Why so few applicants to Columbia P+S

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FamousPotatoes

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So why does Columbia get ~50% of the number of applicants the other NYC schools get? Are applicants self-screening because of the high avg GPA and MCAT? It's supposed to be a good school, is there something about it that I don't know?

Also, did anyone else notice that they interview over 1/2 of the OOSers? It makes me think that the interview must be really rough.

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I didn't apply there because it has high averages and doesn't screen. Didn't feel like wasting my money to have my app thrown away. That may be the case a lot.
 
Same here, I applied to Columbia but decided it wasn't worth it so I didn't fill out the secondary. Still applying to NYU, Mt. Sinai, Albert Einstein & Cornell.

Boy would I love to get into NYU.
 
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I've heard that their class is full of those tool pre-meds that everyone hates in your school. I feel like there are many other top schools out there that don't have that class make-up and have really cool students. From what I've heard, it sounds like the Johns Hopkins undergrad for med schools.
 
I've heard that their class is full of those tool pre-meds that everyone hates in your school. I feel like there are many other top schools out there that don't have that class make-up and have really cool students. From what I've heard, it sounds like the Johns Hopkins undergrad for med schools.

Yes...i love NYC (even though P&S is so far north it's barely NYC) and would have loved to go to school in the big apple, but this post sums up 90% of the reason i decided not to go to columbia. i do know some ultra cool people at p&s, but it serves to reinforce that those kids are rare. it all depends on your personality tho.
 
I've heard that their class is full of those tool pre-meds that everyone hates in your school. I feel like there are many other top schools out there that don't have that class make-up and have really cool students. From what I've heard, it sounds like the Johns Hopkins undergrad for med schools.

You probably heard that from someone who got rejected by Columbia after having them as their first choice!!!
 
Simple answer:

The data you're looking at was from when they were pre-AMCAS. People had to go out of their way to apply to them; it wasn't as easy as just checking them off on AMCAS. That's why less people (self-selective) applied to them.
 
You probably heard that from someone who got rejected by Columbia after having them as their first choice!!!
Nope, a resident who graduated from there.
top said:
Yes...i love NYC (even though P&S is so far north it's barely NYC) and would have loved to go to school in the big apple, but this post sums up 90% of the reason i decided not to go to columbia. i do know some ultra cool people at p&s, but it serves to reinforce that those kids are rare. it all depends on your personality tho.
Glad to see that someone else has heard this, too.
 
I won't apply there because they're really picky about AP credits. And I really don't feel like taking another year of physics and english, when I'm in the labs for physics now and have proven that I'm capable of handling a college english class.
 
i'm going to have to add another vote to the "out of my league" response.
 
I didn't want to apply 'cause I didn't want to get a "What the hell were you smoking when you applied here and where can we get some" rejection letter.
 
I did a 2 month summer program at P&S and absolutely fell in love with the place:love: Yes, its up in a part of Harlem up at 168th but that' what subways are for. I got to meet a lot of the med students and you'll get your batch of uber competitive/ almost inhumane med students but there were way more of the super cool/normal type of students as well.

The number one reason why I'm taking a shot and risking losing money if they outright reject me is the fact that if I get in (though its uber competitive) I'll be studying under the mentorship of some of the coolest professors I have ever met. Try reading the interview feedback forum and you'll see alot of students saying that after their interview "columbia is their new number 1". However, I did also read on there that the general vibe of the interview was very "background" oriented, as in "what reasons did you choose your undergrad institution?" In other words "why didn't you go to an ivy league?". However, I think it was more that they interviewed more "gunners" if that makes sense.

Anyways, just wanted to clear up some things with people who may not apply. Oh, and although their averages are high, I know many students who have average scores and are students there.
 
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Simple answer:

The data you're looking at was from when they were pre-AMCAS. People had to go out of their way to apply to them; it wasn't as easy as just checking them off on AMCAS. That's why less people (self-selective) applied to them.



From 2007-2008 (2005 numbers - they year they started to participate w/ AMCAS)

# of Columbia Applicants: 5768
# of Cornell Applicants: 5179
# of Penn Applicants: 5536

:idea:
 
My bad, washington heights...forgot the name for a bit there. Harlem is close by.
 
The people I met there seemed really cool to me: lots of smiles, enthusiasm, and many seem to have a life outside of school. The applicants I met were friendly as well. Not at all gunner-ish, as I have heard some described. I do not have extensive experience with Columbia students and applicants, but I thought I would add my experience as a counter example.
I am new here, by the way. Been lurking since the April MCAT score release countdown...
 
The people I met there seemed really cool to me: lots of smiles, enthusiasm, and many seem to have a life outside of school. The applicants I met were friendly as well. Not at all gunner-ish, as I have heard some described. I do not have extensive experience with Columbia students and applicants, but I thought I would add my experience as a counter example.
I am new here, by the way. Been lurking since the April MCAT score release countdown...

ive heard from many many students that they are exceptionally gunnerish (full of premed solid MCAT GPA students that cant get into harvard, hopkins, etc).
 
ive heard from many many students that they are exceptionally gunnerish (full of premed solid MCAT GPA students that cant get into harvard, hopkins, etc).

The first year is all pass-fail (strictly pass-fail, no honors). The second year is honors-pass-fail, but the grades are only tracked for AOA. P&S does not rank their students. The MS II's and MS III's I spoke with felt that this really does keep the "gunners" at bay (that includes one guy who was leaving the school after MS II because he realized he didn't like medicine; thus, he wasn't really trying to sell the school to me, b/c he didn't feel it was his job.)

On another note, judging by the comments from people on this site, everyone who posts here should be considered a "gunner" by everyone else. Everyone here is looking to get ahead in the admissions process. Most people here are competitive in school. Thus, by the SDN definition, everyone here is a "gunner". Furthermore, if this is how you classify "gunners" then they will be at any medical school you attend. So GET OVER IT and focus on what really matters in a school: facilities, location, curriculum, etc!

Sorry for the rant...
 
The people I met there seemed really cool to me: lots of smiles, enthusiasm, and many seem to have a life outside of school. The applicants I met were friendly as well. Not at all gunner-ish, as I have heard some described. I do not have extensive experience with Columbia students and applicants, but I thought I would add my experience as a counter example.
I am new here, by the way. Been lurking since the April MCAT score release countdown...

Yeah, I would agree. I was just there last week and I did not get that sense at all. In fact, one of the things I really liked about the school was how laid back and normal the students all seemed.
 
yay for positivity! from those i've met from columbia med, they seem nice, a little reserved, but still nice and willing to help, etc
 
I didn't apply there because it has high averages and doesn't screen. Didn't feel like wasting my money to have my app thrown away. That may be the case a lot.

So totally off topic, but your screenname and this person in the florida thread keep confusing me because yours is always angel and hers is american angel.
 
ive heard from many many students that they are exceptionally gunnerish (full of premed solid MCAT GPA students that cant get into harvard, hopkins, etc).

Thanks for your second-hand anecdotal evidence.
 
I had my committee letter sent there and I think they got it but they sent me an email saying I'm incomplete. I dont know what's up.
 
The first year is all pass-fail (strictly pass-fail, no honors). The second year is honors-pass-fail, but the grades are only tracked for AOA. P&S does not rank their students. The MS II's and MS III's I spoke with felt that this really does keep the "gunners" at bay (that includes one guy who was leaving the school after MS II because he realized he didn't like medicine; thus, he wasn't really trying to sell the school to me, b/c he didn't feel it was his job.)

On another note, judging by the comments from people on this site, everyone who posts here should be considered a "gunner" by everyone else. Everyone here is looking to get ahead in the admissions process. Most people here are competitive in school. Thus, by the SDN definition, everyone here is a "gunner". Furthermore, if this is how you classify "gunners" then they will be at any medical school you attend. So GET OVER IT and focus on what really matters in a school: facilities, location, curriculum, etc!

Sorry for the rant...


We all want to succeed and get into medical school. If that's your definition of gunner, fine. I don't mind people who set goals for themselves.

However, some people go beyond that, and that's what pisses us all off. There are the people who work really hard to show off their knowledge and put down others. They go to an ivy league school and make sure you know that they go to an ivy league school. They make sure you know that their school is ranked in the top ten or whatever. They scoff at people who didn't go to a world-famous college.

When you visit any med school, most students you meet will flash smiles, be eager to talk with you, and so on. That's part of how they got into med school--they have decent social skills (and the ones who don't have social skills aren't going to volunteer to talk to you). But we all know that in this profession, you have to fake being nice 24/7.

I'd say if you visit a med school and sense nothing's wrong with the students, that doesn't tell you anything. If you do sense something wrong, that should be a red flag.

That said, I didn't like Columbia at all when I interviewed there. They made a big deal about trying to denounce their reputation as the "College of Surgeons and Surgeons," and how "not everyone is from Harvard, Princeton, or Yale." When someone spends so much effort trying to denounce a reputation, you should wonder why the reputation exists in the first place and continues to do so. Don't be so quick to believe the student tour guides who charmingly say the reputation has no foundation. They're recruited to promote the school, they'll say anything to get you interested.

It didn't help that the two student tour guides were both from Harvard, interested in surgery, and talked the most about their surgery club. And from their class roster, I estimated 50% of the class is from an elite ivy league school. So technically, yeah, not everyone is from Harvard, Princeton, or Yale, but that's just getting silly.

And the people from my undergrad institution who went to Columbia were gunners: interested in going to an elite/top ranked school over anything else.
 
I had my committee letter sent there and I think they got it but they sent me an email saying I'm incomplete. I dont know what's up.

Somewhere in the application they said that it takes them a little longer because they "still do everything by hand"...whatever that means. That said, if it's been an unusually long time, you might want to give them a call.
 
They go to an ivy league school and make sure you know that they go to an ivy league school.

I certainly don't think that going to an ivy or equivalent institution is a prerequisite for gunner status. There are jerks from ivies who are insecure about themselves and use their undergrad to make themselves feel better at the expense of others. There are also just as many jerks from anywhere else who are insecure and still take any opportunity to showcase the superiority of their intelligence. Gunners are gunners regardless of the name on the top of their degree.
 
ive heard from many many students that they are exceptionally gunnerish (full of premed solid MCAT GPA students that cant get into harvard, hopkins, etc).

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. God forbid a school lets in "solid MCAT GPA students" that can't get into comparable or slightly higher ranked schools. "gunners" should refer to an attitude - not qualifications.
 
I haven't posted in awhile, but I'll clear some stuff up. The class at P&S is full of some of the most unique, interesting, and awesome people I've ever met. The "tool pre-med" personality that you speak of is extremely rare if not non-existent. As the president of the first year class, I can say that with certainty. Please come visit and meet the students before you make this judgment. Also, with respect to AP credits I'd like to point out that I used AP credits for all of my English, chemistry, physics, and some of my humanities and social sciences electives. As long as you demonstrate you're competent, it's actually no big deal. Also, since Columbia was late in opening up their application to AMCAS, they've been having a recent surge in applications over the last two years.
 
This is all weird to me because I interviewed at Columbia and specifically made it a point to walk around and meet 1st and 2nd years inbetween their classes (during breaks). I didn't get the sense that they were awkward or very gunnerish. In fact, everyone talked about how much they work together because of the pass/fail system, and how tight the class is (though they did mention cliques).

While they did seem a bit preoccupied with what Ivy you came from, it wasn't that bad. It's a great school, and from what I saw, has great kids.
 
I think a lot of students don't realize that the only school or place that matters is the last one you were at, if it even matters. Once med school starts, everybody starts over. I think a lot of students realize that and don't want to think that you, coming from some small public school, is now equal to them.
 
i'll admit that i didn't apply there because of their avg mcat scores. I even worked there in a lab for a year.

I don't know if i should be upset about that decision.
 
Yes...i love NYC (even though P&S is so far north it's barely NYC) and would have loved to go to school in the big apple, but this post sums up 90% of the reason i decided not to go to columbia. i do know some ultra cool people at p&s, but it serves to reinforce that those kids are rare. it all depends on your personality tho.

I know its not the point of the post/thread but P & S is not that far up north. I dont know if you are a native NY'er but Columbia is on the Upper West Side and is about 15/20 minutes away by train from the southern end of Manhattan so its pretty accessible plus there is a nite life in the are due to Columbia's presence.
 
I've heard that their class is full of those tool pre-meds that everyone hates in your school. I feel like there are many other top schools out there that don't have that class make-up and have really cool students. From what I've heard, it sounds like the Johns Hopkins undergrad for med schools.

Tool pre-meds eh. You mean the kind that bad mouth each other. Generalize...insult WHOLE undergrad institutions.

ahem.
 
Tool pre-meds eh. You mean the kind that bad mouth each other. Generalize...insult WHOLE undergrad institutions.

ahem.
Schools have a certain character about them. It's ABSOLUTELY a generalization, but you can't talk about how the class is 32.5% tool, 67.5% cool. No one knows that. You have to make generalizations and comment on the overall character of the school. There will always be people who don't fit the mold--that's why they're called generalizations. I'm throwing out what I know. That's the purpose of these forums--to organize knowledge and answer questions. If you have nothing to contribute, then don't say anything.
 
Schools have a certain character about them. It's ABSOLUTELY a generalization, but you can't talk about how the class is 32.5% tool, 67.5% cool. No one knows that. You have to make generalizations and comment on the overall character of the school. There will always be people who don't fit the mold--that's why they're called generalizations. I'm throwing out what I know. That's the purpose of these forums--to organize knowledge and answer questions. If you have nothing to contribute, then don't say anything.

I have nothing to contribute.
 
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. God forbid a school lets in "solid MCAT GPA students" that can't get into comparable or slightly higher ranked schools. "gunners" should refer to an attitude - not qualifications.

im a gunner with lower mcat and gpa :) but im not awkward or a tool... i always just thought a gunner is someone who is way on top of stuff like "i have all the admissions statistics memorized" and " i toured the school before i had an interview" etc... oh and you dont have to throw it in people's faces or brag to be a gunner either.. its a state of mind not being a jerk or socially awkward etc.. it just means youre really driven...
 
Peter Parker goes to Columbia and I just do not want to get caught up in a cobwebs war when the bad guys start showing up and duking it out in the library. That, sir, is the reason why I did not apply.
 
Wow....you gotta love the generalizations and statements that just aren't true about Columbia. I'm finishing up here and I've loved my entire time here. I did not go to an ivy league school for undergrad - but many of them did....does that make them worse human beings? If you come into a situation where you have a bias against a particular school or person, then you'll be jaded when you view the program. It seems that you don't like ivy league schools....that's fine, don't go to one then. But just as you feel they are being closed-minded towards you b/c you aren't an ivyleaguer, you are being closed-minded to them.

Everyone is going to get impressions of a program when you visit it...use that impression how you want...and tell people how you felt, but I hope most people will use their own sense and their own resources (such as contacting me or other current students) to make any final decisions.

I chose Columbia and it was one of the best decisions of my life. The people here are amazing, non-gunnerish, enjoy numerous pursuits outside of medicine, and still can work hard / play hard. It was actually the students and faculty that I met on my interview that caused me to fall in love with it. At numerous other institutions, I saw that I wasn't a fit...here, it was awesome.

When I got the acceptance packet, I was thrilled....
 
Wow....you gotta love the generalizations and statements that just aren't true about Columbia. I'm finishing up here and I've loved my entire time here. I did not go to an ivy league school for undergrad - but many of them did....does that make them worse human beings? If you come into a situation where you have a bias against a particular school or person, then you'll be jaded when you view the program. It seems that you don't like ivy league schools....that's fine, don't go to one then. But just as you feel they are being closed-minded towards you b/c you aren't an ivyleaguer, you are being closed-minded to them.

Everyone is going to get impressions of a program when you visit it...use that impression how you want...and tell people how you felt, but I hope most people will use their own sense and their own resources (such as contacting me or other current students) to make any final decisions.

I chose Columbia and it was one of the best decisions of my life. The people here are amazing, non-gunnerish, enjoy numerous pursuits outside of medicine, and still can work hard / play hard. It was actually the students and faculty that I met on my interview that caused me to fall in love with it. At numerous other institutions, I saw that I wasn't a fit...here, it was awesome.

When I got the acceptance packet, I was thrilled....


I applied to P&S solely because it is so cool it doesn't even call itself a medical school, or college of medicine or anything. I love how they are like 'you know what, we are so awesome we are going to call ourselves college of physicians and surgeons, let ANYONE else try and copy us'. Yes that is my reason.
 
I applied to P&S solely because it is so cool it doesn't even call itself a medical school, or college of medicine or anything. I love how they are like 'you know what, we are so awesome we are going to call ourselves college of physicians and surgeons, let ANYONE else try and copy us'. Yes that is my reason.

lol i wanted to apply there because, well haha it is a very different setting than rochester and school is decent, graduate and md
 
I know its not the point of the post/thread but P & S is not that far up north. I dont know if you are a native NY'er but Columbia is on the Upper West Side and is about 15/20 minutes away by train from the southern end of Manhattan so its pretty accessible plus there is a nite life in the are due to Columbia's presence.

15-20 minutes on the train will put you nowhere near the southern tip of Manhattan.
 
eh? catch the express and you'll be be at the southern tip of manhattan in no time. 30 minutes tops.
 
Go look at their class roster, 60 percent from Harvard and Yale, 20 from Hopkins, 10 from other ivies, and the rest from Berkeley and UCLA. That's not diversity people!
 
Go look at their class roster, 60 percent from Harvard and Yale, 20 from Hopkins, 10 from other ivies, and the rest from Berkeley and UCLA. That's not diversity people!

Trying to assemble the brightest medical school class = :thumbdown:
 
Yes...i love NYC (even though P&S is so far north it's barely NYC) and would have loved to go to school in the big apple, but this post sums up 90% of the reason i decided not to go to columbia. i do know some ultra cool people at p&s, but it serves to reinforce that those kids are rare. it all depends on your personality tho.
its just 5min subway from central park
 
[QUOTE From what I've heard, it sounds like the Johns Hopkins undergrad for med schools.[/QUOTE]

C'mon guys, Hopkins undergrad isn't *that* bad :rolleyes:

Sure, people are pretty intense, but it's more personal motivation than trying to bring everybody else down.

But damn that kid who got an 107 on the last anatomy midterm and curved the class down.... :laugh:
 
Trying to assemble the brightest medical school class = :thumbdown:

Yeah the rest of us at all the other non-ivies are just a bunch of *******es or not as bright. If you ask me, the admissions committee is just lazy and they don't want to look deep into an application, only superficially.
 
Yeah the rest of us at all the other non-ivies are just a bunch of *******es or not as bright. If you ask me, the admissions committee is just lazy and they don't want to look deep into an application, only superficially.


No one ever said that. Maybe you should remove your head from the dirt and the chip from your shoulder...Don't be such a hater.


Strong programs build their programs with strong applicants. Go through any of the top programs and look where their students are from - and you'll notice the same trend. I know that in the past Columbia interviewed tons more applicants than any other program. They would interview basically 10 people for 1 spot. Not sure if this has changed recently. Some people look at that as a bad thing and "why waste my time?"....It just surprises me that it's the same people who say that also are the ones saying that they just look at your application superficially. If that were the case, why bother interviewing so many applicants? It's b/c they want quality people that they would want to work with. There are a ton of a$$holes in medicine, who wants to work with them?


If you're a strong student from a weaker undergrad, you'll still be fine. We have a student from community college here. It's also about the rest of your application. Personally, the reason I got in here was my interview - I completely clicked with the person. The main reason P&S is more singled out on where they went for undergrad is that they give you a book so that it's out there on paper for anyone who interviews to see.

All that being said, I didn't feel that I was ever surrounded by an "elitist" attitude here. In working with my peers, undergrad rarely came up except as initial meetings in order to know more about where the person was from. After that, we are all equals.

But as the process goes on, welcome to life. On residency interviews I constantly hear "Where you train, is who you are in xxxxxx" Do I agree? To an extent, I think the program will shape who you are and how you practice (academic vs. private practice)...but I don't think that if you don't go to a top program you won't come out a good doctor.
 
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