I was a pre-dental student. My opinion shifted when I saw how they listed UOP as a 4 yr program on either 2009 or the 2010 edition

 

[andreadds]

Bump- Arizona... not a diverse school? What do you guys know about this school?

 

[customx]

Bump- Arizona... not a diverse school? What do you guys know about this school?

Not the most diverse. I think around 70-80% of the class is white.
I'll be attending MWU. Of the 6 schools I interviewed at, I was most impressed with Midwestern. I like the fact that you take NBDE I after your first year, and nearly all of your third and fourth year you are in clinic. D3 and D4 students are scheduled to be in clinic on average, 32-36 hours a week. This will hopefully lead to getting tons of experience.
It's expensive, but I'm hoping to land a 3 year HPSP scholarship to offset some of the cost.

 

[ajj70]

Bump- Arizona... not a diverse school? What do you guys know about this school?

It's probably changed some since 2011 when the last poster posted on this thread.

 

[gsquared]

Did the high cost scare anybody else off? I mean, this is 30-40k higher than many state schools...

 

[Incis0r]

Did the high cost scare anybody else off? I mean, this is 30-40k higher than many state schools...

I've been talking to a few of my friends who are interested in private schools priced similar to this one. The most common reactions (from my friends) have been:

"Oh pfft we'll be fine"

"400K? But a new dentist makes 250K a year guaranteed. We'll make plenty to pay it back"

"IBR/PAYE will save us"

"It's a bubble. When it explodes, all loans will be forgiven"

"It's an awesome quality of education, let's go for it"

 

[ajj70]

Did the high cost scare anybody else off? I mean, this is 30-40k higher than many state schools...

Scared off, not totally, but I'd rather pay that then not get in at all. I'd rather not have to pay off $400K, but the reality is, you SHOULD be able to pay that off in a reasonable amount of time if you live a reasonable lifestyle. What worries me more are people that are more concerned about having a "nice life" and then talk about the expensive cars they want to buy right away, etc.

 

[Incis0r]

Scared off, not totally, but I'd rather pay that then not get in at all. I'd rather not have to pay off $400K, but the reality is, you SHOULD be able to pay that off in a reasonable amount of time if you live a reasonable lifestyle. What worries me more are people that are more concerned about having a "nice life" and then talk about the expensive cars they want to buy right away, etc.

Yes, I agree that it's much harder to pay off the loans with a much higher-spending lifestyle.

 

[gsquared]

How long would you all say it would take to pay back this kind of loan on an associate's salary if you are used to living frugally? I've been driving a car from the 90's with a value gym membership and eating vegetarian for a few years now...

 

[ajj70]

How long would you all say it would take to pay back this kind of loan on an associate's salary if you are used to living frugally? I've been driving a car from the 90's with a value gym membership and eating vegetarian for a few years now...

Need numbers to answer that, but say you are making $150,000, taking home about $96,000, living frugally you can put $40,000/year toward your loans, so 10 years or so. If you have more than one income, maybe 5 years. This is assuming the interest rates on your loans is higher than what your investments would be bringing in, etc. It is also assuming you aren't living in Midtown Manhattan or San Francisco and can afford to live off 50K/year.

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

Bump- Arizona... not a diverse school? What do you guys know about this school?

I know its got probably the hottest girls out of any dental school.

Less importantly, it gives you a great clinical education. I would say probably the best in the country.

 

[Incis0r]

it gives you a great clinical education. I would say probably the best in the country.

What is your basis for this statement?

 

[Incis0r]

Need numbers to answer that, but say you are making $150,000, taking home about $96,000, living frugally you can put $40,000/year toward your loans, so 10 years or so. If you have more than one income, maybe 5 years. This is assuming the interest rates on your loans is higher than what your investments would be bringing in, etc. It is also assuming you aren't living in Midtown Manhattan or San Francisco and can afford to live off 50K/year.

MWU-AZ total cost is 428K (https://www.midwestern.edu/Documents/Financial Aid documents/COA Forms/2015-16 AZ/Dental _ AZ 1516 final.pdf). This assumes no further tuition increases, which WILL happen.

40K a year is only going to result in 400K after 10 years.

Total cost of attending MWU-AZ is 428K + interest.
Over 10 years, you will pay a total of 557K for a MWU-AZ Dental education...That's 129K in interest.

This assumes 7% interest rate and $4644/mo payment.
As an aside, you CAN live frugally for less than 50K a year, depending on the location. However, I think your 50K includes a yearly savings/rainy day budget, in which case 50K is reasonable.

 

[gsquared]

Thanks for crunching the numbers Incis0r. This fits with the info I have been reading and discussing with my family. However, I've also read a fair amount about the difficulty getting an associate's position at a practice/buying into one. What if you get stuck in a dental mill sort of location with limited earning potential?

 

[Incis0r]

Thanks for crunching the numbers Incis0r. This fits with the info I have been reading and discussing with my family. However, I've also read a fair amount about the difficulty getting an associate's position at a practice/buying into one. What if you get stuck in a dental mill sort of location with limited earning potential?

Pleasure.
So here's my take on the market, based on what the dentists I've shadowed have told me.

Dental mills are good for three things: 1) Speed 2) Money and 3) Business
1) Speed- You typically work out of two or three ops at the same time. You're doing a filling in 1, crown in 2, endo in 3. Inject one, prep one, seat one. This makes you great with multitasking.

2) Money- Dental mills typically pay higher than associate positions. That's why they're becoming so popular and are threatening the traditional solo practice model. A private practice owner just can't compete with the benefits and high starting incomes offered by dental mills. I've heard associates may start at 110K independent contractor, but corporate can start you with benefits + 130K.

3) Business- You can learn a lot about insurance, office management, staff management, patient management in them.

It's true- earning will be limited to a certain percent of collections/production. But you're getting some good experience, a higher income than what you might make in private practice as an associate, and some good corporate experience so when you branch out you'll hit the ground running.

Again, this is just from my experience talking to multiple dentists. The folks over on the DDS/DMD/Practicing Dentists forum will definitely be more helpful.