wife giving birth during intern year

[Falconclaw]

hey guys, so it looks like my wife just got a positive pregnancy test. i start intern year next month. due date by LMP is in the middle of february, which is my month on MICU (12+ hr days, six days a week as I'm sure you guys already know). i was just wondering how flexible people are with letting me leave when my wife is actually going into labor, and whether dads ever get a day off or two to bond with their new infant. let me know if you guys have any experience with this! my wife is not in medicine btw.

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[mega_colon]

I would write your program and see if they can swap that month for an ultrasound month or something chill, you have plenty of time.

 

[Tenk]

They are required by law to give you up to three months FMLA time. Giving them the time in advance is always nice.

 

[mega_colon]

They are required by law to give you up to three months FMLA time. Giving them the time in advance is always nice.

Correct, that is, as long as youre okay extending training by 3 months. I would suggest just swapping for an easier month and taking some vacation.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

They are required by law to give you up to three months FMLA time. Giving them the time in advance is always nice.

Do they? Doesn't FMLA require you to have worked there for 12 months?

 

[gutonc]

Do they? Doesn't FMLA require you to have worked there for 12 months?

FMLA yes. State rules may be more generous.

 

[em1234]

definitely switch for something less taxing if you can. We had our first son, 1mo into residency, during my VA MICU month. I called in on the day he was born which was my call night and was back to work after the "post call" day, so had about 48h off. With out daughter, during my 3rd year, called in the day she was born and was at work the following day. Not ideal, but residency isn't terribly forgiving either, unless it has changed dramatically in the last 10y. People were very cool about covering for the delivery, but we were a very "family friendly" program.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

It's really important for you to be there with your wife and new baby. Don't let the residency machine tell you otherwise.

I would tell, not ask, your chiefs today that you need your rotations to be swapped around so that you are on either anesthesia or ultrasound when your wife is due. It's annoying, but your chiefs knowingly signed up for a year of annoyance when they took this job.

FMLA might be an option.

Worst case scenario, if they refuse and you can't find switches, you call out the week or two after the birth.

 

[Birdstrike]

hey guys, so it looks like my wife just got a positive pregnancy test. i start intern year next month. due date by LMP is in the middle of february, which is my month on MICU (12+ hr days, six days a week as I'm sure you guys already know). i was just wondering how flexible people are with letting me leave when my wife is actually going into labor, and whether dads ever get a day off or two to bond with their new infant. let me know if you guys have any experience with this! my wife is not in medicine btw.

Congrats! Family comes first, so do what you have to do to get it right. You’re gonna love that baby.

 

[Tenk]

Do they? Doesn't FMLA require you to have worked there for 12 months?

Oh true. Forgot hes an intern.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Oh true. Forgot hes an intern.

This bit me in the ass my first year out of residency. Needed a week for my wife after a procedure. Was told no, and that FMLA didn't apply so I had to work.

Told them I was taking the week and that they were welcome to fire me.

I took that week. They didn't fire me.

 

[WildcatS11]

It's really important for you to be there with your wife and new baby. Don't let the residency machine tell you otherwise.

I would tell, not ask, your chiefs today that you need your rotations to be swapped around so that you are on either anesthesia or ultrasound when your wife is due. It's annoying, but your chiefs knowingly signed up for a year of annoyance when they took this job.

FMLA might be an option.

Worst case scenario, if they refuse and you can't find switches, you call out the week or two after the birth.

As someone not too far removed from the chief role, I have to emphasize that this is the wrong way to handle this. I firmly believe you should have the means to change your schedule so that you have adequate parental leave. And if it becomes difficult, you should definitely escalate this to the leadership (starting with PD). However, as a brand spanking new intern, you do not want to start out demanding difficult changes be made on your behalf. I agree you SHOULD get the changes, but respect the chiefs and the program enough to be polite and have a cordial conversation about your schedule needs. There were a few people who always e-mailed us about "what they needed to happen" and it usually got met with a huge eye roll. Don't be the demanding new intern (even if your demands are legitimate). They will almost certainly help you out if you are a respectful about it. And if not, chief residents are not the end-all-be-all of the program, not even close. You have others to go to bat for you (APD's, PD, GME office, etc).

 

[Tenk]

This bit me in the ass my first year out of residency. Needed a week for my wife after a procedure. Was told no, and that FMLA didn't apply so I had to work.

Told them I was taking the week and that they were welcome to fire me.

I took that week. They didn't fire me.

Terrible. Glad they didn’t fire you for taking care of your family.

 

[Tenk]

As someone not too far removed from the chief role, I have to emphasize that this is the wrong way to handle this. I firmly believe you should have the means to change your schedule so that you have adequate parental leave. And if it becomes difficult, you should definitely escalate this to the leadership (starting with PD). However, as a brand spanking new intern, you do not want to start out demanding difficult changes be made on your behalf. I agree you SHOULD get the changes, but respect the chiefs and the program enough to be polite and have a cordial conversation about your schedule needs. There were a few people who always e-mailed us about "what they needed to happen" and it usually got met with a huge eye roll. Don't be the demanding new intern (even if your demands are legitimate). They will almost certainly help you out if you are a respectful about it. And if not, chief residents are not the end-all-be-all of the program, not even close. You have others to go to bat for you (APD's, PD, GME office, etc).

This is 100% true. Anyone who is an intern please do not be that guy (or gal).

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Terrible. Glad they didn’t fire you for taking care of your family.

Honestly it taught me a pretty important lesson: they need me more than I need them.

 

[TeddyBoomBoom]

Honestly it taught me a pretty important lesson: they need me more than I need them.

I dunno, man.... I’m pretty sure the intern is a not on the top end of the power dynamic.

Disclaimer: I’m an intern, and I’m happy at my program. Having said that, I’m pretty sure it would be about a billion x easier for them to fill my spot that for me to get a new spot if I was fired

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I dunno, man.... I’m pretty sure the intern is a not on the top end of the power dynamic.

Disclaimer: I’m an intern, and I’m happy at my program. Having said that, I’m pretty sure it would be about a billion x easier for them to fill my spot that for me to get a new spot if I was fired

This bit me in the ass my first year out of residency. Needed a week for my wife after a procedure. Was told no, and that FMLA didn't apply so I had to work.

Told them I was taking the week and that they were welcome to fire me.

I took that week. They didn't fire me.

 

[MechEDoc]

I dunno, man.... I’m pretty sure the intern is a not on the top end of the power dynamic.

Disclaimer: I’m an intern, and I’m happy at my program. Having said that, I’m pretty sure it would be about a billion x easier for them to fill my spot that for me to get a new spot if I was fired

I would like to point out that the program might not like a given intern, but they may care about their numbers (percent completing, passing boards, etc.). They'll make your life hell for 3-4 years, but you'll make it out so they look good to the outside world.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Sad that this even has to be a discussion. In any other field of work it would almost be an assumption that adequate time off would be granted. But of course in medicine we gotta eat our own.

 

[Birdstrike]

I was a new attending when my wife had our first kid. When she went in to labor my ED director told me, “Suck it up. Work. I worked when my wife was in labor and I ran up and said, ‘Hi’ between codes.”

I should have know right then and there, I was in a severely abnormal and toxic culture and that it was time to get the hell out ASAP. But thankfully, a real solid stand up partner of mine gutted out that night shift for me despite no sleep 24 hrs and having been on opposite shifts. I feel indebted to him to this day.

I would never give up the memory of being at the birth of my first child for anything, let alone to appease a toxic work culture that shifts the blame for burnout from itself onto the doctor, with no signs of any intention of improving physician wellness, ever.

Do what you have to do to be there. You won’t regret it.

 

[thegenius]

I dunno, man.... I’m pretty sure the intern is a not on the top end of the power dynamic.

Disclaimer: I’m an intern, and I’m happy at my program. Having said that, I’m pretty sure it would be about a billion x easier for them to fill my spot that for me to get a new spot if I was fired

Do you understand how terrible the press would be for the program for firing a resident who wants a few weeks off to be with their first child? Social media would have a field day with that.

 

[thegenius]

Sad that this even has to be a discussion. In any other field of work it would almost be an assumption that adequate time off would be granted. But of course in medicine we gotta eat our own.

Very sad. If I were a chief resident or an APD, or PD...I would ask

"how much time do you want off? We'll he happy to grant you your request."

 

[thegenius]

I was a new attending when my wife had our first kid. When she went in to labor my ED director told me, “Suck it up. Work. I worked when my wife was in labor and I ran up and said, ‘Hi’ between codes.”

I should have know right then and there, I was in a severely abnormal and toxic culture and that it was time to get the hell out ASAP. But thankfully, a real solid stand up partner of mine gutted out that night shift for me despite no sleep 24 hrs and having been on opposite shifts. I feel indebted to him to this day.

I would never give up the memory of being at the birth of my first child for anything, let alone to appease a toxic work culture that shifts the blame for burnout from itself onto the doctor, with no signs of any intention of improving physician wellness, ever.

Do what you have to do to be there. You won’t regret it.

Yea man...not only do what you need to be there...but take some friggin time off too.

There will come a time when you realize there isn't much for you to do with the baby in the first several months...but you can help out by doing other things like cleaning the house, doing dishes, making food, stuff like that.

Funny...I remember our first child. Within the first few months, I woke up when he cried just as quickly as my wife did.

With our second child, I slept through all his crying. :-0

 

[PianoMedic]

I just went through this personally this past year as an intern. I'll give my two cents:

Communicate with your program now. Let your PD and chiefs know immediately. They will know the local guidelines on how much time you can take off, etc. Fwiw, at my program we have to take any remaining vacation and sick time before being allowed to use FMLA. From my read on our policy, we were exempted from the one year waiting period on it. They would allow us to take the full amount if we desired, but you have to pay more to keep your health insurance and some other hassles.

I agree with the recommendation to move MICU, but be aware that babies do what they want. My wife had a tough pregnancy with several scares along the way. Our child came four weeks early. I didn't switch my months around, and our little one came just before my last week on OB... Ironic for sure. I delivered the kiddo and it counted as a delivery for me.

So, what did I do in the end for my "paternity leave?" I had the weekend our kiddo was born off, then had to work the last week of my rotation. I had the weekend between OB and my next block off already. My chief was able to schedule me off for the first three days of the following rotation (luckily it was a Peds ED block) so I got five days off in a row once the little one was a week old.

If you have family in the area, use them for the first two to three weeks as much as possible. My in laws stayed for week one and my mother came down for week two to help us out. This helped my wife adjust with assistance, probably more than I could have provided truth be told. Take the leave how you want to do it.

My program can make it work if we take two weeks or less so off that we don't have to extend residency. I wish I had taken the full two weeks, but other circumstances prevented that. I went back to work on the same unit where my wife and child were located in the hospital after the weekend. That was tough. It all worked out and I have a great bond with my kiddo now.

Good luck with the next year. It's stressful with the start of residency and all, but being a parent is one of the best things I've ever done. It's cliche by now, but the time just disappears without you noticing. Enjoy every second of it you get.

 

[RuralEDDoc]

The first month after birth is HARD. Way harder than your job will be (yes including residency). I would ask to cluster vacation followed by a light rotation. I had 2 weeks off after the first child, and while that seems luxurious compared to birdstrikes experience, it felt like two weeks too short. Let me reiterate that the first month is difficult assuming everything goes well.

 

[Buckeye1992]

Literally just went through the same thing OP. I didn’t change my block schedule around. Wife was due right at the end of a block. Was able to front and backload the surrounding blocks to get time off

 

[deleted109597]

I was going to second an above comment. Certainly do not tell them to switch your month.
Do tell them when the EDC is (maybe wait for that early US to get a more firm grasp of dates).
If you make a big deal of of them switching months around, and then suddenly the kid is early, then they've got to do more scrambling.

I also don't recall any cake rotations as an intern, so I'm not sure which easy one they're going to swap in there for you.

 

[Groove]

Out of curiosity...why on earth intern year? Who's decision was it to stop the birth control? What a terrible year to have a kid.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Out of curiosity...why on earth intern year? Who's decision was it to stop the birth control? What a terrible year to have a kid.

Dude. Inappropriate.

 

[scummie]

I remember our chief resident visiting his wife in between rounds/patients during MICU to check on her. I don’t even think he took two days off. Sure, he could have taken FMLA or whatever. I don’t know all of his personal reasons for not doing it.

Other rotations you might want to think about are US, EMS, non-ICU ward months if you have those. Or simply ask for your OB/gyn rotation when your wife is supposed to deliver. Volunteer for 72 hour call. Guaranteed way to be there.

 

[Groove]

Dude. Inappropriate.

I'm just being honest... I mean, was it planned? I can't imagine planning to have a kid during intern year. That year was a nightmare, but then again... we didn't have all those work hour restrictions. I feel like I lived in the hospital that year. I fell asleep at stop lights after 32h call nights and can't imaging having energy to take care of a baby once I got home.

Anyway, I'm sure you guys will work it out. Hopefully you're in one of those millennial friendly residency programs with safe words, morning report yoga and emergency baby sabbaticals.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I'm just being honest... I mean, was it planned? I can't imagine planning to have a kid during intern year. That year was a nightmare, but then again... we didn't have all those work hour restrictions. I feel like I lived in the hospital that year. I fell asleep at stop lights after 32h call nights and can't imaging having energy to take care of a baby once I got home.

Anyway, I'm sure you guys will work it out. Hopefully you're in one of those millennial friendly residency programs with safe words, morning report yoga and emergency baby sabbaticals.

Maybe she's older. Maybe he's older. The risk of badness increases as both parents age. Maybe it was unintentional. Or maybe (GASP) they just wanted to have a child. It really doesn't matter. The bolded statement above reflects what's wrong in medicine. It has nothing to do with being a "touchy feely program" and everything about being a human. God forbid an attending puts in a few orders to cover for a resident.

 

[Groove]

More of this...

and less of this... you say?

 

[Birdstrike]

Oh, and he put me on nights the week after our baby was born. His reasoning, "No one will be sleeping anyways."

But it's all good, and I'm not complaining. We got through it. And my kids are doing just fine. But the point is that getting ahead of these things is a good idea.

 

[Birdstrike]

I fell asleep at stop lights after 32h call nights and can't imaging having energy to take care of a baby once I got home.

You got to go home?

 

[Birdstrike]

Hopefully you're in one of those millennial friendly residency programs with safe words, morning report yoga and emergency baby sabbaticals.

My residency was 100% pre-work hour rules, too. And all the things we complained about and asked for have started to come into being for the current generation. And although we'll poke fun at it, I think it's a good thing. Life's too short to be hating it all the time.

I want morning report yoga and sabbaticals, too.


"Ooommmmmmmmmm........."

 

[TeddyBoomBoom]

I was in no way suggesting that he shouldn’t be able to be at his birth. As a matter of fact, my wife had a baby this year (my intern year) and my program scheduled my vacation around it.

I just think it’s prudent to remember that in residency, the program pretty much has all the power, and I’d be pretty careful about “telling” them what do do. Asking for help tends to get better results, at least imo.

I dunno, man.... I’m pretty sure the intern is a not on the top end of the power dynamic.

Disclaimer: I’m an intern, and I’m happy at my program. Having said that, I’m pretty sure it would be about a billion x easier for them to fill my spot that for me to get a new spot if I was fired

I would like to point out that the program might not like a given intern, but they may care about their numbers (percent completing, passing boards, etc.). They'll make your life hell for 3-4 years, but you'll make it out so they look good to the outside world.

Do you understand how terrible the press would be for the program for firing a resident who wants a few weeks off to be with their first child? Social media would have a field day with that.

 

[deleted547339]

Fmla doesn’t apply to you since you won’t be an employee for a full year prior. Email your PD and chiefs as soon as you’ve had your US to confirm IUP.

What should happen if you’re not at a toxic program:

Icu changed to the first half of the year. Cluster your vacation time immediately around the due date. You may or may not be granted more time off if you’re willing to extend your training. You, at least, shouldn’t have to go back until everyone’s home for a few days (barring a long NICU stay). Humbly asking for this should be done immediately. They may have to switch some other things around, but if they don’t that’s insane. There are some things in life you can’t miss and this is one of them. It doesn’t matter how hard it is for your chiefs or your PD to accommodate it, that’s part of their job. If your child delivers at the beginning of a string of night shifts and one of the chiefs has to do all double overnights for you, not your problem. Now, don’t be a princess and ask off for all of the OB appointments (there will be a lot), and months after the delivery while expecting to not have to work extra at other times. Also, don’t start the conversation by saying that you’re not showing up. But if push comes to shove, you can do this later. One of the chiefs one year was kind of a d and I flat out said that you’re wrong, this is your mistake and I’m not showing up. You try not to do this, but sometimes you have to. This wouldn’t be my move until a couple weeks from due date and still scheduled.

Remember, kids have a mind of their own. You could come early or late. Having a good plan in place for coverage is nice, but when mommy’s water breaks, you’re not coming in.

Congrats. We had a kid in training. Happy to answer any questions via PM.

 

[Groove]

My residency was 100% pre-work hour rules, too. And all the things we complained about and asked for have started to come into being for the current generation. And although we'll poke fun at it, I think it's a good thing. Life's too short to be hating it all the time.

I want morning report yoga and sabbaticals, too.


"Ooommmmmmmmmm........."

I think all the increased work hour restrictions are terrible. I mean, residents can't even stay in the hospital long enough to follow a patients course from day through the night for a simple normal call schedule. If they can't even experience what's it's like to work all day and work with little if any sleep that night, then how are they going to prepare for the real world? Surgeons have that kind of schedule all the time. I can't tell you how much I learned from just being in the hospital all the time. Nobody likes sleep deprivation or being shattered awake during call night by a crashing patient but you sucked it up and did it. It's simple math. If residencies nowadays are decreasing hours but keeping the overall residency length the same, then the residents have less time in a training environment and are bound to suffer for it. You can't take a physician who's been working in a hospital for 15-20K hours during 5 years of residency compared to someone working 10K hours and expect them to have the same level of training or proficiency. You can't cheat the numbers or the experience. All these new hour restrictions are going to either pump out less proficient physicians and/or extend residencies an extra year or two, both of which are bad IMO. I get all the societal, governmental and state supported measures to make residency more kumbaya friendly and stress free, but is that really representative of the real world for a physician these days?

As a scheduler, I see it first hand among docs who are fresh out of residency from one of these types of programs with significantly decreased work hours. You put them on 5 shifts in a row and they flip out. You put them on 3 nights in a row and they flip out. Give them more than 14 shifts in a month and they act like they are being worked in a North Korean hard labor camp.

 

[scummie]

Congrats! Family comes first, so do what you have to do to get it right. You’re gonna love that baby.

This.
Family comes first. We have all seen people die in the ED and no one says, “Please, call my boss, I have to get one last spreadsheet in.” In medicine we put everybody else in front of us and wonder why we are burnt out. Sorry, but to perpetuate the human race (as we can see natural selection does not work for the ED patient population), people are going to have to have babies. And honestly, I’d rather you have this baby seeing as how you can actually provide for it rather than some rando with their 5th kid, wondering why the kids fever doesn’t go away after one dose of Tylenol.

Am I bitter? Sure. I played the party line, didn’t even think about trying to have a kid until my chief year. I’m 30, two years of infertility, if we don’t have luck within the next year, IVF it is. Do you think I want to broadcast “Hey I need only shifts after 9:30 AM because the REI doesn’t do ultrasounds any other time?” Doing injections during your shift? You do not need to justify having a kid.

It’s better to use your time now as a resident than as a attending when your income potential is way higher. There’s a difference between being a decent human and expecting other people to cover your stuff because you didn’t plan. People in my residency had to move rotations around because of babies, but also serious illnesses requiring hospitalizations. There needs to be some flexibility for Pete’s sake. What would you want for yourself if god forbid you were in this position? /end rant.

 

[deleted547339]

I think all the increased work hour restrictions are terrible. I mean, residents can't even stay in the hospital long enough to follow a patients course from day through the night for a simple normal call schedule. If they can't even experience what's it's like to work all day and work with little if any sleep that night, then how are they going to prepare for the real world? Surgeons have that kind of schedule all the time. I can't tell you how much I learned from just being in the hospital all the time. Nobody likes sleep deprivation or being shattered awake during call night by a crashing patient but you sucked it up and did it. It's simple math. If residencies nowadays are decreasing hours but keeping the overall residency length the same, then the residents have less time in a training environment and are bound to suffer for it. You can't take a physician who's been working in a hospital for 15-20K hours during 5 years of residency compared to someone working 10K hours and expect them to have the same level of training or proficiency. You can't cheat the numbers or the experience. All these new hour restrictions are going to either pump out less proficient physicians and/or extend residencies an extra year or two, both of which are bad IMO. I get all the societal, governmental and state supported measures to make residency more kumbaya friendly and stress free, but is that really representative of the real world for a physician these days?

As a scheduler, I see it first hand among docs who are fresh out of residency from one of these types of programs with significantly decreased work hours. You put them on 5 shifts in a row and they flip out. You put them on 3 nights in a row and they flip out. Give them more than 14 shifts in a month and they act like they are being worked in a North Korean hard labor camp.

Some of the hourly stuff you touch on, you’re right, some you’re not. We’ve cut out a lot of scut and added a lot of midlevels. There are certainly different stressors now. I did some 30 hour call as a resident, it was fine. Not the boogie man, but not a panacea either. I think my program (which is relatively light on hours) graduates very proficient docs.

It’s funny how touchie some people are about their schedule. I’m just one year out from training, so my opinions may change, but people get this false sense of attachment as soon as the schedule comes out. To be an ER doc, you have to be flexible. You put in the requests you must have off, then work the rest. If I work a Tuesday afternoon vs. a Friday, who cares? At least right now, my wife stays home and kids aren’t in school, so literally almost every day is equal. Working Veterans Day? So what, I can grill out any Monday I’m off. And I’ll certainly have at least one Monday off each month.

Thankfully, I think we have a pretty good scheduler, which helps. But as long as you’re not in a toxic group, it should shake itself out.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I think all the increased work hour restrictions are terrible. I mean, residents can't even stay in the hospital long enough to follow a patients course from day through the night for a simple normal call schedule. If they can't even experience what's it's like to work all day and work with little if any sleep that night, then how are they going to prepare for the real world? Surgeons have that kind of schedule all the time. I can't tell you how much I learned from just being in the hospital all the time. Nobody likes sleep deprivation or being shattered awake during call night by a crashing patient but you sucked it up and did it. It's simple math. If residencies nowadays are decreasing hours but keeping the overall residency length the same, then the residents have less time in a training environment and are bound to suffer for it. You can't take a physician who's been working in a hospital for 15-20K hours during 5 years of residency compared to someone working 10K hours and expect them to have the same level of training or proficiency. You can't cheat the numbers or the experience. All these new hour restrictions are going to either pump out less proficient physicians and/or extend residencies an extra year or two, both of which are bad IMO. I get all the societal, governmental and state supported measures to make residency more kumbaya friendly and stress free, but is that really representative of the real world for a physician these days?

As a scheduler, I see it first hand among docs who are fresh out of residency from one of these types of programs with significantly decreased work hours. You put them on 5 shifts in a row and they flip out. You put them on 3 nights in a row and they flip out. Give them more than 14 shifts in a month and they act like they are being worked in a North Korean hard labor camp.

Back in myyyyy dayyyyyyyyyy.......

I'm a product of a post work hours restrictions residency. I worked enough. I was moonlighting with ease as a senior. I did 30 hour call q3 in the SICU and a more brutal schedule in the MICU.

Now that I'm an attending, I work 12 hrs shifts x 5 or six shifts in a row at the drop of a hat. I'm tired at the end but it's no biggie.

Btw when I told the big bad CMG I work for that I wanted to take a paternity leave they said "Sure! Let us know in advance how long. We will work around you."

My wife on the other hand continued to work in the unit without reasonable accomodations until she was 40 weeks gestation.

I've seen my fair share of the abuses the academic machine forces onto us. Enough.

 

[Porfirio]

Hahahahahhahahaaaaaha at all the old attendings thinking duty hour restrictions mean less qualified new attendings. I do not think being in the hospital for 30 hours straight prepared me for anything special. Most of the time I was in the hospital for that 30 hours straight I wasn’t even doing Emergency Medicine. Just hahahahahahhaaa. You suckers got taken for a ride back in the day.

 

[DokterMom]

Sad that this even has to be a discussion. In any other field of work it would almost be an assumption that adequate time off would be granted. But of course in medicine we gotta eat our own.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!




What other highly-compensated professions have you experienced?

Now, don’t be a princess and ask off for all of the OB appointments (there will be a lot), and months after the delivery while expecting to not have to work extra at other times.

Pretty sure the OP is a guy. You meant 'prince' right?

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!




What other highly-compensated professions have you experienced?



Pretty sure the OP is a guy. You meant 'prince' right?

I know plenty of physicians, engineers and lawyers who are given ample paid maternity AND paternity leave, also frequently extending their leave unpaid.

It's not a problem. Not even a question most of the time.

 

[Birdstrike]

I think all the increased work hour restrictions are terrible. I mean, residents can't even stay in the hospital long enough to follow a patients course from day through the night for a simple normal call schedule. If they can't even experience what's it's like to work all day and work with little if any sleep that night, then how are they going to prepare for the real world? Surgeons have that kind of schedule all the time. I can't tell you how much I learned from just being in the hospital all the time. Nobody likes sleep deprivation or being shattered awake during call night by a crashing patient but you sucked it up and did it. It's simple math. If residencies nowadays are decreasing hours but keeping the overall residency length the same, then the residents have less time in a training environment and are bound to suffer for it. You can't take a physician who's been working in a hospital for 15-20K hours during 5 years of residency compared to someone working 10K hours and expect them to have the same level of training or proficiency. You can't cheat the numbers or the experience. All these new hour restrictions are going to either pump out less proficient physicians and/or extend residencies an extra year or two, both of which are bad IMO. I get all the societal, governmental and state supported measures to make residency more kumbaya friendly and stress free, but is that really representative of the real world for a physician these days?

As a scheduler, I see it first hand among docs who are fresh out of residency from one of these types of programs with significantly decreased work hours. You put them on 5 shifts in a row and they flip out. You put them on 3 nights in a row and they flip out. Give them more than 14 shifts in a month and they act like they are being worked in a North Korean hard labor camp.

I see your point. But in today's day and age where hospital systems are looking to replace doc's with cheaper non-physicians that have done a fraction of the training, asking residents to spend 100 hrs per week in the hospital during their training is getting to be a tougher and tougher sell. For what, so they can get burned out and replaced by two NPs who're pacing themselves, at half the cost?

I understand there's a concern that a training deficit could result and I share that concern, but on the other hand, no one seems to want to pay for that extra training nowadays. I don't foresee that turning around anytime soon, do you?

I also want the highest trained doctor for myself and working side by side with me. But there's a market correction going on, that we can't ignore, where no one wants to pay for the doctor who did 10 times the training and makes 10 times more than a nurse, so they're trying to fill that gap with midlevels who are in between. And the longer that goes on, the less and less sense it makes for a 22 year old to choose the self-punishment route we chose, when they can make 60% as much for 10% of the time (and torture) endured, by taking the other path.

 

[Birdstrike]

I know plenty of physicians, engineers and lawyers who are given ample paid maternity AND paternity leave, also frequently extending their leave unpaid.

It's not a problem. Not even a question most of the time.

The leave is good, and the paid leave even better. The only tough part is who pays for it?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

We had multiple female residents extend training for maternity leave. All the males who had kids during residency got at least some time off (I don't any of us asked for more than a few weeks at most).

Your program should be able to work with you.

 

[Birdstrike]

Hahahahahhahahaaaaaha at all the old attendings thinking duty hour restrictions mean less qualified new attendings. I do not think being in the hospital for 30 hours straight prepared me for anything special. Most of the time I was in the hospital for that 30 hours straight I wasn’t even doing Emergency Medicine. Just hahahahahahhaaa. You suckers got taken for a ride back in the day.

True. Absolutely, 100% we did get taken for a ride. That's unquestionable.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Am I bitter? Sure. I played the party line, didn’t even think about trying to have a kid until my chief year. I’m 30, two years of infertility, if we don’t have luck within the next year, IVF it is. Do you think I want to broadcast “Hey I need only shifts after 9:30 AM because the REI doesn’t do ultrasounds any other time?” Doing injections during your shift? You do not need to justify having a kid.

Tangent, but don't wait any longer. 2 years of trying is more than enough to start down the IVF road (we had to go that route, my twins will be 4 in October). Also, research REI groups as everything about IVF is very very operator dependent.

Feel free to PM if needed. My wife and I are both doctors (she was a hospitalist during all of this) so we know how to make all of this work.