Cat's Meow said:
Thanks
same to you!
Why Stanford Med rocks
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I think any U.S. medical school, regardless of it being allopathic or osteopathic, provides an excellent medical education. For those accepted to/currently attending a top medical school such as Stanford, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, I give you guys props. For me, I am very content in attending Western University (osteopathic medical school) in Pomona, CA. The first year at any U.S. medical school is challenging, extremely tough, and very draining (both mentally and physically).
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yeah, man, let's all go there!IndyZX said:
He also forgot to mention the ridiculous number of class hours per week at Stanford. There is a reason the OP misses 90% of his classes.
If you want to talk about pros and cons of Stanford, let's talk about them, and how it measures up to other schools. But I'm afraid a bunch of pre-meds in this forum are now convinced Stanford med is a cakewalk and all those things listed are unique to the school, which they are not.
BTW I'm not "hating on" Stanford. Stanford is an excellent medical school. I just like to see some balanced reporting. And BTW there are a lot of med schools where most of the students are extremely happy.
There are realistic, unique pros at Stanford, including the weather and nice suburban setting, pass/fail every year, and small class size among the top schools. But there are also realistic cons, such as the horrible hospital, low faculty, and high number of class hours. I didn't see any of these negatives listed in the OP, and these ARE real negatives when compared to places like Northwestern (the unbelievable hospital and the number of hours of class per week compared to Stanford), and faculty like at Harvard or UCSF (a faculty/student ratio of 1.8/1 when you only have 86 students per class is nothing to brag about IMO, and is the lowest of the top 15 schools). A large medical school, of which Stanford certainly is not, DOES have real advantages, especially for diversity of research and clinical opportunities. A small school also has its advantages. Also the fact you have to drive 45 minutes (on a good day) to get to a city, in my book, is a huge negative and is the reason I never applied there, especially when you are single and in your 20's.
If you want to talk about pros and cons of Stanford, let's talk about them, and how it measures up to other schools. But I'm afraid a bunch of pre-meds in this forum are now convinced Stanford med is a cakewalk and all those things listed are unique to the school, which they are not.
BTW I'm not "hating on" Stanford. Stanford is an excellent medical school. I just like to see some balanced reporting. And BTW there are a lot of med schools where most of the students are extremely happy.
There are realistic, unique pros at Stanford, including the weather and nice suburban setting, pass/fail every year, and small class size among the top schools. But there are also realistic cons, such as the horrible hospital, low faculty, and high number of class hours. I didn't see any of these negatives listed in the OP, and these ARE real negatives when compared to places like Northwestern (the unbelievable hospital and the number of hours of class per week compared to Stanford), and faculty like at Harvard or UCSF (a faculty/student ratio of 1.8/1 when you only have 86 students per class is nothing to brag about IMO, and is the lowest of the top 15 schools). A large medical school, of which Stanford certainly is not, DOES have real advantages, especially for diversity of research and clinical opportunities. A small school also has its advantages. Also the fact you have to drive 45 minutes (on a good day) to get to a city, in my book, is a huge negative and is the reason I never applied there, especially when you are single and in your 20's.
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you're obviously not sold on the things that most medical students would be sold on, but it's good that you mention why you feel this way. but, the larger issue is that you actually seem more misinformed that the other people posting here... the stanford hospital is not horrible, but is in fact excellent for most things. it's in the top 15 or top 10 for most of the criteria us news uses to rank hospitals:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/hosptl/directory/hosp_6932330.htm
the city (sf) is anywhere between 20-30 minutes away on a good day, and there are smaller cities like san jose that are only 15 minutes away.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/hosptl/directory/hosp_6932330.htm
the city (sf) is anywhere between 20-30 minutes away on a good day, and there are smaller cities like san jose that are only 15 minutes away.
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FutureMD! said:LOL of course Stanford is one of the best if not the best...who REALLY would argue with that? Did you really need to post this because frankly have you looked at the incoming freshman profile? To get even a interview at this school would require a stroke of genius, but you have to BE a genius to be in the entering class. Just my thoughts
P.s Not that I won't apply next year...from what I hear its all a crap shoot anyways.
i have a question. if he gets free lifetime email, why is he using his yahoo email to contact him?? i guess you could say it is because of spam and such, but with such a well to do email system, surely they would have a filter on the incoming system. additionally he gives out specific codes to get free stuff on campus, hinting at that site not nessesarily being intentionally a totally public site. maybe then it may also be that yahoo performs better, but then again you would think with such a great stanford email, u know??... maybe he doesnt want ppl to kno he goes to stanford... but then again his site...
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Cat's Meow said:Are UCSF students generally unhappy?
Like I said before, find a school on the east coast, preferably New York. You'll find tons of Jews there.
-Ice
constructor said:
What do you mean I'm not sold on the things that other med students would be sold on? Low class hours, an impressive hospital, and an urban location are not big selling points? Stanford has none of these. What things am I sold on that most people aren't? When applying to medical schools last year, my criteria were 1) Pass/Fail, 2) Urban Location so I don't spend my mid-twenties in suburbia, 3) Good reputation, 4) Low class hours so I can actually have a life outside of school, and 5) An impressive hospital to spend years 3 and 4 at. I sounded like most premeds that I knew.
And forget about rankings... have you BEEN to Stanford's hospital compared to the other hospitals in the top 20? Heck I bet you 8 out of 10 premeds on this forum would have a hard time distinguising whether it is a hospital or a library.
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I just happened upon this thread and noticed a discussion about UCSF so I thought I'd chime in...
Firstly, everyone in our first year class at UCSF is happy and they all love it here...in class and out of class. I could go on about this. The curriculum is fantastic and, of course, so is the city. Those two are the main reasons people pick UCSF. The clinical skills teaching is very impressive; that's something I didn't realize until I was able to conduct thorough patient interviews and do physical exams (and know exactly why I'm doing each thing) just a month into medical school with my preceptor.
The student/faculty ratio is awesome. Although our class size is 142, a good portion of our learning is done is small groups. For example, my PBL group has 6 students with 2 faculty members while my physical exams group has 8 students with 2 faculty members and an MS4. The attention we get is fantastic. Overall, UCSF's strength comes from the faculty and its students; hopefully you, as an applicant, will get a sense of that when you come to interview.
Although the top10 schools, like UCSF, are ranked primarily according to research funding, I HIGHLY encourage you not to give that stat too much weight. Choose your school based on TEACHING. That's something you won't fine on the US News & World Report. That's something you can only find out doing research on each school's curriculum and asking current medical students about their experiences.
Good luck to all of you applying!
Firstly, everyone in our first year class at UCSF is happy and they all love it here...in class and out of class. I could go on about this. The curriculum is fantastic and, of course, so is the city. Those two are the main reasons people pick UCSF. The clinical skills teaching is very impressive; that's something I didn't realize until I was able to conduct thorough patient interviews and do physical exams (and know exactly why I'm doing each thing) just a month into medical school with my preceptor.
The student/faculty ratio is awesome. Although our class size is 142, a good portion of our learning is done is small groups. For example, my PBL group has 6 students with 2 faculty members while my physical exams group has 8 students with 2 faculty members and an MS4. The attention we get is fantastic. Overall, UCSF's strength comes from the faculty and its students; hopefully you, as an applicant, will get a sense of that when you come to interview.
Although the top10 schools, like UCSF, are ranked primarily according to research funding, I HIGHLY encourage you not to give that stat too much weight. Choose your school based on TEACHING. That's something you won't fine on the US News & World Report. That's something you can only find out doing research on each school's curriculum and asking current medical students about their experiences.
Good luck to all of you applying!
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Bear1220 said:
This is excellent advice.
ctwickman,
you make it sound like the only good thing about stanford is the walmart down the street. if you actually read the OP link, you'll see stanford's positives blow away the collective positives at any other school. yes, some schools are better in one or two respects, such as having more nightlife nearby or a higher ranking on US news. but when you take a look at the entire 4 year experience, stanford stand clearly above the rest. as a graduate of stanford med and a current resident elsewhere, i know ppl who just graduated from harvard, ucsf, etc. they are bitter and burned out. yeah, their first 2 years of med school were great. but then they got they got a beat down during their 3rd and 4th year. At stanford all 4 years are sublime.
your misleading comments, corrected:
stanford has "low faculty". What, were we taught by nurses? stanford has tons of clinical educator MDs who are not part of the academic "faculty" but who are still outstanding teachers. stanford's number of faculty is small because it's a newer, smaller med school and hospital. despite this, we're near the top of the rankings b/c deans and residency directors across the country know that stanford med is quality. if you checkout and have access to http://www.isihighlycited.com , you'll see stanford has 6 clinical medicine faculty who are highly cited. ucsf also has six, but they are 10 times our size. duke and columbia only have 3 highly cited clinical medicine researchers each. hopkins has 7. stanford may be small, but the quality is superb.
stanford has a "crappy/horrible hospital". Have you heard of US News? stanford's hospital has made the honor roll (top 15 in the nation) consistently for the past several years. For such a small hospital, this is a remarkable achievement and testament to how good the hospital is. just because a hospital doesn't look like a 5 star, marble lined hotel doesn't mean the care and research is not upto par with the best.
stanford is "not state of the art." Did you even interview at stanford? did you see the anatomy labs, the clark center, the cancer center, or the histo labs? have you seen any of the teched-out lecture halls or research labs? they just installed a SEVEN (normal is 1.5) tesla MRI on the medical campus. stanford wouldn't be one of the hearts of the biomedical device industry if it wasn't the cream technologically. Some buildings are old, but they have well upgraded interiors. The oldest buildings will be replaced in the next 10 yrs anyways.
stanford has a "high number of hours" of class. On the spectrum of traditional to PBL curriculum, we were definitely more traditional. but the longest class day is 8 hours and the average day is 6 hours. it's not bad at all. if you're at PBL school, you're gonna be spending your time figuring out what to study while we're learning more efficiently in class. PBL schools don't give you more free time. if anything, they take it away b/c you have to spend more time doing things on your own without guidance. i'm glad i was taught by the basic science experts at stanford rather than by PBL "facilitators" at other schools.
"the OP misses 90% of his classes". The OP was not present at many classes, but he watched most of the missed classes via stanford's digitally videotaped collection, which is great for people with exciting lives and whose class schedules are secondary to their primary interests.
"i bet you 8 out of 10 premeds on this forum would have a hard time distinguising whether it is a hospital or a library." The stanford medical campus, if given a proper tour, will strike you as heaven's version of a med school and hospital, in terms of combining the perfect blend of places to work, relax, and learn. new buildings everywhere. beautiful gardens and landscaped lawns in the setting of nice weather year round. highly motivated and fun people, from students to full professors to deans and ancillary staff. resources screaming at you to use them. money thrown in your face.
find any senior med student at the other top schools (harvard, jh, ucsf, etc) and ask him/her to compare their school to the plethora of positives listed at the OP's link. they will be wishing they went to stanford.
does any other med school have an independent website dedicated to praising it?
you make it sound like the only good thing about stanford is the walmart down the street. if you actually read the OP link, you'll see stanford's positives blow away the collective positives at any other school. yes, some schools are better in one or two respects, such as having more nightlife nearby or a higher ranking on US news. but when you take a look at the entire 4 year experience, stanford stand clearly above the rest. as a graduate of stanford med and a current resident elsewhere, i know ppl who just graduated from harvard, ucsf, etc. they are bitter and burned out. yeah, their first 2 years of med school were great. but then they got they got a beat down during their 3rd and 4th year. At stanford all 4 years are sublime.
your misleading comments, corrected:
stanford has "low faculty". What, were we taught by nurses? stanford has tons of clinical educator MDs who are not part of the academic "faculty" but who are still outstanding teachers. stanford's number of faculty is small because it's a newer, smaller med school and hospital. despite this, we're near the top of the rankings b/c deans and residency directors across the country know that stanford med is quality. if you checkout and have access to http://www.isihighlycited.com , you'll see stanford has 6 clinical medicine faculty who are highly cited. ucsf also has six, but they are 10 times our size. duke and columbia only have 3 highly cited clinical medicine researchers each. hopkins has 7. stanford may be small, but the quality is superb.
stanford has a "crappy/horrible hospital". Have you heard of US News? stanford's hospital has made the honor roll (top 15 in the nation) consistently for the past several years. For such a small hospital, this is a remarkable achievement and testament to how good the hospital is. just because a hospital doesn't look like a 5 star, marble lined hotel doesn't mean the care and research is not upto par with the best.
stanford is "not state of the art." Did you even interview at stanford? did you see the anatomy labs, the clark center, the cancer center, or the histo labs? have you seen any of the teched-out lecture halls or research labs? they just installed a SEVEN (normal is 1.5) tesla MRI on the medical campus. stanford wouldn't be one of the hearts of the biomedical device industry if it wasn't the cream technologically. Some buildings are old, but they have well upgraded interiors. The oldest buildings will be replaced in the next 10 yrs anyways.
stanford has a "high number of hours" of class. On the spectrum of traditional to PBL curriculum, we were definitely more traditional. but the longest class day is 8 hours and the average day is 6 hours. it's not bad at all. if you're at PBL school, you're gonna be spending your time figuring out what to study while we're learning more efficiently in class. PBL schools don't give you more free time. if anything, they take it away b/c you have to spend more time doing things on your own without guidance. i'm glad i was taught by the basic science experts at stanford rather than by PBL "facilitators" at other schools.
"the OP misses 90% of his classes". The OP was not present at many classes, but he watched most of the missed classes via stanford's digitally videotaped collection, which is great for people with exciting lives and whose class schedules are secondary to their primary interests.
"i bet you 8 out of 10 premeds on this forum would have a hard time distinguising whether it is a hospital or a library." The stanford medical campus, if given a proper tour, will strike you as heaven's version of a med school and hospital, in terms of combining the perfect blend of places to work, relax, and learn. new buildings everywhere. beautiful gardens and landscaped lawns in the setting of nice weather year round. highly motivated and fun people, from students to full professors to deans and ancillary staff. resources screaming at you to use them. money thrown in your face.
find any senior med student at the other top schools (harvard, jh, ucsf, etc) and ask him/her to compare their school to the plethora of positives listed at the OP's link. they will be wishing they went to stanford.
does any other med school have an independent website dedicated to praising it?
^
Says the original poster. Gosh I hope they are paying you. Nice try changing user names and posting this for the first time. Just because you went ahead and cut and pasted some text into an HTML file and put it online doesn't mean that there is some "independent web site" dedicated to praising Stanford. We may be busy but we're not stupid. Any of us could do the same with our school and it would take a few minutes max. And then if we did that, posted in a thread, called it an "independent" review, and then changed our user names again to make it sound like more people support you then we might just be as crazy as you.
Every school has a rose-colored booster that can convince you that their school is "the best." The above is one of those examples. If this guy would have gone to Florida State Medical School there would be some "indepedent web site" dedicated to how great FSU is and a thread in here "Why FSU rocks." Stanford has a lot of strengths, but no one is going to believe you if you write like the above or in that text file you put online. All 4 years are "sublime?" "Money thrown in your face?" Seniors at UCSF wish they would have went to Stanford???
Come on man. Are you the unofficial Stanford Convention and Visitors Bureau representative? You are just wasting your own time, unless they are paying you to do this. And I find it so funny that you put down PBL. Most people love PBL and you obviously have nothing to compare it to because you do not go to a PBL school, so effectively you just make yourself look ignorant. You are obviously very biased and feel the need to boost your particular school at the expense of other ones which most on this forum would argue are much better.
Says the original poster. Gosh I hope they are paying you. Nice try changing user names and posting this for the first time. Just because you went ahead and cut and pasted some text into an HTML file and put it online doesn't mean that there is some "independent web site" dedicated to praising Stanford. We may be busy but we're not stupid. Any of us could do the same with our school and it would take a few minutes max. And then if we did that, posted in a thread, called it an "independent" review, and then changed our user names again to make it sound like more people support you then we might just be as crazy as you.
Every school has a rose-colored booster that can convince you that their school is "the best." The above is one of those examples. If this guy would have gone to Florida State Medical School there would be some "indepedent web site" dedicated to how great FSU is and a thread in here "Why FSU rocks." Stanford has a lot of strengths, but no one is going to believe you if you write like the above or in that text file you put online. All 4 years are "sublime?" "Money thrown in your face?" Seniors at UCSF wish they would have went to Stanford???
Come on man. Are you the unofficial Stanford Convention and Visitors Bureau representative? You are just wasting your own time, unless they are paying you to do this. And I find it so funny that you put down PBL. Most people love PBL and you obviously have nothing to compare it to because you do not go to a PBL school, so effectively you just make yourself look ignorant. You are obviously very biased and feel the need to boost your particular school at the expense of other ones which most on this forum would argue are much better.i don't know how to prove it, but i was not the OP.
everyone, please ignore ctwickman. he goes to northwestern and is clearly insecure about it. fortunately at stanford we don't admit people like ctwickman who are hateful and weak. stanford med is made up of only happy, brilliant, and loving students.
if anyone has any questions about stanford i would be more than glad to PM.
everyone, please ignore ctwickman. he goes to northwestern and is clearly insecure about it. fortunately at stanford we don't admit people like ctwickman who are hateful and weak. stanford med is made up of only happy, brilliant, and loving students.
if anyone has any questions about stanford i would be more than glad to PM.
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ctwickman you're an idiot... i'm not the op and i completely agree with him.
By the way, Stanford's hospital is one of the best. I lived in San Jose, and we know the reputation of the hospital really well. Comparing Stanford and UCSF is very hard. Both institution are good! Northwestern is a great school too! Why bash Stanford? Anyway, if people from the USA have a choice, I say most will pick UCSF and Stanford over Northwestern.
ctwickman said:
8ds said:
I'm "hateful and weak?" How old are you? I'm "insecure" about Northwestern? Stanford is only made up of happy, brilliant, loving students? Really? Than how do they admit people like you who think Harvard, UCSF, and now Northwestern students are insecure about where they go and wish they went to Stanford? Doesn't sound like a happy, loving person to me. I don't know many happy, loving, secure people out there who call other people "hateful and weak" merely for disagreeing that Stanford "blows away the competition." Sorry bud, most SDN readers in here should learn to ignore guys like this, because to tell you the truth folks, there is no competition--you should go where you WANT and not what US News tells you or what some unofficial representative of the Stanford Visitors Bureau tells you.
Stanford does admit people like "ctwickman" BTW. My stats are way above the average there and I got into schools that are ranked much higher than Stanford. But I didn't apply to California schools because it is way too far from my family. Get it?
Unlike you I am not on here to try and convince people that my school is the best--people can make up there own minds. I'm not the one who said idiotic things like "seniors at UCSF and Harvard now wish they went to Stanford." The nice thing about internet forums is you can't get away with BS'ing people into thinking your opinion is fact because someone will usually disagree with you. I am one of those people and if you can't deal with it, tough.
And I know you are the OP who is just changing your username. Look at your post history and the post history of the OP. Look at the writing styles and some of the goofy things they say, like using phrases like "hateful and weak" for example. Look how big of a fan of the OP you are. Like this: "if you actually read the OP link, you'll see stanford's positives blow away the collective positives at any other school. yes, some schools are better in one or two respects, such as having more nightlife nearby or a higher ranking on US news. but when you take a look at the entire 4 year experience, stanford stand clearly above the rest."
Who else besides the OP would say this, such as Stanford "blowing away" the competition, AND provide us a hyperlink? And who else is willing to rip on Harvard and UCSF and say that Stanford stands "clear above" them? You make it sound like every school that is NOT Stanford is not a great, wonderful, happy, challenging experience and that people that don't go there, or people who disagree that it "blows away" the competition, or even disagree with the idea that there even IS any competition in the first place, are just "insecure" about where they go.
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wow, maybe i don't want to go to any of these schools now. you guys are a little hard core!! i thought people went to schools where they thought they'd get a good education and be happy. one school is not really better than another. it's all personal preference. now stop acting so crazy cause i'm applying to all these schools and don't want to get turned off because i think everyone is a crazy gunner.
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There is some misinformation on this thread. First off, Stanford adapted a new curriculum last year. With the new curriculum, starting in spring of the first-year, you are in class for three hours per morning on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday, plus two afternoons in small group sessions on either Tue/Thu or Mon/Fri. Wednesday is free. All the classes are videotaped, and watching videos at 150%-250% can reduce class time further! This may sound pointless, but you'd be surprised at how slowly some lecturers are actually going, and how listening to a 50 minute lecture in 25 minutes can actually be better than listening to it over 50 minutes!
Second off, there is no med school in which all the students are wonderful and things are lovey-dovey. As in every other school or work environment, you will (assuming you have a non-awful personality) meet a lot of people who are okay, meet a smaller number of people you really like and can be good friends with, and meet a small number of people who will, for some reason or another, piss you off. Any med school that claims the whole class loves each other or that it doesn't have some members who never show up at parties and social events because they are studying/banging their girlfriend/whatever is lying.
Third off, Stanford is unique in having an ungraded clinical curriculum. This does make the third year more chill than at much any med school. Regardless, med school (esp. the second and third years) is a crapload of work whereever you go and whatever the grading system-- it is just a huge corpus of stuff to learn in order to become a competent clinical practitioner.
Second off, there is no med school in which all the students are wonderful and things are lovey-dovey. As in every other school or work environment, you will (assuming you have a non-awful personality) meet a lot of people who are okay, meet a smaller number of people you really like and can be good friends with, and meet a small number of people who will, for some reason or another, piss you off. Any med school that claims the whole class loves each other or that it doesn't have some members who never show up at parties and social events because they are studying/banging their girlfriend/whatever is lying.
Third off, Stanford is unique in having an ungraded clinical curriculum. This does make the third year more chill than at much any med school. Regardless, med school (esp. the second and third years) is a crapload of work whereever you go and whatever the grading system-- it is just a huge corpus of stuff to learn in order to become a competent clinical practitioner.
^
Now at least you are reasonable. But allow me to say something here. It is wonderful, don't get me wrong, that you have video lectures online. But many other schools do too. In fact, most schools I interviewed at last year had video lectures online. When a video is digital and you watch it in WMP like just about every computer has, you can speed it up. This is not unique to Stanford. Just an aside that people should know. Though it is a good thing and I'm happy Stanford has it. My point was not to knock this system, just that it is not unique to Stanford. As for lecture hours, there are other schools that have a lot less class time than that. Though I applaud them on their new curriculum.
I like the fact you are realistic in your "lovey dovey" expose. Every school has some unhappy students. Period. I'm sure many students at Stanford are happy, and some unhappy.
As for the clinical grades, would you consider Honors/Pass/Fail a "graded" system because MANY schools are this way in years 3 and 4, and in my mind I would consider that "ungraded."
One thing I learned though is that on all the interviews I went on, the office does a GREAT job in making you think that many of the things at your school are unique, when in fact a week later you'll interview at some other school and find out they have the exact same system. The OP just sounded like one of these people which is why I even got involved here in the first place. I have no positive or negative opinion of Stanford either way--I'm totally and completely neutral and quite honestly could care less. I have a negative opinion regarding the hospital I saw, and the suburban environment, so it just "wasn't for me" but that's about it. I'm sure it would appeal to many people, I'm just not one of them and I would never be willing to move again so far from my family, especially now that I am older (non traditional), and I take offense at people who act like "my school is better than yours" and the OP struck me as one of those people.
Now at least you are reasonable. But allow me to say something here. It is wonderful, don't get me wrong, that you have video lectures online. But many other schools do too. In fact, most schools I interviewed at last year had video lectures online. When a video is digital and you watch it in WMP like just about every computer has, you can speed it up. This is not unique to Stanford. Just an aside that people should know. Though it is a good thing and I'm happy Stanford has it. My point was not to knock this system, just that it is not unique to Stanford. As for lecture hours, there are other schools that have a lot less class time than that. Though I applaud them on their new curriculum.
I like the fact you are realistic in your "lovey dovey" expose. Every school has some unhappy students. Period. I'm sure many students at Stanford are happy, and some unhappy.
As for the clinical grades, would you consider Honors/Pass/Fail a "graded" system because MANY schools are this way in years 3 and 4, and in my mind I would consider that "ungraded."
One thing I learned though is that on all the interviews I went on, the office does a GREAT job in making you think that many of the things at your school are unique, when in fact a week later you'll interview at some other school and find out they have the exact same system. The OP just sounded like one of these people which is why I even got involved here in the first place. I have no positive or negative opinion of Stanford either way--I'm totally and completely neutral and quite honestly could care less. I have a negative opinion regarding the hospital I saw, and the suburban environment, so it just "wasn't for me" but that's about it. I'm sure it would appeal to many people, I'm just not one of them and I would never be willing to move again so far from my family, especially now that I am older (non traditional), and I take offense at people who act like "my school is better than yours" and the OP struck me as one of those people.
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ctwickman said:
This is my first post on this, so I'm not sure what "now you're being reasonable" means. To address your points,
Of course, Honors/Pass/Fail is graded! You think people don't fight teeth and nail to get the honors rather then the pass??? I am pretty sure Stanford is the ONLY US med school that is completely ungraded all four years. However, we have been getting flack from residency directors for this and the administration holds a meeting every couple of years to try and convince the students to move to some form of bucketing/grading for the third year. So, this ungraded all four years situation may not be the case for incoming students.
Regardless, once you're in the top-10 schools, it really is not all that important where you go-- Stanford, Duke, UCSF, whatever. For the people (and there aren't many) who have to choose one, the best criteria is generally financial aid package, how much you like the area, whether you have family/friends in the area, and the like. Every med school likes to promote its curriculum, but I'm not sure how much of an effect it actually has (with the exception of whether or not the first two years are pass/fail-- which I think is important for making the pre-clinical experience much less stressful).
^
I didn't say "at least now you are being reasonable." I said at least YOU are reasonable, as in you are more reasonable than the OP. It was a compliment.
You're second paragraph is a good one. I think there is a certain segment of a class who are gunners who DO fight tooth and nail for Honors in their clinical years. I am not one of those people and I know many of my friends are the same way. P=MD here and an MD from Northwestern in the Chicago area is worth its wait in gold for just about any residency in the area, which for many of us is all that matters. I'm not going to move again far from my family like I did in undergrad.
I like your last paragraph. It is probably the most reasonable thing said in this thread and I wish the OP had the same attitude and had the maturity of thinking to agree with you. I would extend that paragraph to read "top 100 schools" though. My sister went to a "bottom 10" school and she was extremely happy throughout med school, got a residency nearby her family right where she wanted (primarily because the school was near her family to begin with... remember people, medicine is a business and is about connections), now makes $190/hour as an ER doc and is 1st in line to take over the department when the Chair retires. The Chair went to a "top 5" school and he says it gets brought up maybe once a year in passing and is totally meaningless. His degree is packed up in his basement. We all have the same duty and job, he says. Which is why I get a little flamed up when I see some guy on this forum acting like this is some big competition and that his school "blows the competition away."
I'm out. I've said enough...
I didn't say "at least now you are being reasonable." I said at least YOU are reasonable, as in you are more reasonable than the OP. It was a compliment.
You're second paragraph is a good one. I think there is a certain segment of a class who are gunners who DO fight tooth and nail for Honors in their clinical years. I am not one of those people and I know many of my friends are the same way. P=MD here and an MD from Northwestern in the Chicago area is worth its wait in gold for just about any residency in the area, which for many of us is all that matters. I'm not going to move again far from my family like I did in undergrad.
I like your last paragraph. It is probably the most reasonable thing said in this thread and I wish the OP had the same attitude and had the maturity of thinking to agree with you. I would extend that paragraph to read "top 100 schools" though. My sister went to a "bottom 10" school and she was extremely happy throughout med school, got a residency nearby her family right where she wanted (primarily because the school was near her family to begin with... remember people, medicine is a business and is about connections), now makes $190/hour as an ER doc and is 1st in line to take over the department when the Chair retires. The Chair went to a "top 5" school and he says it gets brought up maybe once a year in passing and is totally meaningless. His degree is packed up in his basement. We all have the same duty and job, he says. Which is why I get a little flamed up when I see some guy on this forum acting like this is some big competition and that his school "blows the competition away."
I'm out. I've said enough...
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Palo Alto has plush parts. It also has neighborhoods around it that are some of the roughest in the Bay Area. East Palo Alto was once the murder capital of the U.S. for a short time.Cat's Meow said:
Overall, Palo Alto is a lovely town and the tough parts are pretty easily identified. Just don't go there expecting a large strip mall for a town. It's more city than that.
As for money, Palo Alto is an expensive place to live but San Francisco is more so. SF is the second most expensive place in the US outside of Manhattan. But can you have fun on a limited budget? Absolutely. Like anywhere.
Palo Alto has more practicing jews per capita than any other city in the Bay Area. Keep in mind, the Bay Area does not have a very large jewish community compared to most eastern cities.Cat's Meow said:
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I don't know, I was talking to one of the biggest names at my Univ.'s SOM and he did his residency in ENT there and he said there was "NOT A CHANCE IN HELL" he'd reccommend it for med school b/c of what a poor job they do preparing their med students. He called it a "Zebra farm." I wasn't sure what that comment ment, but the first one I quoted seemed pretty clear to me.FutureMD! said:LOL of course Stanford is one of the best if not the best...who REALLY would argue with that? Did you really need to post this because frankly have you looked at the incoming freshman profile? To get even a interview at this school would require a stroke of genius, but you have to BE a genius to be in the entering class. Just my thoughts
P.s Not that I won't apply next year...from what I hear its all a crap shoot anyways.
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Zebra Farm ... LOL!
I'm guessing that's a House of God reference ... zebra being any obscure disease. To paraphrase, "when you hear hoofbeats, look for the zebra" instead of the garden-variety horse.
Disclaimer! This is an extremely incendiary thread that I can't bear to read all of, but I come from the Bay Area, and I'd give my left kidney to go anywhere in a 100 mile radius, PBL or not, zebras or horses, please don't start fighting again!!!
House of God, by Samuel Shem.
I'm guessing that's a House of God reference ... zebra being any obscure disease. To paraphrase, "when you hear hoofbeats, look for the zebra" instead of the garden-variety horse.
Disclaimer! This is an extremely incendiary thread that I can't bear to read all of, but I come from the Bay Area, and I'd give my left kidney to go anywhere in a 100 mile radius, PBL or not, zebras or horses, please don't start fighting again!!!
House of God, by Samuel Shem.
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clockitnow said:
Alpha Omega Alpha - the medical school honor society. It's similar to Phi Beta Kappa or Tau Beta Pi, but for med school
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Cat's Meow said:
Why is Stanford waiting so long to start interviews?
Wow calm down son. There not rolling admissions, so there in no rush. You shouldn't be either...
BREATHE
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Yeah, nothing like a timely response to a year-old post. Tigerstang, you really told that guy, son!dilated said:Might want to check the date on that one dude.Tigerstang said:
The gramatical error was a nice touch too!
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That's humor, thus theIndryd said:
after the sentence. I couldn't pass on the opportunity to reply to someone who used "son" to rip on such an old post, but I didn't want to be too hard on the guy... I didn't notice immediately that it was an old thread either!
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SailCrazy said:That's humor, thus the
I couldn't pass on the opportunity to reply to someone who used "son" to rip on such an old post, but I didn't want to be too hard on the guy... I didn't notice immediately that it was an old thread either!
I didn't use son in the derogatory. Believe it or not, not everyone here is white, son.
SailCrazy said:I can accept that you might not have intended a derogatory connotation, but what does race have to do with it?
I'm still laughing at the fact that the response was almost exactly a year after that original post.
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