wildlife Q/friendly debate to pass the time

[BlacKAT33]

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So in the UPenn thread we got off topic by talking about slow lorises and illegal wildlife trade. I somehow started to think about species extinction and it reminded me of an article I saw about the dodo bird.

http://animals.howstuffworks.com/extinct-animals/dodo1.htm

So, I think most people would probably agree that bringing back species from WAYYY back when (dodo bird, mammoth) is not good. But, what about the species that we have recently lost? Ones that have probably gone extinct due to human forces only?

 

[Wolphcats]

It is an interesting idea. Without getting into the ethical conflict, you have problems. You would need to clone enough individuals to produce a health genome. The best method is using the hybrid method... but then it would not be the same species. And once you have cloned the population, you run into many new problems. For example, you will need the habitat to support the animal. If it was human forces that caused the die off, then most likely the habitat does not exist anymore. In which case you will have to rely on zoos or fake habitat sanctuaries... but they will fill up pretty quickly. And then you run into the problems of introducing species into an established habitat...

I guess my opinion is that by cloning extinct species you open a whole can of worms before even touching the ethical issues.

 

[BlacKAT33]

If it was human forces that caused the die off, then most likely the habitat does not exist anymore. In which case you will have to rely on zoos or fake habitat sanctuaries... but they will fill up pretty quickly.

ah yes this is a great point. i was thinking more of species being over hunted than something like deforestation. You have a great point because if it was run out by something effecting their habitat then yes, it would have no where to live. I'm glad you left out the ethical side because oh man i did not want to start an ethical talk lol

I saw Avatar last night and it just made me sad to think about present world because i know this goes on everywhere i cant see. It did remind me of Ferngully+ Pocahontas like others are saying lol but I think it is great to have an "adult" movie teach the same thing that only little kids would watch before.

 

[HandD42]

Save the millions of dollars it would take to develop the methodology and spend it on habitat conservation to save existing species.

I even have trouble with organizations that spend big $$$$ rehabing a few individuals when scarce funds may be better spent buying up habitat or lobbying for increased conservation areas. Exceptions would be rehabbing individuals where populations are so small genetic diversity is at a premium.

 

[Wolphcats]

I saw Avatar last night and it just made me sad to think about present world because i know this goes on everywhere i cant see. It did remind me of Ferngully+ Pocahontas like others are saying lol but I think it is great to have an "adult" movie teach the same thing that only little kids would watch before.

When my girlfriend and I got out of that movie, she turned to me and said it was as if Ferngully and Pocahontas had a baby .

 

[davidd]

It is an interesting idea. Without getting into the ethical conflict, you have problems. You would need to clone enough individuals to produce a health genome. The best method is using the hybrid method... but then it would not be the same species. And once you have cloned the population, you run into many new problems. For example, you will need the habitat to support the animal. If it was human forces that caused the die off, then most likely the habitat does not exist anymore. In which case you will have to rely on zoos or fake habitat sanctuaries... but they will fill up pretty quickly. And then you run into the problems of introducing species into an established habitat...

I guess my opinion is that by cloning extinct species you open a whole can of worms before even touching the ethical issues.

molecular biologists have developed techniques for deriving sperm cells & egg cells from stem cells.... a derived sperm cell can fertilize an egg cell, creating a new batch of genetically unique stem cells (source), which in turn can reproduce and create another batch of stem cells (without ever leaving a petri dish)... theoretically, scientists could use this technique to produce a lineage of genetically unique offspring without any ever developing past the cellular stage... when applied to animal cloning, this undermines the 'founder effect'....

I think we need to ask whether or not there's a good reason, other than our own gratification, for re-populating lost species... I would love nothing more than to re-populate our ape ancestors: chimps, gorillas, orangutans, etc... also, polar bears, whales, dolphins, and panthers... but I've thought a lot about this, and I don't think there's any good reason to... and I think it's wrong to use animals as means to our ends, especially when our ends are trivial enjoyment....

 

[BlacKAT33]

molecular biologists have developed techniques for deriving sperm cells & egg cells from stem cells.... a derived sperm cell can fertilize an egg cell, creating a new batch of genetically unique stem cells (source), which in turn can reproduce and create another batch of stem cells (without ever leaving a petri dish)... theoretically, scientists could use this technique to produce a lineage of genetically unique offspring without any ever developing past the cellular stage... when applied to animal cloning, this undermines the 'founder effect'....

I think we need to ask whether or not there's a good reason, other than our own gratification, for re-populating lost species... I would love nothing more than to re-populate our ape ancestors: chimps, gorillas, orangutans, etc... also, polar bears, whales, dolphins, and panthers... but I've thought a lot about this, and I don't think there's any good reason to... and I think it's wrong to use animals as ends to our means, especially when our means are trivial enjoyment....

omg you're amazing. great post with scientific background, an awesome source from a top journal, and your wording still seems friendly! very impressive first post! welcome to SDN!

 

[davidd]

thanks for the welcome! 🙂

it's really a great topic...

 

[oilidigigoat]

As David pointed out I agree that we need to consider why we are bringing back an extinct species. As we know biodiversity is important in regulation of the spread of infectious disease. Similarly, alot of wildlife that are harmed by human actions are great indicators of the health of our ecosystem and have been used to monitor what future health implication our actions could have on the human species.

But as mentioned before we need to look at what kinds of habitats we can supply and how we can keep those habitats sustainable. There have been many efforts to reintroduce species that are near extinction and some have been successful.

 

[TrocarKarin]

I'm just waiting for the chickenasaurs.