Will nurses really give med students a hard time?

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kgpremed11

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I have friends who are already in med school and I asked them what's the hardest part about 3rd and 4th year and a lot of the replied "dealing with nurses." One guy said that nurses will give med students a hard time because of an inferiority complex. I hope this isn't true. I have a really hard time dealing with aggressive/ passive aggressive people. What is working with nurses really like.

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The vast majority of the time, it's not a problem. Treat them with respect, be humble, and they will do the same. Some departments might have nurses who are more catty or rude than others, so this varies, but it tends to be rare. There were a few cases of unfriendly nurses, but they ended up warming up to the idea of me being there. Just remember that the nurses who are always grumpy and mad have a **** life, so if they get mad, smile really big and chuckle. Killing them with kindness stuns them, since they usually don't get that reaction from people.
 
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I have friends who are already in med school and I asked them what's the hardest part about 3rd and 4th year and a lot of the replied "dealing with nurses." One guy said that nurses will give med students a hard time because of an inferiority complex. I hope this isn't true. I have a really hard time dealing with aggressive/ passive aggressive people. What is working with nurses really like.

the only people that nurses give a hard time to are medical students who think they are God's gift to the ward. they usually treat the nurses bad, and get crapped on in return. i know back when i was a nurse that we used to give a terrible time to doctors and medical students who were jerks to us, or who had attitude.

but be cool with the nurses and they will teach you a lot, and make your life so easy.

remember, as a third year, a seasoned nurse will probably know more about actual hands on medicine than you do...
 
the only people that nurses give a hard time to are medical students who think they are God's gift to the ward. they usually treat the nurses bad, and get crapped on in return. i know back when i was a nurse that we used to give a terrible time to doctors and medical students who were jerks to us, or who had attitude.

but be cool with the nurses and they will teach you a lot, and make your life so easy.

remember, as a third year, a seasoned nurse will probably know more about actual hands on medicine than you do...

Eh, there are some bad and lazy nurses out there too, and a lot of passive aggressive behavior out there too.

It is never wise to get into a conflict with nurses unless you absolutely have to do it (ie they are doing something that is directly compromising patient care and/or jeopardizing pt safety).

Nurses can cause hell for you in many subtle and not so subtle ways. Do not cause trouble.

Most will be much better than you at practical stuff like blood draws and IVs (which always made my attempts to place one after nursing failed an exercise in futility), and you should also trust their judgments about when a pt is looking bad since they've been around a lot longer and have a better feel for it than you might.

ICU nurses are usually particularly good, and you should always listen to them.

This is true MS3, MS4, even intern year.
 
I'm a nurse who actually is now applying to pharmacy school....lol BUT I think I can answer this question for you.There are a few know it all nurses who will give you a hard time just because they give EVERYONE a hard time. They are miserable people and misery loves company. However, there are som nurses such as myself who wont give you any grief at all.

The best advice I can give you is to be humble and kind. Some nurses may have an inferiority complex but you better not go into their area with a superiority complex either because you will be shot down quickly!

Alot of the nurses have alot more experience actually dealing with patients than you do and actually do know more than you whether you want to accept that or not. As a med student nurses can be your allies and will help make your day easier. If you go into a place being a cocky know it all you are setting yourself up for failure. The nurses and other staff will ignore you, give you a hard time, and may try to get you in trouble.

Also don't get into the nurses faces TOO much asking them unnecessary questions. Try your best to figure things out for yourself unless you really need help with something important regarding the patient. Nurses are usually very busy and don't have time to entertain your every thought.

So to sum all that up..........be confident but not cocky, try your best to appear to be a happy/easy going person even if your not, be respectful, go into the ward with a smile on your face, and don't be overly aggressive with the question asking. If you remember this you will be fine.
 
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A lot of people don't know that "alot" is not a word.
 
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A lot of people don't know that "alot" is not a word.

Your one of the cocky a*s know it alls I see.

I'm sorry that I didn't achieve the standard of grammatical excellence that this forum is known for. Please forgive me.
 
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Your one of the cocky a*s know it alls I see.

I'm sorry that I didn't achieve the standard of grammatical excellence that this forum is known for. Please forgive me.

YOU'RE not helping yourself by including another (way too common) grammatical error in YOUR post

This is one i simply do not get. Do people do this out of laziness? Out of a clear and blatant misunderstanding of the language?
 
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I haven't really had to deal with any nurses 1 on 1 since I'm only as MS3 so everything is usually through my team but I think overall, if you approach them nicely and thank them for whatever you want, they usually are fairly amiable. I've had tons of instances where a nurse clearly saw I had no idea where something was or how to do something and they volunteered to help. The only place where you might have some issues is in the ED but even there, it's because the place is so hectic after 11am that everyone's stressed out.

You might also want to just ask your intern/resident on who to watch out for. There's that one nurse that everyone knows and watches out for.
 
It's like everything else in life...there are kind, sweet nurses and then there are rude, unfriendly nurses. Like someone else stated, it really depends on the department. I found that Peds nurses were incredibly sweet and friendly while OR nurses made me want to hang myself.

It's not an inferiority complex. Most mean nurses I encountered were mean to EVERYONE not just medical students. They were mean to residents, younger nurses, PTs, etc.

And I wish we had a Nuremberg Trial for all grammar Nazis. Get over it. No one cares.
 
A lot of people don't know that "alot" is not a word.

Your one of the cocky a*s know it alls I see.

I'm sorry that I didn't achieve the standard of grammatical excellence that this forum is known for. Please forgive me.

YOU'RE not helping yourself by including another (way too common) grammatical error in YOUR post

This is one i simply do not get. Do people do this out of laziness? Out of a clear and blatant misunderstanding of the language?

Bump, set, spike :laugh:
 
It's like everything else in life...there are kind, sweet nurses and then there are rude, unfriendly nurses. Like someone else stated, it really depends on the department. I found that Peds nurses were incredibly sweet and friendly while OR nurses made me want to hang myself.

It's not an inferiority complex. Most mean nurses I encountered were mean to EVERYONE not just medical students. They were mean to residents, younger nurses, PTs, etc.

And I wish we had a Nuremberg Trial for all grammar Nazis. Get over it. No one cares.

but not attendings? Still could easily be explained by inferiority complex.
 
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The vast majority of the nurses that I encountered while in my school's main hospital were very nice and helpful, especially the OR nurses, who always told me where to stand to get the best view, asked me if I needed a step stool, handed me instruments so I could help retract, etc. I have heard, however, that the nurses at the VA are significantly less helpful, though I have not personally rotated there.
 
I'm a nurse who actually is now applying to pharmacy school....lol BUT I think I can answer this question for you.There are a few know it all nurses who will give you a hard time just because they give EVERYONE a hard time. They are miserable people and misery loves company. However, there are som nurses such as myself who wont give you any grief at all.

The best advice I can give you is to be humble and kind. Some nurses may have an inferiority complex but you better not go into their area with a superiority complex either because you will be shot down quickly!

Alot of the nurses have alot more experience actually dealing with patients than you do and actually do know more than you whether you want to accept that or not. As a med student nurses can be your allies and will help make your day easier. If you go into a place being a cocky know it all you are setting yourself up for failure. The nurses and other staff will ignore you, give you a hard time, and may try to get you in trouble.

Also don't get into the nurses faces TOO much asking them unnecessary questions. Try your best to figure things out for yourself unless you really need help with something important regarding the patient. Nurses are usually very busy and don't have time to entertain your every thought.

So to sum all that up..........be confident but not cocky, try your best to appear to be a happy/easy going person even if your not, be respectful, go into the ward with a smile on your face, and don't be overly aggressive with the question asking. If you remember this you will be fine.

I hear people say this all the time, even about dating. To be confident you have to be kinda cocky right? I seriously don't get the difference.
 
I hear people say this all the time, even about dating. To be confident you have to be kinda cocky right? I seriously don't get the difference.

cocky = making a show of confidence. But you don't have to be cocky to be confident.
 
If you don't have proper grammar and spelling, you shouldn't be in healthcare. I mean, my god! Think what a disservice you're doing to your patients and how unprofessional you're acting. I wouldn't want someone who made spelling/grammatical mistakes taking care of me.:rolleyes:
 
If you don't have proper grammar and spelling, you shouldn't be in healthcare. I mean, my god! Think what a disservice you're doing to your patients and how unprofessional you're acting. I wouldn't want someone who made spelling/grammatical mistakes taking care of me.:rolleyes:

In this day and age when everyone's grammar is constantly under scrutiny online, it is very easy to expose yourself as someone who does not understand the fundamental difference between simple words that we were taught in grade school.

You may think it sounds silly, but if I get to pick my doctor, I would generally prefer someone who has moved past struggling with the simplest of spelling and grammar dilemmas and is more equipped to tackle my anal herpes.
 
In this day and age when everyone's grammar is constantly under scrutiny online, it is very easy to expose yourself as someone who does not understand the fundamental difference between simple words that we were taught in grade school.

You may think it sounds silly, but if I get to pick my doctor, I would generally prefer someone who has moved past struggling with the simplest of spelling and grammar dilemmas and is more equipped to tackle my anal herpes.

Exactly! You need to differentiate between your and you're on an internet forum if you want to give me valtrex! Damn that anal herpes burns.!
 
Exactly! You need to differentiate between your and you're on an internet forum if you want to give me valtrex! Damn that anal herpes burns.!

I'm totally serious though, all being-a-dick-for-the-sake-of-being-a-dick aside. If you really examine the people in your life who consistently fail to grasp the fundamentals of grammar of spelling, I think you'll notice a pattern. These are typically not the ones who trend towards greatness.

You can continue to disagree in your passive-aggressive way.
 
I have friends who are already in med school and I asked them what's the hardest part about 3rd and 4th year and a lot of the replied "dealing with nurses." One guy said that nurses will give med students a hard time because of an inferiority complex. I hope this isn't true. I have a really hard time dealing with aggressive/ passive aggressive people. What is working with nurses really like.

What I say now may be controversial, but I think its true - Be nice, but don't be too nice. If you're the type who's too nice, I guarantee they will see you as someone who can be walked on and will often treat you as such. If you can be very confident (not cocky like others have mentioned) and be nice at the same time, then you will get far. If something needs to be done, you need to say it in a confident way or you can bet it won't get done. In downtime, its not a bad idea to strike up conversation or a simple "good morning, how are you" can go a long way.

Re: listening to nurses. I actually disagree. Many nurses say incredibly wrong things. This includes ICU nurses. Many experienced ones will say it with a confidence which will have you believe they know what they're talking about, but when you sit down and think, it would be untrue.

You should listen when they feel someone is taking a turn for the worse. How to do a procedure, more practical things. Don't listen to the medicine stuff they may try to tell you, because your job is to think. You need to formulate a differential diagnosis and not come to conclusions which exactly the opposite a nurse will do - see a problem and immediate come to a conclusion. As a medical student thats the worse thing you can do.
 
I'm totally serious though, all being-a-dick-for-the-sake-of-being-a-dick aside. If you really examine the people in your life who consistently fail to grasp the fundamentals of grammar of spelling, I think you'll notice a pattern. These are typically not the ones who trend towards greatness.

You can continue to disagree in your passive-aggressive way.

I was being sarcastic, though neither grammar-nazi poster actually voiced an opinion that poor grammar indicated being a poor healthcare worker. But if you yourself want to base your medical decisions regarding your anal herpes on elementary school grammar, be my guest. Thankfully, drug companies normally place grammatically correct instructions with your valtrex bottle, so you're still getting proper care.
 
The VA is the only place I've had issues with the nursing staff. The female med students and interns seemed to have much more trouble than us guys though.

Every nursing area has its good and bad apples. At my hospital, the VA nurses try to get away with as little work as possible, while the SICU nurses are mostly just huge bitches (although a select few are awesome).

I find that the higher the acuity of care on a floor/unit, the more potential there is for angry/bitchy behavior, which can absolutely trickle down to the med students.
 
Your one of the cocky a*s know it alls I see.

I'm sorry that I didn't achieve the standard of grammatical excellence that this forum is known for. Please forgive me.

Yep, got that one right.
 
PEOPLE will give you a hard time if you don't carry yourself well. Nurses are people.
 
I'm totally serious though, all being-a-dick-for-the-sake-of-being-a-dick aside. If you really examine the people in your life who consistently fail to grasp the fundamentals of grammar of spelling, I think you'll notice a pattern. These are typically not the ones who trend towards greatness.

You can continue to disagree in your passive-aggressive way.

Eggactly. Your gunna notise pretty quick that the people whom use those words bad, their usually pretty dum :prof:
 
VA nurses suck. There was this one floor nurse who just get random EKGs without them being ordered and complain that our stable COPD exacc. "should be transfered to the ICU." While being too lazy to do stuff we actually ordered on other pts...i.e. remove a central line.

Only had good experiences with nurses at non-VA locations.
 
PEOPLE will give you a hard time if you don't carry yourself well. Nurses are people.

All this time I thought they were koalas....

You learn something new every day it seems!
 
A lot of nurses won't care about you one bit because you can't sign off orders and you're only around for a few weeks.
 
As many have said, it varies. ICU and L&D nurses (the ones who work under pressure) are usually the most knowledgeable and most accommodating/understanding. Ambulatory nurses are on your side and will even give you tips on what to ask patients (especially early on when you don't know anything). It's the Gen surg nurses (including the circulating nurses in the OR) who think they are God's gift to the planet. (Sorry, you're valued for the service you provide, but let's not pretend you're more important than you really are.) Either way, you're the least powerful person in a hospital, so the only option you have is to respond with kindness and professionalism. Besides, if you let yourself get upset over every injustice, your M3 year is going to be long. Save your outrage for when you really need it.
 
As many have said, it varies. ICU and L&D nurses (the ones who work under pressure) are usually the most knowledgeable and most accommodating/understanding. Ambulatory nurses are on your side and will even give you tips on what to ask patients (especially early on when you don't know anything). It's the Gen surg nurses (including the circulating nurses in the OR) who think they are God's gift to the planet. (Sorry, you're valued for the service you provide, but let's not pretend you're more important than you really are.) Either way, you're the least powerful person in a hospital, so the only option you have is to respond with kindness and professionalism. Besides, if you let yourself get upset over every injustice, your M3 year is going to be long. Save your outrage for when you really need it.

It's hard to generalize. I've met saint-like OR circulators, and Hellspawn ambulatory nurses.

In my experience, nurses have different personalities and different critical practical knowledge bases depending on the service where they work. For instance, CTU nurses run the gamut from nice and competent, to catty and dumb. Psych nurses are generally nice but don't know much about medicine anymore. L&D nurses are an interesting (if by interesting you mean you try to avoid any interactions with them) bunch, to say the least. Surg floor nurses are extremely competent in my opinion, and have a fair sense of niceness to them. OR nurses are good at OR things only, and have the worst personality problems I've seen. ER nurses tend to be experienced, but the personalities may vary.

If there's one piece of advice I can give, its to never be a doormat. Part of learning medicine is to learn to stand up for yourself and your patients, and if a nurse is being unreasonable, it is your duty to politely express your disapproval and proceed with your plan in spite of the nurse's belligerence. Plus, a doormat is interpreted as someone who is being overly obsequious to compensate for their incompetence. You don't want to look incompetent.
 
honestly, who cares... nurses seem extremely busy most of the time... but when they act like something is totally obvious when its your first day in the hospital is a little annoying like 'why are you wasting my time with this' sort of look... c'mon man we've all been there. sometimes i wonder the same thing with the surgeons, do they completely black out memories of when they were MS-IIIs?

bottom line: don't take **** personally
 
It's hard to generalize. I've met saint-like OR circulators, and Hellspawn ambulatory nurses.

In my experience, nurses have different personalities and different critical practical knowledge bases depending on the service where they work. For instance, CTU nurses run the gamut from nice and competent, to catty and dumb. Psych nurses are generally nice but don't know much about medicine anymore. L&D nurses are an interesting (if by interesting you mean you try to avoid any interactions with them) bunch, to say the least. Surg floor nurses are extremely competent in my opinion, and have a fair sense of niceness to them. OR nurses are good at OR things only, and have the worst personality problems I've seen. ER nurses tend to be experienced, but the personalities may vary.

If there's one piece of advice I can give, its to never be a doormat. Part of learning medicine is to learn to stand up for yourself and your patients, and if a nurse is being unreasonable, it is your duty to politely express your disapproval and proceed with your plan in spite of the nurse's belligerence. Plus, a doormat is interpreted as someone who is being overly obsequious to compensate for their incompetence. You don't want to look incompetent.

as an MS-III, OR nurses can be annoying as hell... or just this other one i scrubbed in with recently...

kept sayin 'get in the game, dude' over and over again as to urge me to help everyone out. i just wanted to say shut the eff up... but i don't think the attendings and residents would have looked to nicely upon that.
 
I find that the higher the acuity of care on a floor/unit, the more potential there is for angry/bitchy behavior, which can absolutely trickle down to the med students.

My experience has been the opposite. I loves me some ED and ICU nurses (may partially come from having many friends who do those jobs, albeit not in the area I go to school), while I have had problems with floor nurses (mainly getting them to do work).

VA nurses suck. There was this one floor nurse who just get random EKGs without them being ordered and complain that our stable COPD exacc. "should be transfered to the ICU."

Holy ****, you actually met a VA nurse who will do EKGs?
 
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I think there are sh*tty people at every level.. attending, resident, medical students, nurses, social workers, case management etc. But since the topic is nurses I will say that I have had OR scrub nurses personally hand me scissors and remind me to cut sutures in the OR and give me the suction to let me help out and get involved. She really made me look good esp when I was like falling asleep/not paying attention. At the same time I've had a floor nurse refuse to go get a patient an incentive spirometer and state to me (and later the chief resident) you know where it is get it if you want it if not the patients gunna wait (and we had previously asked this nurse earlier). Soo... its the person not the profession, it just prob bothers you more when its someone who is "less trained" then you who's doing it.
 
This is what you need to do to show confidence. On the first day of rounds, you show up, find the toughest, meanest looking nurse there is, and you knock her out with one sure blow. The rest will fall in line.

Also, if a nurse offers you any food or gift, don't take it. That automatically makes you his/her ***** for the year.

PS. Never drop the hand sanitizer.
 
This is what you need to do to show confidence. On the first day of rounds, you show up, find the toughest, meanest looking nurse there is, and you knock her out with one sure blow. The rest will fall in line.

Also, if a nurse offers you any food or gift, don't take it. That automatically makes you his/her ***** for the year.

PS. Never drop the hand sanitizer.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Excellent advice. Should be required reading for anyone entering MS3.
 
Ya, nurses will be really give med students (and residents) a hard time - some of it deserved, and some of it not. I really don't think it has to do with an inferiority complex, but rather with personality disorders, and well, some nurses are just mean. I can sorta see why - med students, brimming with knowledge they've gained in the classroom, but usually with no clinical experience, come trouncing into the turf they've worked in for 20, 30, 40 years, they stay for a few months, tell the nurses what to do, and then theyre gone. I'm not saying it's right for them to be mean, I'm only trying to empathize.

If you keep a good head on your shoulders, ask for advice and keep your arrogance and self-indulgence to yourself (only if you're arrogant and self-indulgent), you should be fine. Many nurses will try to correct you, and sometimes they'll be wrong, but when they're right, acknowledge it, and don't give them what they want by throwing a hissy fit and causing a drama. Remember, it's their turf more than it is yours (a med student's), so when they offer advice or criticism, it may be totally inappropriate and wrong, but there could also be some truth to it. Nurses can be a valuable resource, but like in any profession, there will be plenty of dumb, useless nurses for every handful of smart, insightful nurses. My best advice: keep them updated on the plan! Nothing will piss off a nurse more than left in the dark about what you're doing or what you're thinking, or getting orders that are based on information they haven't yet been told. As a med student, if you take the initiative to keep your nurses well-updated on the plan of care, you will gain a good reputation among nursing very fast.
 
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and you should also trust their judgments about when a pt is looking bad since they've been around a lot longer and have a better feel for it than you might. .

If an ED/ICU nurse says a patient is going to code, the patient is going to code! If an ED/ICU nurse says a patient is going to code, the patient is going to code!
 
I am in MS3 now and I have found that the nurses either are nice to me, or they don't really care about me at all. I have not encountered any mean nurses. Most of them are just very busy and looking to get their job done.
 
Even as a volunteer when I was a premed, I encountered extremely RUDE and MESSED UP nurses. Not all of them are this way but there are ones who are rude/mean for no good reason. But I didn't notice a particular department they were localized in.

I noticed there are nurses who are rude/mean because they are bitter about life in general. For these types of nurses, just be kind to them. They are often rude but not messed up.

And then again, there are nurses who are messed up because they feel like they are superior to you. There was a nurse that I stopped in the hallway for a quick question regarding a patient and she responded by saying, don't you see I am busy? She was chatting with a janitor while holding onto a pile of gowns. After snapping at me, she strutted down the hallway with a scowl on her face to continue her work...of putting the gowns into the cart. I am sorry that patient concern is inferior to your time chatting with a janitor and organizing gowns but please, try to treat other people with respect. Sheesh. Those are the nurses that piss me off.

But then again, there are the extremely sweet, caring nurses who genuinely seem to care about the patients AND the people around them, whether they are Physical Therapists, Dieticians, med students, residents, or undergrads.
 
The hospital is the jungle. Literally everything can kill you. I make liberal use of the heisenberg uncertainty principle's lesser known correlary to the mental health of people who are exposed to the nonsensical whims of the unappreciative public: cops, nurses, baristas, ED docs.

Assume everybody is absolutely bat**** insane and is one minor misunderstanding away from taking it out on you.

Be polite to a fault, never give them a reason to hate you, always cover your ass.
 
There are a few nurses that are jerks, just like there are some arrogant med students that act like jerks. Most will be perfectly nice to you as long as you're nice and respectful in return. Some are saints who go way out of their way to teach you things that most med schools don't spend too much time on (scrubbing, blood draws, IVs, foleys, etc.). Know that unlike residents/attendings, teaching med students is NOT part of their job description. So when they do take the time, be appreciative.
 
The nurses I have worked with in 4 years of med school have been almost universally pleasant to work with and quite helpful as I try to figure out what the heck I am doing.
 
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