Why should I not go into military medicine?

[rich1234]

Ive read through the pros and cons pages as much as I could but most of it just turns into people arguing back and forth. Im a junior in college right now and have a little bit over a 3.8 and I know that this is quite susceptible to change but my current specialty aspirations are dermatology, plastic surgery, orthopedic surgery, oncology, interventional radiology, and or neurology. Quite broad I know, but I know that Id like to specialize and quite possibly subspecialize. I wanna know the argument for why the military would be bad for me because if physicians salaries are on the decline and in the military you wont start out making 300k a year but atleast you know what your salary will be. Also given the fact that theyll pick up the tab on my years of education.

Any information is very much appreciated so thank you in advance

Rich

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[deuist]

1. Because you will not get to specialize in the military. More likely, you will be forced to spend a few years as a general practitioner before even going to residency. The Air Force does not let people match into derm coming out of medical school. I don't remember seeing any approved spots for plastic, either. I don't know if we even have any interventional radiologists (someone else should chime in).

2. You are correct in noting that some specialties are seeing a decline in the amount of money they are making. But still, the military does not make a whole lot of financial sense for the specialties you listed. See this webpage for a quick financial comparison.

 

[BomberDoc]

dermatology, plastic surgery, orthopedic surgery, oncology, interventional radiology, and or neurology

The military wants/needs primary care docs vastly more than specialists. Getting a competitive specialty is difficult in the military. Being allowed to pursue a fellowship for subspecialization is even more difficult. Based on your current interests (yes, quite broad), ortho is probably the only one for which the military has much need. If you sign up for the military, you will only be allowed to train in a field that they approve. You give up freedom of choice of which specialty you will practice for the rest of your medical career. This is HUGE.

If you end up joining the military and don't get approval to train in your deisred specialty, you may end up stagnating for several years as a General Medical Officer (GMO) after one year of internship. Because of this, I am 4 years behind my peers from medical school. They are finishing residency and I am getting ready to start residency next year. I made an enormous mistake by signing up for the military and am paying for it both now and in the future. I was worried about debt and financial stability. Here is why my thinking was wrong:
I estimate the cost of my education + stipend = approximately $200,000. Then one year of civilian deferred internship = $45,000 before taxes. Active duty pay as a GMO = approximately $75,000-80,000 per year. Let's average at $77,500 x 4 years = $310,000 before taxes. At this point, I finally get to separate from the military. Then 4 years as a civilian resident at $45,000-50,000 per year. Let's average at $47,500 x 4 years = $190,000 before taxes. So 9 years after graduating medical school, I will be a civilian attending in a competitive specialty. Total salary = $545,000. No med school loans saved me $200,000 plus interest.

One of my classmates who stayed civilian borrowed $200,000 for med school, living expenses, etc. Internship + 4 years of residency in the same specialty = $45,000-50,000 per year. Let's average at $47,500 x 5 years = $237,500 before taxes. Now my classmate is an attending in the same competitive specialty. Starting salaries range from $300-500k in this field. Let's average at $400,000 x 4 years and ignore the significant salary increase that comes with partnership, etc. = $1,600,000 before taxes. So 9 years after graduating medical school, my classmate will be an experienced attending partner in a competitive specialty. Total salary = $1,837,500 before taxes if my classmate never sees a salary raise while practicing, which is pretty unrealistic.

My loss for joining the military in dollars... over 1 Million! (very conservative estimate) More importantly, I lost 4 years of experience practicing in my specialty, which puts me significantly behind my peers.

Physician salaries may be on the decline, but you will NEVER see military specialists making more than 1/2 of what civilians make. Family practice docs in the military and civilian worlds do about the same so that is a wash. However, how many civilian FP docs deploy or have someone measure their haircut with a ruler or are told what to do by a nurse or have to run around all day in gas mask and chem suit? Quality of life for the military physician is abysmal compared to the civilian world. Take a long hard look before you sign on the dotted line and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't believe a word your recruiter says. Instead, talk to current active duty physicians in several locations that practice several different specialties. Do your homework. Do not make this decision lightly and do not be afraid of taking on debt to finance your education. You will be able to pay it back and still put food on the table.

 

[DiveMD]

The military wants/needs primary care docs vastly more than specialists. Getting a competitive specialty is difficult in the military. Being allowed to pursue a fellowship for subspecialization is even more difficult. Based on your current interests (yes, quite broad), ortho is probably the only one for which the military has much need. If you sign up for the military, you will only be allowed to train in a field that they approve. You give up freedom of choice of which specialty you will practice for the rest of your medical career. This is HUGE.

If you end up joining the military and don't get approval to train in your deisred specialty, you may end up stagnating for several years as a General Medical Officer (GMO) after one year of internship. Because of this, I am 4 years behind my peers from medical school. They are finishing residency and I am getting ready to start residency next year. I made an enormous mistake by signing up for the military and am paying for it both now and in the future. I was worried about debt and financial stability. Here is why my thinking was wrong:
I estimate the cost of my education + stipend = approximately $200,000. Then one year of civilian deferred internship = $45,000 before taxes. Active duty pay as a GMO = approximately $75,000-80,000 per year. Let's average at $77,500 x 4 years = $310,000 before taxes. At this point, I finally get to separate from the military. Then 4 years as a civilian resident at $45,000-50,000 per year. Let's average at $47,500 x 4 years = $190,000 before taxes. So 9 years after graduating medical school, I will be a civilian attending in a competitive specialty. Total salary = $545,000. No med school loans saved me $200,000 plus interest.

One of my classmates who stayed civilian borrowed $200,000 for med school, living expenses, etc. Internship + 4 years of residency in the same specialty = $45,000-50,000 per year. Let's average at $47,500 x 5 years = $237,500 before taxes. Now my classmate is an attending in the same competitive specialty. Starting salaries range from $300-500k in this field. Let's average at $400,000 x 4 years and ignore the significant salary increase that comes with partnership, etc. = $1,600,000 before taxes. So 9 years after graduating medical school, my classmate will be an experienced attending partner in a competitive specialty. Total salary = $1,837,500 before taxes if my classmate never sees a salary raise while practicing, which is pretty unrealistic.

My loss for joining the military in dollars... over 1 Million! (very conservative estimate) More importantly, I lost 4 years of experience practicing in my specialty, which puts me significantly behind my peers.

Physician salaries may be on the decline, but you will NEVER see military specialists making more than 1/2 of what civilians make. Family practice docs in the military and civilian worlds do about the same so that is a wash. However, how many civilian FP docs deploy or have someone measure their haircut with a ruler or are told what to do by a nurse or have to run around all day in gas mask and chem suit? Quality of life for the military physician is abysmal compared to the civilian world. Take a long hard look before you sign on the dotted line and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't believe a word your recruiter says. Instead, talk to current active duty physicians in several locations that practice several different specialties. Do your homework. Do not make this decision lightly and do not be afraid of taking on debt to finance your education. You will be able to pay it back and still put food on the table.

I agree 100% with this post. I am in the exact same situation....

 

[USAFdoc]

Ive read through the pros and cons pages as much as I could but most of it just turns into people arguing back and forth. Im a junior in college right now and have a little bit over a 3.8 and I know that this is quite susceptible to change but my current specialty aspirations are dermatology, plastic surgery, orthopedic surgery, oncology, interventional radiology, and or neurology. Quite broad I know, but I know that Id like to specialize and quite possibly subspecialize. I wanna know the argument for why the military would be bad for me because if physicians salaries are on the decline and in the military you wont start out making 300k a year but atleast you know what your salary will be. Also given the fact that theyll pick up the tab on my years of education.

Any information is very much appreciated so thank you in advance

Rich

one could write a book giving you an answer.

put it this way...would you hand over the keys to your car to somebody you don't know? Especially if it was your brand new car? Probably NOT. Why then would you hand over a significant portion of your life and career to soembody (milmed) that has proven to be irresponsible with that responsibility? Joining at this point (current state of milmed) means you give them the "keys" to your specialty, lifestyle, paycheck, home of residence, staffing decisions etc.

there is only one good reason to join at this point and that is a DEEP, DEEP, DEEP desire to serve your country in this capacity NO MATTER WHAT.

that is a honorable reason, but believe me, milmed will likely NOT BE HONORABLE in their actions. It is a one sided relationship.

 

[deuist]

If I had found this forum when I was a junior in college, I never would have signed up. Instead, I stumbled upon SDN's forums too late in the game.

 

[BomberDoc]

If I had found this forum when I was a junior in college, I never would have signed up. Instead, I stumbled upon SDN's forums too late in the game.

I absolutely agree. Instead, I made the mistake and now hopefully serve as a model of what not to do. All pre-med and med students should be shown both sides of the coin.

 

[edinOH]

$150,000+ educational debt seems like alot to an aspiring medical student. At least it did to me. I was prior enlisted and strongly considered HPSP. Ultimately decided against it. Great decision.

I can't really add alot to the previous post regarding the financial opportunity cost related to military vs civilian financed medical education. I think that post is dead-on. What I can add is I have my $700 or so per month student loan payments set up on automatic payment from my account and I don't even miss it. Don't let $700-1,000/month sway your decision. It is peanuts compared to what military medicine will "cost" you in the long run.

 

[Ex-44E3A]

dermatology, plastic surgery, orthopedic surgery, oncology, interventional radiology, and or neurology

With that range of specialties, a quick review of the numbers should be all it takes to dissuade you from this course of action.

Adding the lifestyle, command, AHLTA, deployment, etc, etc "issues" added the scales should tip them against this decision so dramatically that they fly right off the table and onto the floor.

 

[g293]

One of the biggest drawbacks to HPSP is that you are signing on and then have a long delay before entering active duty-at least 4 years of school, maybe more if you are deferred to civilian training. You don't know what the future will hold-more deployments, more GMO/Flight Surgeon requirements, less specialist needs, whatever. Would you sign a contract to buy a car 4 years from now sight unseen??

Take out the loans, pick your specialty, train where you want then look into FAP if you think you want to serve in the military. At least then you have some control.

 

[Galo]

Excellent advice why you should not join the military with aspirations of being a physician.

There are many other reasons, and reading the forum more thoroughly will yield them despite what you will see arguments as just personal attacks by idiots who really speak with no experience other that misguided patriotism and ignorance.

You really will give up too many freedoms and may never end up doing what you want as a physician, if you join the military.

 

[Croooz]

1. Get accepted to medical school.
2. Once accepted pay your way with loans.
3. Match into the residency you decide at that time.
4. At that time look into FAP.

If you're still interested the military will be there. However you will have more control of your initial training. Once you join at least you will be the physician you chose. The reality is you truly limit yourself joining under HPSP.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

What a shock. Another post on this forum with no "pro's" listed. So either--

A. SDN members and posters are not generalizable to the population of miltary medical personnel, (and it is heavily overrepresented by angry current and former miltary docs) or

B. They are generalizable, meaning the vast majority of individuals in military medicine are disgruntled--and may have a reason to be. (I am not saying they don't)

It would be an interesting study, however.

 

[g293]

What a shock. Another post on this forum with no "pro's" listed. So either--

A. SDN members and posters are not generalizable to the population of miltary medical personnel, (and it is heavily overrepresented by angry current and former miltary docs) or

B. They are generalizable, meaning the vast majority of individuals in military medicine are disgruntled--and may have a reason to be. (I am not saying they don't)

It would be an interesting study, however.

What "pro's" are you expecting? There was a nice thread several months ago about the pros of military medicine-I and many others posted there. Do a search and see what was said.

 

[BomberDoc]

Another reason: People that are holier than thou or more patriotic than though because you don't like working in a broken system and have the courage to admit it. Typically these folks sit on their hands and then take credit for your work at the end of the day. See 2 of the previous 3 posts. If you join the military, you will be working with, or worse, for these people.

 

[deuist]

Another reason: People that are holier than thou or more patriotic than though because you don't like working in a broken system and have the courage to admit it. Typically these folks sit on their hands and then take credit for your work at the end of the day. See 2 of the previous 3 posts. If you join the military, you will be working with, or worse, for these people.

So true! Here is an actual comment I received yesterday based on my number crunching of the HPSP program: "you people are a bunch of unappreciated unpatriotic mother puckers"

 

[megadon]

whoa, I understand what everyone above has been saying. It's all good advice. So where are the pro-people? Okay here I am. I already have seven years in, so I'm in a completely different boat. I already know what joker system I am going to play in, I know the limitations of the military (starting today, you can't do this, even though it contradicts instructions from higher), and have thought, I liked the military, didn't like my job.

So yeah, I think I'm hitching up for 13, but I only owe four, one less than my last gig. Sure, the numbers get screwed once I do an internship and make a residency.

Why am I in it, I like the military, I like the family part of it. Man, I was close with the guys on the boat and their families, not so as a contractor. 13 more years to a guaranteed pension (though let me tell you, I am not betting my retirement on that, I've got some other money squirelled away).

Us prior folk are a different crowd, we've seen the screwjob you can get, and at least know what's out there and have decided its okay. Maybe I bet on the wrong horse, that's why I'm glad I didn't go to USUHS.

 

[AF M4]

In the long run, you will always be dumb. Factor in the specialty pays and other residuals, you *******

The military wouldn't want you anyway. With your lousy MCAT and PT scores. Please do not apply to USUHS, your cowardice and physical/mental weakness is not needed in its ranks.

Please do not feed the trolls.

 

[DCM]

Financially, it is either not beneficial or a wash. But either way you will do fine and depending on your personality you may value not having financial pressure during training, especially if you are trying to accomplish something else like get married etc...

I have written this on other threads: The best person to join is someone who is interested in the military and maybe thought about doing a stint before medical school or a reserve program anyway. By doing HPSP you can fulfill both interests and get some benefit for it. Don't do it for any other reason than interest, you'll regret it.

The specialties you listed are all competitive no matter what. The Air Force seems to be the most limited in training, but if you are good enough to get the specialties as a civilian you could get them in the Army or Navy.

Finally, you could always join, do four years of GMO/Flight Surgeon/Dive Doc for fun and then get out and go back to residency.

 

[Mirror Form]

I already have seven years in, so I'm in a completely different boat. I already know what joker system I am going to play in, I know the limitations of the military (starting today, you can't do this, even though it contradicts instructions from higher), and have thought, I liked the military, didn't like my job.

It's true that prior service people have a better idea of what to expect. That said, you still don't understand fully what you're getting into.

 

[adismo]

3 reasons come to mind: Snipers, IEDs, Iran.

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Another reason: People that are holier than thou or more patriotic than though because you don't like working in a broken system and have the courage to admit it. Typically these folks sit on their hands and then take credit for your work at the end of the day. See 2 of the previous 3 posts. If you join the military, you will be working with, or worse, for these people.

Well, I hope I am not holier than thou. However, if I weigh out the pro's and cons, AND I accept the problems with the broken system, I beileve I can still make a difference within that system. In other words, of course I have the courage to admit the problems are there. It would be silly to go in with blinders on. I think it's the difference between feeling that the miltary is a calling verses a job. I too have worked with nurses in the Army who are in charge of entire departments and spend most of their time scouring over progress notes and hallways making sure the hospital is ready for the next JACHO inspection--and can't even run an IV. I usually just find like minded people to work around them and make fun of them on my break time. The soldiers and their familes are worth it.

 

[rich1234]

What did you do, just look at a list of the top 6 average salaries in medicine, and "develop" an interest in those? Lordy.

Pretty superficial question, but if im considering the military and medicine then pay isnt really my number one motivator. Even if it was, it doesnt matter anyhow.

 

[adismo]

the uniform gets you chicks though

go for it

 

[edinOH]

In the long run, you will always be dumb. Factor in the specialty pays and other residuals, you *******

Nice. Must have struck a nerve.

 

[Mirror Form]

the uniform gets you chicks though

go for it

Yeah, good luck meeting chicks at fort sill.

 

[West Side]

There are more than enough egotistical, money hungry, self-serving idiots in today's military. Do this nation a big favor, and don't bother.

Why should you not?

Who in their right mind could pass up the opportunity to work with a gem like this?

 

[deuist]

Why should you not?

Who in their right mind could pass up the opportunity to work with a gem like this?

Yep, he'll fit right in with the screamers.

 

[BomberDoc]

the uniform gets you chicks though

go for it

OK, I can't believe that I'm actually going to cite a positive, but the flightsuit really does pull chicks. Walk into a bar (yeah, I know you're not supposed to in uniform) with a handful of aviators and you'll be surrounded by girls.

 

[AF M4]

OK, I can't believe that I'm actually going to cite a positive, but the flightsuit really does pull chicks. Walk into a bar (yeah, I know you're not supposed to in uniform) with a handful of aviators and you'll be surrounded by girls.

Thanks BomberDoc, you just made my day.

 

[studentathlete]

I'm also loooking at the possibility of going into military medicine. I'm a recent college grad, starting med school in the fall. I took a year off and I'm working at Walter Reed Army Institute of Research. I work with Army docs (Prevmed, FP, Infectious disease) and discussed whether I should go the HPSP route. They all claim to be very satisfied with their jobs.

Here's a list of reasons for accepting the HPSP:
1. Financial Stability during medical school (this is important for me because I'm getting married this summer; you may be in a similar situation)
2. Leadership opportunity
3. Change: a two-edged sword. You may like moving around or changing environments every couple years, or you may hate it. or both.
3. Competitiveness of residencies. The specialties that you listed are among the most competitive. In the Army, the number of applicants per residency position in those areas is much lower, possibly increasing your chances of getting one

Just as a side note, your chances of getting stuck as a GMO/flight surgeon/dive doc are lower in the Army than in the other branches of service.

 

[West Side]

I work with Army docs (Prevmed, FP, Infectious disease) and discussed whether I should go the HPSP route. They all claim to be very satisfied with their jobs.
...
3. Competitiveness of residencies. The specialties that you listed are among the most competitive. In the Army, the number of applicants per residency position in those areas is much lower, possibly increasing your chances of getting one

Just a quick observation, but you're comparing your experience with primary care providers and information relevant to specialists. Doesn't invalidate your point, but just think that's an important distinction. From a purely financial perspective (which appears to be one of the motivating factors in the OP's decision), the two cannot be compared. FPs in the military are comparably compensated to their civilian brethren (although, I would submit, not enough to compensate for all of the lifestyle drawbacks). Specialists: see link above.

 

[deuist]

I'm also loooking at the possibility of going into military medicine. I'm a recent college grad, starting med school in the fall. I took a year off and I'm working at Walter Reed Army Institute of Research. I work with Army docs (Prevmed, FP, Infectious disease) and discussed whether I should go the HPSP route. They all claim to be very satisfied with their jobs.

Here's a list of reasons for accepting the HPSP:
1. Financial Stability during medical school (this is important for me because I'm getting married this summer; you may be in a similar situation)
2. Leadership opportunity
3. Change: a two-edged sword. You may like moving around or changing environments every couple years, or you may hate it. or both.
3. Competitiveness of residencies. The specialties that you listed are among the most competitive. In the Army, the number of applicants per residency position in those areas is much lower, possibly increasing your chances of getting one

Just as a side note, your chances of getting stuck as a GMO/flight surgeon/dive doc are lower in the Army than in the other branches of service.

1. You'll be financially stable on loans, too.
2. Don't kid yourself. You'll be an officer in the military, but you won't be in charge of anything.
3. You already addressed this issue. Just remember, you're the one getting married. Is your spouse ready to move every 3 years?
4. I wouldn't hedge my future on what may or may not be competitive on any particular year. Other threads have already mentioned that the popularity and competitiveness fluctuate wildly from year to year.

 

[West Side]

1. Because you will not get to specialize in the military. More likely, you will be forced to spend a few years as a general practitioner before even going to residency. The Air Force does not let people match into derm coming out of medical school. I don't remember seeing any approved spots for plastic, either. I don't know if we even have any interventional radiologists (someone else should chime in).

2. You are correct in noting that some specialties are seeing a decline in the amount of money they are making. But still, the military does not make a whole lot of financial sense for the specialties you listed. See this webpage for a quick financial comparison.

Hmm...4400 appears to have deleted all of his posts. Too bad.

In the event anyone cares, or needs to be reminded that the military isn't a financial decision, the link in the quote above does not analyze the pay difference correctly. He assumes that a civilian would pay off his debt wholly. That's simply not true. The civilian would make monthly payments that amortize over the course of 30 years (and you should do so, as there's very little money that comes cheaper).

If you take a look at the CASHFLOWS to each respective candidate, the pictures becomes significantly different. It's unreasonable to assume a civilian doctor would not see pay bumps after residency. I've figured a safe 6% annual raise.

Here's the military FP student's cashflows, cribbed right from the webpage above:

M1 $14,400

M2 $14,400

M3 $14,400

M4 $14,400

R1 $63,695

R2 $69,995

R3 $75,276

Year 8 $92,829

Year 9 $97,192

Year 10 $97,192

Year 11 $113,227

Year 12 $144,000

Year 13 $152,640

Year 14 $161,798

TOTAL $1,125,444


Now, what the link didn't take into account is that the civilian doesn't pay his entire salary to his school loans, he pays but ~$15K to them (6.5% interest rate, amortized over 30 years). Here's his series of cashflows look like:

Loan Payments Salary Take Home

M1 $- $-

M2 $- $-

M3 $- $-

M4 $- $-

R1 $(15,776) $45,000 $29,224

R2 $(15,776) $47,000 $31,224

R3 $(15,776) $49,000 $33,224

Year 8 $(15,776) $144,000 $128,224

Year 9 $(15,776) $152,640 $136,864

Year 10 $(15,776) $161,798 $146,022

Year 11 $(15,776) $171,506 $155,730

Year 12 $(15,776) $181,797 $166,020

Year 13 $(15,776) $192,704 $176,928

Year 14 $(15,776) $204,267 $188,490

TOTAL $1,191,948


for a difference of $66K 10 years out of school. And because he'll have been esconced in his practice for longer than the military student, he'll probably pull away further as time goes on.

The difference, of course, is further exagerrated where military folk make actual fractions of their civilian brethren. Thought I'd throw that in, because I've seen a lot of misdirected analysis over my time here.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

Yes, being a civilian means taking on debt. No, that does not really affect your financial standing later in life. The majority of doctors do just fine financially, and most of them had student loan balances at graduation. You're talking about $15K a year, which is erased almost immediately upon completion of your residency.

 

[BomberDoc]

I love playing with excel as much as the next ex-engineer, but here is the big picture analysis. If you join the military for financial reasons, you are a complete and utter *****. Period.

 

[West Side]

I love playing with excel as much as the next ex-engineer, but here is the big picture analysis. If you join the military for financial reasons, you are a complete and utter *****. Period.

Agree 100%, but just wanted to dispell the notion that FP doctors make more in the military. At best, it's maybe even, and that's of course not taking into account the myriad disadvantages of practicing in the military.

This was an exercise to illustrate how small a role debt really plays in the end analysis. It seems like a lot of those considering HPSP suspect because they're not paying out of pocket, it's a better deal, but aren't equipped with an ability to make that decision.

 

[mumiitroll]

your analysis is flawed, it is no different from the way a military recruiter or a car salesman would "drop numbers". sure, you can spread your loans over 30 years. but does it mean you'll have a richer lifestyle? as a "young" civilian dr, you'll have 2wk vacations, so whether you pay out your loans or put that money in the bank, you will not be able to spend it. only as you become established, do you get a big mansion, 10wk+ vacations, sailboat,etc.

but during med school, you'll be even more screwed if you take out loans. for example if my parents pay for school, then i have to use their credit cards(i dont have any of my own, i mean i do but no money on them), and then they know everything about my personal life. how does it feel to take a girl out on vacation with your parents' credit cards? i'm not even talking about anything more serious, like getting into a car accident or getting arrested for drunkenness and having all the bills mailed to your parents. With a $1000/month stipend i can at least avoid this embarassment. if you just do hpsp+internship+4yrs FS, you'll have a great time during the duration of those 9 years. You'll have a middle-class income of ~$80k/yr, you get to travel, to ride a fighter jet, and any women you meet will be impressed by your future earning potential and by your cool personality. You will probably get married at the end of those 9yrs and be more knowledgeable about what region of the country to pick for your civilian residency.
but if you just go to med school on loans, you will probably live like a bitch throughout your residency, thats the same 9 years. you will probably marry an ugly woman, and then when you start getting $$, you'll divorce her and marry a vapid ***** and pay alimony to the ugly one.

 

[DiveMD]

your analysis is flawed, it is no different from the way a military recruiter or a car salesman would "drop numbers". sure, you can spread your loans over 30 years. but does it mean you'll have a richer lifestyle? as a "young" civilian dr, you'll have 2wk vacations, so whether you pay out your loans or put that money in the bank, you will not be able to spend it. only as you become established, do you get a big mansion, 10wk+ vacations, sailboat,etc.

but during med school, you'll be even more screwed if you take out loans. for example if my parents pay for school, then i have to use their credit cards(i dont have any of my own, i mean i do but no money on them), and then they know everything about my personal life. how does it feel to take a girl out on vacation with your parents' credit cards? i'm not even talking about anything more serious, like getting into a car accident or getting arrested for drunkenness and having all the bills mailed to your parents. With a $1000/month stipend i can at least avoid this embarassment. if you just do hpsp+internship+4yrs FS, you'll have a great time (what a joke!!!)during the duration of those 9 years. You'll have a middle-class income of ~$80k/yr, you get to travel (to Iraq), to ride a fighter jet, and any women you meet will be impressed by your future earning potential and by your cool personality. You will probably get married at the end of those 9yrs and be more knowledgeable about what region of the country to pick for your civilian residency.
but if you just go to med school on loans, you will probably live like a bitch throughout your residency, thats the same 9 years. you will probably marry an ugly woman, and then when you start getting $$, you'll divorce her and marry a vapid ***** and pay alimony to the ugly one.

This is the most childish and superficial analysis I have ever read in this forum. Can you be more speculative? Sounds like a recruiter to me!

 

[deuist]

your analysis is flawed, it is no different from the way a military recruiter or a car salesman would "drop numbers". sure, you can spread your loans over 30 years. but does it mean you'll have a richer lifestyle? as a "young" civilian dr, you'll have 2wk vacations, so whether you pay out your loans or put that money in the bank, you will not be able to spend it. only as you become established, do you get a big mansion, 10wk+ vacations, sailboat,etc.

but during med school, you'll be even more screwed if you take out loans. for example if my parents pay for school, then i have to use their credit cards(i dont have any of my own, i mean i do but no money on them), and then they know everything about my personal life. how does it feel to take a girl out on vacation with your parents' credit cards? i'm not even talking about anything more serious, like getting into a car accident or getting arrested for drunkenness and having all the bills mailed to your parents. With a $1000/month stipend i can at least avoid this embarassment. if you just do hpsp+internship+4yrs FS, you'll have a great time during the duration of those 9 years. You'll have a middle-class income of ~$80k/yr, you get to travel, to ride a fighter jet, and any women you meet will be impressed by your future earning potential and by your cool personality. You will probably get married at the end of those 9yrs and be more knowledgeable about what region of the country to pick for your civilian residency.
but if you just go to med school on loans, you will probably live like a bitch throughout your residency, thats the same 9 years. you will probably marry an ugly woman, and then when you start getting $$, you'll divorce her and marry a vapid ***** and pay alimony to the ugly one.

I don't know if you were being serious in this post, but I sure did get a good laugh out of it.

 

[46&2]

 

[BomberDoc]

I suspect mumiitroll and 4400 are probably pals. Maybe when they finish high school, they'll be a little more mature.

 

[sethco]

that was the best picture response I have seen in a while

 

[AF M4]

your analysis is flawed, it is no different from the way a military recruiter or a car salesman would "drop numbers". sure, you can spread your loans over 30 years. but does it mean you'll have a richer lifestyle? as a "young" civilian dr, you'll have 2wk vacations, so whether you pay out your loans or put that money in the bank, you will not be able to spend it. only as you become established, do you get a big mansion, 10wk+ vacations, sailboat,etc.

but during med school, you'll be even more screwed if you take out loans. for example if my parents pay for school, then i have to use their credit cards(i dont have any of my own, i mean i do but no money on them), and then they know everything about my personal life. how does it feel to take a girl out on vacation with your parents' credit cards? i'm not even talking about anything more serious, like getting into a car accident or getting arrested for drunkenness and having all the bills mailed to your parents. With a $1000/month stipend i can at least avoid this embarassment. if you just do hpsp+internship+4yrs FS, you'll have a great time during the duration of those 9 years. You'll have a middle-class income of ~$80k/yr, you get to travel, to ride a fighter jet, and any women you meet will be impressed by your future earning potential and by your cool personality. You will probably get married at the end of those 9yrs and be more knowledgeable about what region of the country to pick for your civilian residency.
but if you just go to med school on loans, you will probably live like a bitch throughout your residency, thats the same 9 years. you will probably marry an ugly woman, and then when you start getting $$, you'll divorce her and marry a vapid ***** and pay alimony to the ugly one.

Future earning potential and cool personality my balls. AF M4 Junior is all I need to impress the ladies.

 

[Ex-44E3A]

This is the most childish and superficial analysis I have ever read in this forum. Can you be more speculative? Sounds like a recruiter to me!

I suspect mumiitroll and 4400 are probably pals. Maybe when they finish high school, they'll be a little more mature.

Hey now... what's wrong with y'all? Don't hate the playa'... hate the game. I personally think he's "representing" quite adequately.

Future earning potential and cool personality my balls. AF M4 Junior is all I need to impress the ladies.

I've got my implant for that... but that's just how I roll.