Why the system is flawed

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You have a 3.3 cGPA and a 38 MCAT and didn't get into a single MD school? Did you get any interviews? Pretty shocking if you applied early enough. That combo would make you competitive at more than a few low-mid tier schools I think, especially with the incredibly strong upward trend.

I don't….not yet. That was a typo in my earlier post. My gpa is tanking right now, but I meant thats where I wanted to be, so I still have 2 years to reach there.

Thanks, but I know that if I get there I would have a shot at both MD and DO schools, but since academic elitism does unfortunately exist in the medical field, I was saying how people who have gpa turnarounds are disadvantaged for top school admissions even though they maybe qualified enough.
 
If a truck driver miscalculates a turn, he can take out a dozen pedestrians. Not a lot of room for error there, either.

Just saaaaaaayin'.

Oh, and I would say :troll: , but I love these sorts of threads, so by all means - please do!

This is the first troll feeding I've done here, and it's kind of fun. Is there a troll petting zoo around here?

I wouldn't do it in someone else's thread and hijack it, but here, it wasn't an important thread to begin with and it is his own!

Oh boohoo im sure LizzyM will live through it, she is after all the "resident expert".

Don't worry! I know she will. I've just never seen her angry at anyone!

And thats the point, the admissions process is too narrow minded. The only way of actually expressing yourself on the application is the essay and the interview, but that doesn't even really matter when your "numbers" aren't solid because thats the view that society has for doctors. Of course, being academically capable is important, but there are other things that are also important like I said earlier that don't get the same weight as your scoresm which really should.

And that is your opinion. The schools' opinions are that the numbers matter more than you think. And since they have the power here, they get to decide whose opinions to follow here (namely, theirs!)

You can't find anyone with less than 3.4 gpa at the top 20 schools who isn't a URM or who wasn't in the army for like 8 years. Thats the point im trying to make.

False. I work at WUSM Medical Center. I have met plenty of med students there who are not URMs, haven't been in the Army 8 years, and did have GPAs less than 3.4. Some of them did fascinating research as an Undergraduate which may have contributed to the lower GPA. Others just took a lot of grad level courses.
 
I don't….not yet. That was a typo in my earlier post. My gpa is tanking right now, but I meant thats where I wanted to be, so I still have 2 years to reach there.

Thanks, but I know that if I get there I would have a shot at both MD and DO schools, but since academic elitism does unfortunately exist in the medical field, I was saying how people who have gpa turnarounds are disadvantaged for top school admissions even though they maybe qualified enough.

Ah, I see.

Well I think that's pretty untrue actually. Obviously, with all other things being equal, I assume they'd prefer someone with a 3.8 cum and consistent grades throughout to you with your hypothetical 3.3 and two consecutive years of 4.0, but if you actually could get a 38 MCAT then I think that would definitely get in somewhere. There are more than a few MD schools with MCAT averages of 30 or below. It's true that most of them have average cGPA's of around 3.6, but with your upward trend then if you can beat their MCAT average by 6+ points, you'll be a competitive applicant there. Simple math.
 
This is the first troll feeding I've done here, and it's kind of fun. Is there a troll petting zoo around here?

I wouldn't do it in someone else's thread and hijack it, but here, it wasn't an important thread to begin with and it is his own!

It's not just KIND OF fun. It's AMAZINGLY fun! Oh, if only you could have been there for the opcn and Mascot threads. Especially the Mascot ones - they were so special. They'll always have a place in my heart.

And so you know - troll threads are a great +pad+ , if you stick to it. 😍
 
You're right. You're never going to be competitive with a defeatist attitude like that.

For what it's worth, I would kill to have realized my error two years into undergrad. I started this premed path with four years of a GPA significantly lower than yours. Sack it up, shut your mouth, and go get straight A's to prove a point. If you can't, get out of the game.
 
Well thanks LawNonTrad, at least someone on this forum is normal. I hope to be there, and am going to work hard towards it.

But it is still unfortunate that academic elitism still exists in a medical setting.

WuMedic: Good for you?
 
Well thanks LawNonTrad, at least someone on this forum is normal. I hope to be there, and am going to work hard towards it.

But it is still unfortunate that academic elitism still exists in a medical setting.

WuMedic: Good for you?

Actually, I'm probably almost as hated as you are on here, albeit for different reasons. 😛 But thanks.
 
Well I guess we're just too normal for these people loll.
 
True, but the room for error is much less in the medical field. If your doing a heart surgery, the slightest miscalculation could be very costly, unlike a tornado watch, or drafting a new bill.
I'm not responding to what you were saying, but I just feel like throwing police officers, fire fighters, EMTs, and beach life-guards into the mix. 😉
 
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I don't know how you still have 2 years of school to go but have already taken the MCAT and got a 38. I mean, I call BS on this. You probably have like a 3 and not taken the MCAT yet so you saying you will have these stats are bogus. That makes your bitching here about admissions process completely unfounded for someone who hasn't even gone through the process.

Guess what, there are PLENTY of people who are SMART AND COMPASSIONATE. Unfortunately for you. I, and those with family members who are ill, would rather have a smart doctor able to diagnose and treat the illness correctly with little compassion vs an idiotic compassionate doctor. I mean what's he gonna do after he ineptly kills your mom? Hold your hand and compassionately cries with you? Please.
 
I don't know how you still have 2 years of school to go but have already taken the MCAT and got a 38. I mean, I call BS on this. You probably have like a 3 and not taken the MCAT yet so you saying you will have these stats are bogus. That makes your bitching here about admissions process completely unfounded for someone who hasn't even gone through the process.

Guess what, there are PLENTY of people who are SMART AND COMPASSIONATE. Unfortunately for you. I, and those with family members who are ill, would rather have a smart doctor able to diagnose and treat the illness correctly with little compassion vs an idiotic compassionate doctor. I mean what's he gonna do after he ineptly kills your mom? Hold your hand and compassionately cries with you? Please.

Hey there ******, just read my earlier posts, I never said being intelligent was unimportant. As for the BS thing, it was a typo, but w/e you have fun being an SDN nerd, peace.
 
Hey there ******, just read my earlier posts, I never said being intelligent was unimportant. As for the BS thing, it was a typo, but w/e you have fun being an SDN nerd, peace.

Sounds like someone's got their panties in a tangle after being caught in a lie. SDN nerd? Please, I'm far from one. I get on here so I can amuse myself at the end of a long day with little dip****s like yourself. You know ... that long day in med school interacting with patients and stuff ... oh wait, you don't know anything about that since you're not in yet and probably will never make it. I'm sorry ... no actually, I'm not. Whatever, you can call me a nerd now, but I'll be a rich nerd in the future. You? Well, you'll stay a *******.
 
Is this thread really still going on? (Was the question I asked myself when I saw this thread on top of the list). After having re-read the OP's initial post again it all makes sense, here's why.

Although no one can prove it one way or another, it is hard to say. But ultimately, there are two points of views.

Evidence to Reality:

If we accept that the entire movie is not a dream, and that Cobb did in fact escape his limbo with Mal, then it is reasonable to believe he also escaped his limbo with Saito. Also, there are simple explanations as to why when he sees his kids again they look much like they did in his dream. For example, he never saw his kids faces so we cannot easily tell if they had aged much from his memory. In addition, the movie never defines the amount of time that has passed since Mal had died and Cobb was banned from the U.S. So the memory of his kids may only be a few months old, therefore it is very possible his kids look pretty much the same in the memories and in the present. In addition, the visual duration of the top spinning is never a trustworthy totem at all, since it is a property of the totem others can observe and recreate. If the top is to be trustworthy at all, it is Cobb's knowledge of how it feels to spin it that convinces him he is awake, not the duration of the spinning, which we can presume will end eventually in the final scene. Visually, there is an obvious difference between the wobbly spinning in the end-scene and the absolutely perfect spin in the safe during limbo, again implying the possibility that the final spin could be natural (though only the feel in Cobb's fingers would know for sure). It is alleged that at the end of the film Cobb's children are wearing different, albeit similar clothing compared to the clothes they wear in Cobb's subconscious. In the opening scene dream, you get a glimpse of Leo's hand. He's wearing his wedding ring. Now, if you follow the rest of the movie keeping an eye out for this you will notice that he only has the ring on when he's allegedly in a dream. At the end of the movie he isn't wearing the ring. If the ring only appears when he's in a dream and he's not wearing at the end of the film, that could be confirmation that in fact he woke up.

Evidence to Dream:

It is possible that the entire movie is a dream, and that Cobb never left his own limbo. The children appear the same age as in a previous memory, and in fact, appear to have the same motions and same clothes in the yard before turning around. It suggests to the viewer that this is exactly the same as his memory, and thus he could be still dreaming. How long the top spins is not a good totem, except in that it spinning forever is only possible in the dream world. A short-duration spin is a visual property that someone could easily recreate in a dream. If we trust the spinning top, it must be the exact feel in Cobb's fingers as he spins it that convinces him it is genuine. However, Cobb admits that the totem was originally Mal's totem, suggesting that he adopted it as his totem during limbo, making it impossible for him to know the true feel. In addition, a totem can not prove that you've woken up from your own dream, since you know it's true 'feel' and thus your subconscious can recreate it properly.

"Both theories are true" theory:

Movie has two main themes: the first one is that the line between dreams and reality can be imperceptible from the perspective of an individual; the second that an idea can be a parasite which, once incepted, can take over one's psyche. The ending simply reflects the fact that the idea that killed Mal has now taken over Cobb; he cannot discern whether he is now living in a dream or a reality, and we, the audience, witness that intimately. The gyro in the end falters, but we do not see whether it stops or not. Have we witnessed it stop, the movie would be essentially telling us "fear not, this is real and a happy end". Had the shot ended with it spinning, the movie would affirm the other theory. However, the shot as-is wants to ensure us that we do not know and we cannot know, because Cobb doesn't know anymore. The lack of definite answer IS the answer; for the rest of his life Cobb will wonder whether everything around him is real, and the audience is deliberately left with that same question hanging in their heads.

Notice that when Cobb is in his "Memory bank" with Ariadne, Cobb is looking out the window at his kids, he tells Ariadne that his greatest regret is not being able to alter this moment and see his children's beautiful faces again. That would imply that was Cobb's inception to himself. He finally did what he could never do before and altered the moment in which he saw his children and he sees their faces. Also, why was Miles there? He was living in France yet was waiting at the airport in the States (reason why MIles was there: When Cobb visitied Miles it was to give him a gift for his children. i.e. Miles was traveling to see Cobb's children in the near future). Even more confusing, Miles' wife, Mal's mother was taking care of Cobb's children in America yet we never see her at the house at the end. The inception itself could be altering his biggest regrets which spreads to every aspect of his life he winds up needing to alter.

Or Mal was right the whole time and he was actually still down one dream level and Mal is alive in reality and Cobb wasn't waking up.

The Spiritual / Metaphysical explanation: From a spiritual perspective there is a different reading again. This movie is one with a profound spiritual idea at its heart, for those interested - just as with 'The Matrix', and Guy Ritchie's 'Revolver'. In 'Inception', Nolan seems to be using the metaphysics given in 'A Course In Miracles', a seminal spiritual text from the 1970s that was purportedly channelled from Jesus and which continues to profoundly influence modern spiritual thinking. In ACIM the key idea is that what we think of as reality is in fact a dream - that there is no difference between the dreams we see at night, and what we see with our eyes open. Both are projections of our mind, which is trying to escape a core guilt by projecting guilt outside of itself onto projected 'dream figures'. (For more on this see the FAQ titled 'If the spinning top really did keep spinning at the end...'). Thus, although Cobb returned to 'reality', Nolan seems to be making the point that what we think of as 'reality' is still a dream. And, that within that dream, we see what we want to see - projection makes perception. Thus, the movie is devised so that some viewers look at the spinning top and see it as being about to fall over as the movie ends. They decide that the movie is saying that Cobb is back in 'reality' and not dreaming. Others see the top as going to continue spinning indefinitely. But, one then inevitably asks, how could Cobb be still in a dream? Which leads us to think hard, to debate, to share ideas, and perhaps eventually to question the unquestionable - that 'reality' is not what it seems to be. Nolan is cleverly sowing a key idea in our conciousness. So you could say the movie Inception is in itself... an inception! Within this interpretative framework, Nolan is reaching to us within the 'dream' that we call reality to help us to start to challenge our assumptions about 'reality' and begin to wake up - just as Cobb went into limbo to get Saito.

Yet for an inception to work, one must accept it as one's own thought process... so of course Nolan does not give interviews where he says, 'This is a movie where I'm trying to wake people up to the fact that they're dreaming'.

Clever stuff indeed!
 
Guess what, there are PLENTY of people who are SMART AND COMPASSIONATE. Unfortunately for you. I, and those with family members who are ill, would rather have a smart doctor able to diagnose and treat the illness correctly with little compassion vs an idiotic compassionate doctor. I mean what's he gonna do after he ineptly kills your mom? Hold your hand and compassionately cries with you? Please.

Ischemic, you posed a hypothetical to the original poster. Now I'll pose one to you. You have a choice of two students to admit to medical school. One student earned a 3.8 in college and a 28 on the MCAT. One student earned a 3.3 in college and a 38 on the MCAT. Who is more likely to be successful in medical school? Who is more likely to pass the USMLE exams? I think it's clearly the latter. I know of at least 15 of my friends/acquintances who have attended medical school in the past few years. One of them failed step 1. She got admitted to her state school with a 3.8 and a 28. From studies that I have read, substantially higher MCATs generally result in higher USMLE scores. I'd be a little more wary of the first student because I suspect that if they performed well enough in the prereqs and the other college courses to earn a 3.8, yet could only manage a 28 on the MCAT, that perhaps their college courses were not very rigorous (or their reasoning ability is not at the same level as the second student's). I'm using the 3.3 and 38 example as a hypothetical because that's what the original poster hopes to attain in a couple of years.

And regardless of what people may conclude from reading SDN, the average matriculant does not have both a high MCAT and a high GPA. From what I've seen, they are typically dramatically higher in one or they are around the average for both. Given the choice between the high GPA/low MCAT applicant and the low GPA/high MCAT applicant, I'd take the latter every time.
 
Wait, OP you seriously want us to believe that that was just a typo? You wrote:

"My cGPA is a 3.3, I had a 2.8 in my first two years of undergraduate where I didn't care, worked at a hospital, saw what medicine was about, and then got a 4.0 in my last two years, with a 38S MCAT. There are several stories like mine out there, and I think that people who did poorly, then "woke up" later have a solid understanding of what to sacrifice, what it takes, and the will to succeed."

That's like, a crapload of "typos", assuming you MEANT that you haven't finished the last 2 years or taken the MCAT yet. You're a f***ing ******* liar and it's as obvious as the light of day. Stop complaining just because you are too lazy to do your work like the rest of us. Seriously.
 
Sounds like someone's got their panties in a tangle after being caught in a lie. SDN nerd? Please, I'm far from one. I get on here so I can amuse myself at the end of a long day with little dip****s like yourself. You know ... that long day in med school interacting with patients and stuff ... oh wait, you don't know anything about that since you're not in yet and probably will never make it. I'm sorry ... no actually, I'm not. Whatever, you can call me a nerd now, but I'll be a rich nerd in the future. You? Well, you'll stay a *******.

Awww thats so cute, you insulted me by calling me a dip***t. That must have taken a lot of courage, im so proud of you. And you know whats really cute? You think I have no clinical experience…..but I have plenty and have interacted with patients too. And its really adorable to see you say that I won't get into med school, because all of us are aware of your psychic powers.

I feel sorry for those patients that have to see you Dr. fa***t.

@ zidrem: lol I meant I want to finish my undergrad with 3.3 and a 38S after working in a hospital in India and seeing what medicine is about.
 
Wait, OP you seriously want us to believe that that was just a typo? You wrote:

"My cGPA is a 3.3, I had a 2.8 in my first two years of undergraduate where I didn't care, worked at a hospital, saw what medicine was about, and then got a 4.0 in my last two years, with a 38S MCAT. There are several stories like mine out there, and I think that people who did poorly, then "woke up" later have a solid understanding of what to sacrifice, what it takes, and the will to succeed."

That's like, a crapload of "typos", assuming you MEANT that you haven't finished the last 2 years or taken the MCAT yet. You're a f***ing ******* liar and it's as obvious as the light of day. Stop complaining just because you are too lazy to do your work like the rest of us. Seriously.
👍👍👍
 
Here's my take on why the medical school admissions system is inherently flawed, but before I start let me state a few obvious points:


I think that med school admissions should include GPA, MCAT, but not admit people compromising their motivation and character. This is especially true for the top med schools, since I doubt my file would even get read at HMS or Columbia since my gpa isn't a 3.8 and I didn't graduate from Princeton (the only exception to this rule is a URM, and boy I wish I was Latino) and almost every Indian there had/has a 4.0 gpa. I think the system works in the opposite direction. If a candidate has an X gpa and an X MCAT score, we can look at his/her motivational aspects. I think that the motivational aspects should be the primary factor when reviewing an application before looking at the numerical "data". As a patient I would much rather be treated by the doctor who wanted to be a doctor because of a true internal motive, rather than some admissions criteria or solid numbers. Anyways go ahead and rip this post apart 😀.

LOL what did indians ever do to you? and take that "had" bull**** away every indians HAS a 4.0 anyday wassup
 
i just read parts of your original post and didnt read anyone elses replies but im sure everyone is thinking what i am thinking. STOP WHINING! you have noone to blame but yourself ... it doesnt matter if you didnt think about med school when you first started college ... you didnt work hard then... thats it! i barely graduated high school ... started off at a community college ready to work hard and worked my way to the top .. so far up high that I accumulated 9 acceptances last cycle. and believe me I am the last thing from a nerd. AND i didnt even think about medical school until my second year at Berkeley.

although i understand parts of the human psyche and your reasoning to come on an online forum and spend at least an hour on a post to make yourself feel better about your current situation... it still is pretty silly. the system aint flawed. this is a game. getting into med school is not about picking the most prepared students or the students that have the highest potential. its a freakn game and you got to play the game. jump through the hoops and if you want it bad enough you will go through all the BS. yes, even you with your crappy GPA and all the other shiz you whined about can still get into medical school if you play the game right. figure out your own path to medical school. everyone has their own.
 
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You're right. You're never going to be competitive with a defeatist attitude like that.

For what it's worth, I would kill to have realized my error two years into undergrad. I started this premed path with four years of a GPA significantly lower than yours. Sack it up, shut your mouth, and go get straight A's to prove a point. If you can't, get out of the game.

Well thanks LawNonTrad, at least someone on this forum is normal. I hope to be there, and am going to work hard towards it.

But it is still unfortunate that academic elitism still exists in a medical setting.

WuMedic: Good for you?



you guys are really weird lol ... how do you become hated on an online forum ... it must mean that in real life you guys must suckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


edit: sorry anon i thought i had lawnontrads post quoted, not yours. that was aimed at lawnontrad ad tompi
 
EDIT: That was a typo, and I wish SDN had a way of going back and fixing those older posts. I meant I want to get a 4.0 for the next two years, with a 38S MCAT……
Liar!

Awww thats so cute, you insulted me by calling me a dip***t. That must have taken a lot of courage, im so proud of you. And you know whats really cute? You think I have no clinical experience…..but I have plenty and have interacted with patients too. And its really adorable to see you say that I won't get into med school, because all of us are aware of your psychic powers.

I feel sorry for those patients that have to see you Dr. fa***t.

@ zidrem: lol I meant I want to finish my undergrad with 3.3 and a 38S after working in a hospital in India and seeing what medicine is about.
You'll make a horrible doctor.
I'm so glad that you lack the motivation, intelligence, common sense, and stats to get into med school.
Thanks for putting a smile to my face =)

Two years, and my cGPA is 2.73 lol…..wow i think epic fail sums it up pretty nicely.
HAHAHAA
 
@ zidrem: lol I meant I want to finish my undergrad with 3.3 and a 38S after working in a hospital in India and seeing what medicine is about.

No, like, I don't think you get how obvious it is that you're lying. Say that you really did just make typos, then that means you should have written the following paragraph:

"My cGPA is a 3.3, I had a 2.8 in my first two years of undergraduate where I didn't care, worked at a hospital, saw what medicine was about, and then got a 4.0 in my last two years, with a 38S MCAT."

as something like

"My cGPA will hopefully be a 3.3 after two year. I have a 2.8 now because I haven't cared about my school work up to this point, but I worked at a hospital, saw what medicine was about, and so now I want to strive for a 4.0 for my last two years, and something like a 38S MCAT."

I had to change like at least 20 words to adjust the paragraph so that it matches up with your current version of the story. That's a s**t ton of typos.

So what this means, is either:

A: You're so f***ing ******ed and bad at English that you literally made 20 typos and regularly confuse verb tenses.

or

B: (the actual situation) you're a douchebag liar who really thinks that the lovely people on this forum can't see through your bullcrap.

Either way, these are not good qualities for someone hoping to be a successful doctor. If, as you say, it is such a noble and "transcendent" profession, then you sure as hell don't make the cut. I wouldn't even want you driving f***ing trucks.

Also why do you want a 38S specifically? What is so special about the S? If you can't even write correct verb tenses, you aren't going to get an S anyway...
 
Is this thread really still going on? (Was the question I asked myself when I saw this thread on top of the list). After having re-read the OP's initial post again it all makes sense, here's why.

Although no one can prove it one way or another, it is hard to say. But ultimately, there are two points of views.

Evidence to Reality:

If we accept that the entire movie is not a dream, and that Cobb did in fact escape his limbo with Mal, then it is reasonable to believe he also escaped his limbo with Saito. Also, there are simple explanations as to why when he sees his kids again they look much like they did in his dream. For example, he never saw his kids faces so we cannot easily tell if they had aged much from his memory. In addition, the movie never defines the amount of time that has passed since Mal had died and Cobb was banned from the U.S. So the memory of his kids may only be a few months old, therefore it is very possible his kids look pretty much the same in the memories and in the present. In addition, the visual duration of the top spinning is never a trustworthy totem at all, since it is a property of the totem others can observe and recreate. If the top is to be trustworthy at all, it is Cobb's knowledge of how it feels to spin it that convinces him he is awake, not the duration of the spinning, which we can presume will end eventually in the final scene. Visually, there is an obvious difference between the wobbly spinning in the end-scene and the absolutely perfect spin in the safe during limbo, again implying the possibility that the final spin could be natural (though only the feel in Cobb's fingers would know for sure). It is alleged that at the end of the film Cobb's children are wearing different, albeit similar clothing compared to the clothes they wear in Cobb's subconscious. In the opening scene dream, you get a glimpse of Leo's hand. He's wearing his wedding ring. Now, if you follow the rest of the movie keeping an eye out for this you will notice that he only has the ring on when he's allegedly in a dream. At the end of the movie he isn't wearing the ring. If the ring only appears when he's in a dream and he's not wearing at the end of the film, that could be confirmation that in fact he woke up.

Evidence to Dream:

It is possible that the entire movie is a dream, and that Cobb never left his own limbo. The children appear the same age as in a previous memory, and in fact, appear to have the same motions and same clothes in the yard before turning around. It suggests to the viewer that this is exactly the same as his memory, and thus he could be still dreaming. How long the top spins is not a good totem, except in that it spinning forever is only possible in the dream world. A short-duration spin is a visual property that someone could easily recreate in a dream. If we trust the spinning top, it must be the exact feel in Cobb's fingers as he spins it that convinces him it is genuine. However, Cobb admits that the totem was originally Mal's totem, suggesting that he adopted it as his totem during limbo, making it impossible for him to know the true feel. In addition, a totem can not prove that you've woken up from your own dream, since you know it's true 'feel' and thus your subconscious can recreate it properly.

"Both theories are true" theory:

Movie has two main themes: the first one is that the line between dreams and reality can be imperceptible from the perspective of an individual; the second that an idea can be a parasite which, once incepted, can take over one's psyche. The ending simply reflects the fact that the idea that killed Mal has now taken over Cobb; he cannot discern whether he is now living in a dream or a reality, and we, the audience, witness that intimately. The gyro in the end falters, but we do not see whether it stops or not. Have we witnessed it stop, the movie would be essentially telling us "fear not, this is real and a happy end". Had the shot ended with it spinning, the movie would affirm the other theory. However, the shot as-is wants to ensure us that we do not know and we cannot know, because Cobb doesn't know anymore. The lack of definite answer IS the answer; for the rest of his life Cobb will wonder whether everything around him is real, and the audience is deliberately left with that same question hanging in their heads.

Notice that when Cobb is in his "Memory bank" with Ariadne, Cobb is looking out the window at his kids, he tells Ariadne that his greatest regret is not being able to alter this moment and see his children's beautiful faces again. That would imply that was Cobb's inception to himself. He finally did what he could never do before and altered the moment in which he saw his children and he sees their faces. Also, why was Miles there? He was living in France yet was waiting at the airport in the States (reason why MIles was there: When Cobb visitied Miles it was to give him a gift for his children. i.e. Miles was traveling to see Cobb's children in the near future). Even more confusing, Miles' wife, Mal's mother was taking care of Cobb's children in America yet we never see her at the house at the end. The inception itself could be altering his biggest regrets which spreads to every aspect of his life he winds up needing to alter.

Or Mal was right the whole time and he was actually still down one dream level and Mal is alive in reality and Cobb wasn't waking up.

The Spiritual / Metaphysical explanation: From a spiritual perspective there is a different reading again. This movie is one with a profound spiritual idea at its heart, for those interested - just as with 'The Matrix', and Guy Ritchie's 'Revolver'. In 'Inception', Nolan seems to be using the metaphysics given in 'A Course In Miracles', a seminal spiritual text from the 1970s that was purportedly channelled from Jesus and which continues to profoundly influence modern spiritual thinking. In ACIM the key idea is that what we think of as reality is in fact a dream - that there is no difference between the dreams we see at night, and what we see with our eyes open. Both are projections of our mind, which is trying to escape a core guilt by projecting guilt outside of itself onto projected 'dream figures'. (For more on this see the FAQ titled 'If the spinning top really did keep spinning at the end...'). Thus, although Cobb returned to 'reality', Nolan seems to be making the point that what we think of as 'reality' is still a dream. And, that within that dream, we see what we want to see - projection makes perception. Thus, the movie is devised so that some viewers look at the spinning top and see it as being about to fall over as the movie ends. They decide that the movie is saying that Cobb is back in 'reality' and not dreaming. Others see the top as going to continue spinning indefinitely. But, one then inevitably asks, how could Cobb be still in a dream? Which leads us to think hard, to debate, to share ideas, and perhaps eventually to question the unquestionable - that 'reality' is not what it seems to be. Nolan is cleverly sowing a key idea in our conciousness. So you could say the movie Inception is in itself... an inception! Within this interpretative framework, Nolan is reaching to us within the 'dream' that we call reality to help us to start to challenge our assumptions about 'reality' and begin to wake up - just as Cobb went into limbo to get Saito.

Yet for an inception to work, one must accept it as one's own thought process... so of course Nolan does not give interviews where he says, 'This is a movie where I'm trying to wake people up to the fact that they're dreaming'.

Clever stuff indeed!

I'd recommend spoiler tags for those who haven't seen the movie.
 
Awww thats so cute, you insulted me by calling me a dip***t. That must have taken a lot of courage, im so proud of you. And you know whats really cute? You think I have no clinical experience…..but I have plenty and have interacted with patients too. And its really adorable to see you say that I won't get into med school, because all of us are aware of your psychic powers.

I feel sorry for those patients that have to see you Dr. fa***t.

@ zidrem: lol I meant I want to finish my undergrad with 3.3 and a 38S after working in a hospital in India and seeing what medicine is about.

Awww poor baby, did I huwt your feewings?? There there little indian baby, one day you can finally get into medical school and get that validation you so desperately crave or that arranged marriage that you got rejected from cause you're a worthless piece of humanity floating down the river of mediocrity. I'm sure your clinical experience is vast and mighty all powerful loser. What did you do exactly? Change old peoples bedsheets after they shate on it? Carry x-rays around? Or maybe you're the premed that pushed the docs out the way as a patient was coding and said "don't worry, I'm a sub 3.0 premed with a high MCAT, I know what I'm doing." I don't need psychic powers to know you'll not get into medical school. Barely a 3 GPA won't cut it anywhere except maybe the Caribbean. The extent of your originality of insults sucks just as bad as your GPA. Damn, you really cut to the core with that homophobic insult, I'm SOOOOO hurt. All I have to say is that it takes one to know one and maybe if you stopped thinking about the D you're all hot and bothered about you may actually come up with a lie that actually makes sense.
 
Oh boohoo im sure LizzyM will live through it, she is after all the "resident expert".

And thats the point, the admissions process is too narrow minded. The only way of actually expressing yourself on the application is the essay and the interview, but that doesn't even really matter when your "numbers" aren't solid because thats the view that society has for doctors. Of course, being academically capable is important, but there are other things that are also important like I said earlier that don't get the same weight as your scoresm which really should. You can't find anyone with less than 3.4 gpa at the top 20 schools who isn't a URM or who wasn't in the army for like 8 years. Thats the point im trying to make.

No. Just...no.

First of all, there's no way to know what one's true motivations are. You're going to get a lot of different seemingly heartfelt responses on people's essays, and to say one is truer than the other is essentially impossible. Also, considering the motivations of some other people I know- deaths, illnesses, various family troubles- the whole "I spent a summer in India and now I want to get a 4.0" frankly doesn't impress me. You make the (common) mistake of thinking that if you have a good gpa, it must mean you're just a nerd who's getting good grades for their own sake- have you ever considered that maybe they're just MORE motivated than you are? I'm not saying the academic uber-nerds don't exist, but to say that you're inherently better because of a summer you spent abroad is ridiculous.

Incidentally, you mention more than once the fact that you're Indian. I can name at least 4 Indian friends of mine whose parents are forcing them to go into medicine. I think "not pissing off my parents" is a pretty decent motivation to get a 4.0, don't you?

One of your complaints seems to be that you're not given enough credit because of the name of your college, but that Harvard would have looked better on the transcript. Your implication is that it's unfair for a name to matter that much when compared to your "motivation". Besides the obvious argument of "well, maybe you could have worked harder in high school", I find it hilarious that you bitch about the impossibility of your going to a top 20 school. So does name matter, or doesn't it? What makes a top 20 school so much inherently better in your eyes that you wish they would take you? If you're so motivated to "just help people" and go save the children of India, why does it matter where you go? Hell, why don't you go into nursing? Maybe Harvard DOES look better on a transcript.

Incidentally, I feel a lot more pity for the people who major in something absurdly hard or go to super difficult, grade-deflating schools and then can't get into med school. I think THAT's a sign of a broken system. I can't tell you how many brilliant engineers I've met who just can't get past their gpa. That really bugs me. But you went to a totally doable college, managed to get a super low gpa, and want to get an A for effort because you've seen the light? Sorry. You're suffering from "special little snowflake" syndrome- no one knows who you are and there are tons of people out there better than you. It's just a matter of fact.





EDIT: That was a typo, and I wish SDN had a way of going back and fixing those older posts. I meant I want to get a 4.0 for the next two years, with a 38S MCAT……

1) I never said GPA and MCAT aren't important, the point is that it shouldn't transcend factors such as motivation and character, which it does.

2) People like me are out of the race for the majority of the medical schools. I don't care about getting into HMS, I would be happy with any type of admission but the point is, that those kinds of schools inherently prefer the "typical" candidate, and the a-typical ones aren't even considered.

That is the biggest piece of crap excuse for being caught in a lie I've ever heard. "Teh" instead of "the" is a typo. What you wrote was BS.
 
for once, I wish you people would just ignore these provocateur threads and not waste your time.
 
Well you see, that's generally my policy, but I think this guy is actually serious, and that's...insane.

lol, you think you changed his mind? I don't know about you, but i feel like this whole forum has gotten way too radical for my tastes; sometimes it seems like I'm watching Bill O'Reilly berate some old army Colonel on his exit strategy.
 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5kPUFxXYLs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
:laugh:
 
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you guys are really weird lol ... how do you become hated on an online forum ... it must mean that in real life you guys must suckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


edit: sorry anon i thought i had lawnontrads post quoted, not yours. that was aimed at lawnontrad ad tompi

Nope, I have a pretty big friends circle in real life, but they are all normal people, not a bunch of neurotic freakazoids who bitch people out for trying to make a point, but then again, im sure your used to it. it is SDN.
 
This is the first troll feeding I've done here, and it's kind of fun. Is there a troll petting zoo around here?
Feeding trolls is like feeding bears. The troll will lose its fear of humiliation, and begins to associate forums with food. They will keep coming back and displaying increasing aggression.

Eventually the troll must be humanely destroyed, because it can never return to its natural wild state.

Please, do not feed the trolls. It's bad for the trolls, and creates a hazardous nuisance around the forums.
 
No. Just...no.

First of all, there's no way to know what one's true motivations are. You're going to get a lot of different seemingly heartfelt responses on people's essays, and to say one is truer than the other is essentially impossible. Also, considering the motivations of some other people I know- deaths, illnesses, various family troubles- the whole "I spent a summer in India and now I want to get a 4.0" frankly doesn't impress me. You make the (common) mistake of thinking that if you have a good gpa, it must mean you're just a nerd who's getting good grades for their own sake- have you ever considered that maybe they're just MORE motivated than you are? I'm not saying the academic uber-nerds don't exist, but to say that you're inherently better because of a summer you spent abroad is ridiculous.

Incidentally, you mention more than once the fact that you're Indian. I can name at least 4 Indian friends of mine whose parents are forcing them to go into medicine. I think "not pissing off my parents" is a pretty decent motivation to get a 4.0, don't you?

One of your complaints seems to be that you're not given enough credit because of the name of your college, but that Harvard would have looked better on the transcript. Your implication is that it's unfair for a name to matter that much when compared to your "motivation". Besides the obvious argument of "well, maybe you could have worked harder in high school", I find it hilarious that you bitch about the impossibility of your going to a top 20 school. So does name matter, or doesn't it? What makes a top 20 school so much inherently better in your eyes that you wish they would take you? If you're so motivated to "just help people" and go save the children of India, why does it matter where you go? Hell, why don't you go into nursing? Maybe Harvard DOES look better on a transcript.

Incidentally, I feel a lot more pity for the people who major in something absurdly hard or go to super difficult, grade-deflating schools and then can't get into med school. I think THAT's a sign of a broken system. I can't tell you how many brilliant engineers I've met who just can't get past their gpa. That really bugs me. But you went to a totally doable college, managed to get a super low gpa, and want to get an A for effort because you've seen the light? Sorry. You're suffering from "special little snowflake" syndrome- no one knows who you are and there are tons of people out there better than you. It's just a matter of fact.
oh my god yet more awesomenes...
 
Awww poor baby, did I huwt your feewings?? There there little indian baby, one day you can finally get into medical school and get that validation you so desperately crave or that arranged marriage that you got rejected from cause you're a worthless piece of humanity floating down the river of mediocrity.

I'm sure your clinical experience is vast and mighty all powerful loser. What did you do exactly? Change old peoples bedsheets after they shate on it? Carry x-rays around? Or maybe you're the premed that pushed the docs out the way as a patient was coding and said "don't worry, I'm a sub 3.0 premed with a high MCAT, I know what I'm doing."
I don't need psychic powers to know you'll not get into medical school. Barely a 3 GPA won't cut it anywhere except maybe the Caribbean. The extent of your originality of insults sucks just as bad as your GPA.
Damn, you really cut to the core with that homophobic insult, I'm SOOOOO hurt. All I have to say is that it takes one to know one and maybe if you stopped thinking about the D you're all hot and bothered about you may actually come up with a lie that actually makes sense.

1) Don't worry, Ill help find the right man for you, so that you don't have to feel so lonely anymore. He's out there waiting…..you and you gay partner can then go frolic in the meadow together. Its gonna be a tough search because even gay people have standards, so its gonna be an uphill battle for you.

2) At least those patients were happy man, I just feel sad for the people that have to deal with you because I would hate to see the same bitch every day.

3) Once I get into med school, ill just look back and laugh at this.

4) I don't care what you or anyone else says man, because at the end of the day, I know Ill be a doctor, and a good one too. So you can just stfu and suck my dick just like your used to 🙂.

imgres
 
Last edited:
No. Just...no.

First of all, there's no way to know what one's true motivations are. You're going to get a lot of different seemingly heartfelt responses on people's essays, and to say one is truer than the other is essentially impossible. Also, considering the motivations of some other people I know- deaths, illnesses, various family troubles- the whole "I spent a summer in India and now I want to get a 4.0" frankly doesn't impress me. You make the (common) mistake of thinking that if you have a good gpa, it must mean you're just a nerd who's getting good grades for their own sake- have you ever considered that maybe they're just MORE motivated than you are? I'm not saying the academic uber-nerds don't exist, but to say that you're inherently better because of a summer you spent abroad is ridiculous.

Incidentally, you mention more than once the fact that you're Indian. I can name at least 4 Indian friends of mine whose parents are forcing them to go into medicine. I think "not pissing off my parents" is a pretty decent motivation to get a 4.0, don't you?

One of your complaints seems to be that you're not given enough credit because of the name of your college, but that Harvard would have looked better on the transcript. Your implication is that it's unfair for a name to matter that much when compared to your "motivation". Besides the obvious argument of "well, maybe you could have worked harder in high school", I find it hilarious that you bitch about the impossibility of your going to a top 20 school. So does name matter, or doesn't it? What makes a top 20 school so much inherently better in your eyes that you wish they would take you? If you're so motivated to "just help people" and go save the children of India, why does it matter where you go? Hell, why don't you go into nursing? Maybe Harvard DOES look better on a transcript.

Incidentally, I feel a lot more pity for the people who major in something absurdly hard or go to super difficult, grade-deflating schools and then can't get into med school. I think THAT's a sign of a broken system. I can't tell you how many brilliant engineers I've met who just can't get past their gpa. That really bugs me. But you went to a totally doable college, managed to get a super low gpa, and want to get an A for effort because you've seen the light? Sorry. You're suffering from "special little snowflake" syndrome- no one knows who you are and there are tons of people out there better than you. It's just a matter of fact.







That is the biggest piece of crap excuse for being caught in a lie I've ever heard. "Teh" instead of "the" is a typo. What you wrote was BS.

1) You know nothing about my past, about what I have been through, and what I have seen. I don't need to explain any of that to you but you can't judge my motivation if you know nothing about me.

2) I want to be a doctor, so if I go to USC, or if I go to Stanford, its all the same. Sure I would like to have a shot at Harvard, I think its fair to say anyone would. But the whole point about why I started this thread is that people like me don't and I think thats unfair.

3) When the hell did I say that I was more intelligent than that 3.8 Harvard grad? I know im not, thats not the point I was trying to make.
 
So you can just stfu and suck my dick just like your used to 🙂.

Not nice language buddy.

You bring this on yourself. Don't complain, it serves no purpose.

"I think things suck"

OK, so what? You can't do anything about it. Just buckle up and do all you can. You must have the mistaken idea that everyone else thinks everything is perfect. We don't. No one thinks the system is ideal, but the mature person just looks at it and understands everything is a hoop to jump through. They don't stop to ponder about things they can't change. If you can't change it then don't waste time thinking about it.

I read your other posts. People have told you time and time again to go to work. Get work done. But you constantly come back for no reason (this thread has accomplished nothing for you). Plus you went DO bashing on your other thread. I'm afraid trying to teach you anything is wasting time now, but I tried anyway.

With your posts, I can't imagine you being here too much longer.
 
Here's my take on why the medical school admissions system is inherently flawed, but before I start let me state a few obvious points:

1) Im not bitching about it, just trying to say why I think its flawed, which leads to……

2) I don't expect AAMCAS to magically change the system overnight, I realize that I have no choice of getting into medical school unless I actually go through with this system when I apply.

3) Any admissions system, be it undergrad, grad, medical, law, etc. is flawed in some sense since many qualified candidates are rejected due to space limitations, etc.

4) This is pretty biased, would I post this if I had a 3.9 cGPA at Harvard and awesome ec's/lor's? I don't know, but thats not where I am.

Getting into medical school is different from getting into any other professional school because being a doctor is different than any other kind of profession out there. Being a doctor places a sense of responsibility that transcends the kind of work any other profession will require. No one is going to die if they lose revenue, no one is going to die if their experiment fails, or if they lose a court case. That kind of assurance isn't prevalent in this field because if a doctor makes a mistake, the patient may very well die.

Yes all of this is obvious, but moving on, we're dealing with a profession where the cost of failure may result in death or some serious permanent physical or mental problem. Therefore a medical student needs to be able to deal with that kind of pressure, be successful in a high-paced academic environment, and still be sane after all of it because there's four years of school + a lifetime of pressure. Therefore the motivation to be a doctor can't stem from an external source in a person because the pressure of med school will outweigh the pleasure of having those external benefits. Therefore the motivation to be a doctor must be purely internal. Most medical schools follow a standard in the admission of such qualified candidates.

GPA - The filtering factor. Shows the kind of work ethic a candidate has displayed through four years of undergraduate education.

MCAT - Said to measure the potential to do well in med school in a candidate.

LOR/Essay - Reveals character.

EC's - Also reveals character, shows interest and maturity.

Undergrad institution - A very tertiary or quaternary factor, but plays a much bigger role in the higher ranked medical schools.

Im not saying that the system is wrong, because each of these factors need to be considered, just that its flawed. Adcoms are too focused on selecting their version of the "best" candidate. i.e. the one who excels in all of the four fields above, but unlike undergraduate admissions, a candidate who does not excel in one of the above fields is severely disadvantaged due to the fact that the competition is much more.

But let's look at this from a different angle. Take my story, im not writing this for some pity "awww poor you" response, or "don't worry about it, you'll get in" response. There are several others out there like me, and im stating this for the sole purpose of showing a flaw in the system. My cGPA is a 3.3, I had a 2.8 in my first two years of undergraduate where I didn't care, worked at a hospital, saw what medicine was about, and then got a 4.0 in my last two years, with a 38S MCAT. There are several stories like mine out there, and I think that people who did poorly, then "woke up" later have a solid understanding of what to sacrifice, what it takes, and the will to succeed. If I had gotten a consistent 3.8 my entire undergraduate, I don't think I would fully appreciate why I was working so hard beyond the fact that med schools need to see a high GPA.

Before you nerds out there pounce on me, let me finish. Compare this to someone who slacked off for two years, went through a traumatic experience and did really well after. My motivation is not stimulated by some admissions process criteria, but an internal lesson that I learned while working at a hospital in India. A lot of you nerds out there have some internal motivation to be a doctor as well as a 4.0 gpa, and good for you, I wish that I was in your boat, but you live and you learn.

Am I calling myself more intelligent or capable than the 4.0 Harvard grad? No, im an Indian whose Indian friends all go to schools like Cornell, MIT, Berkley, and have 3.8 gpa's while im the only one in my family and family friends circle at a small college in southern Illinois with a 3.3 gpa. Im not saying that Im more intelligent or capable at all.

To summarize so far:

- Being a physician places a responsibility on someone which transcends the responsibility of other professions.

- The motivation to want to be a physician should be internal.

- The admissions system relies on a specific set of criteria for admission.

- Its focused on analyzing which candidate is the "best" in the given criteria.

- Late bloomers have an internal motivation to be a doctor.

The flaw (finally!):

The flaw of this system is that it never really allows candidates who were late bloomers to get a fair review, because:

1) The fact that they have a compromised GPA is seen as a red flag, rather than asking why its so.

2) Academic elitism and favoritism is just wrong. What's the point of having a great character if that 3.8 Harvard grad is going to get preference anyway?

3) Even though we are free to discuss this in the essay and interview, it still gets stacked against us when compared to an applicant with superior "criteria". This isn't entirely wrong, since it makes sense, but it leads to my final point……

I think that med school admissions should include GPA, MCAT, but not admit people compromising their motivation and character. This is especially true for the top med schools, since I doubt my file would even get read at HMS or Columbia since my gpa isn't a 3.8 and I didn't graduate from Princeton (the only exception to this rule is a URM, and boy I wish I was Latino) and almost every Indian there had/has a 4.0 gpa. I think the system works in the opposite direction. If a candidate has an X gpa and an X MCAT score, we can look at his/her motivational aspects. I think that the motivational aspects should be the primary factor when reviewing an application before looking at the numerical "data". As a patient I would much rather be treated by the doctor who wanted to be a doctor because of a true internal motive, rather than some admissions criteria or solid numbers. Anyways go ahead and rip this post apart 😀.



[YOUTUBE]WAOxY_nHdew[/YOUTUBE]
 
I think my favorite part of this thread is how he keeps calling everyone who calls him out gay and referencing penises. It's like he thinks it's an insult!

But hey, Tompi - don't make promises you can't keep. If you can't hook me up with someone, male or female, that's just blatant false advertising. Nobody likes that, man.

That, or this is a classic case of projection. :laugh:
 
Your aspiration to practice medicine is making you foolish. Lots of people in lots of different professions can let someone (or many someones) die by screwing up. Just to name a few, firefighters, architects, automobile designers, police officers, soldiers, nuclear power plant operators, farm workers, airplane pilots, and electric company workers all have lives depending on them. I could keep going with this list. Being a doctor may be a noble calling, but it is by no means the only profession with lives depending on it. To say that it is makes you sound clueless.

Right on. I know of many careers that are as important i not more than being a physician. I must say this attitude is rampant in medicine, even among some adcoms.

That lowly mechanic who just changed your breaks, yeah that one without a hgh school diploma, your life is in his hands too.
 
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I think my favorite part of this thread is how he keeps calling everyone who calls him out gay and referencing penises. It's like he thinks it's an insult!

But hey, Tompi - don't make promises you can't keep. If you can't hook me up with someone, male or female, that's just blatant false advertising. Nobody likes that, man.

That, or this is a classic case of projection. :laugh:
ugh i know. i thought adults knew better by now than to use words like gay and ****** as slurs. we're all adults here, right?
 
:boom:Bring on the flame. I know I'm about to get flamed. Doesn't make it less true.

Whether or not he is trolling is irrelevant. Don't you know that by "stooping to his level" (though I'm not sure that's what this is. I mean, seriously... many of you tried to flame him before most of this came out...) you are becoming just as bad?

Yes. He complained. But what did you expect from a post titled "Why the system is flawed"? Happy kittens frolicking through the meadow? Give the guy a break. Nobody had to reply. Nobody had to feed the troll, if in fact he is a troll. None of you even had to read the post!

I am a fan of discussion and maybe even mild argument. What is going on in this thread is really kind of sad. Reread the posts. While it is one thing to point out a person's failing (like complaining because their credentials suck... or the sucky credentials themselves), why do you feel it necessary to belittle him? It really turned into a middle school name calling contest. It gives us pre-meds a bad name. If you're like this before you get the white coat, the money, and the power... I'd hate to see you then.

As far as the "Do I want a compassionate doctor or an intelligent doctor" issue, I would think that we would all like both. The name calling was just crossing the line. You guys are going to be doctors (some of you, we can only hope...). Act like it. That doesn't mean acting like a douchebag every time someone posts something you don't like. It doesn't mean belittling people to fulfill yourself.

Doctors are supposed to be public servants. Not moneyhungry, douchebag, uncompassionate, myopic *****s. YES, we are intelligent beings (or at least I would like to think a large majority of pre-meds are, in some capacity, intelligent). But that doesn't mean participating in douchebaggery. YES, we have bigger paychecks. It doesn't mean we are better than the man who is picking up your trash. We all play the hand we were dealt. Some of us just aren't good poker players, unfortunately. For whatever reason, tompi didn't play his hand as well as he could have. I think that's all of us at some point. Some people screw up in situations that don't really matter. Some people get the big things wrong. Some people are in between.

I read his post and was like "Oh... its just a rant. He's just complaining. Nothing really relevant." How we got to the current flamewar is beyond me. He stated his opinion. He was immediately flamed for it. No constructive criticism. Just pure flame.

Do I think whining is constructive? No. Do I think that tompi was trolling? Well, the evidence is a little stacked against him. Fabricating a story in a complaint-oriented post smells a little of troll to me. But hey, who am I to say?

Do I think that all of you who proceeded to mercilessly barbeque tompi should have found a better way to occupy your time? Yes. Double yes. Don't you know if you ignore them, they go away? You leave the forums after posting, smug because you really showed him! You look like a fool. What person delights in tearing people down on an online forum? Maybe all of you could try to send him in a positive direction instead of looking like a bunch of jerks.

Tompi, look. If you messed up, fix it. If you can't fix it, keep trying until you do. If you are passionate about medicine, keep at it. If you can't get your MD, get into medicine in another area. Add flavor to your future application. Volunteer a lot. Research would be cool as well, you know. The forums are filled with lots of wonderful info on how to rock out your application. Read, take heed.


So guys... lighten up. Don't reply. Just walk away. Move on to topics that are actually CONSTRUCTIVE.

Again, OVERSTATED by now...

:troll:



And I know what you're all thinking. Yes, you can use the word "douchebaggery" from now on. 😛 Go ahead. I encourage it.
 
1) Don't worry, Ill help find the right man for you, so that you don't have to feel so lonely anymore. He's out there waiting…..you and you gay partner can then go frolic in the meadow together. Its gonna be a tough search because even gay people have standards, so its gonna be an uphill battle for you.

2) At least those patients were happy man, I just feel sad for the people that have to deal with you because I would hate to see the same bitch every day.

3) Once I get into med school, ill just look back and laugh at this.

4) I don't care what you or anyone else says man, because at the end of the day, I know Ill be a doctor, and a good one too. So you can just stfu and suck my dick just like your used to 🙂.

imgres

a ***** and a complete homophobe. ::golf clap::

i bet you 100 bucks you never go to medical school

i bet you 1000 bucks you don't score a 38 or above.
 
EDIT: That was a typo, and I wish SDN had a way of going back and fixing those older posts. I meant I want to get a 4.0 for the next two years, with a 38S MCAT……

It does. It is that little "edit" button at the bottom of your post.

1) I never said GPA and MCAT aren't important, the point is that it shouldn't transcend factors such as motivation and character, which it does.

We've determined that you did not make typos but that you misrepresented yourself. That speaks volumes about your character.

2) People like me are out of the race for the majority of the medical schools. I don't care about getting into HMS, I would be happy with any type of admission but the point is, that those kinds of schools inherently prefer the "typical" candidate, and the a-typical ones aren't even considered.

Yes, people like you are out of the race. But not for the reasons you think.

My initial response to you was because I thought, "with a 4.0 over two recent years and a 38, this guy has a shot" and that the proof of the pudding would be at the end of the admission cycle. Now we see you for what you are and it is quite pitiful.
 
System is flawed. But it is best for what it does. Why should an adcom take you over someone who has c3.8 and a 38? There are too many competitive people out there who are BETTER than you stats wise and competitive schools much rather roll with them.

Stats aren't everything but they do get one over a major speedbump with ease. You can get over that speedbump if you are traveling at less than the optimal speed (although it is possible to be going too slow to get over the hump) but it is going to be more difficult.

It is impossible to fit 38,000 applicants into 18,000 seats. More than half of the applicants in a given year are going to be empty handed at the end of the season. It isn't pretty and it doesn't make me happy to report that but it is a fact. If the writing on the wall indicates that you will not be one of the luck 44%, think about what attracts you to medicine and look into similar careers.
 
Man, people don't belive me when I say SDN has some of the most vicious posters.

The OP was just venting and spoke from a future postion. No need for 95 scathing replies calling the OP and idiot. I mean, jeez, this isn't 4chan, this is an education forum.

In any case, I think a lot of people aren't happy with the admisions process, but the reality of the situation is that its the best process that can logically be used. For example, I always thought it pretty stupid that GPA and MCAT are weighed evenly. I studied for the MCAT over one summer and I got a 34. Meanwhile my GPA reflects months and months and months of schoolwork and literally hundreds of exams. Thousands of hours were spent studying to get my GPA where it is today, and its wieghed the same as one test that I took over the summer when nothing else was going on.

Do you know how many more hours I would of had to spend in undergrad to raise my GPA from a 3.7 to a 4.0? Yet GPA is weighed the same as the MCAT, where getting 4 more questions right would raise your MCAT from a 37 to a 40. I'm sorry, but GPA wieghing the same as MCAT seems to be a pretty silly admissions tendency. (not that I'm complaining, I have a lower GPA and a solid MCAT)

But alas, even with these admissions policy quirks, there is no better alternative. Such is life.


EDIT: LizzyM has a very good point. Not cut out for the MD admission stats but you still really want to help people and go into medicine? Become a Nurse, PA, NP, DO, or similar. Many of these professions are more then happy to accept you into their ranks and you will proably get even more hands on time with the patient then the MDs do.
 
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Man, people don't belive me when I say SDN has some of the most vicious posters.

The OP was just venting and spoke from a future postion. No need for 95 scathing replies calling the OP and idiot. I mean, jeez, this isn't 4chan, this is an education forum.

In any case, I think a lot of people aren't happy with the admisions process, but the reality of the situation is that its the best process that can logically be used. For example, I always thought it pretty stupid that GPA and MCAT are weighed evenly. I studied for the MCAT over one summer and I got a 34. Meanwhile my GPA reflects months and months and months of schoolwork and literally hundreds of exams. Thousands of hours were spent studying to get my GPA where it is today, and its wieghed the same as one test that I took over the summer when nothing else was going on.

Do you know how many more hours I would of had to spend in undergrad to raise my GPA from a 3.7 to a 4.0? Yet GPA is weighed the same as the MCAT, where getting 4 more questions right would raise your MCAT from a 37 to a 40. I'm sorry, but GPA wieghing the same as MCAT seems to be a pretty silly admissions tendency. (not that I'm complaining, I have a lower GPA and a solid MCAT)

But alas, even with these admissions policy quirks, there is no better alternative. Such is life.


EDIT: LizzyM has a very good point. Not cut out for the MD admission stats but you still really want to help people and go into medicine? Become a Nurse, PA, NP, DO, or similar. Many of these professions are more then happy to accept you into their ranks and you will proably get even more hands on time with the patient then the MDs do.

before i join you in this hearty rendition of kumbaya, i want to point out that it is not often that only 4 questions separate a 37 and a 40. and even if it were, those 4 questions are not random, they are most likely the most difficult questions on the exam.
 
before i join you in this hearty rendition of kumbaya, i want to point out that it is not often that only 4 questions separate a 37 and a 40. and even if it were, those 4 questions are not random, they are most likely the most difficult questions on the exam.

Once you get in the teens of the MCAT section, it does in fact come down to single questions. If you get 1 question wrong you won't get a 15 on that section (unless it was an experimental question).

And on some MCATs where there is a really easy BS section or something, the curve is just brutal because the majority of the test takers get 90% of the questions right, thats when the few hard questions that were in that section end up making a huge differnce, 3 questions may very well equal 3 MCAT points.

And luck plays just a role as skill. If you get to a really hard question you often narrow it down to 2 likely answers. Its a 50/50 chance at this point. This happens to all of us on many MCAT questions. Someone who got lucky might guess right on 3 of these 50/50 chances, now 'lo and behold he has a 36 while the guy next to him who guessed wrong has a 34. This isn't that likely, but it happens I'm sure. Meanwhile the dedication of someone with a 3.6 GPA is very far apart from someone with a 3.4 GPA.
 
Once you get in the teens of the MCAT section, it does in fact come down to single questions. If you get 1 question wrong you won't get a 15 on that section (unless it was an experimental question).

And on some MCATs where there is a really easy BS section or something, the curve is just brutal because the majority of the test takers get 90% of the questions right, thats when the few hard questions that were in that section end up making a huge differnce, 3 questions may very well equal 3 MCAT points.

And luck plays just a role as skill. If you get to a really hard question you often narrow it down to 2 likely answers. Its a 50/50 chance at this point. This happens to all of us on many MCAT questions. Someone who got lucky might guess right on 3 of these 50/50 chances, now 'lo and behold he has a 36 while the guy next to him who guessed wrong has a 34. This isn't that likely, but it happens I'm sure. Meanwhile the dedication of someone with a 3.6 GPA is very far apart from someone with a 3.4 GPA.

First of all, like you said, this isn't likely at all. under your scenario of 3 50/50 guesses, the chance of getting them all right is 1/8. the chance of getting them all wrong is 1/8. thus, the chance that you find a 3 point swing on your score from these 3 questions is 1/64. miniscule. Second, on the boundaries, any difference in score at any range comes down to a single question, whether it's between a 3/4 or a 14/15. that being said, a 37 is say a 12/12/13. A 40 is let's say a 14/13/13. Except the verbal, the difference between a 12 and a 13 is not one question. A difference between a 14 and a 12 can be about 4. Also, you can get questions wrong and still get a 15. Trust me. finally, luck only plays a role only when you don't have enough skill. needing a lucky guess happens to a lot of us, but not all of us.

edit: re:your point on "brutal" curves, if the entire section was that easy (unlikely) with a few hard questions thrown in, then shouldn't it be quite logical that these questions are what separate the wheat from the chaff?
 
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