WI, MN, IL programs

[McPoyle]

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Hey all, hoping to get a lil guidance. I am a third year, starting to consider plans for next year. I was wondering if anyone had insight into IM programs in MN, WI, or IL. My wife and I have family in MN and WI and would really like to stay close. I've looked on ERAS at the programs in these two states, but really don't know the difference between the programs at U f Minnesota or U of Wisconsin and other community programs such as Abbott Northwestern, or Aurora.

Right now, my goal is to stay close to family for residency, but also make myself appealing when it comes time for fellowship applications, ideally in Heme/Onc.

I guess my question is, are specific things I should consider when looking at these programs? Should I restrict myself to big university programs or would a program like Abbott be sufficient when applying for fellowships? Or, is there anything I am overlooking, as I am just starting this process?

Thanks

Edit: About me, I am middle of my class at a US MD school in the midwest. Just took Step 1 and am asking this under the assumption my scores are average, probably no higher than a 230. I also have done research in undergrad and med school (basic science, molecular work, both times specific to heme/onc), though unpublished.

 

[jdh71]

Hey all, hoping to get a lil guidance. I am a third year, starting to consider plans for next year. I was wondering if anyone had insight into IM programs in MN, WI, or IL. My wife and I have family in MN and WI and would really like to stay close. I've looked on ERAS at the programs in these two states, but really don't know the difference between the programs at U f Minnesota or U of Wisconsin and other community programs such as Abbott Northwestern, or Aurora.

Right now, my goal is to stay close to family for residency, but also make myself appealing when it comes time for fellowship applications, ideally in Heme/Onc.

I guess my question is, are specific things I should consider when looking at these programs? Should I restrict myself to big university programs or would a program like Abbott be sufficient when applying for fellowships? Or, is there anything I am overlooking, as I am just starting this process?

Thanks

Edit: About me, I am middle of my class at a US MD school in the midwest. Just took Step 1 and am asking this under the assumption my scores are average, probably no higher than a 230. I also have done research in undergrad and med school (basic science, molecular work, both times specific to heme/onc), though unpublished.

Well, trying to find a heme/onc match is much tougher coming out of a community program, not impossible at all, just harder. Both U of Wisconsin and U of Minnesota offer arguably a top 30 IM program experience with great in-house Heme/Onc fellowships as well as great heme/onc matches outside of their institutions. I think you likely get interviews at both, given your geographical interests (they don't like interviewing people who will not rank them highly because of location), as long as you don't screw the pooch on step I. I'm not as familiar with MCoW, but you should be able to get an interview there and there is simply no reason not to check them out.

In Illinois your big options UofChicago, NWern, Rush, Loyola, and UIC - both UofChicago and NWern can be tough to get into, and as I understand it NWern has the better heme/onc (which could be wrong), but you should still send them an application. Rush, Loyola, and UIC all are solid middle tier IM programs, all with in house heme-onc, and heme-onc matches outside of their institutions.

UofIowa is not too far away either, with another arguably tope 30 IM experience, with good heme/onc in house as well as good matches outside.

 

[McPoyle]

Well, trying to find a heme/onc match is much tougher coming out of a community program, not impossible at all, just harder. Both U of Wisconsin and U of Minnesota offer arguably a top 30 IM program experience with great in-house Heme/Onc fellowships as well as great heme/onc matches outside of their institutions. I'm not as familiar with MCoW, but you should be able to get an interview there and there is simply no reason not to check them out.

In Illinois your big options UofChicago, NWern, Rush, Loyola, and UIC - both UofChicago and NWern can be tough to get into, and as I understand it NWern has the better heme/onc (which could be wrong), but you should still send them an application. Rush, Loyola, and UIC all are solid middle tier IM programs, all with in house heme-onc, and heme-onc matches outside of their institutions.

Cool, thanks a bunch for your response.

So, ideally I would apply to all and hope for a more academic institution and preferably land at one with a desirable in house heme/onc program. Along these lines, when it comes time to apply to any fellowship, do most applicants end up staying in house, or is it much like applying to school and residency where it will likely involve another move?

 

[chitown82]

Hey all, hoping to get a lil guidance. I am a third year, starting to consider plans for next year. I was wondering if anyone had insight into IM programs in MN, WI, or IL. My wife and I have family in MN and WI and would really like to stay close. I've looked on ERAS at the programs in these two states, but really don't know the difference between the programs at U f Minnesota or U of Wisconsin and other community programs such as Abbott Northwestern, or Aurora.

Right now, my goal is to stay close to family for residency, but also make myself appealing when it comes time for fellowship applications, ideally in Heme/Onc.

I guess my question is, are specific things I should consider when looking at these programs? Should I restrict myself to big university programs or would a program like Abbott be sufficient when applying for fellowships? Or, is there anything I am overlooking, as I am just starting this process?

Thanks

Edit: About me, I am middle of my class at a US MD school in the midwest. Just took Step 1 and am asking this under the assumption my scores are average, probably no higher than a 230. I also have done research in undergrad and med school (basic science, molecular work, both times specific to heme/onc), though unpublished.

If you are committed to Heme/Onc, make sure you apply (and communicate this) to U of C. Best program in the city for Heme/Onc and arguably for IM. Residents get their #1 choice routinely - in the past half a dozen years, I think only one has not matched at their top choice.

 

[McPoyle]

If you are committed to Heme/Onc, make sure you apply (and communicate this) to U of C. Best program in the city for Heme/Onc and arguably for IM. Residents get their #1 choice routinely - in the past half a dozen years, I think only one has not matched at their top choice.

Now, I ask this out of ignorance, but wouldn't such a program be a stretch for a run of the mill applicant such as myself?

If I am highly interested in a program, how helpful is it to do an away rotation at that site?

 

[jdh71]

C Along these lines, when it comes time to apply to any fellowship, do most applicants end up staying in house, or is it much like applying to school and residency where it will likely involve another move?

Generally speaking, it usually easiest to stay at your home institution, unless your home institution is one of the tippy-top programs and then as a tippy-top program they skim the cream from everywhere, but for the most part if you want to stay at your home program AND you have the application to find a match somewhere, you'll match at home. Fellowship is a tricky thing in some ways, especially if you want to do certain things, see certain things, or be involved in certain research, which are often the reasons a person decides to leave their own program for one outside. I'm personally interested in bench research and mentorship to a physician scientist type of role, which would as a necessity include an extra year on a training grant with an application for a "K" award - this isn't something that would have been possible if I would have stayed at my home fellowship program which is a pretty damn fine fellowship program otherwise in my mind. You've got time to figure it out.

 

[gold&black2005]

Can't forget the Mayo.

 

[jdh71]

Can't forget the Mayo.

And I did.

It is the world famous . . .

 

[DrVanNostran]

OP I'm from the midwest as well and will be applying for IM this cycle with an interest in Heme-Onc. My loyalties lie with the Bears, and I hate the packers and viking alike. Anyways, besides the mentioned programs above. If you need to add community programs, check out:

Lutheran General Hospital-Park Ridge, IL. Pretty impressive fellowship match, with an in-house Heme-Onc Program.

University of Chicago North-Shore. This is not UofC, but they are a community program affiliated with them. Unfortunately, they do not have in house fellowship program. But check out their match list.

http://www.northshore.org/academics...nal-medicine/your-career/fellowship-matching/

 

[witchbaby]

Eric, I think jdh71 has given you good advice. At least for the MN programs, Abbott is a great community program and their residents get into fellowship at the U of M regularly. However, I think Heme/Onc fellowship is getting increasingly competitive and you will want some research during residency on your application, which probably means it makes sense to go to a program that has strong Heme/Onc clinical and research opportunities. Abbott has the heart institute and I know GI fellows have matched to the U from there, but I don't know what sort of research opportunities you might find in house for Heme/Onc. Could you arrange research somewhere else while doing residency at a community program? Probably. Will it be harder? Definitely. Should you still interview there and check it out, asking the above questions? Sure, apply and rank programs broadly in your goal geographic area.

I don't know for sure about Abbott, or HCMC in MN, but I would guess that most of the research is taking place at the U, and I do know the U has a strong BMT program. Also, none of the programs in MN are malignant, so while the hours and moonlighting opportunities are probably nicer at some community programs, you're not going to be abused at the U. And as an average American Med school grad, don't worry too much about where you 'can' get in. IM still isn't that competitive, and if you interview well and make your geographic needs clear, you should be able to get in at one of your top choices.

 

[McPoyle]

Eric, I think jdh71 has given you good advice. At least for the MN programs, Abbott is a great community program and their residents get into fellowship at the U of M regularly. However, I think Heme/Onc fellowship is getting increasingly competitive and you will want some research during residency on your application, which probably means it makes sense to go to a program that has strong Heme/Onc clinical and research opportunities. Abbott has the heart institute and I know GI fellows have matched to the U from there, but I don't know what sort of research opportunities you might find in house for Heme/Onc. Could you arrange research somewhere else while doing residency at a community program? Probably. Will it be harder? Definitely. Should you still interview there and check it out, asking the above questions? Sure, apply and rank programs broadly in your goal geographic area.

I don't know for sure about Abbott, or HCMC in MN, but I would guess that most of the research is taking place at the U, and I do know the U has a strong BMT program. Also, none of the programs in MN are malignant, so while the hours and moonlighting opportunities are probably nicer at some community programs, you're not going to be abused at the U. And as an average American Med school grad, don't worry too much about where you 'can' get in. IM still isn't that competitive, and if you interview well and make your geographic needs clear, you should be able to get in at one of your top choices.

Awesome, thanks for the insight!

How common is it for a resident to do research at another institution? The reason I am asking is it seems odd to be paid by place x to do research at place y. Or, are you suggesting doing a dedicated research year during residency?

Thanks again.

 

[witchbaby]

I don't think it's common to do research elsewhere during residency, so I'm saying since you probably want research for your fellowship application, you should probably rank programs with several good research opportunities for you higher than those with few or no research opportunities. While you probably could do research at a university hospital from a community residency, it's going to be harder to set up and do, and residency is definitely about making life as simple and easy as possible.

Still, the more interviews you do, the more information you get at each one of them, and you want to start your interview trail at places that aren't your top choice. So apply broadly, try to schedule interviews in the same city for one or two trips, see what all your options are, and then make your rank list. Remember, a community program in a city you want to be in is still a much, much better option than a scramble, any way you look at it. It probably won't come to that if you're a decent student and interview well, but still.

 

[chitown82]

Now, I ask this out of ignorance, but wouldn't such a program be a stretch for a run of the mill applicant such as myself?

If I am highly interested in a program, how helpful is it to do an away rotation at that site?

I am not a big fan of away rotations as:
1. You have to spend a lot of time "learning the system"
2. You never quite feel in place
3. They are of questionable worth. I've known people who've done aways at various programs only to not get an interview or match.