Will Only Non-Regionally Accredited MFT Program Be a Bad Idea?

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In my case (please skim bkgrnd info), would a non-regionally accredited MFT program be a bad idea?

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neutralpalatte

neutralpalatte

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I've been a lurker here for a number of years, and have read majority of threads on MFT and PsyD programs, but haven't seen this topic really covered:

If I were to complete a non-regionally accredited MFT program (nationally accredited only) and get my MFT license, would that hinder my future ability to get into a PsyD or PHD program in clinical psych, down the line? I know they can be competitive, but I would probably end up going to a professional school like Argosy if I did end up getting a PsyD. So would this, in any way, hinder my ability to do so?


Background: I'm really interested in Jungian and transpersonal psychology, and would like to complete a MS in counseling psych eligible for licensing. I previously attended the Institute Of Transpersonal Psychology (now called Sofia University), but didn't really care for the Masters program I was in, and the distance MFT program is 4 years long (too long). The program was just full of busy work, and I would have rather done it more as independent study (read a lot & then reflect) rather than be forced to do busywork with my cohort. Tuition is also high there. I have about a year worth of transferable credits (since ITP/Sofia is regionally accredited) as electives, so theres that.

I live in California, so World University in Ojai (happens to be a distance program, which I want) covers both my interests, and also means I'm eligible for LMFT after completion + hours in the state of California despite it only being nationally accredited.

I could attend Pacifica Graduate Institute, but the tuition seems insane ~$50k versus ~$12k at World U. Pacifica is regionally accredited, however, which means maybe in the future I could transfer some of the credits should I enter an advanced-standing PsyD program for those who already have an MFT degree.

However, I still can't really justify the cost for Pacifica because most other states don't have reciprocity laws for MFTs. I don't think I'll leave California, but I guess you never know.

I don't want to do a MSW program because a.) I don't like the coursework, and b.) I plan to stay self-employed forever so it won't matter if I opt for MFT. I'm self-employed right now in a really lucrative field, and the only thing I'd leave it for down the line is to be a therapist (MFT) or psychologist (PsyD). I feel like, as an entrepreneur, an MFT license or even just the MS in counseling will be really marketable for me. So the MFT program is more of a hobby than something I *HAVE* to have right this moment, and I know a lot of other people are not in that boat.


Thoughts?
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You should never go to a diploma mill regardless of its for a mft or psyd. best of luck
 
What's your rational for not seeking a PsyD/PhD now? Also, why not LPCC over MFT in CA?
 
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If I were seeing a mental health professional, I would much prefer that they took a standardized curriculum of courses and were properly/carefully supervised in their application of mental health interventions, as opposed to one who did it "more as independent study (read a lot & then reflect)."
 
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There is very little you could do, I think, that would prevent the PsyD programs you mentioned from taking you, as long as you (or the federal government/taxpayers) bring the tuition. The MFT is probably a good idea because if things go south, at least you'll have a license of some kind.
 
erg923 said:
If I were seeing a mental health professional, I would much prefer that they took a standardized curriculum of courses and were properly/carefully supervised in their application of mental health interventions, as opposed to one who did it "more as independent study (read a lot & then reflect)."
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That is the case with ANY distance learning MFT program. It is more independent study. The one at Pacifica (which is regionally accredited) is exactly the same as World University (nationally accredited). So was the one I actually attended at Institute Of Transpersonal Psychology aka Sofia (which is regionally accredited). They have the same courses. So its not a diploma mill. It is accredited, just not regionally because they never sought after that accreditation.

Also, you still have to do the supervised 3,000 hours regardless, in order to get your license. You are definitely jumping to conclusions.

It is impossible to get an MFT license without "a standardized curriculum" so your comment really makes no sense.

Lastly, as long as you have a physical MFT license, what kind of client would really care or know the difference between "World University in Ojai" versus "Pacifica Graduate Institute" or "Sofia University" being written on my bio page? And I don't even have to put it on my bio page honestly. As long as I'm licensed (which I can be through World U), market well & run a good business (which is definitely my strong point), and am a good therapist, why would that matter? They don't just hand out MFT licenses like candy.
 
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PsychBiker said:
What's your rational for not seeking a PsyD/PhD now? Also, why not LPCC over MFT in CA?
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If I enrolled right now, I would want to do a distance learning program, but not for a PsyD program because they don't have a good distance learning one due to APA standards and regulations.

I'm making 6 figures at my current job and it will not slow down for at least a few more years, so I want to capitalize on it while I am still in my 20s. Enrolling in anything where I would have to go to campus everyday would just not be a financially smart choice for me within the next 5 years. But this would possibly be doable in 10+ years, when my current job slows down. If it even does at that time.

I wouldn't mind doing a LPCC program, but I don't see any distance programs for that. There's some MSW ones, but again, I don't really like the coursework. I feel like I wouldn't get much out of it. MSW, while very marketable toward employers, seems less marketable for someone who wants to be self-employed and focus on one-on-one therapy anyway.

Lastly, while I would like to be a therapist or psychologist one day, I don't even know if I will opt to do a PsyD program in the future due to the cost. I can easily drop 130k for a PsyD program, but I like to think in terms of investment. That is a lot to invest in something I may not even need to get. I would love to do the coursework (psychology is my passion/hobby), but I'm just not sure about the price tag right now.
 
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neutralpalatte said:
That is the case with ANY distance learning MFT program. It is more independent study. The one at Pacifica (which is regionally accredited) is exactly the same as World University (nationally accredited). So was the one I actually attended at Institute Of Transpersonal Psychology aka Sofia (which is regionally accredited). They have the same courses. So its not a diploma mill. It is accredited, just not regionally because they never sought after that accreditation.

Also, you still have to do the supervised 3,000 hours regardless, in order to get your license. You are definitely jumping to conclusions.

It is impossible to get an MFT license without "a standardized curriculum" so your comment really makes no sense.

Lastly, as long as you have a physical MFT license, what kind of client would really care or know the difference between "World University in Ojai" versus "Pacifica Graduate Institute" or "Sofia University" being written on my bio page? And I don't even have to put it on my bio page honestly. As long as I'm licensed (which I can be through World U), market well & run a good business (which is definitely my strong point), and am a good therapist, why would that matter? They don't just hand out MFT licenses like candy.
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The point was that you should be seeking rigorous scientific and clinical training, not the most convenient shortcut you can find...which is basically what "professional schools" such as Argosy are. That’s not really debatable when looking at metrics used to demonstrate quality of product.
 
erg923 said:
The point was that you should be seeking rigorous scientific and clinical training, not the most convenient shortcut you can find...which is basically what "professional schools" such as Argosy are. That’s not really debatable when looking at metrics used to demonstrate quality of product.
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What??? The work at professional schools like Argosy are just as much work at any other school. It is NOT a shortcut. I don't even know what you're talking about. I know people who have attended these programs who have gone on to be very successful. In my years in a research lab, many of the people there were attending Argosy. Its curriculum is great. It is APA accredited just like any other non-professional school. Are you saying the APA doesn't have standards now?? By making that comment, you are putting down the APA.

I have personally spent years deciding what I have wanted to do, and looked at the curriculum of all PsyD programs in the state of California where I live. And all the programs are 4-5 years long unless you enter with advanced standing (already MFT licensed or eligible), in which case its 3 years since up to 30 credits can be transferred from a regionally accredited school (my ITP credits would likely transfer). How is this, in ANY way, a shortcut????

The coursework at professional schools (Argosy, Alliant, Chicago School Of Professional Psychology, American School Of Professional Psychology) can be tailored to fit your needs and goals because they offer so many classes, unlike many other schools.

Lastly, if you DO take a look at the list: http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/programs/clinical.aspx (cntrl + f "psyD") you will notice that there are almost NO PsyD programs in California that are from non-professional schools. Its all PhD programs, which is not my #1 choice. The only 2 PsyD programs in California that are NOT from professional schools, are from tiny private schools that are even less known that Argosy (and very far out of the way from where I've lived). But thanks for jumping to conclusions yet again.
 
Don't. Just don't. K?
 
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WisNeuro said:
Argosy is accredited because it gives a ton of cash to the APA. The Denver lawsuit against Argosy is likely only the beginning. I would strongly advise against the Argosy/Alliant route as well.
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Again, ??? What would you suggest I do instead? There are ZERO well-known university programs in the state of California that offer PsyD.

Lastly, how would where I went to school, in ANY way, affect my job prospects if I plan to be self-employed forever and am very good at marketing/business?
 
Move. Or do something else.

(Loma Linda's stats look acceptable to me...)
 
erg923 said:
Move. Or do something else.

(Loma Linda's stats look acceptable to me...)
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I would never move from California if I didn't have to. Its amazing here, my job is amazing here, and my friends + family are here. That is a cheap excuse lol
 
WisNeuro said:
Hey, if you can make it work, go for it. Although, if your job is amazing, why would you need to go to Argosy in the first place?
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I don't *need* to go anywhere. I just liked the coursework. I have a job based on my image, so its not something I can do forever, but maybe for another 10-15 years. That's all I'm going to say about it.
 
neutralpalatte said:
I would never move from California if I didn't have to. Its amazing here, my job is amazing here, and my friends + family are here. That is a cheap excuse lol
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Then your option is to attend ****ty programs. What else do you want us to say? Lol. I can't validate these programs for you, no matter how much you might want us to.
 
Lol I can tell everyone is just so hurt that professional programs became big after they completed their coursework I guess lol. Its that much of a threat to you? Putting down a school you have never attended?

Where you go to school says little about how good you are as a therapist. You could go to Harvard and still be a ****ty therapist/psychologist (yes I know Harvard isn't even APA accredited). You could go to a professional school and be an amazing therapist. It has more to do with someone's own experiences, drive, and knowledge base than what a school program shoves down your throat.

I came here for advice, but I can clearly see that since you can't understand the above^^^, you couldn't possibly give me useful or helpful advice on the subject matter in this thread. So I think I'm done here :)
 
WisNeuro said:
Why would we be hurt that we were properly trained and got paid to attend graduate school rather than having to pay an exorbitant sum?
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Jealous of people with money who can pay for it? I have no idea lol. Its not my problem either. What other people think of me or what I do, will never be my problem lol.

Anyway yes, done here! Thanks to those who were helpful :)
 
Don't feed the troll. they will learnj the hard way
 
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I am not a troll. I came here for advice. You obviously don't live in my state (CA), so you have no idea what the options are here. And you haven't seen that business success is in no way correlated with where you went to school. Nor is where you attend school being correlated with being a good therapist.

You also took the little chunk out of my post about Argosy, and used it as an excuse to bash professional schools rather than answering my original question. I guess if it makes you feel better about yourself... lol

I did NOT come here asking for advice about professional schools. I never even said I was attending Argosy, I just listed that for the future. But you guys, who already have some weird thing against it, can't stop talking about it. I did NOT come here asking about that. I have heard all sides to the arguments listed. Again, I stick to the position that where you go to school does not define your abilities to perform. Coming from Los Angeles, the entrepreneurial mecca, this couldn't be FARTHEST from the truth. My thought process has not been challenged, as I have heard all sides of the coin a million times. I am just sticking to what I know as fact. Combined with the fact that I worked with people who attended Argosy and Alliant, I just know what you are saying is not factual in any way. Its APA accredited. That's all I know and need to know. Its like arguing with the FDA saying things are bad for us even though it is FDA approved. Keep spewing that nonsense. If you refuse to handle how your own industry is changing and want to go back to the old ways of doing things, its not my problem that you are living in denial.
 
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You got "advice." You didn't like the advice.

Do you have another question?
 
I have a wife, 2 children, a nice home. I serve people in need everyday. I train students. I make (low) 6 figures. I am happy. I am not jealous of your "money."

Try again.
 
Whenever someone comes to a board for people wanting to become psychologists and then posts some wishy washy stuff about being some type of generic "therapist" and then they are surprised when their thought process is challenged. It's like going to the surgery board and posting about maybe getting an online nursing degree that will allow you to cut out tumors just as well. maybe my analogy is flawed but i was thinking troll from the gate. If not a troll, then ?
 
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Hey, shut up all yous guys! it's APA accredited. What could go wrong?!

I never understand people who get so angry about being "informed" about the field and how training works. And we don't even charge for this stuff. Bunch of heathens in this town, I tell ya.

It's worth noting you are talking to 5 practicing psychologists here in this convo. All whom are actively involved in academic and/or clinical training in this field. We know EXACTLY how this works. More so than you at this point.

Get your MFT, Do your Jungian therapy, skip the psyd from professional school entirely. Its generally poor training. It's not needed given your stated career goal.
 
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neutralpalatte said:
Lastly, if you DO take a look at the list: http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/programs/clinical.aspx (cntrl + f "psyD") you will notice that there are almost NO PsyD programs in California that are from non-professional schools. Its all PhD programs, which is not my #1 choice. The only 2 PsyD programs in California that are NOT from professional schools, are from tiny private schools that are even less known that Argosy (and very far out of the way from where I've lived). But thanks for jumping to conclusions yet again.
Click to expand...

Not true at all, there are a lot of University-based PsyD programs in CA: University of LaVerne, Loma Linda, Pepperdine, Azusa Pacific, Fuller, Biola, and I know there are many more.

By the way, thanks for jumping to conclusions?
 
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^^^ Who cares? I could probably get into most programs I applied to right now, but that is not why I'm here. Btw, I was referring the APA link I provided above for APA-accredited programs.

More importantly, I never once said I was going into a PsyD program, or even applying anytime even close to now. I asked about MFT and future implications. I have a job right now that pays extremely well and have zero plans to leave it for awhile, so no I will not be applying to a PsyD program anytime soon, which I have stated like 5 times already. At least a good 15 years away, and I guarantee this industry will be in a completely different place than it has been. I will worry about that bridge when I come close to crossing it. But as I have pointed out for awhile, that would be at least 15 years away.

Stop spending time arguing about PsyD programs (which I NEVER asked for advice on) and answer my question (which is the thread title since no one can figure that out) if you want to continue posting in this thread. I keep getting notifications for pointless comments that have nothing to do with the reason I started this thread (again, read the title of this thread) and do not know how to turn them off.

Again, I am looking for factual information and not opinions. I can look at a coin myself and see every side to it, so I don't need certain sides pointed out and then shoved down my throat. I have a working brain. On the other hand, factual links to things or copies of specific admission/program clauses are helpful, and that is what I came here looking for. Stuff in regards to accreditation (of MFT not PsyD).
 
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I'm actually an incoming research assistant for a primarily transpersonal psychologist in a humanistic program, and I'm with the people saying avoid professional/for-profit schools. The quality of education and training tends to be questionable/inconsistent as far as I can determine, and the price is outrageous. I wouldn't have chosen this path if I hadn't been able to go to the program I'm at, or one very similar (not many options though), and if I wasn't planning on going to a "legit" clinical doctoral program afterward.

I second the idea of just doing a terminal Masters, maybe do some training at an institute, I'm sure there's Jungian training available outside of a doctoral program in CA.
 
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I call troll. Going on and on about Los Angeles as the best place ever. Bleh.

(I can say that because I used to live there). ;)
 
Nahsil said:
I'm actually an incoming research assistant for a primarily transpersonal psychologist in a humanistic program, and I'm with the people saying avoid professional/for-profit schools. The quality of education and training tends to be questionable/inconsistent as far as I can determine, and the price is outrageous. I wouldn't have chosen this path if I hadn't been able to go to the program I'm at, or one very similar (not many options though), and if I wasn't planning on going to a "legit" clinical doctoral program afterward.

I second the idea of just doing a terminal Masters, maybe do some training at an institute, I'm sure there's Jungian training available outside of a doctoral program in CA.
Click to expand...

Did you not read my OP? I have already decided on doing an MFT program and was actually already enrolled in one but then I moved.

Yes, there is ITP aka Sofia, Pacifica, and World U. Those are the ones with that kind of coursework. Transpersonal, depth, jungian, etc. The only non-private MFT school I have ever heard of in CA with that kind of coursework is Sonoma State, and I'm not relocating to Sonoma just for an MFT program from a state school. Again, ITP/Sofia & Pacifica are regionally accredited, and World U is nationally accredited. Which brings me to this:

Does anyone want to actually answer the question I came here to ask? The one that just so happens to be the topic name of this thread? Thanks!
 
neutralpalatte said:
^^^ Who cares? I could probably get into most programs I applied to right now, but that is not why I'm here. Btw, I was referring the APA link I provided above for APA-accredited programs.
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You are really defensive; all the schools I mentioned were from the link you supplied.
 
PsychBiker said:
You are really defensive; all the schools I mentioned were from the link you supplied.
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This has nothing to do with what I came here to ask. I'm not asking about PsyD programs, I'm asking about MFT.

And I will not be engaging further in this pointless argument with you about something I don't care about, and has no relevancy toward what I came here to ask.
 
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neutralpalatte said:
Did you not read my OP? I have already decided on doing an MFT program and was actually already enrolled in one but then I moved.

Yes, there is ITP aka Sofia, Pacifica, and World U. Those are the ones with that kind of coursework. Transpersonal, depth, jungian, etc. The only non-private MFT school I have ever heard of in CA is Sonoma State, and I'm not relocating to Sonoma just for an MFT program from a state school. Again, ITP/Sofia & Pacifica are regionally accredited, and World U is nationally accredited. Which brings me to this:

Does anyone want to actually answer the question I came here to ask? The one that just so happens to be the topic name of this thread? Thanks!
Click to expand...

The answer to your question is no. The reason? Psyd programs at places you stated you want to attend have admission standards markedly below doctoral programs traditional university programs. Thus, they likey care little where your prior degrees were earned.
 
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erg923 said:
The answer to your question is no. The reason? Psyd programs at places you stated you want to attend have admission standards markedly below doctoral programs traditional university programs. Thus, they likey care little where your prior degrees were earned.
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Okay, do you have a link or source for that?
 
Which should tell you something, if you're open to hearing.
 
I would again throw my hat in the ring for Loma Linda.

Academic medical medical center and VA affiliations for training. A couple well known researchers. Decent internship match rates.
 
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erg923 said:
Look at their c20 data. Look at their admissions standards and subsequent ratios.
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And where can I find that comparative information neatly organized for me to review? That has to be out there somewhere on some site.
 
neutralpalatte said:
I am not a troll. I came here for advice. You obviously don't live in my state (CA), so you have no idea what the options are here. And you haven't seen that business success is in no way correlated with where you went to school. Nor is where you attend school being correlated with being a good therapist.
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There's a poster here who practices in California and is having a pretty rough time.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-school-anything.1074315/page-7#post-15537375
 
neutralpalatte said:
And where can I find that comparative information neatly organized for me to review? That has to be out there somewhere on some site.
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Sure there is. I will let you do that though since you value independent work.
 
cara susanna said:
There's a poster here who practices in California and is having a pretty rough time.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-school-anything.1074315/page-7#post-15537375
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I know many people in California (both the Bay Area and LA) with thriving practices. I will have a strong niche, so I know I will be fine. Also, the link you posted, the person states they live in NY.

Funny how that link mentions "Meanwhile, one of my colleagues has hired a hot chick he just wants to be around as a "sober coach" in his office." because I am a young attractive female and make a living off my looks, so looks like a win/win for me lol.
 
Yea. Just the thing potential advisors and supervisors want to hear from an applicant.
 
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