Why not IHS?

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cyro8

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It boggles my mind that more people don't pursue IHS for a dental career. I guess the obvious reasoning is that these locations can be extremely rural, but the tradeoff is so much greater. You're a federal employee receiving all the federal benefits AND you get loan repayment. Another bonus is that most facilities provide housing that is heavily subsidized and rent is extremely cheap (and tax deductible).
Federal employee salaries are public information. I looked up IHS salaries and they're not bad at all. Many dentists in Montana make 200k+ ......What gives? Is it the salary? Is it something else I'm not considering?

To look up salary, just google "feds data center" and voila.

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I would imagine that your scope would be limited. Hopefully someone more experienced can chime in.

That would bother me the most.
 
Like mentioned before, location and scope. These are huge. If working for the federal government is appealing (which most dentists would not find appealing) then there is a VA hospital in every major city and lots of non major cities out there with dentists. Location and scope are generally not an issue at VA hospitals.
 
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The only thing I can comment on here is living in a truly rural setting. The term is tossed around on here a lot, but I don't think people fully grasp what it means for your day to day life. It turns people off for a reason.

Major downsides to rural living (from my experience):
1) Driving 30 minutes to get to wal-mart (the nearest actual grocery store)
2) Having well-water (all fine and dandy until you lose power and also water)
3) Losing power. When it happens, you could be out for days to a week. Better have a generator!
4) Enjoy going out? Well, get used to having 1 or maybe 2 bars. Not young/lively bars, either. You can drive 45 minutes to go to a fun brewery... but then you have the problem of getting home. There is no walking home/uber/taxi service.
5) Best restaurant in town? Applebees.
6) Need major medical care? Be prepared to get life-flighted 45 minutes to an hour to a hospital that can operate on you. There is a reason they have to do scholarships like this to draw young docs to rural areas.

There are also major pluses. Privacy and outdoor hobbies come to mind (hunting, fishing, hiking). If you're into farming, it's a great place to be. The safety of rural areas and personally knowing everyone in town is a plus.

It makes a lot of sense from the rural reason alone. Not many 20-something dentists fresh out of a big city are looking to shutdown their nightlife and totally change their day to day life. It's worth saying that I personally do plan to live somewhere rural again after dental school (the lack of adequate medical care is what drove me to dental school to begin with). It's absolutely not for everyone though. Hard to fully grasp without living it. It was the same for me going to college in a big city... very different!
 
also... some people are married and have a family & their life to think about.. u can't just pack up and leave .....
 
The only thing I can comment on here is living in a truly rural setting. The term is tossed around on here a lot, but I don't think people fully grasp what it means for your day to day life. It turns people off for a reason.

Major downsides to rural living (from my experience):
1) Driving 30 minutes to get to wal-mart (the nearest actual grocery store)
2) Having well-water (all fine and dandy until you lose power and also water)
3) Losing power. When it happens, you could be out for days to a week. Better have a generator!
4) Enjoy going out? Well, get used to having 1 or maybe 2 bars. Not young/lively bars, either. You can drive 45 minutes to go to a fun brewery... but then you have the problem of getting home. There is no walking home/uber/taxi service.
5) Best restaurant in town? Applebees.
6) Need major medical care? Be prepared to get life-flighted 45 minutes to an hour to a hospital that can operate on you. There is a reason they have to do scholarships like this to draw young docs to rural areas.

There are also major pluses. Privacy and outdoor hobbies come to mind (hunting, fishing, hiking). If you're into farming, it's a great place to be. The safety of rural areas and personally knowing everyone in town is a plus.

It makes a lot of sense from the rural reason alone. Not many 20-something dentists fresh out of a big city are looking to shutdown their nightlife and totally change their day to day life. It's worth saying that I personally do plan to live somewhere rural again after dental school (the lack of adequate medical care is what drove me to dental school to begin with). It's absolutely not for everyone though. Hard to fully grasp without living it. It was the same for me going to college in a big city... very different!

My wife is a medical provider (not dentist) for IHS and we both live on a Reservation. We've been here for a year and look to be here as long as we can. I'm not a provider, but I'm trying to get into Dental School. I figured I could provide 2 cents on some of things we've experienced thus far......

1)Driving 30 minutes to get to wal-mart (the nearest actual grocery store)
--------This is somewhat true. The nearest walmart for us is 90 miles. The nearest grocery store? 5 minutes. A lot of IHS facilities will be located in a population center, so there is TYPICALLY a grocery store nearby.

2)Having well-water (all fine and dandy until you lose power and also water)
--------We do have well-water. How to we circumvent that? You'd be surprised of the companies that come out in the middle of nowhere to provide you bottled water service. We have sparklettes (the office dispensing water tower with the big bottles) and it only runs us $20 a month. Water has been tested multiple times by physicians in the facility and the water always comes back clean. We use the water to cook with and that's about it. Everything else is the water bottles.

3)Losing power. When it happens, you could be out for days to a week. Better have a generator!
--------This has never happened to us. The power does flicker quite a bit, but it has never been off for more than 1 hour. All of the other IHS facilities around us have never experienced this either.

4) Enjoy going out? Well, get used to having 1 or maybe 2 bars. Not young/lively bars, either. You can drive 45 minutes to go to a fun brewery... but then you have the problem of getting home. There is no walking home/uber/taxi service.

---------We have no bars within 90 miles (dry rez). However, we live in a community with a bunch of other people who are in the same predicament. So what do we do? We bring the party to our house or someone else's house! Some of the best friends we've made have been in this community. The best part of all this? WE don't blow a bunch of money at the bar and we get to hang out with the people we know.

5) Best restaurant in town? Applebees.
--------Go lower. The best restaurant in town is Denny's. This doesn't bother us too much. If anything, we've learned to cook at home and find much more satisfaction in doing so. Every now and again we'll call in an order to Denny's and pick it up if we're lazy.

6) Need major medical care? Be prepared to get life-flighted 45 minutes to an hour to a hospital that can operate on you. There is a reason they have to do scholarships like this to draw young docs to rural areas.
-------Of course major medical care is far away, but this is the absolute last thing that crossed my mind. We're a healthy couple living in a community of health practitioners. I mean, if you're in poor health and afraid of dying, then I would say you need to located in proximity of a hospital. We're allowed to receive routine care at our IHS facility. Most of the docs here are some of the most educated practitioners you'll ever encounter (according to my wife).

YOUR EXPERIENCES MAY VARY

I guess my thought process is different than some other 20 somethings. If I come fresh out of dental school with 300k+ debt, I would do just about anything reduced the load.

We were that couple that lived in a big city close to everything we could've ever wanted. We decided one day to make the leap and move to the middle of nowhere. Have we missed a few things and conveniences? Absolutely. Do we regret making the move? Absolutely not.

If you ever have questions about what it's like out here, hit me up. I have 2 dentists that are my next door neighbors that I could put you in touch with.
 
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also... some people are married and have a family & their life to think about.. u can't just pack up and leave .....
We did just this. Have a kid and another on the way. We moved away to a Rez and haven't looked back. There are plenty of families out here to mingle with and have other kids to play with. Actually, my kid gets more interaction out here with other kids than he did in the city (including Native kids). Maybe we're just crazy too.
 
Like mentioned before, location and scope. These are huge. If working for the federal government is appealing (which most dentists would not find appealing) then there is a VA hospital in every major city and lots of non major cities out there with dentists. Location and scope are generally not an issue at VA hospitals.
Good point. But, you don't receive loan repayment (from what I know) or if there's loan repayment, it's not nearly as much as IHS. From what I can tell, it's really hard to find VA dental jobs.
 
We did just this. Have a kid and another on the way. We moved away to a Rez and haven't looked back. There are plenty of families out here to mingle with and have other kids to play with. Actually, my kid gets more interaction out here with other kids than he did in the city (including Native kids). Maybe we're just crazy too.
right.. but when your spouse has their own career you can't expect them to give up their job...? I donno.. I guess it works for some families and it doesn't work for some.
 
My wife is a medical provider (not dentist) for IHS and we both live on a Reservation. We've been here for a year and look to be here as long as we can. I'm not a provider, but I'm trying to get into Dental School. I figured I could provide 2 cents on some of things we've experienced thus far......

1)Driving 30 minutes to get to wal-mart (the nearest actual grocery store)
--------This is somewhat true. The nearest walmart for us is 90 miles. The nearest grocery store? 5 minutes. A lot of IHS facilities will be located in a population center, so there is TYPICALLY a grocery store nearby.

2)Having well-water (all fine and dandy until you lose power and also water)
--------We do have well-water. How to we circumvent that? You'd be surprised of the companies that come out in the middle of nowhere to provide you bottled water service. We have sparklettes (the office dispensing water tower with the big bottles) and it only runs us $20 a month. Water has been tested multiple times by physicians in the facility and the water always comes back clean. We use the water to cook with and that's about it. Everything else is the water bottles.

3)Losing power. When it happens, you could be out for days to a week. Better have a generator!
--------This has never happened to us. The power does flicker quite a bit, but it has never been off for more than 1 hour. All of the other IHS facilities around us have never experienced this either.

4) Enjoy going out? Well, get used to having 1 or maybe 2 bars. Not young/lively bars, either. You can drive 45 minutes to go to a fun brewery... but then you have the problem of getting home. There is no walking home/uber/taxi service.

---------We have no bars within 90 miles (dry rez). However, we live in a community with a bunch of other people who are in the same predicament. So what do we do? We bring the party to our house or someone else's house! Some of the best friends we've made have been in this community. The best part of all this? WE don't blow a bunch of money at the bar and we get to hang out with the people we know.

5) Best restaurant in town? Applebees.
--------Go lower. The best restaurant in town is Denny's. This doesn't bother us too much. If anything, we've learned to cook at home and find much more satisfaction in doing so. Every now and again we'll call in an order to Denny's and pick it up if we're lazy.

6) Need major medical care? Be prepared to get life-flighted 45 minutes to an hour to a hospital that can operate on you. There is a reason they have to do scholarships like this to draw young docs to rural areas.
-------Of course major medical care is far away, but this is the absolute last thing that crossed my mind. We're a healthy couple living in a community of health practitioners. I mean, if you're in poor health and afraid of dying, then I would say you need to located in proximity of a hospital. We're allowed to receive routine care at our IHS facility. Most of the docs here are some of the most educated practitioners you'll ever encounter (according to my wife).

YOUR EXPERIENCES MAY VARY

I guess my thought process is different than some other 20 somethings. If I come fresh out of dental school with 300k+ debt, I would do just about anything reduced the load.

We were that couple that lived in a big city close to everything we could've ever wanted. We decided one day to make the leap and move to the middle of nowhere. Have we missed a few things and conveniences? Absolutely. Do we regret making the move? Absolutely not.

If you ever have questions about what it's like out here, hit me up. I have 2 dentists that are my next door neighbors that I could put you in touch with.
I didn't realize when writing that up that you have the experience of living on a reservation. That's a very unique and valuable experience to have. Thanks for sharing your perspective! I'm sure it's going to be useful to prospective IHS applicants to see on the board here. I was writing from the angle that you hadn't lived in a rural setting before and I was just broadly answering "why wouldn't a dental student want to do IHS". I still think that my answer is the main answer: that people who are adapted to the commodities of large cities don't want to live in a true rural setting. I grew up in a rural, medically/dentally underserved area. It's not for everyone. Your perspective was definitely refreshing to read, though. It's interesting to me that someone who isn't from a rural area is actually enjoying living in one now. Good stuff!
 
right.. but when your spouse has their own career you can't expect them to give up their job...? I donno.. I guess it works for some families and it doesn't work for some.
I had my career and gave it up. I did the math and we make more money being here with one
I didn't realize when writing that up that you have the experience of living on a reservation. That's a very unique and valuable experience to have. Thanks for sharing your perspective! I'm sure it's going to be useful to prospective IHS applicants to see on the board here. I was writing from the angle that you hadn't lived in a rural setting before and I was just broadly answering "why wouldn't a dental student want to do IHS". I still think that my answer is the main answer: that people who are adapted to the commodities of large cities don't want to live in a true rural setting. I grew up in a rural, medically/dentally underserved area. It's not for everyone. Your perspective was definitely refreshing to read, though. It's interesting to me that someone who isn't from a rural area is actually enjoying living in one now. Good stuff!

Yeah. I should've mentioned that originally. Sorry about that!
I guess I have developed this level bias towards the area as I see how much people enjoy it. It's definitely not for everyone. Some docs leave immediately after their commitment is up. On the flip side, my wife says it's the best job she's ever had and there are quite a few people that have been here 5+ years and some that have left and come back. She actually makes more money working for the government than she does in a private setting and genuinely gets to help people. I guess that's why I'm trying to get people to take a second look. It's not all unicorns and rainbows, but it's depressing to read these threads about people struggling with debt and trying to keep up with the Joneses.
 
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right.. but when your spouse has their own career you can't expect them to give up their job...? I donno.. I guess it works for some families and it doesn't work for some.

I did this. I was an engineer for 6 years making a decent living. I gave it up because it was cheaper for us to move out here and me not even work. My spouse just received a significant pay raise, so now we're absolutely killing it. You have to look at the whole picture.

Part of the other reason to move out here was due to the cheap tuition rez schools can offer (if they have a college). The college I'm attending now to complete my prerequisites is only $55 per credit hour. They offer everything a dental school wants including biochemistry, biology, chemistry, organic, and physics. There's a guy in my class now that just got accepted into Dental School.

It has been a win-win all around.

I understand it's not for everyone, but I'm trying to kill some of the misconceptions about life on a rez.
 
I did this. I was an engineer for 6 years making a decent living. I gave it up because it was cheaper for us to move out here and me not even work. My spouse just received a significant pay raise, so now we're absolutely killing it. You have to look at the whole picture.

Part of the other reason to move out here was due to the cheap tuition rez schools can offer (if they have a college). The college I'm attending now to complete my prerequisites is only $55 per credit hour. They offer everything a dental school wants including biochemistry, biology, chemistry, organic, and physics. There's a guy in my class now that just got accepted into Dental School.

It has been a win-win all around.

I understand it's not for everyone, but I'm trying to kill some of the misconceptions about life on a rez.
good for u...
 
@cyro8 I'm really glad you started this thread! I have been living in rural settings my whole life, except while in college, and am raising a family in yet another rather rural setting. Hence, I will be commuting to "the big city" for DS starting in the fall, b/c the family is all settled here. However, once I get my DDS, relocating with IHS might be a fantastic option. I've looked into a lot of ways to reduce my student debt and doing everything possible to do so, especially since I'm getting a late start as a non-trad. I don't know how I overlooked this option...
 
It boggles my mind that more people don't pursue IHS for a dental career. I guess the obvious reasoning is that these locations can be extremely rural, but the tradeoff is so much greater. You're a federal employee receiving all the federal benefits AND you get loan repayment. Another bonus is that most facilities provide housing that is heavily subsidized and rent is extremely cheap (and tax deductible).
Federal employee salaries are public information. I looked up IHS salaries and they're not bad at all. Many dentists in Montana make 200k+ ......What gives? Is it the salary? Is it something else I'm not considering?

To look up salary, just google "feds data center" and voila.
would I be correct in assuming that you can get the $40,000 in loan repayment for your first two yrs of service with IHS, but also qualify for PSLF after 10yrs (if you stayed on), so whatever balance is left gets forgiven tax-free? That would be an awesome way to be debt-free in 10 yrs, while only making very reasonable loan payments
 
would I be correct in assuming that you can get the $40,000 in loan repayment for your first two yrs of service with IHS, but also qualify for PSLF after 10yrs (if you stayed on), so whatever balance is left gets forgiven tax-free? That would be an awesome way to be debt-free in 10 yrs, while only making very reasonable loan payments
I would assume that you could go that route, but don’t quote me on that. I don’t see why it couldn’t work. You may want to research the PSLF as the Trump administration is looking to possibly axe the program. It may not be here ten years from now :-(

For the love of all things holy, go for the NHSC scholarship. It pays full tuition (no cap!), pays for your books, lab fees, etc, and they give you a $1,300 month stipend to live on. It’s a year-for-year commitment for every year they pay for your school. If you receive the scholarship for four years, then you serve in a HPSA of 17 or greater for four years (minimum HPSA score can change).

If that’s not what you want to do, there’s NHSC and IHS loan repayment as well. NHSC loan repayment is better than IHS because NHSC gives you $50k tax free while the IHS loan repayment is only $40,000 and that money is taxable. They’ll give you about $4k extra towards your taxes to try to balance it out a little.
 
would I be correct in assuming that you can get the $40,000 in loan repayment for your first two yrs of service with IHS, but also qualify for PSLF after 10yrs (if you stayed on), so whatever balance is left gets forgiven tax-free? That would be an awesome way to be debt-free in 10 yrs, while only making very reasonable loan payments
I think PSLF is taxable. I haven’t researched it enough to be able to give you a good answer on that front.
 
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