Wilderness Therapy

[ashejane]

I'm trying to find a doctoral program (not yet decided if I'm interested in a PsyD or a PhD) that has some involvement in wilderness therapy either a concentration in wilderness therapy or faculty who specialize in it. I am thinking about maybe doing an MA at Naropa first, as they have a really interesting Wilderness Therapy program but I was out of school for a few years and really would like to get straight into my doctoral program when I graduate.

So, if anyone knows of any progs where I could get good exposure to wilderness therapy please let me know!

Ashe

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[erg923]

Do you need a doctorate for this?

 

[PsyDr]

university of idaho

 

[Rapunzel]

http://www.obhrc.org/

looks like they moved

 

[docma]

Finding a program with faculty that specialize in adolescent and family work might be the relevant factor. And it would make sense to look for programs that are geographically close to wilderness programs that might offer practica or internship elements.

 

[zenman]

http://www.aspeneducationgroup.com

These people might can help you.

 

[psychology24]

I'm trying to find a doctoral program (not yet decided if I'm interested in a PsyD or a PhD) that has some involvement in wilderness therapy either a concentration in wilderness therapy or faculty who specialize in it. I am thinking about maybe doing an MA at Naropa first, as they have a really interesting Wilderness Therapy program but I was out of school for a few years and really would like to get straight into my doctoral program when I graduate.

So, if anyone knows of any progs where I could get good exposure to wilderness therapy please let me know!

Ashe

I don't know of any "Wilderness Therapy" programs but I do know of a Professor at Duquesne University (Clinical Psych, Ph.D), Dr. Will Adams, who specializes in Eco-Psychology. He also has a lot of tradition with meditation and spirituality also in relation to therapy. Not sure if this is quite the avenue you are looking for though...

 

[Student4Life0]

I must be out of the loop. I don't even know what wilderness therapy is...

 

[bsc]

I was wondering why you were interested in these programs? From the research I've done on them for things like conduct disorder, they do not seem to help, and/or can make things worse.

 

[Existenz]

I was wondering why you were interested in these programs? From the research I've done on them for things like conduct disorder, they do not seem to help, and/or can make things worse.

imagine the forest fires lol

 

[cara susanna]

The research doesn't support its efficacy. Just so you know.

Of course, if you really want to pursue it, then by all means go for it.

 

[aventurine]

To those who claim that wilderness therapy is not effective, are you referring to those "boot camp" type programs or to various other therapies that take place in a wilderness context? Personally, I know nothing about this, so I'm curious...

 

[cara susanna]

I think the ones that have been studied the most are the "boot camp" type ones.

 

[Nog]

Relevant article:

http://www.psychotherapybrownbag.co...guided-treatment-for-at-risk-adolescents.html

 

[Nicole Price]

You can check out this information on wilderness camp therapy programs I found on this link.

Wilderness therapy programs are rapidly becoming a highly recommended method of assisting troubled teens with emotional, addiction, adjustment and psychological problems. The average age of young people on this course is between 12 and 17 and each is encouraged to understand their problems and to develop self-awareness and take responsibility.

 

[cara susanna]

Again, the research on them is not at all promising.

 

[voyeurofthemind]

You can check out this information on wilderness camp therapy programs I found on this link.

Wilderness therapy programs are rapidly becoming a highly recommended method of assisting troubled teens with emotional, addiction, adjustment and psychological problems. The average age of young people on this course is between 12 and 17 and each is encouraged to understand their problems and to develop self-awareness and take responsibility.

That is not from a peer reviewed source. Who highly recommends? The owners of the companies or child psychologists / developmental psycholgists? Just sayin'

 

[Veit]

That is not from a peer reviewed source. Who highly recommends? The owners of the companies or child psychologists / developmental psycholgists? Just sayin'

This is entirely anecdotal (and therefore next to worthless, I know), but getting sent to a wilderness therapy program saved my life. The program was Second Nature-Utah (http://www.snwp.com/), and they are very clear in their program that it is only the first step towards wellness. The great majority of teens follow up wilderness therapy with placement in an emotional growth or therapeutic boarding school, and I can't tell you how amazingly helpful it was. In fact, it was this program that drove me towards seeking an education in (and hopefully a career in) psychology. Don't confuse these programs with the boot camp-like programs that are dying out. They really can be an amazing tool.

 

[aagman01]

Most therapeutic work done overall is not supported by the research. So I wouldn't be so quick to judge. But wilderness or rec therapy work I have heard of only requires a masters degree at most. I have never heard of a phd psychologist doing wilderness/outdoors/ropes type work.

Again, the research on them is not at all promising.

 

[aequitasveritas]

Good luck with that malpractice insurance.

Agent: And the location of your office?

Wilderness Therapist: Yellowstone. Do you cover bear attacks?

 

[cara susanna]

Most therapeutic work done overall is not supported by the research. So I wouldn't be so quick to judge. But wilderness or rec therapy work I have heard of only requires a masters degree at most. I have never heard of a phd psychologist doing wilderness/outdoors/ropes type work.

But most therapy is not as dangerous as wilderness research. Furthermore, the latter can actually make conduct problems worse.

 

[thepug]

The research doesn't support its efficacy. Just so you know.

Of course, if you really want to pursue it, then by all means go for it.

The research doesn't really support any type of therapy as far as lasting gains go - see "Chronicle of a Death Foretold, the end of Psychotherapy". I kind of scratch my head when a lot of people are obsessed with EBT when the studies backing it have very small sample sizes with a subject pool that is just plain abnormal (subjects with depression in isolation or a panic disorder and nothing else). I think in a lot of ways over-emphasizing EBT is killing our field because we lack the tools to get the true picture.

Very few types of therapy can even be evaluated using Evidence Based methods. And are these studies really providing therapy when the protocol does not allow you to further explore a sudden admission from a patient? The burden of proof really falls on researchers to develop more sophisticated methods for testing things like psychodynamic approaches rather than just spout the efficacy of CBT, which, the effect sizes in these studies are either not looked at longitudinally or when they are they often diminish.

Many types of eclectic therapy work, it's the Evidenced Based methodology which fails to reveal what patients and therapist have known for years. I think all this bias operates under the hypothesis that "weird" approaches don't work. Just because say Wilderness therapy does not fit very well on the very small, jagged petri dish of EBM, does not mean it's invalid.

 

[Vasa Lisa]

Check out the School of Lost Borders(Stephen Foster and Meredith Little) and the Animas Valley Institute (Bill Plotkin). Their guides tend to teach or collaborate with the Naropa people.

Wilderness therapy (NOT boot CAMP!) can be a transformative experience - SOLB website will provide you with references that can guide you to a deeper understanding of this approach.

HTH,

Vasa Lisa

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

People can call it what they want, they just shouldn't call it "therapy."

 

[Ollie123]

Check out the School of Lost Borders(Stephen Foster and Meredith Little) and the Animas Valley Institute (Bill Plotkin). Their guides tend to teach or collaborate with the Naropa people.

Wilderness therapy (NOT boot CAMP!) can be a transformative experience - SOLB website will provide you with references that can guide you to a deeper understanding of this approach.

HTH,

Vasa Lisa

I just went through it and this website is precisely what worries me. I hold little doubt it can be an interesting experience, but the website tells me absolutely nothing about whether or not this is anything approaching on a psychological treatment or something legitimate practitioners should consider for their clients/patients. I have no problems with healthy people choosing to go on wilderness retreats - the question is whether it can appropriately be framed as a treatment or "therapy", and the website does nothing to answer that question.

As for EBP - can someone please explain to me what magical properties psychodynamic therapy has that prevent it from being studied scientifically? This is probably second only to my "How are online schools comparable?" questions for things on this board I've been completely unable to get people to provide answers to. Manuals can be as flexible as the investigators want them to be so that's certainly not the reason...I've just never understood this. Does the goal not include symptom reduction? Why can't it be measured or studied? Science doesn't involve people just magicking up p values - what barriers are preventing it from being studied?

Many health professionals claim to have "known" things for years. This is exactly what folks claiming to cure people with moonbeams, ground grass clippings and magnets say, all while refusing to do research on it. Is it really a good idea for dynamic therapists to be aligning themselves with that crowd?

 

[Vasa Lisa]

Ollie123,

I "know" that It is the relationship that heals - thus the Dodo bird verdict on which type of therapy works best.

I think Irv Yalom captures the essence of EBT/EVT much better than I ever could hope to articulate in his book The Gift of Therapy.

That said - as a counselor - I am deeply grateful to the folks who are interested in research. The world of therapy needs both - the PhD/PsyD reseracher/clinicians and the socialworker/counselor clinicians.

Both/And

Peace!

Vasa Lisa

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

As for EBP - can someone please explain to me what magical properties psychodynamic therapy has that prevent it from being studied scientifically?

Time-limited psychodynamic therapy has some peer-reviewed EBT support. However, most of other psychodynamic therapies lack the same support.

 

[Veit]

People can call it what they want, they just shouldn't call it "therapy."

There's no real soft way to say this, but you're wrong. I'm wondering if you're thinking more about boot-camp style places, but there are a number of excellent wilderness programs that do good work, especially with adolescents. Among these are SUWS and Second Nature, two with which I am most intimately familiar, and understand that these programs are not meant to last 6-8 weeks and end with a healthy teen leaving the program. Rather, they are most often followed up with some form of aftercare, and do an excellent job preparing students for significant long-term placement in another therapeutic environment, like a therapeutic boarding school.
http://www.suws.com/outcome_study.html
http://adolescents.snwp.com/frequently-asked-questions/

They're safe, too; I'm really not sure why that's coming up as a recurring complaint. Boot camps are probably not very safe! Most wilderness programs, on the other hand, are.
http://adolescents.snwp.com/safety/

 

[PETRAN]

Wilderness therapy is not so cool. I say go to the original new-age Castaneda therapy and become a shamanic psychologist. Cooler because you can transform into a hawk as well

 

[KillerDiller]

Ollie123,
I "know" that It is the relationship that heals - thus the Dodo bird verdict on which type of therapy works best.

Setting aside the "know" issue for now, you can build a good relationship with your clients and still use ESTs. The two are not mutually exclusive. Considering that ESTs have been shown to work over and above "treatment as usual," I am hard pressed to understand the logic behind arguments against using them.

That said - as a counselor - I am deeply grateful to the folks who are interested in research. The world of therapy needs both - the PhD/PsyD reseracher/clinicians and the socialworker/counselor clinicians.

Extrapolating from this, aren't you saying that research and EBP should be a core process of doctoral training? I agree! I don't understand why so many people want to obtain a doctorate in this field and yet don't respect the empirical process.

 

[Ollie123]

Time-limited psychodynamic therapy has some peer-reviewed EBT support. However, most of other psychodynamic therapies lack the same support.

Oh I'm well aware and have been following those studies - its just one more reason why I find the above baffling.

RE: Others - I maintain what I said before - I have no problems with people believing the Dodo Bird hypothesis if they can argue it coherently, but "I just know" is not an argument. I glanced at the websites Veit posted and at least they attempted to track outcomes (albeit they did a poor job and I doubt their website made it through peer-review!), which is a start. However, until they get their acts together I maintain this is extremely sketchy stuff and not something legit practitioners should be labeling as anything beyond "experimental" or encouraging people to do if there are any other options.

 

[KillerDiller]

I'm wondering if you're thinking more about boot-camp style places, but there are a number of excellent wilderness programs that do good work, especially with adolescents.

Enough with the boot-camp thing. We get it, it's not the same as the boot-camp fad that was so popular a few years back. That doesn't make it therapy. There are many programs out there that help troubled youth, that doesn't make them therapy either. Basically any program that takes these kids out of their regular environment is going to have an overall effect because often it is the environment that provides cues for the troubled behavior. If kids are going to this program and then going on to a different school environment, I have no doubt that behavior changes will occur. Still doesn't make it therapy.

 

[aequitasveritas]

Yes (above)

People are getting confused about therapy vs therapeutic