Why should I pretend to be empathetic if I'm not?

[deleted77919]

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With a digital exam you are learning an important skill.

I think empathy is an important skill.

I don't think I am learning empathy by writing papers where I wax idiotic about the magical physician partient relationship. Perhaps video tapes of real encounters would actually be useful (I understand how these would be difficult to get because as soon as you get consent and the pt knows they are being video taped the interaction changes). I don't mind learning the skill as much as I mind my time beingw asted with, as Law2Doc put it in the other thread "window dressing" or as I'll put it "lip service."

 

[Arctic Char]

lots of good points here. i'll just say to surebreC that i understand your frustration. i also got knocked in a similar situation.

 

[OncoCaP]

With a digital exam you are learning an important skill.

I think empathy is an important skill.

I don't think I am learning empathy by writing papers where I wax idiotic about the magical physician partient relationship. Perhaps video tapes of real encounters would actually be useful (I understand how these would be difficult to get because as soon as you get consent and the pt knows they are being video taped the interaction changes). I don't mind learning the skill as much as I mind my time beingw asted with, as Law2Doc put it in the other thread "window dressing" or as I'll put it "lip service."

Yes, agreed. The OP complained about getting unfairly graded on empathy (or apathy?). Seems like it should be possible to take whatever constructive criticism may or may not be there and moving on? My wife is in healthcare and some of the things that her patients have done are well beyond unfair or a waste of time (kicking the counter and screeming at the top of their lungs, etc.). Life is no so ideal....

As far as writing papers about the magical relationship ... maybe that's not the best way. I guess I would hestitate to say what the best approach is. To me this sounds much easier than some of the medical dilemnas I expect to face (patient needs ____, but that's not available, in the budget, etc., what do I tell this person now?).

 

[Kiroro]

I can totally understand what you mean.
I guess empathy is one of those other things that we need to fake in order to be a doctor. Kinda like we faked "wanting to help people" at our interviews at med schools.
Besides, just think that showing "empathy" which is free is gonna get you a job that pays more than 200K, may help you to become more empathetic 😀 ?
After all, that's a pretty sweet deal.

 

[kirexhana]

wait a minute... you guys get graded on this as in.... there are GRADES? this class isn't pass fail for you?

ooooooh, if that's the case, you have my sympathies, because doctoring courses like this just don't gain anything if they have grades attributed to them. our "practice course" is pass fail, the only thing the standardized patients do is tell us how to improve for next time, we dont get graded by them or anything like that, just advice.

 

[peacefuljourney]

This is such a great thread. I'm in Europe and we don't have empathy training - doctors = gods here.

But we do get to learn by watching our superiors. Here's 2 examples I'll share with you.

While doing a gastroscopy (without meds), the male patient begins to gag (surprise). The chief surgeon responds with 'shut up and stop making such noise. You're acting like a women!'

Or, wait. Here's another one. Surgeon walks in on rounds (so 15+ people in white trailing after him) and approaches diabetic male patient: 'looks like we're going to have to take this foot off and... pause... and likely the other leg as well - probably about up to the knee.' Turns around and walks out with everyone else following. Oh, yes. This was the first time the patient heard about this!

There's empathy for you... So, placing the cat example in the context of lack of empathy is pretty funny.

S-

 

[OncoCaP]

This is such a great thread. I'm in Europe and we don't have empathy training - doctors = gods here.

But we do get to learn by watching our superiors. Here's 2 examples I'll share with you.

While doing a gastroscopy (without meds), the male patient begins to gag (surprise). The chief surgeon responds with 'shut up and stop making such noise. You're acting like a women!'

Or, wait. Here's another one. Surgeon walks in on rounds (so 15+ people in white trailing after him) and approaches diabetic male patient: 'looks like we're going to have to take this foot off and... pause... and likely the other leg as well - probably about up to the knee.' Turns around and walks out with everyone else following. Oh, yes. This was the first time the patient heard about this!

There's empathy for you... So, placing the cat example in the context of lack of empathy is pretty funny.

S-

Wow! Where do you live? I lived in Germany in the 70s and the doctors were very nice ... well, except for the time I took small change from the pediatrician's home (her office was build into the side of her home) and she told my mom I was going to grow up to become a criminal (I have never even had a speeding ticket!). I remember having nasal polyps removed, my brother had his tonsils taken out, and my sister had a skull fracture (in additional to all the usual kiddo ailments) so we had plenty of exposure. They were easily available, competent, and nice. However, that was 30 years ago, so I'm not sure if its still that way.

Also, don't confuse training with what doctors actually do. In the U.S., we have plenty of doctors who are unempathic (and incompetent docs as well). I guess the training is designed to reduce the the numbers of undesirable physicians. I'm not sure if the training is working. Perhaps the medical school admissions criteria for finding empathic people are making more of a difference. It does seem that the younger physicians I have dealt with tended to be more empathetic, although I vividly remember one very successful GP who was usually pretty nice laughing at a patient's somewhat embarrassing condition (right in front of the patient).

 

[vtucci]

I understand your frustration. In many cases, you will have a relationship with a patient and will know more about them and their preferences. We get graded on these exercises as well.

Personally, I would not want anyone to put a hand on my leg in attempt to comfort me. It is so variable as to what the mock patients want, what the professors want.

However, empathy is important in our relationships and interaction with patients. As was mentioned previously, the most common reason a physician gets sued is the patient's belief that the physician was uncaring or uninterested in their care.

If you have to fake empathy, you do not belong in medicine to begin with-- there are easier ways to make a lot of money. I know-- go into law.

 

[Dookter]

OK, I just got an evaluation from a standardized patient yesterday, and it totally shocked me. Everything I have been taught to do and thought went great, she trashed. And the things that I would have said I did wrong, she did not mention. Talk about confusing!

 

[OncoCaP]

OK, I just got an evaluation from a standardized patient yesterday, and it totally shocked me. Everything I have been taught to do and thought went great, she trashed. And the things that I would have said I did wrong, she did not mention. Talk about confusing!

Do y'all have an instructor that supervises this? Any clarification you could get?

(Maybe this is similar to the judging of extemporaneous speech or debate -- subjective factors come into play?)

 

[pillowhead]

you've got to start learning to show empathy to bad actors (i.e. standardized patients) if for no other reason that you will need to pass step 2cs in your 4th year. no one particularly enjoys standardized patients, but sometimes the path of least resistance is to just do it and take the whole thing with a grain of salt.

 

[Dookter]

Do y'all have an instructor that supervises this? Any clarification you could get?

(Maybe this is similar to the judging of extemporaneous speech or debate -- subjective factors come into play?)

They are videotaped. So we watched part of the videos in small groups. Since I seemed a little confused by my evaluation, my teacher took the tape and is watching it at home. I should hear back soon. Both of my instructors seem to think some of the evaluation was off since it did not vibe with what they saw in the little bit of the video we watched, but we'll see. It's just confusing as a learning experience to think one way and get evaluated another way. Hopefully the teacher will tell me one way or the other.

 

[OncoCaP]

They are videotaped. So we watched part of the videos in small groups. Since I seemed a little confused by my evaluation, my teacher took the tape and is watching it at home. I should hear back soon. Both of my instructors seem to think some of the evaluation was off since it did not vibe with what they saw in the little bit of the video we watched, but we'll see. It's just confusing as a learning experience to think one way and get evaluated another way. Hopefully the teacher will tell me one way or the other.

Sounds like you'll either get a grading correction or get the clarification you need.

 

[78222]

I wish we our evaluations were videotaped. Right now, if we get a bad eval, its our word versus the standarized patient - and as far as I can tell, we are graded based on what they write 🙁

 

[Dookter]

Sounds like you'll either get a grading correction or get the clarification you need.

Well it's just pass/fail. It's not about the grade as much as it is about me just being confused over what I am [apparently] doing wrong.

 

[kirexhana]

really? mines was really nice to me. but.. i only got like one word answers on the eval. good/excellent.

 

[8744]

I don't get it ... you do a digital exam on a 70 year old male weighing in at 450 pounds and your arms are too short so you really need to strain to get in there or calling codes on a 5 year-old-drowning victim and that's supposed to be fun. Wearing a flashing LED on your lab coat to enterain the sick peds or asking a few questions about a dead cat -- that's oppressive. I'm lost in this logic. 😕

As far as the standardized patients go, when we learn how to do anything, whether riding a bike, driving a car, integrating sin(theta)/theta*d(theta), or whatever, we more or less follow a formula that illustrates an approach that usually works and that we are told to follow. We don't start out driving a car talking on a cell phone going down a freeway. We start out in a parking lot. Yes, it can be a little boring but at worst we'll knock over a trash can; it's a reflection of our stage of knowledge. As we learn more, we can do things more quickly, simultaneously, and with our own style. It sounds like practicing on standardized patients is no different.

Personally, I'm getting myself into this field because I have a job I think I can do well here, there is a need, and that it is for a good cause. I'm going into this with the idea that whether I need to shovel feces out of a punctured abdomen or console a sobbing pregnant teenager, it's what I'm there for and if I didn't want to do the things that the job requires, I would find something else that I did like. Obviously there will be some parts of the job that will appeal to me more than others.

I'm not going to pretend that I know so much more than my med school professors that I need to critique everything they do as to whether or not they are teaching the material correctly. I'll learn as much as I can and move on to the next phase of my education and career. Sure, I have my preferences but at the end of the day, I give my professors the benefit of the doubt. I know I don't do everything perfectly either.

Uh, he was spoofing the movie "Office Space."

As to the magical formula for talking to patients, there isn't really one except the standard "History of Present Illness." How they teach you to interact during standardized patient exams (except if they are just teaching the mechanics of the interview which is useful) is nothing like how it will go down in the real world. Nothing at all. You are never going to exude or even attempt to exude that much caring or empathy. Your patients will spot you for a fraud instantly.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

We'll be seeing standardized patients and getting graded on our empathy level as part of Step II, so that might be a pretty good reason.

 

[OncoCaP]

As to the magical formula for talking to patients, there isn't really one except the standard "History of Present Illness." How they teach you to interact during standardized patient exams (except if they are just teaching the mechanics of the interview which is useful) is nothing like how it will go down in the real world. Nothing at all. You are never going to exude or even attempt to exude that much caring or empathy. Your patients will spot you for a fraud instantly.

Based on my own personal experience, I'm under the impression that physicians work under different conditions and have different styles, including when it comes to empathy or lack thereof. The physicians that I personally know show empathy in all areas of their life ... their work, home, community, etc. Yes, there are plenty who don't (and plenty who don't know how to do their jobs well despite plenty of book knowledge).

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0843/is_n2_v18/ai_12001040

"If physicians have good clinical skills but bad bedside and office manners, they will lose patients. As competition increases, organizations are increasingly realizing that they must address these problems and solve them quickly before patients take their business elsewhere."

"A survey of more than 500 patients "...found that 85% either had changed their physician in the past five years or were thinking of doing so. The main reasons cited for changing physician were related to the style or personality of the physician.... "

References

[1] Clearly, P., and McNeil, B. "Patient Satisfaction as an Indicator of Quality Care." Inquiry 25:25-36, Spring 1988.

[2] Furlow, T. "Clinical Etiquette: A Critical Primer." JAMA 260(17):2559, Nov 4, 1988.

[3] Barbieri, S. "Why Doctor-Patient Rapport is Ailing." The Orlando Sentinel Section E, p.1., Aug. 15, 1991.

[4] Moseley, R., and Cheong, J. "A Breakdown of Trust." The Orlando Sentinel Section G, p.1, Aug. 18, 1991.

Barbara J. Linney is Director of Career Development, American College of Physician Executives, Tampa, Fla.

http://www.physiciansnews.com/cover/706.html
"... A growing body of evidence links effective physician-patient communication to desirable outcomes such as lower patient stress levels and improved adherence to treatment, higher physician satisfaction, and fewer medical malpractice lawsuits. The paternalistic model of physician-patient interaction has years ago yielded to one that encourages active involvement of patients in their care management, and patients are now being offered consumer-directed models of health insurance that encourage them to "shop around" for physicians, while interest is increasing by federal and private health insurers in physician performance measurement, reporting and quality incentives.

"These developments are driving what some experts regard as a paradigm shift in medical education: training medical students, residents and physicians in "best practice" communication skills, restoring the value of empathy and rapport-building between physicians and patients – once common in medical practice, but now perhaps crowded out by managed care’s toll on physician time and resources. ...

"The Institute of Medicine, in a 2004 report, Improving Medical Education: Enhancing the Behavioral and Social Science Content of Medical School Curricula, noted that half of all causes of morbidity and mortality in the U.S. are linked to behavioral and social factors and lamented that the medical profession has yet to successfully incorporate knowledge of psychological and social variables into standard medical practice. ...

"Interpersonal and communication skills have in recent years become a core focus of medical education, with the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) and the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) having identified them as core competencies. The National Board of Medical Examiners last year added a Communication and Interpersonal Skills (CIS) Subcomponent to the United States Medical Licensing Examination, whereby performance is assessed by standardized patients – actors trained to role play as patients – who use rating scales based upon national consensus statements on essential communication skills in questioning, information-sharing, and professional manner and rapport. ...

It's hard to predict the future of the medical profession, but there are some important and powerful folks who are driving changes that might just put a greater premium on empathy and caring for the patient. We shall see.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Some thoughts:

1. It is quite true that accrediting bodies demand a curriculum in this area. Thus, complaining to your school and trying to get them to get rid of this type of training is not going to work. Trying to get them to make the course better might, but I don't think very many of the people organizing these courses routinely have to give families bad news.

2. Asking someone to write a report about empathy is beyond ridiculous.

3. In my business, it's pretty hard to NOT have empathy for a family whose baby is about to die or is severely brain-damaged, etc. One hardly needs to fake empathy in this situation. What is useful is to teach students/residents/fellows to relate to families in a way that is effective at getting your message across ("it's really time to do what is best for your baby..."), that doesn't make families feel worse (don't say "now you have a little angel in heaven" or "it was for the best" or "you're young, you can have another") or is confusing ("your baby isn't with us any more" - What does that mean to a family? Do they think that the nurses lost the baby in the elevator? Just say "your baby died" and then start explaining what happened).

4. Most of this is best learned by watching and doing, just like procedure skills. There is a minimal role for talks, etc, but even these are best at the side of the incubator, not in a classroom

5. Psychiatrists shouldn't be the ones teaching this - it should be those of us whose daily work is in delivering really bad news and explaining things to parents.

6. Failure to communicate in my business doesn't usually cause lawsuits, it causes a lot of unneeded pain for babies as their parents don't understand what the right thing to do is. A few families can't be reached by any style of communication and will reject anything you say. However, most can accept the inevitable if you learn what to say and how to say it. I spend a lot of time on rounds on this point - I don't think it's time that is wasted. We don't role play, I don't ask for written assignments and I don't pimp about this. I just talk and show students/residents what I do. I hope it is useful.

Regards

OBP

 

[deleted77919]

I couldn't agree more with most of what you said. I know that sooner or later I'll be thrust in a role where I have to actually deal with pateints and families who are really suffering. I seriously doubt I will think back to a silly essay I wrote. It's unfortunate that bedside learning can creat aditional awkwardness for the individuals involved (Hi, I'm about to deliver bad news and wanted med student Johnny around so he could see how it's done). Perhaps the best would be to hear more from people who actually do this on a daily basis.

 

[swpm]

Holy ****, 70 posts into this thread, and no one's suggested that the OP take his shocking lack of empathy into the low-human-contact worlds of pathology, radiology, or anesthesia?

What is SDN coming to? 🙂

 

[Dookter]

Holy ****, 70 posts into this thread, and no one's suggested that the OP take his shocking lack of empathy into the low-human-contact worlds of pathology, radiology, or anesthesia?

What is SDN coming to? 🙂

I think people are reluctant to say that b/c most of us have been there. Learning to show empathy is very important in medicine, but getting grilled about it from a fake patient would annoy just about anyone. Going into a place with low human contact is probably not the answer. Going into a place with real human contact for several years of professional development is the answer.

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

3rd year here. Being empathic with patients has three major advantages that I've seen so far in my limited clinical experience:

1) Patients are happy, and therefore are more likely to treat you better, which makes you happy. Happiness is a precious thing 3rd year.

2) Patients are happy, and therefore are more likely to DO WHAT YOU TELL THEM. Cannot be overemphasized.

3) Patients are happy, and therefore want to see you in the future. This is good for income, good for happiness (see #1), and decreases the chance of getting sued. All good things.

But I've totally forgotten everything they taught me in pre-clinical. I just try to be the doctor that I would want to have for myself. Common sense, really. This might mean that if I see someone whiny but not angry, I'll give them a verbal kick in the nuts.

 

[Gut Shot]

Holy ****, 70 posts into this thread, and no one's suggested that the OP take his shocking lack of empathy into the low-human-contact worlds of pathology, radiology, or anesthesia?

What is SDN coming to? 🙂

I thought about it, but pathology is full. Nothing to see here, please move along.

 

[i61164]

I wish we our evaluations were videotaped. Right now, if we get a bad eval, its our word versus the standarized patient - and as far as I can tell, we are graded based on what they write 🙁

That sucks. Ours are videotaped so at least we can have them reviewed if we don't think it was fair. Anyway, as lame as it is to be marked down for not shedding a tear over the dead cat, there may be a lesson to be learned here. Pretend for a minute that the annoying standardized patient is actually a resident who is evaluating you on one of your third year rotations. You will be evaluated by douchbags and they will be able to screw you over. Do you need to be fake? Are you being graded on your acting ability? You bet you are. It will serve you well to be very upbeat, positive, interested in every single field of medicine that you rotate through, totally non-offensive and respectful, hard working, and extremely likable.

People learn "how to act" during third year once they start getting back negative evals, but the problem is that once you have gotten those negative evals the damage has been done and residency program directors are going to see that and think that you have an attitude problem. It sucks, but learn to play the game now so that you don't shoot yourself in the foot later.

 

[cdql]

I am actually surprised by the responses i've gotten. Of course, I had almost forgotten how douchey most medstudents are. Thanks for reminding me you ass-kissing, douchebags👍

With an attitude like that, I'm surprised your standardized patient didn't drop her pants and urinate all over you.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

as a patient, i don't care about empathy.

just answer my questions, and treat my condition.

if you were nice to me, and f*cked me up, I'll still sue you.

 

[THP]

I actually failed one of my standarized patient assessments. Some completely stuck-up radiology attending was evaluating me. (When was the last time she interviewed a patient?). Luckily, the course director reviewed the video tape and said I did just fine. Apparently, she has failed 1 or more students each of the past 3 years. She will no longer be doing the evaluations.

Regarding empathy, I think you will find when you hit 3rd year your natural reaction to the patient will come out for better or worse and these stupid courses will be a distant past.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I'm not going to be empathetic because it might interfere with the God complex that I'm trying to develop.

 

[Ypo.]

Further, I am a fairly empathetic guy, but I don't like that I have to say "HEY LOOK AT ME, I AM BEING EMPATHETIC, LOOK LOOK LOOOK LOOOK!!!! HEY DO YOU SEE ME BEING EMPATHETIC????"

ha ha. That is pretty much what you have to do, though. In my interviews I wait until they give me something I can use empathy on (divorce, death, loss of job) and then I POUNCE on it with "ohhh...I'm so sorry to hear that. How have you been coping?" And then my preceptor checks the little empathy box off and I don't have to do the fcuking interview over again. It's stupid because it's fake and NOT the way it will be when you see real patients, but you gotta jump through the hoops.

 

[toothless rufus]

... you gotta jump through the hoops.

Yeah, but I find the act of hoop jumping silly, especially as those holding he hoops usually also realize their absurdity....everyone is in the know, and everyone pretends not to be. Its weird.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

This is sort of like political correctness... nobody really believes in it, but if called upon you better sound like the most diehard true believer in the room.

 

[PsyberOz]

ha ha. That is pretty much what you have to do, though. In my interviews I wait until they give me something I can use empathy on (divorce, death, loss of job) and then I POUNCE on it with "ohhh...I'm so sorry to hear that. How have you been coping?" And then my preceptor checks the little empathy box off and I don't have to do the fcuking interview over again. It's stupid because it's fake and NOT the way it will be when you see real patients, but you gotta jump through the hoops.

Oh well don't worry you'll probably grow up and become human sometime. In the meantime keep acting. Some of it may stick and become incorporated as you develop a real personality.

[I must admit some of this lack of empathy sounds like US foreign policy personified to me - all for making the right sounding statements but not acting on them - and that's my perspective as a politically conservative Australian. Is it cultural?]

 

[Trail Boss]

Yes, well we do a lot of hand waving, but then again...70% of what the world knows about medicine WE found out, and if it wasn't for US foreign policy, you would be a colony of Imperial Japan so take a break being an ass. There are already plenty on here.

 

[Law2Doc]

Just curious, what happened in med schools this month that got three threads hotly going on empathy at about the same time? Did I miss something?

 

[DoctorFunk]

Just curious, what happened in med schools this month that got three threads hotly going on empathy at about the same time? Did I miss something?

Hehe...it's that time of the semester again--finals. 😉

 

[78222]

Oh well don't worry you'll probably grow up and become human sometime. In the meantime keep acting. Some of it may stick and become incorporated as you develop a real personality.

[I must admit some of this lack of empathy sounds like US foreign policy personified to me - all for making the right sounding statements but not acting on them - and that's my perspective as a politically conservative Australian. Is it cultural?]

well heres how much I care about apolitically conservative Australian's opinion.

 

[PsyberOz]

Yes, well we do a lot of hand waving, but then again...70% of what the world knows about medicine WE found out, and if it wasn't for US foreign policy, you would be a colony of Imperial Japan so take a break being an ass. There are already plenty on here.

Oh, have we forgotten all those Greek, then the Arab Physicians, and all those Brits and Europeans who discovered so much? The US has led the way in the commercialisation of Medicine since WW2, not necessarily the great discoveries like Penicillin [Florey and Fleming]. Lithium for Bipolar Disorder was being used in Oz and Sweden from 1947 - it was "discovered" in the US in the 1960s

Imperial Japan? Yeah.. well I wasn't going to raise world politics other than that cultural reference, but since you did... if they hadn't been stupid enough to attack Pearl Harbour your guys would have left us to it anyway, and we would have managed thank you very much. And we would have not then had ourselves dragged into Vietnam and Iraq with you after the Europeans had the brains to get out of both.

Both those had the same problem - overconfidence, underpreparedness, and no plan for the aftermath. The US thought the invaded guys were going to love them! Iraq? Blind Freddy could have told you no Christian force could ever stay on in a Muslim country as an occupying force - now if Bush had waited till he had UN backing, and say the Yemenis ready to take over the administration, it might have worked.

 

[78222]

Oh, have we forgotten all those Greek, then the Arab Physicians, and all those Brits and Europeans who discovered so much? The US has led the way in the commercialisation of Medicine since WW2, not necessarily the great discoveries like Penicillin [Florey and Fleming]. Lithium for Bipolar Disorder was being used in Oz and Sweden from 1947 - it was "discovered" in the US in the 1960s

Imperial Japan? Yeah.. well I wasn't going to raise world politics other than that cultural reference, but since you did... if they hadn't been stupid enough to attack Pearl Harbour your guys would have left us to it anyway, and we would have managed thank you very much. And we would have not then had ourselves dragged into Vietnam and Iraq with you after the Europeans had the brains to get out of both.
Both those had the same problem - overconfidence, underpreparedness, and no plan for the aftermath. The US thought the invaded guys were going to love them! Iraq? Blind Freddy could have told you no Christian force could ever stay on in a Muslim country as an occupying force - now if Bush had waited till he had UN backing, and say the Yemenis ready to take over the administration, it might have worked.

Now thats just plain nonsense. We goaded Japan into attacking us by declaring defacto war on them. We needed them to attack us to enter the war, but me instigated that attack. Now shut up, I like Aussies and dont want you to sully that.

 

[akpete]

Our SP's are a large part of our grade in the clinical exam class. Most are done 2nd semester of 2nd year.

In 1st year you do a history-taking SP. We did not see the comments made. Only a number posted in the hallway and that was it. So I have no idea what I lost points on.

It never crossed my mind before, but the experience of the BS we call medical school is making me want to do pathology.

 

[PsyberOz]

Now thats just plain nonsense. We goaded Japan into attacking us by declaring defacto war on them. We needed them to attack us to enter the war, but me instigated that attack. Now shut up, I like Aussies and dont want you to sully that.

I don't want to get into yet another war here matey - let's just say but I'm sure you [the US] didn't really want to sacrifice all those US lives and ships by leaving them unprepared for a Japanese attack. The other point is that the rest of the world doesn't see the US the way you are told it does. I have nothing against my American acquaintences here either - just the US government's conviction it knows what is best for the rest of the world.

However, this debate is not appropriate for the purpose of this forum, so if you want the last word post away. I'm here because it is too hot outside, and too smoky because we have bushfires burning over half the state here in Victoria at the moment.

 

[PsyberOz]

well heres how much I care about apolitically conservative Australian's opinion.

OK we'll let the world decide who is infantile, shall we? You have implied that picture represents you!😉

 

[Tristy]

We just got grades back for some stupid physical exam we had and the "patient" rated my empathy as "poor". Give me a break? What am I supposed to do, plant myself in her bulging, obese, bosome and cry because her "cat died"? **** that noise. My empathy was asking if everything was alright. Thats all the empathy you get from me for a dead, nonexistant cat. Further, in my family people don't wear their emotions on their sleeves. That is not a particularly desirable characteristic despite what the douches who design these courses think.

She also claimed that I need to slow down on the history. Well, sorry sister, see, we got this thing called a time limit. Hell, my preceptor's patients would be lucky to get half the time I gave this woman.

This crap is not going to make anyone any more empathetic, its going to make people resent being told to pretend to care.

Surgery here I come.

SurebreC,

Repeat to self "It's gonna be over soon" QID for 4 years.

 

[DoctorFunk]

It never crossed my mind before, but the experience of the BS we call medical school is making me want to do pathology.

That's just crazy talk. The amount of knowledge you apparently need to know about leukemias and lymphomas is enough reason for me to rule out pathology.

 

[LJDHC05]

I wear flair on my white coat. 98 pieces minimum. And at least 1/2 have to be battery powered and either light up or play a song. Constantly. I keep hoping if I pretend I'm at Applebee's I'll get a discount on the hospital food. Yum.

You know, the Nazis had flair...

 

[tulane06]

I always thought empathy was simply understanding where the other person (your patient) was coming from. But yeah, it seems that empathy has been hijacked by the ultra touchy-feely types.

 

[zenman]

5. Psychiatrists shouldn't be the ones teaching this - it should be those of us whose daily work is in delivering really bad news and explaining things to parents.

Regards

OBP

Shrinks do this all the time..

"Yes, sir, those worms you see crawling out your skin really aren't there."

"I'm sorry, Mrs. Jones, those pills I gave your son to make him feel better gave him the energy to kill himself."

 

[CaptainDave]

...

 

[Shredder]

We just got grades back for some stupid physical exam we had and the "patient" rated my empathy as "poor". Give me a break? What am I supposed to do, plant myself in her bulging, obese, bosome and cry because her "cat died"? **** that noise. My empathy was asking if everything was alright. Thats all the empathy you get from me for a dead, nonexistant cat. Further, in my family people don't wear their emotions on their sleeves. That is not a particularly desirable characteristic despite what the douches who design these courses think.

She also claimed that I need to slow down on the history. Well, sorry sister, see, we got this thing called a time limit. Hell, my preceptor's patients would be lucky to get half the time I gave this woman.

This crap is not going to make anyone any more empathetic, its going to make people resent being told to pretend to care.

Surgery here I come.

Screw the patient actors. You'll make a highly efficient doc. Let the empathetic ones wallow in the life/sob stories of patient after patient.

Just do what's necessary to hold up in court. And no settling, trial every time! Haha wow you were serious about the cat dying, that's nuts

O I'm with Cerb on instigating Japan. Just keep the anime and vid games coming.