Will it be worth it?

[Biograd29]

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Hello everyone,

Seeking some constructive advise as to whether you think this time around would be worth it, and what I can do to strengthen my application?

3.2 GPA undergrad - B.S. In neuroscience
Science GPA is higher - maybe a 3.4?

4.0 GPA master's program - cellular and molecular biology
2 publications in nature proceedings and biomed central physiology where I am the secondary author for my thesis work behind my grad school mentor.

Biology and Anatomy TA throughout grad school
Tons of community service through Tulane U after hurricane Katrina
Amazing lab research experience - I am a confocal microscope technician, cell culture, sterotaxic surgery, trained in all genetic lab procedures (pcr, dna extraction, dan sequencing, etc.)
After graduate school taught college biology and anatomy and physiology at a local university.
Worked on a horse farm running my own business through graduate school and afterwards.
Currently homeschool a high school student and tutor in my free time - chem, bio, anatomy, and biochemistry.
Currently employed at a human tissue bank where we prepare human specimens for medical R&D - mostly orthpaedic research but all over the nation. I also travel with this company and get to see all types of surgeries done live on our cadavers.

My concerns -
retaking mcat after applying in 2009 and not getting admitted. Horrible MCAT score, currently in a Kaplan prep course.

Not enough shadowing - I had an internship in Boston at the Harvard teaching hospital in 2005 and got a ton of shadowing experience then.

Volunteering? Registering for hospital volunteering feb 2nd and plan to
volunteer every weekend possible.

What do you think? Feel free to tear it up!!!

 

[Biograd29]

Another concern is that Biochemistry was not required as a course to graduate with a B.S. Therefore I do not have this class on record. Do you think this is also going to be a problem for admission to an M.D. Program?

 

[startswithb]

Another concern is that Biochemistry was not required as a course to graduate with a B.S. Therefore I do not have this class on record. Do you think this is also going to be a problem for admission to an M.D. Program?

It's not a prerequisite, so no. You just need to get a very high MCAT score right now. We're talking 35.

 

[emericana]

It's not a prerequisite, so no. You just need to get a very high MCAT score right now. We're talking 35.

you sure he needs that high with a 4.0 graduate gpa?

 

[n3xa]

you sure he needs that high with a 4.0 graduate gpa?

I thought undergrad gpas were weighed more heavily than graduate gpas. 😕

 

[Biograd29]

*she hehehe

A 35 is really going to take a miracle for me to achieve realistically. I know I need to strive for the 30s but I am not too fantastic at standardized testing - not really worried about step one since I know myself to be able to apply my hands on practice to studying in a far better way.

But what if I only score a 28 or a 29? Is getting admitted to an MD program just a fantasy with my background ( mostly undergrad GPA)?

 

[Ditto1114]

Hello everyone,

Seeking some constructive advise as to whether you think this time around would be worth it, and what I can do to strengthen my application?

3.2 GPA undergrad - B.S. In neuroscience
Science GPA is higher - maybe a 3.4?

4.0 GPA master's program - cellular and molecular biology
2 publications in nature proceedings and biomed central physiology where I am the secondary author for my thesis work behind my grad school mentor.

Biology and Anatomy TA throughout grad school
Tons of community service through Tulane U after hurricane Katrina
Amazing lab research experience - I am a confocal microscope technician, cell culture, sterotaxic surgery, trained in all genetic lab procedures (pcr, dna extraction, dan sequencing, etc.)
After graduate school taught college biology and anatomy and physiology at a local university.
Worked on a horse farm running my own business through graduate school and afterwards.
Currently homeschool a high school student and tutor in my free time - chem, bio, anatomy, and biochemistry.
Currently employed at a human tissue bank where we prepare human specimens for medical R&D - mostly orthpaedic research but all over the nation. I also travel with this company and get to see all types of surgeries done live on our cadavers.

My concerns -
retaking mcat after applying in 2009 and not getting admitted. Horrible MCAT score, currently in a Kaplan prep course.

Not enough shadowing - I had an internship in Boston at the Harvard teaching hospital in 2005 and got a ton of shadowing experience then.

Volunteering? Registering for hospital volunteering feb 2nd and plan to
volunteer every weekend possible.

What do you think? Feel free to tear it up!!!

First, let me tell you I'm in a very similar situation. My uGPA is 3.3, sGPA 3.4 and my grad GPA is 3.7. I've spent 3.5 years after grad school working as a research technician in basic science and pharmaceuticals. The first time I took the MCAT I got a 26, but applied anyway... I didn't get in. The feedback I received from the schools I applied to all said the same thing, "you're an outstanding applicant, but we didn't accept you because of your MCAT." Last year I took the PR prep course, retook the MCAT, and got a 31. At the moment I'm sitting on 3 acceptances (2 DO and 1 MD). Shadowing/volunteering is important, but I think you need to dedicate your life (outside of family/work) to the MCAT right now. I would shoot for a 30+. Can you get in with a 28 or 29? Possibly, but don't sell yourself short. Put every effort up can muster to score above a 30. The experience you've gained from grad school and beyond is your ticket to med school. Students coming straight from undergrad can't hold a candle to your experience, but you just have to get over this small hurdle. I think with your 4.0 grad GPA you can do well on the MCAT and excel in med school, no question. However, the title of this post "Will it be worth it?" is entirely up to you. Best of Luck!!

 

[startswithb]

I thought undergrad gpas were weighed more heavily than graduate gpas. 😕

This is my understanding and why I made the previous comment. Considering that the average acceptance stats are 3.66 uGPA and 31.5 MCAT, getting a mid-30s MCAT would help tremendously. Since your uGPA is below average, you have to score above average on the MCAT. A 28/29 would be fine for DO, which has an average acceptance score of 26/27. Since your grad GPA appears to be a traditional masters program, which are known for grade inflation and a greater focus on research than academic rigor, the adcoms will not be overwhelmed by your 4.0, especially considering it followed a 3.2 undergrad. (It will help, it just won't erase their doubts of your ability.)

Don't sell yourself short on the MCAT. You can do it if you really dedicate yourself. Don't say "I'm bad at standardized tests." This is a test that CAN be prepared for. Good luck!

 

[Cheshyre]

*she hehehe

A 35 is really going to take a miracle for me to achieve realistically. I know I need to strive for the 30s but I am not too fantastic at standardized testing - not really worried about step one since I know myself to be able to apply my hands on practice to studying in a far better way.

But what if I only score a 28 or a 29? Is getting admitted to an MD program just a fantasy with my background ( mostly undergrad GPA)?

DO student, similar situation, except that I scored a 35.

Before I get started, I really do think you should look into the DO system. I'm not one of those kids who will spout about how superior it is, and I'm not one of those kids who went DO because they didn't have options. However, now that I'm halfway through my first year, I love it and would recommend it to anybody who isn't interested in a research-heavy future career. I'm doing what I always wanted to do. Look around at some libraries and see if you can find DOs in America by Norman Gevitz. It's a decent summary about the history of the profession and the issues surrounding it. Obviously, if you want to be an MD then go for that. There's no point in working so hard for a degree that you won't be happy with. Also, StartswithB is mostly correct except for the fact that DO schools are getting more competitive. My school has a a 3.5/28 average.

Oh, and some DO schools prefer (and a few require) DO shadowing. So... yeah. Get on that if you want it.

Anyway.

You've proven that you can put in the hard work and your extracurriculars are great. The only other things to really worry about at the pre-interview stages are:
LORs
Shadowing
Personal Statement (maybe)
MCAT

Of these, I'll focus on the MCAT because it's what I feel most comfortable talking about.
In my experience, you need at least 2, maybe 3 months to study for the MCAT. You don't want to spend too much time on it because you'll get burned out. Plus, the material is all relatively basic. There are no upper-level sciences on it. That said, there still is a lot to get through. My advice is to do a review of the sciences - do it right and do it fast. Don't spend more than a few weeks on the review because what you need to be doing is practice tests/problems. I bought 1 Kaplan Self-Study book with an included test, 1 Kaplan book with 3 tests, 3 AAMC study tests (expensive, I know - less expensive than not getting into medical school), and 1 AAMC free test. You will run every test and every question section in any book available to you. Then, you'll go back to the beginning of the rotation and start again. People will say that the tests are worthless after you've taken then once. That's dumb (although it's true that the score you get on repeated practice tests will likely fail to be representative of your test day score). If you didn't score a 43 on your practice test, then there are still problems you don't understand on it. After every test, go through and figure out each question you got wrong. Run timed tests. Don't have time to do one? That's cool - run a timed section. Slow at work? Pull a book out and start reading or doing problems.

Does this sound really hardcore? Not really. In 2.5 months, most days I put in only ~2 hours max. Weekends would be a little more intensive, but not by much. The only time I was ever really hardcore was when I took a practice test.

The best practice for the verbal section is to read constantly. If you're not a reader, start. Go to the library and pick up books written by people who have a decent command of the English language. My favorite right now is David Foster Wallace. Michael Crichton is always fun as well. Go through your old high school reading lists and start picking out other books by those authors. Liked Catcher in the Rye? Why not read everything else the library has by Salinger? Loved Charles Dickens' Great Expectations? YOU ARE NOW DEAD TO ME.

Just kidding.

Quick side note: I really, really prefer Kaplan over Princeton Review. I don't know if you've done so, but go to Borders or Barnes and Nobles and flip through the books. Kaplan focuses on strategy, PR focuses on giving you more information than is necessary, presumably so that the actual test feels easy. Barron's is absolute trash. It's not an MCAT textbook - the one I got had an extensive human anatomy review.

When you go in for the test, treat it like an athletic event. Sleep well. Bring bottles of water in case the testing center doesn't have it. Bring a sweatshirt if it's cold. Bring food. I'm a cyclist, and we eat small amounts constantly on the road to replenish glycogen stores. I brought a box of 90 Cal granola bars (by Quaker, available at any grocery store) and ate one at each break. Don't eat too much or you'll feel sleepy. During breaks, I also went to the bathroom to use it as a source of isolation. I would go in there, splash some water on my face, take a few deep breaths, and get back into what I felt was a good mindset. When you get to the testing center, do your best to get in the zone. Get there early. Be calm. The MCAT is a standardized test. Instead of letting that scare you, let it be an advantage. If you prepare well, you will walk into the testing center knowing exactly what the format and content of the test will be like. You'll walk out with the biggest grin on your face.

Best of luck.

 

[Biograd29]

LORs
Shadowing
Personal Statement (maybe)
MCAT

Of these, I'll focus on the MCAT because it's what I feel most comfortable talking about.
In my experience, you need at least 2, maybe 3 months to study for the MCAT. You don't want to spend too much time on it because you'll get burned out. Plus, the material is all relatively basic. There are no upper-level sciences on it. That said, there still is a lot to get through. My advice is to do a review of the sciences - do it right and do it fast. Don't spend more than a few weeks on the review because what you need to be doing is practice tests/problems. I bought 1 Kaplan Self-Study book with an included test, 1 Kaplan book with 3 tests, 3 AAMC study tests (expensive, I know - less expensive than not getting into medical school), and 1 AAMC free test. You will run every test and every question section in any book available to you. Then, you'll go back to the beginning of the rotation and start again. People will say that the tests are worthless after you've taken then once. That's dumb (although it's true that the score you get on repeated practice tests will likely fail to be representative of your test day score). If you didn't score a 43 on your practice test, then there are still problems you don't understand on it. After every test, go through and figure out each question you got wrong. Run timed tests. Don't have time to do one? That's cool - run a timed section. Slow at work? Pull a book out and start reading or doing problems.

Does this sound really hardcore? Not really. In 2.5 months, most days I put in only ~2 hours max. Weekends would be a little more intensive, but not by much. The only time I was ever really hardcore was when I took a practice test.

The best practice for the verbal section is to read constantly. If you're not a reader, start. Go to the library and pick up books written by people who have a decent command of the English language. My favorite right now is David Foster Wallace. Michael Crichton is always fun as well. Go through your old high school reading lists and start picking out other books by those authors. Liked Catcher in the Rye? Why not read everything else the library has by Salinger? Loved Charles Dickens' Great Expectations? YOU ARE NOW DEAD TO ME.

Just kidding.

Quick side note: I really, really prefer Kaplan over Princeton Review. I don't know if you've done so, but go to Borders or Barnes and Nobles and flip through the books. Kaplan focuses on strategy, PR focuses on giving you more information than is necessary, presumably so that the actual test feels easy. Barron's is absolute trash. It's not an MCAT textbook - the one I got had an extensive human anatomy review.


Best of luck.

I am currently enrolled in a Kaplan live online course and will be studying until the end of June. Hoping to feel prepared enough to take the MCAT end of June or July. I will have my AMCAS ready to go by then so it can be submitted the day the MCAT score is released.

I am optimistic about my ability to impress Med schools with all other aspects of my life besides the MCAT score, so on a hope and a prayer...and 6 months of preparation I'm going to try again and do it right this time. $2k for this class took working a lot of extra hours at job #2 and tutoring job #3 to save for!!

It is worth it to me, I'm just honestly scared about my age - 28 in May, which means not going to medical school until I am 29...EEK

I am not adverse to becoming a DO either, I actually have a lot of holistic remedies and ideologies that I practice on a personal level. I just do not know any DO's where I live and just need to make that bridge happen to find out more and shadow.

As far as LORs and shadowing - I will have those bases covered by application time, I have very good grad school rec letters available, professors I worked under as well as doctors at the Harvard teaching hospitals in Boston that I have shadowed with, and was recently invited to shadow with again this year. I will be having one of the docs on the admission board at Harvard Med School proofread and critique my personal statement while I am up there - hoping that will again take care of one of my bases to reach the home run.

My only question remains, if I take the MCAT in July, with a score report a month later - is that too late to submit an application in August? What about September if I take the MCAT in August? I made the mistake of submitting in Oct two years ago, coupled with a low MCAT...no interviews of course. I know that early application is key, but not having enough prep time for the MCAT with a full time job is going to make the application fruitless IMO.

 

[Mindscrew]

in my experience, you have to apply early. if you write the mcat in july and wait till aug for the results before submitting, you will be completing your secondaries in sept/oct which is too late.

instead do well on the mcat and then apply in the following cycle early.

just my 2 cents

 

[avatarftw]

30.5 MCAT is the average for MD matriculants, not 31.5.

This is my understanding and why I made the previous comment. Considering that the average acceptance stats are 3.66 uGPA and 31.5 MCAT, getting a mid-30s MCAT would help tremendously. Since your uGPA is below average, you have to score above average on the MCAT. A 28/29 would be fine for DO, which has an average acceptance score of 26/27. Since your grad GPA appears to be a traditional masters program, which are known for grade inflation and a greater focus on research than academic rigor, the adcoms will not be overwhelmed by your 4.0, especially considering it followed a 3.2 undergrad. (It will help, it just won't erase their doubts of your ability.)

Don't sell yourself short on the MCAT. You can do it if you really dedicate yourself. Don't say "I'm bad at standardized tests." This is a test that CAN be prepared for. Good luck!

 

[Brachyury]

30.5 MCAT is the average for MD matriculants, not 31.5.

You're both wrong: in 2010, the mean MCAT of matriculating students was 31.1 https://www.aamc.org/download/161692/data/table18-facts2010mcatgpabymaj1-web.pdf.pdf

 

[dragonfly99]

You will need a good MCAT score to have a shot at any MD schools with your undergrad GPA. In the 30's would definitely help you. I think you would be competitive for DO if your MCAT is halfway decent (even high 20's) and you get some volunteer experience. A lot of this is also dependent on whether you are willing to move or not. If you have a kid(s) and are not willing to move your family, that will seriously limit your choices for both med school and residency. For example, if you live in Kansas or something and can't move, I would think there is only 1 (or maybe 2 at most) nearby med schools you could go to (? is there even a DO school in that area). This is a life changing decision you are making, and you have to understand that it is about more than getting in to med school. You will/would be choosing to give up whatever career you already have, and probably won't get to use a lot of the science skills that you have (not that they are totally irrelevant, but I did lab research for a few years before med school and it honestly has only been tangentially relevant to most of clinical medicine). I think you can get into some med school, if you are willing to make the sacrifices, but it may be a DO school...there's nothing wrong with that at all but some people seem to have a problem with it or be unwilling. Personally I've worked with several DO's and I don't see a difference...not sure I believe in the osteopathic manipulation stuff but I'm not that well informed about it I admit. I see a lot of value in their holistic kind of philosophy that they have, and they do tend to like nontraditional age applicants (which you seem to be).

 

[avatarftw]

Must have gone up 0.6 in a year! I swear that it was 30.5 in 2009...

You're both wrong: in 2010, the mean MCAT of matriculating students was 31.1 https://www.aamc.org/download/161692/data/table18-facts2010mcatgpabymaj1-web.pdf.pdf