Why would someone with 3.5+ GPA and 22+ DAT not get in?

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swindoll

swindoll

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I saw multiple posts on this forum today of people having those stats and not getting into dental school. That is insane! What do you guys think is the reason? Interview?

Thanks!
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3.5/23
no idea
interview i guess? I want to know the reason too... lol
 
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That's ridiculous.. But don't give up just yet! I completely understand your frustration though! And it's not like it's because they "don't have enough beds" since they do accept some people with much lower stats. I guess it truly is a random process lol
I'm a junior, so I'll be applying next cycle.

Good luck to you!!!
 
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I went to an interview with a kid who got a 24 DAT, thought for sure he would get in until he started talking. Its more than just the grades, you've got to be able to communicate with people. I would have rather held a conversation with a blind gerbil over this guy. I can only imagine how bad his 1 on 1 interview was.

Edit: make that a deaf gerbil
 
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SM555 said:
I went to an interview with a kid who got a 24 DAT, thought for sure he would get in until he started talking. Its more than just the grades, you've got to be able to communicate with people. I would have rather held a conversation with a blind gerbil over this guy. I can only imagine how bad his 1 on 1 interview was.

Edit: make that a deaf gerbil
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Crap are you talking about me?
 
Over the years, I have also seen that sometimes, schools don't even extend interview invites to people with stats WAY above their averages. The theory is that they know those students aren't going to attend their school, so why even bother? A school that I've seen do this a few times is NYU, along with LECOM. Of course, nothing is certain, but it's awfully weird when some people get accepted to Harvard and don't even hear a peep from NYU. 🙂 I mean, NYU is great... But it ain't Harvard!

There are plenty of people out there with top stats who aren't losers. Let's not assume that they all can't interview well or don't have strong applications in other areas. 🙂 Of course, those people are out there... But you can see from SDN that there are some really cool people with high stats who also have "balanced" social lives!

That being said, even an application that looks "perfect" from the outside doesn't guarantee anything. This process is, in some unfortunate ways, a crapshoot.
 
Glimmer1991 said:
Over the years, I have also seen that sometimes, schools don't even extend interview invites to people with stats WAY above their averages. The theory is that they know those students aren't going to attend their school, so why even bother? A school that I've seen do this a few times is NYU, along with LECOM. Of course, nothing is certain, but it's awfully weird when some people get accepted to Harvard and don't even hear a peep from NYU. 🙂 I mean, NYU is great... But it ain't Harvard!

There are plenty of people out there with top stats who aren't losers. Let's not assume that they all can't interview well or don't have strong applications in other areas. 🙂 Of course, those people are out there... But you can see from SDN that there are some really cool people with high stats who also have "balanced" social lives!

That being said, even an application that looks "perfect" from the outside doesn't guarantee anything. This process is, in some unfortunate ways, a crapshoot.
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Just got rejected from NYU yesterday (no interview) with a 3.86 GPA and 23 DAT 🙁. I really hope you're right!
 
Glimmer1991 said:
But you can see from SDN that there are some really cool people with high stats who also have "balanced" social lives!

That being said, even an application that looks "perfect" from the outside doesn't guarantee anything. This process is, in some unfortunate ways, a crapshoot.
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First statement: Quit tootin' your own horn! lol 😉

Second statement: Some people have a really hard time understanding this. They think is it very linear (with certain stats, you will or will not get in), when in fact it is a crapshoot, like you said.
 
If schools chose applicants based only on stats a school could fill a class with only Asian girls from California with 25+ DATs. Sorrie, but it's true.
 
Ultrafear said:
If schools chose applicants based only on stats a school could fill a class with only Asian girls from California with 25+ DATs. Sorrie, but it's true.
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and thats bad because? you get the most competent dentists..why try to create an artificial balance to this system?
 
Dental schools are under pressure from a lot of forces to make sure that their class is composed a certain way. That may not be a class of 3.8, 24 DAT people. For example, Harvard could easily have their average DAT be 25+ - so why don't they?

What these 'forces' want changes over time. What is in vogue today for dental admissions will probably not be in 10 years.
 
There was a girl at my interview who literally spent the first hour or so sitting there blatantly texting. So some people come to interviews assuming they're in already I guess, maybe that's what kills high GPA/DAT combos.
 
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I have a 3.5 and 23; that's pretty much around the average (just slightly above) for every school I interviewed it. But here I am with six waitlist. I am more inclined to believe that my application was lacking rather than over-excelling. And I am a pretty normal person ( at least I hope...), and I didn't make any fatal mistakes when interacting with other applicants/staff. Really, the only thing that would be questionable for me is my E.C ( but good enough about for them to extend me an invitation) and interviews. And on my interviews I spoke loud and I smiled a lot, so perhaps it was something I said : / I have one more interview coming up so I hope I can figure out my issue before I get waitlisted again lol

The only other thing I can think of that made me stand out from the crowd is that I look a lot younger than most applicants and am on the shorter end too. Maybe they didn't think LOOK mature enough. I can easily past off as 16 (am Asian)
 
cacajuate said:
Academic scores =/= most competent dentist

Dentistry is about hand skills/communication, not how well you can memorize scientific facts.
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then do away with the whole standardize test that was supposed to objectively measure aptitude to begin with and replace it with a communications/ hands skills test. the point is, the test was supposed to distinguish applicants and yet they don't consider it much
 
stressedapplicant said:
then do away with the whole standardize test that was supposed to objectively measure aptitude to begin with and replace it with a communications/ hands skills test. the point is, the test was supposed to distinguish applicants and yet they don't consider it much
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You go tell someone with a 16 DAT that they don't consider it much
 
well I'm telling you from a 23 sitting on 0/12 acceptances, they don't consider it much.
 
stressedapplicant said:
then do away with the whole standardize test that was supposed to objectively measure aptitude to begin with and replace it with a communications/ hands skills test. the point is, the test was supposed to distinguish applicants and yet they don't consider it much
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You need to have both the book smarts AND the communication skills AND the manual dexterity. The test and your grades only demonstrates part of what they're looking for.
 
Mad Jack said:
You need to have both the book smarts AND the communication skills AND the manual dexterity. The test and your grades only demonstrates part of what they're looking for.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, you can't really know about the manual dexterity part until you're in dental school... It's more than that, though. It's also about being able to visualize things. You'll understand when you start waxing. 😛
 
Mad Jack said:
You need to have both the book smarts AND the communication skills AND the manual dexterity. The test and your grades only demonstrates part of what they're looking for.
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ahh this is so nerve-racking!
 
cacajuate said:
+pity+
You're learning that one measure of a whole application doesn't get you an acceptance.
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I may be preaching to the choir at this point but I believe my application was not lacking in the other categories such as manual dexterity, or EC's. I may not be a social butterfly but I also wouldn't consider myself worse than a "deaf gerbil". People here are so quick to blame the applicant's "shortcomings" for decisions or lack thereof made by the admissions committee (i.e. those with 3.5/22+ who didn't get interviews must have been socially ******ed or fundamentally lacking something) .
 
I'm guessing it's their personality as well as their lack of being well-rounded.
 
I got accepted to Marquette with a 3.3 GPA and 19 DAT, so from my experience, I definitely believe the interview process and the applicant's intangibles play a huge role. Also, my undergrad major is Biocomputer Engineering and I do think that played a part in them overlooking my somewhat low GPA.
 
stressedapplicant said:
I may be preaching to the choir at this point but I believe my application was not lacking in the other categories such as manual dexterity, or EC's. I may not be a social butterfly but I also wouldn't consider myself worse than a "deaf gerbil". People here are so quick to blame the applicant's "shortcomings" for decisions or lack thereof made by the admissions committee (i.e. those with 3.5/22+ who didn't get interviews must have been socially ******ed or fundamentally lacking something) .
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The whole process is subjective, and my guess is that is what you are hinting at? With that said, while you/anyone might think they are well-rounded and not lacking anywhere, unfortunately someone on your admissions committee might disagree and thus you don't get an interview or an acceptance. An quite frankly, your perception of your application doesn't matter and won't get you in to dental school. If someone with a lower gpa/dat than you is getting interviews and acceptances, there is likely something better about them and their application/experiences. We have no idea what other people's application is comprised of. ****, someone might have lower stats but have ONE thing on their app that connects with the person reviewing it and that grants them an interview and subsequent acceptance. The whole process is subjective, and I suppose the DAT is just a portion of it that they try and make objective. BUT that doesn't mean its the most important aspect of an application, nor that they will be the most "competent dentist" (honestly couldn't really believe you said that..). Regardless, I feel for you and your frustration (went through it last year), so best of luck!
 
Glimmer1991 said:
Over the years, I have also seen that sometimes, schools don't even extend interview invites to people with stats WAY above their averages. The theory is that they know those students aren't going to attend their school, so why even bother? A school that I've seen do this a few times is NYU, along with LECOM. Of course, nothing is certain, but it's awfully weird when some people get accepted to Harvard and don't even hear a peep from NYU. 🙂 I mean, NYU is great... But it ain't Harvard!
Click to expand...

Every year, just like an annual weed, this topic makes it's appearance. Since 3.5 is the national mean, it would quite a stretch of the imagination to consider it a "high" gpa. By the "theory" you suggest exists, it would rare to see dental school enrollees with "high" scores. The 2014 statistical evidence suggests otherwise. There is one school with upper range of 3.8, five with 3.9, and the remaining reported a range of 4.0 to 4.3. On the DAT side, there is only one with an upper range of 19, one with 21, three with 22, and the balance with scores of 23 to 29. Moreover, statistical evidence provided by the ADA suggests that there is a considerable number of applicants that do not gain acceptance for reasons we are free to speculate. A similar situation is noted by the AMA: 8.4 % of the applicants with gpa of 3.8-4.0 and MCAT scores of 39-45 do not gain acceptance to medical schools.
Contrary to popular belief, ds admission is not a "crapshoot". It is a very well choreographed performance; each class is carved with surgical precision and pretty much, represents what schools had in mind.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/rejections-the-why.875430/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2014-range-of-gpa-dat-cut-off-scores.1074256/
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/
 
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I got outright rejected from UPENN and UCSF (no interviews) and 3 interviews (only went to 1) with a 3.62 GPA and 24 AA.



Basically I've learned that this entire application process is drawn out of a hat.
 
I think people on these forums forget about the importance of personal statements, letters of recommendation, and extracurricular activities.
GPA and test scores are just numbers, and everyone has them. The rest of your application is what makes you unique.
 
I will tell you why --> Because GPA and DAT scores are not the only thing schools look at when choosing applicants. There are other factors called extracurricular activities, volunteering, personal statements, major and personality, to name a few.
If you get an interview invite, you will have the same chances as other candidates that were invited ( it doesn't matter your GPA and/or DAT). What they see in you, and your answers during the interview will determine if you get in.
 
Glimmer1991 said:
Over the years, I have also seen that sometimes, schools don't even extend interview invites to people with stats WAY above their averages. The theory is that they know those students aren't going to attend their school, so why even bother? A school that I've seen do this a few times is NYU, along with LECOM. Of course, nothing is certain, but it's awfully weird when some people get accepted to Harvard and don't even hear a peep from NYU. 🙂 I mean, NYU is great... But it ain't Harvard!

There are plenty of people out there with top stats who aren't losers. Let's not assume that they all can't interview well or don't have strong applications in other areas. 🙂 Of course, those people are out there... But you can see from SDN that there are some really cool people with high stats who also have "balanced" social lives!

That being said, even an application that looks "perfect" from the outside doesn't guarantee anything. This process is, in some unfortunate ways, a crapshoot.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. However Harvard Dental is not close to being the same as Harvard Undergrad. I wouldn't want to attend Harvard dental if I got in, and if I had a free ride there. I owuld want to be exposed to more clinical experiences. I think Harvard is overrated. At least for Dental school
Cheers
 
Since Dec 1st it has been a parade of rejection. Not a single acceptance. I am 3.6/23, with a lot of dental work experience, some lab and teaching experienc. I use both hands so that covers manual dexterity.
I am not that extrovert but not introvert either. I am seriously thinking that my personality and interview skill is just wrong.. or may be my appearance( I look extremely young) but I don't know how to fix this... Staying positive can be very challenging sometimes.
 
AlvaDentistry said:
I will tell you why --> Because GPA and DAT scores are not the only thing schools look at when choosing applicants. There are other factors called extracurricular activities, volunteering, personal statements, major and personality, to name a few.
If you get an interview invite, you will have the same chances as other candidates that were invited ( it doesn't matter your GPA and/or DAT). What they see in you, and your answers during the interview will determine if you get in.
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Yup, this is exactly what I JUST heard LOL! I just got back from volunteering, and the dental student that I assisted today said that the interview could easily be the most important factor. She also said that they look for maturity and ability to think on the spot.
 
AlvaDentistry said:
I will tell you why --> Because GPA and DAT scores are not the only thing schools look at when choosing applicants. There are other factors called extracurricular activities, volunteering, personal statements, major and personality, to name a few.
If you get an interview invite, you will have the same chances as other candidates that were invited ( it doesn't matter your GPA and/or DAT). What they see in you, and your answers during the interview will determine if you get in.
Click to expand...
Spot on imo. I think once you get an interview, you're weighed about equally with other candidates until you give your answers to their questions. The only way to get an edge over the other candidates is to sell yourself to the interviewers. Be yourself and let them know who you are, verbally. They know that you can write well otherwise you wouldn't have made it this far, but can you communicate who you are in your application to someone face-to-face? Ultimately, they want someone who is human and not someone who is awkward.
 
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distressstudent said:
I have a 3.5 and 23; that's pretty much around the average (just slightly above) for every school I interviewed it. But here I am with six waitlist. I am more inclined to believe that my application was lacking rather than over-excelling. And I am a pretty normal person ( at least I hope...), and I didn't make any fatal mistakes when interacting with other applicants/staff. Really, the only thing that would be questionable for me is my E.C ( but good enough about for them to extend me an invitation) and interviews. And on my interviews I spoke loud and I smiled a lot, so perhaps it was something I said : / I have one more interview coming up so I hope I can figure out my issue before I get waitlisted again lol

The only other thing I can think of that made me stand out from the crowd is that I look a lot younger than most applicants and am on the shorter end too. Maybe they didn't think LOOK mature enough. I can easily past off as 16 (am Asian)
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Do you think that may be a factor in some decision? I'm 20 but I look really young due to my size/stature. I can past as a 16 year old to. I hope they don't do that.
 
They prolly picked their nose during the interview.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
starlight1992 said:
I connect with this thread on a spiritual level, 3.7 GPA and 27 DAT and did not get an offer from one of my state schools.... I'm not socially inept either, I have no idea what the problem is.
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well if you can't get in with those scores, I'm calling quits
 
dentalstudentprospect2 said:
Crap are you talking about me?
Click to expand...


Naw he's talking about me 😉

distressstudent said:
3.5/23
no idea
interview i guess? I want to know the reason too... lol
Click to expand...

Take it easy dude. You will easily get in with those stats. I think December is still early in the cycle. You had mentioned you had six waitlists....keep in mind the students who got in yesterday will have 30 something days to choose which school they want to choose. Once those students have chosen I guarantee that you will easily get into your top choice(s). If you feel you did good at the interview (which I am sure you did), then you feel be fine. Hang in there! 👍👍👍👍👍
 
starlight1992 said:
I connect with this thread on a spiritual level, 3.7 GPA and 27 DAT and did not get an offer from one of my state schools.... I'm not socially inept either, I have no idea what the problem is.
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That's why I wholeheartedly agree with Glimmer91 that "the myth" of being overqualified isn't really a myth.. (Just like for employment!) Why would a state school accept someone who they know will not attend their school because they'll have a myriad of BETTER choices to pick from..

..+quotas..Enough said! 😉

Say what you want, but this is the (sad) reality!


grivacobae said:
well if you can't get in with those scores, I'm calling quits
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LOL! I know, right?
 
ATLien4evr said:
Do you think that may be a factor in some decision? I'm 20 but I look really young due to my size/stature. I can past as a 16 year old to. I hope they don't do that.
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I don't know how big of a factor that can be, if any. At most, it'd just negatively affect my interview points (whereas my other stuff should have still been considered). At this point, I am just theory-crafting anything I can possibly think of to explain my atrocious interview run (going through the five stages of grief...) . My honest opinion is that I don't think looking young is the sole factor I got denied and its not something you should worry about.
 
Well I did get into my other state school so it's okay and I guess I shouldn't complain. But it's not like I even applied to Harvard or Columbia or anything, it was just my two state schools and that was it. And I'm pretty sure they knew that... Oh well
 
predental75 said:
Why did you only go to 1 of the 3 interviews? That's not leaving your name in many hats...
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I did it because the other two schools (NYU + USC) were too expensive and I don't want to sound egoistic but those were my fallbacks mainly due to cost and location. Withdrew from USC previously and will be doing so for NYU.

Still waiting on a few other top choices. I had the wrong hats:annoyed:
 
I would beg to differ with people's hypothesis that once you're in the interview everyone has the same odds or is on the same footing.

It is my true belief that students with exceptional scores will not have to shine as brightly on interview day as students with average or below average scores. As your application is reviewed as a whole, higher scores will bring up a less than stellar interview (assuming no personality flaws/other issues arise) in terms of the entirety of your application. Furthermore, I believe that applicants with higher scores will have to sell themselves less in terms of academic competency, but be more aggressive asserting their desire to attend the dental school due to what it uniquely offers. (I know for a fact that UConn runs an equation where your DAT, GPA, and everything else are calculated and those below number x are not offered. This means dat and gpa help you every step of the way.)

Lastly, with regards to Tuft's syndrome claims, I believe it is far more prevalent to OOS schools than in state schools even if you have much higher scores than your in state average. This in my opinion is due to the much higher acceptance yield in state schools achieve per offer extended to in state applicants.

For those not accepted with stellar stats, I encourage you to have a mock interview through either your school's facilities or friends and maybe you are coming across in a way you are not aware of.
 
CHEtoDentist said:
I would beg to differ with people's hypothesis that once you're in the interview everyone has the same odds or is on the same footing.

It is my true belief that students with exceptional scores will not have to shine as brightly on interview day as students with average or below average scores. As your application is reviewed as a whole, higher scores will bring up a less than stellar interview (assuming no personality flaws/other issues arise) in terms of the entirety of your application. Furthermore, I believe that applicants with higher scores will have to sell themselves less in terms of academic competency, but be more aggressive asserting their desire to attend the dental school due to what it uniquely offers.
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This is so true. But then again, someone with higher scores might be expected to have a better persona than the normal guys in the pack. And the people with scores that aren't crazy good have opportunities to explain but if you go in there confident with a 19 as someone with a 22 I see no reason for you not to be taken in.

No applicant is the same in person, but we can be very similar on paper.
 
The tone of interviews are definitely different based on the caliber of scores. My friend noticed her interviewers were much more warm and friendly and complemented her on her 20AA and 3.65 GPA. Meanwhile the same interviewers made no mention of my 25AA or 3.85. My interviews seemed very interrogation like, probably probing if I was actually considering attending the school. This is just my observation however.

Dental schools know that you know you have good stats. So they see no need in boosting an ego.
 
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