Wife cried last night...

[Dbate]

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She IS supportive of me chasing my dreams. She is also having a hard time coming to terms with the loans. Well to be honest, I wouldn't mind pursuing the military education loan idea. Chance to serve and get my degree. However, the thought of deployment would be worse to my wife than loans ( I'm assuming that's how it would work)

I don't think the chance for deployment would be worse. The military offers a stipend for all four years AND completely alleviates the financial burden of medicine.

Deployment is not in anyway guaranteed, and your obligation is often met at a base in the United States. Since you only have to commit to the military 4 years max, the spector of deployment shouldn't be used as an excuse to avoid the only sensible option in this case.

Go look up the statistics on the actual number of people who are deployed while taking the scholarship. It is very small.

Go the military route! You will read threads about the negatives, but most of that only really applies to students right out of college. In your situation, the military scholarship is a godsend.

And if you have children, then there is no other responsible route then the military.

Does you wife know this military scholarship is even an option? Tell her about it and I guarantee she will be on board.

 

[GasDreams]

I don't think the chance for deployment would be worse. The military offers a stipend for all four years AND completely alleviates the financial burden of medicine.

Deployment is not in anyway guaranteed, and your obligation is often met at a base in the United States. Since you only have to commit to the military 4 years max, the spector of deployment shouldn't be used as an excuse to avoid the only sensible option in this case.

Go look up the statistics on the actual number of people who are deployed while taking the scholarship. It is very small.

Go the military route! You will read threads about the negatives, but most of that only really applies to students right out of college. In your situation, the military scholarship is a godsend.

And if you have children, then there is no other responsible route then the military.

Does you wife know this military scholarship is even an option? Tell her about it and I guarantee she will be on board.

We don't have children but I know we cannot wait until I'm done with residency to start that. I'm going to look into this a little more and see what I can come up with. Thanks guys

 

[AdamAustin]

She's feeling very insecure,and it's only you who can make her realise that education never goes waste ,and it's for the betterment of your future..Try and pacify her again..maybe she'll understand..

 

[Dbate]

She's feeling very insecure,and it's only you who can make her realise that education never goes waste ,and it's for the betterment of your future..Try and pacify her again..maybe she'll understand..

This is unequivocally false. Opportunity cost should be grounded in every decision a person makes, especially a decision of this financial magnitude.

 

[deleted307836]

The consensus with the military seems to be "don't do it unless you really want to do military medicine" and that it's not worth it for the money alone. Check out the military medicine forum. Also, I believe the military pays significantly less than private practice for some specialties during the service repayment period which would make it comparable to just paying off loans without the inflexibility of the military.

 

[BeachBlondie]

OP,

Everyone here seems to have given you food-for-thought regarding how best to comfort your wife during this time; how best to assure her. You have quite a bit of support 🙂

Because they have it covered, I just wanted to reach out to you regarding your timeline...

There are no MCAT administration dates in November or December.... or October.... The final exam date falls somewhere around mid September. PLEASE make sure you hard-code this into your mind so that you don't accidentally miss it 🙂

Be well!

 

[GasDreams]

OP,

Everyone here seems to have given you food-for-thought regarding how best to comfort your wife during this time; how best to assure her. You have quite a bit of support 🙂

Because they have it covered, I just wanted to reach out to you regarding your timeline...

There are no MCAT administration dates in November or December.... or October.... The final exam date falls somewhere around mid September. PLEASE make sure you hard-code this into your mind so that you don't accidentally miss it 🙂

Be well!

You're absolutely right about the support. I'm surprised this many people have chimed in. Suppose this isn't that uncommon.

And about the mcat, I just realized that a few days ago when I was trying to figure out when the earliest I could register would be. I have a feeling 2014 dates will fill up quickly with others trying to beat the 2015 mcat. Ill finish all prereq's in August and unfortunately It appears ill only have a month and a half to study full time. I'm really leaning against that though. I think I saw where the actual LAST day it would be administered was in January 2015. If so I would MUCH rather wait until then, anybody hear anything similar?

 

[malaika]

Of course she cried. You broke the news that instead of taking the practical route of advanced practice nursing you'd rather go through an incredibly stressful, poverty-stricken road which will be entirely focused on your ultimate success. And she's going to pay for it with her NP salary.

Go do what you need to do, but keep the above in mind.

Yup! and try not to leave her after you become a doctor. After she has sacrificed everything to see you fulfill your goals.

I've seen this happen. The loser's wife suddenly wasn't good enough the minute he finished residency 🙄 There's a special place in hell for that kind of people

 

[NontradCA]

I think you're getting some very emotional advice here that you should take with a grain of salt. Poverty of medical school? Get real. Medical students are very privileged, don't let anyone else fool you. The best you can do is educate both you and your wife on the process and proceed from there. I can't stress this enough - be realistic. It's good to have goals, not pipedreams.

 

[ChE04]

I think you're getting some very emotional advice here that you should take with a grain of salt. Poverty of medical school? Get real. Medical students are very privileged, don't let anyone else fool you. The best you can do is educate both you and your wife on the process and proceed from there. I can't stress this enough - be realistic. It's good to have goals, not pipedreams.

I'm not sure you've researched this process enough...

 

[proclus]

I feel bad for the OP's wife.

I feel bad for the OP.

 

[NontradCA]

I'm not sure you've researched this process enough...

I don't think you or anyone else who thinks that same way you do has any idea of what poverty is and needs to wake up. Taking out a huge loan for a doctorate level education which has the highest payout is nowhere near being impoverished. Guess being in med school doesn't relinquish one of ignorance.

 

[ChE04]

I don't think you or anyone else who thinks that same way you do has any idea of what poverty is and needs to wake up. Taking out a huge loan for a doctorate level education which has the highest payout is nowhere near being impoverished. Guess being in med school doesn't relinquish one of ignorance.

Ok well I guess you'll be just fine then. Good luck.

 

[HoboCommander]

She IS supportive of me chasing my dreams. She is also having a hard time coming to terms with the loans. Well to be honest, I wouldn't mind pursuing the military education loan idea. Chance to serve and get my degree. However, the thought of deployment would be worse to my wife than loans ( I'm assuming that's how it would work)

Does it work out in terms of money, chasing being a doctor versus advanced nurse practitioner? Is it the best decision in terms of providing for your family, or is it just to chase after a personal dream? From what I see, the math does not seem to favor going into medicine.

I expect most on this forum to value career over family, but there is a minority here who believes sometimes you have to sacrifice personal ambition for family. You really need to decide for yourself. I have to make a very similar decision right now, whether to go into surgery or anesthiology.

 

[GasDreams]

Does it work out in terms of money, chasing being a doctor versus advanced nurse practitioner? Is it the best decision in terms of providing for your family, or is it just to chase after a personal dream? From what I see, the math does not seem to favor going into medicine.

I expect most on this forum to value career over family, but there is a minority here who believes sometimes you have to sacrifice personal ambition for family. You really need to decide for yourself. I have to make a very similar decision right now, whether to go into surgery or anesthiology.

Honestly, it will probably take 10-15 years after residency (considering student loans/loss of income) for it to come out in the wash. Unless I specialize of course.

And good luck with your decision, I really hate it for you 😉

 

[beBrave]

I expect most on this forum to value career over family, but there is a minority here who believes sometimes you have to sacrifice personal ambition for family.

I've been on both ends. Putting another's expectations in front of your own leads down a long dark path of regret. I feel bad for anyone who has to carry the weight of living within someone else's expectations.

 

[silleme]

I know I'm late to this, but have you looked into UMMC? Only MS residents can apply, the tuition is dirt-cheap, and the scores are not hard to manage for those already seeking this path. Since it appears your wife also wants to stay close to home, this will give her 4 more years of a short car-drive to see family. Just a thought, as this is actually the path I'm pursuing.

My s/o has to be near Jackson for family reasons, so I'm completing my undergrad and applying there to stay close. It may not be as prestigious a school, but they still have honors and rotations, and it's not the end of the world when your name still has MD at the end.

 

[ReInventor]

Bro she can't see past the end of her nose. I realized this a while back and have tried to point this out. Still working on it...

If this is how you talk about your wife, I fear for the future of your marriage. You need to try to take her perspective a little bit more--is she aware of the fact that she is expected to pay for your education? 😕

 

[deleted480308]

Bro she can't see past the end of her nose. I realized this a while back and have tried to point this out. Still working on it...

It would be worth remembering that she married a guy with/working-on an associates RN degree. Now you spring doctor on her. You changed the deal. She married a certain situation and you are switching it up. She doesn't owe you free reign to put her family through something like this, you owe her an explanation that she buys into (not just one that you think is logical). Don't have kids till you settle this

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

My favorite part is how the OP belittles the NP field ("nurses playing doctor") but expects his wife to work as a NP in order to pay for him to go to medical school. Poor lady.

 

[GUH]

She IS supportive of me chasing my dreams. She is also having a hard time coming to terms with the loans. Well to be honest, I wouldn't mind pursuing the military education loan idea. Chance to serve and get my degree. However, the thought of deployment would be worse to my wife than loans ( I'm assuming that's how it would work)

Going into the military because your wife can't grasp the numbers is a bad idea.

 

[beBrave]

To be fair, OP has a lot on his plate.

 

[GasDreams]

My favorite part is how the OP belittles the NP field ("nurses playing doctor") but expects his wife to work as a NP in order to pay for him to go to medical school. Poor lady.

I'm taking out loans to pay for my education, she's pursuing NP because she feels her potential is wasted as a bedside nurse. Her Salary will support us( quite nicely IMO) while I'm not working in med school.

We dated for 6 years before we got married, she knew I was pursuing advanced practitioner education whether that be in nursing or medicine.

My biggest regret was listening to the 15 or so practicing physicians who told me if there was anything I could ever see myself doing instead of medicine to do that. I've wasted a lot of time.

 

[GasDreams]

I know I'm late to this, but have you looked into UMMC? Only MS residents can apply, the tuition is dirt-cheap, and the scores are not hard to manage for those already seeking this path. Since it appears your wife also wants to stay close to home, this will give her 4 more years of a short car-drive to see family. Just a thought, as this is actually the path I'm pursuing.

My s/o has to be near Jackson for family reasons, so I'm completing my undergrad and applying there to stay close. It may not be as prestigious a school, but they still have honors and rotations, and it's not the end of the world when your name still has MD at the end.

Prestige means nothing to me in potential schools. Unfortunately, I will be heavily utilizing aacomas grade replacement so MD schools are not in my favor 🙁

 

[silleme]

Prestige means nothing to me in potential schools. Unfortunately, I will be heavily utilizing aacomas grade replacement so MD schools are not in my favor 🙁

As long as your overall GPA is 3.0 and you get at least a 23-24 on your MCAT, you'll likely score an interview. I've seen stats of those accepted with lower GPAs, but I'm guessing it's with an extraordinary story...which you might have. It never hurts to try applying....especially at your home state school.

 

[tartesos]

I know I'm late to this, but have you looked into UMMC? Only MS residents can apply, the tuition is dirt-cheap, and the scores are not hard to manage for those already seeking this path. Since it appears your wife also wants to stay close to home, this will give her 4 more years of a short car-drive to see family. Just a thought, as this is actually the path I'm pursuing.

My s/o has to be near Jackson for family reasons, so I'm completing my undergrad and applying there to stay close. It may not be as prestigious a school, but they still have honors and rotations, and it's not the end of the world when your name still has MD at the end.

It is a very good school with a strong clinical experience and reputation is good as well.
Home of Arthur guyton(physiology) that we all know so well.

 

[wannabeadoc2]

DO NOT go the military route if your wife is not 100% behind moving your family to some remote place overseas for years at a time. Also, plan for them (your fam.) to be left alone in these locations periodically for months while you deploy. Another thing to take into consideration is your wife's ability to find a job. Please do not go into military medicine for the wrong reasons. It is a recipe for disaster on all fronts, the patients you serve, your wife's happiness as well as your own. If you have any questions about the military life, feel free to PM me. I will be hitting the 12 year mark (not as a doc) in Dec. and would be happy to answer any questions I can.

 

[StephanieZ]

Sounds like my mom. It doesn't matter how many times I reason with her about loans and future salaries and what have you, she hears six-digit figures and goes pale. That sort of money just isn't even on the map to her. I don't really need her blessing in the same way you need the support of your wife, however.

You may have to decide for yourself which is more important: your marriage or your dreams of medical school. Not saying you can't have both, but if push comes to shove down the road, it's helpful if you already know which you'd pick.

 

[GasDreams]

DO NOT go the military route if your wife is not 100% behind moving your family to some remote place overseas for years at a time. Also, plan for them (your fam.) to be left alone in these locations periodically for months while you deploy. Another thing to take into consideration is your wife's ability to find a job. Please do not go into military medicine for the wrong reasons. It is a recipe for disaster on all fronts, the patients you serve, your wife's happiness as well as your own. If you have any questions about the military life, feel free to PM me. I will be hitting the 12 year mark (not as a doc) in Dec. and would be happy to answer any questions I can.

Thanks and I will

 

[theBruceWayne]

First of all, if things get bad remember that medschool is not even half as important as your marriage. Second, try pushing that six figure salary, and def keep showing her the pros of your dream. But most of all you need to understand and spend time with your wife. Doctors can help fix many things, but a broken marriage is a whole different level.

 

[Jewels86]

My biggest regret was listening to the 15 or so practicing physicians who told me if there was anything I could ever see myself doing instead of medicine to do that. I've wasted a lot of time.

I've heard something along these lines as well ("You'd be crazy to go into medicine; I wish I bought a sports car; I wanted to be an engineer; I'm getting only $30/Medicaid and Medicare patient and it's getting worse") ~ curious, what's the message behind the message of these 15 physicians and your regret? Not doing it? Doing it?

Hope things are better on the home front!

 

[squat]

Become a TEXAN!!! The most amazing in-state tuition in the country.

 

[Benicetoall]

I empathize all to well with your circumstances. I was in graduate school for CRNA when
my wife was sitting on the edge of the bed, crying and saying "you can't imagine how much we owe". She was not employable because of Psy/health problems. After
graduation, med school was brought up by other people. She said, she almost couldn't cope with me doing CRNA much less med school. In essence med school = divorce. I decided in favor of the marriage. I'm glad I did. Nevertheless, she left with her boyfriend after 9 yrs .
After she left, I lived below my means and saved my money and I can now pay for 4 years of medical school plus a 2 yr post-bac in cash up front for an expensive school.

I did not become a CRNA for the money. The only parental expectation for me was to work in a factory. My dad swept breadcrumbs out of the back of trucks for 27yrs. I was
taught to hate money and those with it.
As far as CRNA, NP and PA-c, go. It is what it is, and EBM (evidence based medicine)
results will fall as they may.
In my personnel experience as a RN. In peace time, military medicine is MASH and in war. It's China beach. I left behind a piece of my soul in a certain Burn ICU.

As a doctor. You need to be willing to cross multiple state lines for school, clinical and
work. Mobility is flexibility.

1)I would check the office of Fin aid of the medical school you want to go too. There is
GOV money for Prim care, rural, Indian and so-on.
2) Have you considered working both you and your wife. Either as NP's, RN's and save some money. ICU pay should be 30/hr and if you go LTAC 40/hr. Plus over time. I had
a CRNA classmate who did locum with his wife for a year and they paid cash for his school.

 

[GasDreams]

Become a TEXAN!!! The most amazing in-state tuition in the country.

I would if the app system let me use grade replacement lol

 

[GasDreams]

I empathize all to well with your circumstances. I was in graduate school for CRNA when
my wife was sitting on the edge of the bed, crying and saying "you can't imagine how much we owe". She was not employable because of Psy/health problems. After
graduation, med school was brought up by other people. She said, she almost couldn't cope with me doing CRNA much less med school. In essence med school = divorce. I decided in favor of the marriage. I'm glad I did. Nevertheless, she left with her boyfriend after 9 yrs .
After she left, I lived below my means and saved my money and I can now pay for 4 years of medical school plus a 2 yr post-bac in cash up front for an expensive school.

I did not become a CRNA for the money. The only parental expectation for me was to work in a factory. My dad swept breadcrumbs out of the back of trucks for 27yrs. I was
taught to hate money and those with it.
As far as CRNA, NP and PA-c, go. It is what it is, and EBM (evidence based medicine)
results will fall as they may.
In my personnel experience as a RN. In peace time, military medicine is MASH and in war. It's China beach. I left behind a piece of my soul in a certain Burn ICU.

As a doctor. You need to be willing to cross multiple state lines for school, clinical and
work. Mobility is flexibility.

1)I would check the office of Fin aid of the medical school you want to go too. There is
GOV money for Prim care, rural, Indian and so-on.
2) Have you considered working both you and your wife. Either as NP's, RN's and save some money. ICU pay should be 30/hr and if you go LTAC 40/hr. Plus over time. I had
a CRNA classmate who did locum with his wife for a year and they paid cash for his school.

Incredible story. Sorry to hear that about your wife. Great insight and advice here, thanks for this.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Lots of great resources on here if you haven't found them yet:https://www.aamc.org/services/first/

Here's a long list of non-military scholarship/loan repayment options:https://services.aamc.org/fed_loan_pub/index.cfm?fuseaction=public.welcome&CFID=7563505

 

[Arkangeloid]

I think OP should just become a nurse. It's a more financially viable career than being a physician, and you still get to "help people" if that's what you're after.

 

[GasDreams]

I think OP should just become a nurse. It's a more financially viable career than being a physician, and you still get to "help people" if that's what you're after.

Money isn't what I'm after. Satisfaction in my career and having pride and confidence in what I do is.

Ill state it again, I do NOT want to be a nurse playing doctor.

 

[deleted307836]

Money isn't what I'm after. Satisfaction in my career and having pride and confidence in what I do is.

Ill state it again, I do NOT want to be a nurse playing doctor.

OK, this was pointed out earlier in this thread too, but this is an aspect of your situation that I find distasteful.

Your wife is a NP. Is she a nurse playing doctor? If so, does she know that's how you feel about her? Is that something you plan on keeping silent about while you accept her financial support to pay for your education?

 

[HoboCommander]

You seem to have your mind made up already to go to med school, and you are looking for moral support. Every situation is different. Some marriages are worth it and some are not.

You could sacrifice your dreams to save your marriage, and then 5 years later the marriage fails anyway.

You could sacrifice your marriage to live your dream, and later regret giving up a good marriage for a job you don't even like that much.

 

[GasDreams]

OK, this was pointed out earlier in this thread too, but this is an aspect of your situation that I find distasteful.

Your wife is a NP. Is she a nurse playing doctor? If so, does she know that's how you feel about her? Is that something you plan on keeping silent about while you accept her financial support to pay for your education?

I have discussed this with my wife. Thankfully she isn't closed minded and knows I'm entitled to my own opinions. My wife could sleep through medical school and still graduate top of her class and she knows I feel this way about her.

She's brilliant and could have just as easily been accepted to medical school if she tried. She has no desire to be a physician therefore as a nurse practitioner she would be comfortable practicing within the scope. The difference is I want to be a physician and practice to the fullest scope. If I " settled" for NP I'm sure I would constantly try to step outside of my boundary and would then be a " nurse playing doctor"

I would either be unethical as an NP or stagnant and unhappy as a safe, law-abiding one.

Either of those options suck.

Feel me?

 

[GasDreams]

You seem to have your mind made up already to go to med school, and you are looking for moral support. Every situation is different. Some marriages are worth it and some are not.

You could sacrifice your dreams to save your marriage, and then 5 years later the marriage fails anyway.

You could sacrifice your marriage to live your dream, and later regret giving up a good marriage for a job you don't even like that much.

Lol, the risks we take...

 

[deleted307836]

I have discussed this with my wife. Thankfully she isn't closed minded and knows I'm entitled to my own opinions. My wife could sleep through medical school and still graduate top of her class and she knows I feel this way about her.

She's brilliant and could have just as easily been accepted to medical school if she tried. She has no desire to be a physician therefore as a nurse practitioner she would be comfortable practicing within the scope. The difference is I want to be a physician and practice to the fullest scope. If I " settled" for NP I'm sure I would constantly try to step outside of my boundary and would then be a " nurse playing doctor"

I would either be unethical as an NP or stagnant and unhappy as a safe, law-abiding one.

Either of those options suck.

Feel me?

Yes - that makes a lot more sense. Without that explanation, it almost appears as if you are accepting "blood money" to pay for school...

 

[534455]

My wife could sleep through medical school and still graduate top of her class and she knows I feel this way about her.

No such animal exists. Sorry to break it to you. As already pointed out by others at higher levels than me inside medical education, medical school breaks all of us but on different levels.

The difference is I want to be a physician and practice to the fullest scope. If I " settled" for NP I'm sure I would constantly try to step outside of my boundary and would then be a " nurse playing doctor"

You have your answer. Now you just need to sell your wife. Good luck with that! Read below for why I write this

My wife was accepted to nursing school today (BSN program). We cried together out of joy.
Great compromise. I will be the tutor, of course, and eventually we will work together in medicine, probably missionary medicine. We are hoping to visit Cuba in 1-2 years as students to get a foretaste. We've owned the house, raised the kids, traveled the world, owned the expensive cars....now we are excited about our new journeys.

As for debt? who are you kidding? With her being an NP and you an MD, it is a moot point. C'mon....!!

however, marriages are tricky and most Americans fail at it, with quite a few staying in them even though unhappy and/or dysfunctional. My spouse came around to support me, and then had the gravitas to do course work also as a non-trad to get into nursing school. I have said it all day today, "I am so proud of you honey". I think we are on our umpteenth honeymoon because our marriage is that solid. How did it all happen?

Those who have been married successfully for many years will tell you: it takes work.

Have you put in the work with your marriage? That's probably the one question that hasn't been addressed in this thread but I rarely read entire threads (guilty). My first reaction to reading your initial question as the OP was simply: did he put in the work in his marriage?

If so, your wife would be supportive b/c it would have been a joint decision.
It seems to me you are flying solo on this one. But what do I know.

it's late and I'm getting summoned to bed.

night night

 

[jl lin]

No such animal exists. Sorry to break it to you. As already pointed out by others at higher levels than me inside medical education, medical school breaks all of us but on different levels.




You have your answer. Now you just need to sell your wife. Good luck with that! Read below for why I write this

My wife was accepted to nursing school today (BSN program). We cried together out of joy.
Great compromise. I will be the tutor, of course, and eventually we will work together in medicine, probably missionary medicine. We are hoping to visit Cuba in 1-2 years as students to get a foretaste. We've owned the house, raised the kids, traveled the world, owned the expensive cars....now we are excited about our new journeys.

As for debt? who are you kidding? With her being an NP and you an MD, it is a moot point. C'mon....!!

however, marriages are tricky and most Americans fail at it, with quite a few staying in them even though unhappy and/or dysfunctional. My spouse came around to support me, and then had the gravitas to do course work also as a non-trad to get into nursing school. I have said it all day today, "I am so proud of you honey". I think we are on our umpteenth honeymoon because our marriage is that solid. How did it all happen?

Those who have been married successfully for many years will tell you: it takes work.

Have you put in the work with your marriage? That's probably the one question that hasn't been addressed in this thread but I rarely read entire threads (guilty). My first reaction to reading your initial question as the OP was simply: did he put in the work in his marriage?

If so, your wife would be supportive b/c it would have been a joint decision.
It seems to me you are flying solo on this one. But what do I know.

it's late and I'm getting summoned to bed.

night night

OK but sounds s little judgmental...you have NO idea what this person may or may ot have put into their relationship. Your conclusion above doesn't necessarily follow...at all.

To op, look, go for what you want, but don't think for a second doctors don't have to play mother-may-I medicine. It has become the reality for many, even way past residency or fellowship. People think in medicine there is all this autonomy. If there ever way, it has been progressively taken away...and with all the forthcoming regs, whitehouse delays or not, the autonomy will continue to shrink. Even for private payers, the legal hairiness of practicing medicine means a lot of deferment, oversight, or team decisions. Very few cowboys in medicine anymore. Cowboys can be good at time, but they can also be a huge pain. The system doesn't allow for them pretty much, and you usually have to pay close to a decade or more to even come close. Most of the very few cowboys left that I know are surgeons...and they paid a big price over a LONG period of time...which included a heck of a lot of abuse. All of healthcare is a very harsh environment. Mostly everyone in it has their share of serious scars. But the scars I am talking about are not glamorous ones.

Med schools are right to make sure prospective students have had some decent exposure. Truth is, often it's not enough. You can't merely read about it or get a couple hundred hours or even 1000 hours in it to get a genuine feel for what it is like. There is a reason why many great med students get through it to residency and then they regret their choice. The outlandish cost of most med school programs end up making a lot of people feel oppressed--slaves to the choice. Many are locked it because of the cost of med school and the loss of earned income. Throw some insane politics in there and it can become quite a nightmare for a number of folks. Everyone worries about their gpa and MCAT. Shoot. They should worry about getting loads and loads of clinical exposure...preferably in acute or critical care or crazy ED in an inner city. I say 1800 hours is a good start

 

[GasDreams]

OK but sounds s little judgmental...you have NO idea what this person may or may ot have put into their relationship. Your conclusion above doesn't necessarily follow...at all.

To op, look, go for what you want, but don't think for a second doctors don't have to play mother-may-I medicine. It has become the reality for many, even way past residency or fellowship. People think in medicine there is all this autonomy. If there ever way, it has been progressively taken away...and with all the forthcoming regs, whitehouse delays or not, the autonomy will continue to shrink. Even for private payers, the legal hairiness of practicing medicine means a lot of deferment, oversight, or team decisions. Very few cowboys in medicine anymore. Cowboys can be good at time, but they can also be a huge pain. The system doesn't allow for them pretty much, and you usually have to pay close to a decade or more to even come close. Most of the very few cowboys left that I know are surgeons...and they paid a big price over a LONG period of time...which included a heck of a lot of abuse. All of healthcare is a very harsh environment. Mostly everyone in it has their share of serious scars. But the scars I am talking about are not glamorous ones.

Med schools are right to make sure prospective students have had some decent exposure. Truth is, often it's not enough. You can't merely read about it or get a couple hundred hours or even 1000 hours in it to get a genuine feel for what it is like. There is a reason why many great med students get through it to residency and then they regret their choice. The outlandish cost of most med school programs end up making a lot of people feel oppressed--slaves to the choice. Many are locked it because of the cost of med school and the loss of earned income. Throw some insane politics in there and it can become quite a nightmare for a number of folks. Everyone worries about their gpa and MCAT. Shoot. They should worry about getting loads and loads of clinical exposure...preferably in acute or critical care or crazy ED in an inner city. I say 1800 hours is a good start

Is any of this the same or worse for NP's? Intuitively I would refer back to the adage that " **** rolls down hill " so wouldn't it be worse for NP's in all aspects?

 

[Silent Cool]

I would if the app system let me use grade replacement lol

TCOM. Best DO school in the country.

 

[Major]

TCOM. Best DO school in the country.

Doesn't allow grade replacement but Texas does do the 10 year forgiveness if you are a resident of Tx

 

[GasDreams]

Doesn't allow grade replacement but Texas does do the 10 year forgiveness if you are a resident of Tx

Cool story. Ms resident lol

 

[jl lin]

All relative...and it depends. Plus the cost, time, and IMHO the work investment for advanced practice nursing is so much not the same. Stressful but not nearly as much overall.

I am saying that the days of kings in medicine are long gone...and when they do occur, it's for a select few that have usually paid a huge price...like a few and certain specialty surgeons.

People that think that docs are like gods and that will be how it will be for them if they get through residecncy/fellowship are in for quite a rude awakening.

The attitude has to be about serving others or people are going to be beyond disappointed.