Will Nurse Anesthesiologists Lower the Pay of the Anesthesiologists

[EmmaNemma]

I was talking to a doctor that graduated from medical school 10 years ago. He told me that there was a big scare back then that the anesthesiologist specialty would be replaced by CRNAs.

Is there any chance that this could happen down the road as heathcare costs are ultimately forced down? Are there particular things that anesthesiologist are trained to do that CRNAs cannot do?

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[ashkenazi1234]

Yea... Any case that requires some thinking mds can do that crnas cant.

 

[sunnyINphilly]

Yes.

 

[Depakote]

I was talking to a doctor that graduated from medical school 10 years ago. He told me that there was a big scare back then that the anesthesiologist specialty would be replaced by CRNAs.

Is there any chance that this could happen down the road as heathcare costs are ultimately forced down? Are there particular things that anesthesiologist are trained to do that CRNAs cannot do?

Practice medicine.

 

[Coastie]

I was talking to a doctor that graduated from medical school 10 years ago. He told me that there was a big scare back then that the anesthesiologist specialty would be replaced by CRNAs.

Is there any chance that this could happen down the road as heathcare costs are ultimately forced down? Are there particular things that anesthesiologist are trained to do that CRNAs cannot do?

There is no such thing as a nurse anesthesiologist.

Nurse anesthetists are RNs with a couple extra years of training. Like any other midlevel, they work underneath a physician's watchful eye, and have a limited technical role within the delivery of patient care.

As for differences, anesthesiologists practice medicine, and are trained in a variety of basic and clinical science medical disciplines to accomplish patient care during the critical pre, intra, and post-op periods of surgery.

CRNAs are trained to assist anesthesiologists in this regard, but will never have the training, expertise, or skills to accomplish the practice of medicine without undergoing the appropriate training : pre-med, medical school, internship, residency, fellowship.

 

[hivoltage]

CRNAs are trained to assist anesthesiologists in this regard, but will never have the training, expertise, or skills to accomplish the practice of medicine without undergoing the appropriate training : pre-med, medical school, internship, residency, fellowship.

I really wished i believed you. but they are being given the go ahead to practice independently by many many legislative bodies. SO I want to believe you so very much, but many people more important than myself are not.

 

[xbulletin]

This scare seems to happen every decade or two. See all the previous topic to answer this. Most CRNAs do not want to practice independently-- they are happy taking shift work and being able to go home. They aren't trained, nor do they really want the responsibilities of an attending.

If anything cuts into the salary of anesthesiologists, it'll more likely be general cuts across the board in medicine than CRNAs.

 

[Depakote]

I really wished i believed you. but they are being given the go ahead to practice independently by many many legislative bodies. SO I want to believe you so very much, but many people more important than myself are not.

Just because they're being granted the right to administer anesthesia independently by politicians doesn't mean it's appropriate and doesn't make it equivocal care.

If you'd like to help fight this, donating to the ASAPAC is a good start.

 

[EternalMD]

I really wished i believed you. but they are being given the go ahead to practice independently by many many legislative bodies. SO I want to believe you so very much, but many people more important than myself are not.

The main driving force behind that is costs and quite frankly, CRNAs are overpaid anyways. In fact, if anything, these anesthesia nurses will help drive their own salaries down by their continual factory-like churning out of half baked products. Plus, with competition from AAs (and I'm sure studies will show no difference in M&M between the two groups), CRNAs will have it tougher.

 

[hivoltage]

Just because they're being granted the right to administer anesthesia independently by politicians doesn't mean it's appropriate and doesn't make it equivocal care.

If you'd like to help fight this, donating to the ASAPAC is a good start.

there are many things in this world that are not appropriate; does not make it any less real.

 

[Depakote]

there are many things in this world that are not appropriate; does not make it any less real.

True...

I just wish there was something more we could to than complain about it on an online forum.

If you'd like to help fight this, donating to the ASAPAC is a good start.

 

[Laryngophed]

True...

I just wish there was something more we could to than complain about it on an online forum.

 

[pgg]

I really wished i believed you. but they are being given the go ahead to practice independently by many many legislative bodies. SO I want to believe you so very much, but many people more important than myself are not.

Well, there's the propaganda and legislative action on one side, and reality on the other.

I practice in the military, which is really the poster child ideal for so-called independent CRNA practice. Because of unpredictable warfighting requirements, the military may send lone CRNAs to austere and isolated areas to practice independently. So the military trains and prepares CRNAs with that potential need for independent practice in mind. Granted, that practice is almost exclusively trauma care of healthy ASA 1E Marines and soldiers ... well, OK, ASA 2E because they all smoke. Stateside, they do have a great deal of autonomy, but it's simply exaggerated fiction that they even do all the same cases anesthesiologists do, much less do them as well as we do.

My little Navy hospital does 99% ASA 1 and 2 outpatient surgeries, plus "low-risk" OB. The CRNAs here are essentially independent and do many cases without my involvement or even presence in the hospital. They do a good job. No real anesthesia M&M to speak of in the almost-2-years I've been here. At the large military hospital where I did my residency, they are required to consult an assigned anesthesiologist to discuss the plan for every ASA 3 or 4 patient regardless of the case. (Some weasel out of it, but the rule exists.) Case assignments are done by an anesthesiologist - you don't see CRNAs assigned to hearts, heads, big abdominal whacks, sick peds, NICU kids, etc.


I also moonlight a lot at a civilian hospital in an opt-out state. Long version, case assignments are still done by an anesthesiologist and acuity is very heavily slanted away from CRNAs. They take independent "first call" on some nights and on some weekends ... with an anesthesiologist backup. When I'm that backup, I get called in relatively frequently to help out or simply do a case when it's a sick patient, or major procedure, or the surgeon just wants a doctor. Most of these CRNAs do a pretty good job and don't like to push their limits. There are some though at the far left edge of the bell curve that do crazy things you just wouldn't believe. When things go wrong, they can't make a diagnosis and come up with a plan. They just can't. I'm talking about things like treating an amniotic fluid embolism (classic presentation with hypotension, dyspnea, hypoxemia, petechiae, the works) like a high spinal because "high spinal" is the only OB-related complication they know of that causes hypotension. I've found this sort of tunnel vision be less of a problem in the military (where SRNA training is relatively consistent, with reasonable standards, and even some surprising malignancy) compared to the civilian world, where it seems fly-by-night strip-mall SRNA mills will graduate anybody with the $ to pay tuition.

Short version, the more I work with independent CRNAs out here in desperate rural America, the less afraid I am of a midlevel takeover of the field. Many are excellent (and they generally DON'T WANT to be the guy where the buck stops), but the CRNA-factory quality control lets some awful ones through. We know it ... the surgeons here know it ... the hospital admin guys know it ...


What's more, the simple fact is that CRNAs aren't saving anyone any money out here. Their economic savings argument is a fiction. Their equal-care argument is absurd. They don't even do the same cases we do. I am not afraid ...

... but I still donate to ASAPAC via automatic cc billing every month.

 

[EmmaNemma]

Well, there's the propaganda and legislative action on one side, and reality on the other.

I practice in the military, which is really the poster child ideal for so-called independent CRNA practice. Because of unpredictable warfighting requirements, the military may send lone CRNAs to austere and isolated areas to practice independently. So the military trains and prepares CRNAs with that potential need for independent practice in mind. Granted, that practice is almost exclusively trauma care of healthy ASA 1E Marines and soldiers ... well, OK, ASA 2E because they all smoke. Stateside, they do have a great deal of autonomy, but it's simply exaggerated fiction that they even do all the same cases anesthesiologists do, much less do them as well as we do.

My little Navy hospital does 99% ASA 1 and 2 outpatient surgeries, plus "low-risk" OB. The CRNAs here are essentially independent and do many cases without my involvement or even presence in the hospital. They do a good job. No real anesthesia M&M to speak of in the almost-2-years I've been here. At the large military hospital where I did my residency, they are required to consult an assigned anesthesiologist to discuss the plan for every ASA 3 or 4 patient regardless of the case. (Some weasel out of it, but the rule exists.) Case assignments are done by an anesthesiologist - you don't see CRNAs assigned to hearts, heads, big abdominal whacks, sick peds, NICU kids, etc.


I also moonlight a lot at a civilian hospital in an opt-out state. Long version, case assignments are still done by an anesthesiologist and acuity is very heavily slanted away from CRNAs. They take independent "first call" on some nights and on some weekends ... with an anesthesiologist backup. When I'm that backup, I get called in relatively frequently to help out or simply do a case when it's a sick patient, or major procedure, or the surgeon just wants a doctor. Most of these CRNAs do a pretty good job and don't like to push their limits. There are some though at the far left edge of the bell curve that do crazy things you just wouldn't believe. When things go wrong, they can't make a diagnosis and come up with a plan. They just can't. I'm talking about things like treating an amniotic fluid embolism (classic presentation with hypotension, dyspnea, hypoxemia, petechiae, the works) like a high spinal because "high spinal" is the only OB-related complication they know of that causes hypotension. I've found this sort of tunnel vision be less of a problem in the military (where SRNA training is relatively consistent, with reasonable standards, and even some surprising malignancy) compared to the civilian world, where it seems fly-by-night strip-mall SRNA mills will graduate anybody with the $ to pay tuition.

Short version, the more I work with independent CRNAs out here in desperate rural America, the less afraid I am of a midlevel takeover of the field. Many are excellent (and they generally DON'T WANT to be the guy where the buck stops), but the CRNA-factory quality control lets some awful ones through. We know it ... the surgeons here know it ... the hospital admin guys know it ...


What's more, the simple fact is that CRNAs aren't saving anyone any money out here. Their economic savings argument is a fiction. Their equal-care argument is absurd. They don't even do the same cases we do. I am not afraid ...

... but I still donate to ASAPAC via automatic cc billing every month.

Thanks you for taking the time to write such a long response. Starting med school in 4 month, anesthesiology is my dream specialty. I think our family friend who is an ER doc just likes to scare me.

 

[berlog]

What worries me is that the AANA which is the governing body of CRNAs are pushing these absurd studies, which attempt to show no difference between MDA and CRNA outcomes. This suggests that they have an agenda in mind. Also they are starting these ridiculous DNAP programs, that is a "doctorate" even though if you look at the curriculum it is full of nonsense which has nothing to do with anesthesia itself which they can do part time. Who has ever heard of a 1 year doctorate? Then they can go around saying that they are "doctors." This curriculum is essentially full of nonsense, filler courses.

This is a sample curriculum:
DNAP 701 Human Factors and Patient Safety for Nurse Anesthetists 3
702 Nurse Anesthesia Patient Safety Seminar
DNAP 712 Leadership in Nurse Anesthesia Education
DNAP 789 Nurse Anesthesia Professional Practice
DNAP 711 Policy and Practice for Nurse Anesthetists
DNAP 789 Nurse Anesthesia Professional Practice 3
ALHP 708 Ethics and Health Care
DNAP 799 Nurse Anesthesia Capstone Project
DNAP 799 Nurse Anesthesia Capstone Project 4
ALHP 760 Biostatistical Methods for Health Related Sciences
ALHP 701 Health Services Delivery Systems 3

 

[IlDestriero]

The DNAP is all about a title, and has nothing to do with becoming a better clinician. The Emperor had no clothes, the TRUTH will come out.
Don't forget, all politics is local.

 

[berlog]

The DNAP is all about a title, and has nothing to do with becoming a better clinician. The Emperor had no clothes, the TRUTH will come out.
Don't forget, all politics is local.

That's true, but how would a patient know that if one of them says I'm Dr. so and so...I will be doing your anesthesia. Patients would not know to ask whether they are an MD or not.

 

[IlDestriero]

That's true, but how would a patient know that if one of them says I'm Dr. so and so...I will be doing your anesthesia. Patients would not know to ask whether they are an MD or not.

This is something that can be fixed locally.
Our IDs make it crystal clear who is an attending physician, nurse, resident, etc.
Any CRNA calling themselves Dr. xxxxx would be annihilated here. Out in independent practice land, I'm sure they delude themselves and decieve the patients every day. One large lawsuit could be the answer to that problem. Hospitals are VERY risk averse, one knowingly allowing Nurses to imply that they are physicians, and than being successfully sued is the answer. The next month every other hospital in the US would have a new policy barring that practice.

 

[jetproppilot]

Well, there's the propaganda and legislative action on one side, and reality on the other.

I practice in the military,

My oldest son is 22 years old. Joined the Army at 18, nows a Sergeant, sniper trained, deployed to Iraq for a year, now back on home soil, thank God.

One of his colleagues during his deployment is a gifted writer who blogged about their experiences...their situations...as it happened...

About four months into their one year deployment, despite feeling more connected with my son by reading his day to day experiences, in a land far away fighting a war,

I had to stop reading it.

My son's colleague blogged about how they cleared buildings, not knowing what awaited them around the next corner...in the next room...

My son's colleague blogged about being awakened suddenly in the middle of the night by mortar rounds hitting close to their vicinity...

My son's colleague blogged how he and my son would clandestinely infiltrate a hostile area and lie for hours in secrecy, homing in on their target...

He blogged about taking live fire. uhhhh dude some a s s h o le was shooting at my SON...not once...not twice...it was kind've normal where they were...to be FIRED UPON

Too much for a father to read. Too many tears of fear. I quit reading.


Current day, my son has reenlisted and being young, dumb, and full of cum laugh, he is actively persuing another deployment. He WANTS to go to Afghanistan.

Anyway, point of this post is

THANKS, PGG.

For your service in our armed forces.

I get your sacrifice.

And I'm very appreciative.

 

[baller71457]

This is something that can be fixed locally.
Our IDs make it crystal clear who is an attending physician, nurse, resident, etc.
Any CRNA calling themselves Dr. xxxxx would be annihilated here. Out in independent practice land, I'm sure they delude themselves and decieve the patients every day. One large lawsuit could be the answer to that problem. Hospitals are VERY risk averse, one knowingly allowing Nurses to imply that they are physicians, and than being successfully sued is the answer. The next month every other hospital in the US would have a new policy barring that practice.

If patients think CRNAs are physicians how does that advance the CRNA propaganda?

 

[nycitygas]

My oldest son is 22 years old. Joined the Army at 18, nows a Sergeant, sniper trained, deployed to Iraq for a year, now back on home soil, thank God.

One of his colleagues during his deployment is a gifted writer who blogged about their experiences...their situations...as it happened...

About four months into their one year deployment, despite feeling more connected with my son by reading his day to day experiences, in a land far away fighting a war,

I had to stop reading it.

My son's colleague blogged about how they cleared buildings, not knowing what awaited them around the next corner...in the next room...

My son's colleague blogged about being awakened suddenly in the middle of the night by mortar rounds hitting close to their vicinity...

My son's colleague blogged how he and my son would clandestinely infiltrate a hostile area and lie for hours in secrecy, homing in on their target...

He blogged about taking live fire. uhhhh dude some a s s h o le was shooting at my SON...not once...not twice...it was kind've normal where they were...to be FIRED UPON

Too much for a father to read. Too many tears of fear. I quit reading.


Current day, my son has reenlisted and being young, dumb, and full of cum laugh, he is actively persuing another deployment. He WANTS to go to Afghanistan.

Anyway, point of this post is

THANKS, PGG.

For your service in our armed forces.

I get your sacrifice.

And I'm very appreciative.

Interestingly enough, my brother (who finished his tour in iraq last year) is volunteering for afghan tour.

The Term nurse anesthesiologist makes me shudder

 

[Monty Python]

What worries me is that the AANA which is the governing body of CRNAs are pushing these absurd studies, which attempt to show no difference between MDA and CRNA outcomes. This suggests that they have an agenda in mind. Also they are starting these ridiculous DNAP programs, that is a "doctorate" even though if you look at the curriculum it is full of nonsense which has nothing to do with anesthesia itself which they can do part time. Who has ever heard of a 1 year doctorate? Then they can go around saying that they are "doctors." This curriculum is essentially full of nonsense, filler courses.

This is a sample curriculum:
DNAP 701 Human Factors and Patient Safety for Nurse Anesthetists 3
702 Nurse Anesthesia Patient Safety Seminar
DNAP 712 Leadership in Nurse Anesthesia Education
DNAP 789 Nurse Anesthesia Professional Practice
DNAP 711 Policy and Practice for Nurse Anesthetists
DNAP 789 Nurse Anesthesia Professional Practice 3
ALHP 708 Ethics and Health Care
DNAP 799 Nurse Anesthesia Capstone Project
DNAP 799 Nurse Anesthesia Capstone Project 4
ALHP 760 Biostatistical Methods for Health Related Sciences
ALHP 701 Health Services Delivery Systems 3

I simply must step in here and correct the above information, for you've left out the most important parts.

Students of that curriculum also take a doctoral-level course in Advanced Clipboard Carrying, followed by an internship in Clipboard Splinter Removal.

Electives include Medical and Surgical Treatment Options for Sacral Decubitus. The prereq for that particular elective is Sitting Through Multiple Inane Policy Writing Meetings.

The honors curriculum features Advanced Long White Coat Starching Techniques.

DNAP = Dumb, Neutered, And Pitiful

 

[jetproppilot]

I simply must step in here and correct the above information, for you've left out the most important parts.

Students of that curriculum also take a doctoral-level course in Advanced Clipboard Carrying, followed by an internship in Clipboard Splinter Removal.

Electives include Medical and Surgical Treatment Options for Sacral Decubitus. The prereq for that particular elective is Sitting Through Multiple Inane Policy Writing Meetings.

The honors curriculum features Advanced Long White Coat Starching Techniques.

DNAP = Dumb, Neutered, And Pitiful

OK OK OK (out of a Joe Peschi movie)

For you uneducated out there, I worked with Trin Alum at a previous gig. Great CRNA.

He's here, on our site, posting this.

Someone I respect. Have worked with. In the trenches.

For Trin to post that kinda opinion about the whole NURSE DOCTOR thing kinda puts it to rest for me.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I don't have as much faith as pgg does, but this is as solid of a post as you will ever read on this forum.

Well, there's the propaganda and legislative action on one side, and reality on the other.

I practice in the military, which is really the poster child ideal for so-called independent CRNA practice. Because of unpredictable warfighting requirements, the military may send lone CRNAs to austere and isolated areas to practice independently. So the military trains and prepares CRNAs with that potential need for independent practice in mind. Granted, that practice is almost exclusively trauma care of healthy ASA 1E Marines and soldiers ... well, OK, ASA 2E because they all smoke. Stateside, they do have a great deal of autonomy, but it's simply exaggerated fiction that they even do all the same cases anesthesiologists do, much less do them as well as we do.

My little Navy hospital does 99% ASA 1 and 2 outpatient surgeries, plus "low-risk" OB. The CRNAs here are essentially independent and do many cases without my involvement or even presence in the hospital. They do a good job. No real anesthesia M&M to speak of in the almost-2-years I've been here. At the large military hospital where I did my residency, they are required to consult an assigned anesthesiologist to discuss the plan for every ASA 3 or 4 patient regardless of the case. (Some weasel out of it, but the rule exists.) Case assignments are done by an anesthesiologist - you don't see CRNAs assigned to hearts, heads, big abdominal whacks, sick peds, NICU kids, etc.


I also moonlight a lot at a civilian hospital in an opt-out state. Long version, case assignments are still done by an anesthesiologist and acuity is very heavily slanted away from CRNAs. They take independent "first call" on some nights and on some weekends ... with an anesthesiologist backup. When I'm that backup, I get called in relatively frequently to help out or simply do a case when it's a sick patient, or major procedure, or the surgeon just wants a doctor. Most of these CRNAs do a pretty good job and don't like to push their limits. There are some though at the far left edge of the bell curve that do crazy things you just wouldn't believe. When things go wrong, they can't make a diagnosis and come up with a plan. They just can't. I'm talking about things like treating an amniotic fluid embolism (classic presentation with hypotension, dyspnea, hypoxemia, petechiae, the works) like a high spinal because "high spinal" is the only OB-related complication they know of that causes hypotension. I've found this sort of tunnel vision be less of a problem in the military (where SRNA training is relatively consistent, with reasonable standards, and even some surprising malignancy) compared to the civilian world, where it seems fly-by-night strip-mall SRNA mills will graduate anybody with the $ to pay tuition.

Short version, the more I work with independent CRNAs out here in desperate rural America, the less afraid I am of a midlevel takeover of the field. Many are excellent (and they generally DON'T WANT to be the guy where the buck stops), but the CRNA-factory quality control lets some awful ones through. We know it ... the surgeons here know it ... the hospital admin guys know it ...


What's more, the simple fact is that CRNAs aren't saving anyone any money out here. Their economic savings argument is a fiction. Their equal-care argument is absurd. They don't even do the same cases we do. I am not afraid ...

... but I still donate to ASAPAC via automatic cc billing every month.

 

[pgg]

My oldest son is 22 years old. Joined the Army at 18, nows a Sergeant, sniper trained, deployed to Iraq for a year, now back on home soil, thank God.

I don't know if you ever browse the milmed forum, but buried amidst all of the griping about the ridiculousity of working for the largest, least efficient, most non-physician-empowered cheapskate HMO in the world, the consistent silver lining everyone identifies is the opportunity to take care of our soldiers, Marines, sailors, airmen (office pogues that they are ), family members, and retirees. They endure a lot, risk a lot, and deserve our best.

And thank you for having an enlisted son. There aren't enough of us above the poverty line who "let" our kids join the military, and that class divide is part of what's wrong with America.

 

[jetproppilot]

I don't know if you ever browse the milmed forum, but buried amidst all of the griping about the ridiculousity of working for the largest, least efficient, most non-physician-empowered cheapskate HMO in the world, the consistent silver lining everyone identifies is the opportunity to take care of our soldiers, Marines, sailors, airmen (office pogues that they are ), family members, and retirees. They endure a lot, risk a lot, and deserve our best.

And thank you for having an enlisted son. There aren't enough of us above the poverty line who "let" our kids join the military, and that class divide is part of what's wrong with America.

MY SON HAS TAKEN LIVE FIRE, FOR ME, AND FOR ALL LIVING THEIR SWEET LIFE IN THE U S of A.

And thats about all I have to say about that.

 

[cchoukal]

the consistent silver lining everyone identifies is the opportunity to take care of our soldiers, marines, sailors, airmen (office pogues that they are ), family members, and retirees. They endure a lot, risk a lot, and deserve our best.

+1

 

[Monty Python]

My oldest son is 22 years old. Joined the Army at 18, nows a Sergeant, sniper trained, deployed to Iraq for a year, now back on home soil, thank God.

One of his colleagues during his deployment is a gifted writer who blogged about their experiences...their situations...as it happened...

About four months into their one year deployment, despite feeling more connected with my son by reading his day to day experiences, in a land far away fighting a war,

I had to stop reading it.

My son's colleague blogged about how they cleared buildings, not knowing what awaited them around the next corner...in the next room...

My son's colleague blogged about being awakened suddenly in the middle of the night by mortar rounds hitting close to their vicinity...

My son's colleague blogged how he and my son would clandestinely infiltrate a hostile area and lie for hours in secrecy, homing in on their target...

He blogged about taking live fire. uhhhh dude some a s s h o le was shooting at my SON...not once...not twice...it was kind've normal where they were...to be FIRED UPON

Too much for a father to read. Too many tears of fear. I quit reading.


Current day, my son has reenlisted and being young, dumb, and full of cum laugh, he is actively persuing another deployment. He WANTS to go to Afghanistan.

Anyway, point of this post is

THANKS, PGG.

For your service in our armed forces.

I get your sacrifice.

And I'm very appreciative.

Last year when I was recalled to active duty and sent to the Army Hospital in Landstuhl, Germany, your son was the person at the top of my wish-list that I did not want to see as a patient needing surgery. Very very glad he made it back home safe and sound.

 

[Monty Python]

I don't know if you ever browse the milmed forum, but buried amidst all of the griping about the ridiculousity of working for the largest, least efficient, most non-physician-empowered cheapskate HMO in the world, the consistent silver lining everyone identifies is the opportunity to take care of our soldiers, Marines, sailors, airmen (office pogues that they are ), family members, and retirees. They endure a lot, risk a lot, and deserve our best.

And thank you for having an enlisted son. There aren't enough of us above the poverty line who "let" our kids join the military, and that class divide is part of what's wrong with America.

And that's exactly why I continue to serve in the military, for the sole purpose of taking care of the best patients in the world. I no longer need the work nor the paycheck .... but it's an honor to take care of those who go in harm's way on our behalf, so we can sleep safely at night.

 

[imfrankie]

I don't know if you ever browse the milmed forum, but buried amidst all of the griping about the ridiculousity of working for the largest, least efficient, most non-physician-empowered cheapskate HMO in the world, the consistent silver lining everyone identifies is the opportunity to take care of our soldiers, Marines, sailors, airmen (office pogues that they are ), family members, and retirees. They endure a lot, risk a lot, and deserve our best.

And thank you for having an enlisted son. There aren't enough of us above the poverty line who "let" our kids join the military, and that class divide is part of what's wrong with America.

Enlisting in the Army was good for me. I hope my sons will do it too.
I would not oppose mandatory service, quite frankly. In fact, I would support it.

 

[EmmaNemma]

The school I am starting is osteoapthic. How are DO applications viewed by allopathic residency programs? Are there some programs that will not even consider a DO applicant? Thanks.

 

[karizma098]

The school I am starting is osteoapthic. How are DO applications viewed by allopathic residency programs? Are there some programs that will not even consider a DO applicant? Thanks.

Kind of a random thread to ask this,

but the answer is, it depends. Will it be a lot easier to match anes. coming from a US allo school? 110%, absolutely.

You definitely have to work a bit harder to match anesthesiology as a D.O, but it's generally doable. It's more likely you'll end up at a mid tier or community program - some 'big names' like Yale, Mass General, UCSF, etc don't typically have D.O residents; but you will find them at other big name places such as University of Chicago, Hopkins, etc, depends on the program director and on your stats.

Do well on your Usmle Step 1, apply broadly, and you should have no problem. Our school has matched candidates at uber-tough places like UCSD for radiology and Hopkins for Urology in the past 2 years, so if you are willing to work hard and are dedicated, you will be just fine.

 

[xbulletin]

As above poster said, its definitely doable for DOs to match anesthesiology. Its harder than from an allopathic school, but much easier than being an FMG or caribbean student.

While many residency programs just don't look at DOs, others look at the quality of the candidate regardless of whether they come from. So just work hard, do well on your tests (be sure to take the USMLEs in addition to COMLEX), get good letters, apply broadly.