- Joined
- May 25, 2015
- Messages
- 174
- Reaction score
- 88
Asking as an MS3. Besides a bump in salary, what are some other benefits to pursuing a fellowship?
Will pursuing a fellowship make it less likely that a CRNA will take your job?
- Thread starter xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
- Messages
- 2,698
- Reaction score
- 2,382
Only do a fellowship if it allows you to do the cars that you enjoy. There are midlevels in all subspecialties, so no, it will not provide some protection from encroachment. There is often not even much of any bump in salary. What it may do, though, is make you stand out from your non-fellowship trained peers when it comes time to decide who gets to direct those CRNAs doing those cases. Or, if you're trying to crack a tough job market, having additional training in something the group values can provide a way in.
Bottom line, the benefits that your attendings will tell you for fellowship training are not that big or not there. They want continued cheap labor in the form of fellows, and the prestige amongst their peers showing how many of their gestates went on to big name fellowship programs. Only take on another year of training if you really enjoy the subspecialty, and can't see yourself practicing long-term being unable to do those kinds of cases.
Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile
Cardiac and pain will get you on average better pay, and give you the most chances to work away from midlevels if that’s what you want. Cardiac will also open doors to PP groups that you may not have a crack at otherwise. But only do these if you like the cases and patients. Otherwise you will be miserable.
- Joined
- May 28, 2008
- Messages
- 2,524
- Reaction score
- 3,135
No
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2009
- Messages
- 350
- Reaction score
- 390
This topic has been discussed extensively in the past on here. People like me who didn't do fellowship and had great private practice job offers coming out of residency will tell you that you shouldn't waste your time. People who did fellowship will tell their story of how it was their springboard to success and that the benefits are myriad. Everyone is biased on this topic. A focused search of the forum should provide you with plenty of anecdotal evidence on both sides of the fellowship question.
Just keep in mind that not ALL jobs will pay you more or even allow for you to use your fellowship training. Even if they do give you a little higher starting salary, it takes quite some time to make up for the opportunity cost of fellowship versus just getting out there and going to work one year sooner. Some groups may even see you as a liability. For example: if you do a peds fellowship and my group doesn't do a lot of peds cases, I would expect you to jump ship as soon as you can find a better job, one with more of those peds cases that you love so much. I would rather hire someone who is looking to come and do the types of cases that we do. It can help and it can hurt you in the job search, so do it because you love cardiac or regional more than you love one more year of post-training life (better schedule, more money, possibly more respect depending on where you land).
People love to talk about how their fellowship is going to protect them from midlevel creep and provide job security when a wave of rabid CRNA's sweeps across the land and devours all of the physicians in their path. If you seriously believe that fairy tale, then I have a bridge that I would love to sell you. Buy now before it's too late. I will even give you a special med school discount.
Just keep in mind that not ALL jobs will pay you more or even allow for you to use your fellowship training. Even if they do give you a little higher starting salary, it takes quite some time to make up for the opportunity cost of fellowship versus just getting out there and going to work one year sooner. Some groups may even see you as a liability. For example: if you do a peds fellowship and my group doesn't do a lot of peds cases, I would expect you to jump ship as soon as you can find a better job, one with more of those peds cases that you love so much. I would rather hire someone who is looking to come and do the types of cases that we do. It can help and it can hurt you in the job search, so do it because you love cardiac or regional more than you love one more year of post-training life (better schedule, more money, possibly more respect depending on where you land).
People love to talk about how their fellowship is going to protect them from midlevel creep and provide job security when a wave of rabid CRNA's sweeps across the land and devours all of the physicians in their path. If you seriously believe that fairy tale, then I have a bridge that I would love to sell you. Buy now before it's too late. I will even give you a special med school discount.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2012
- Messages
- 551
- Reaction score
- 913
FWIW, even at my major academic center, we have fellowship-trained folks I wouldn't let anywhere near my family and big-case generalists without fellowships I would beg to do their cases. Nothing about that extra year of training is magically going to turn a mediocre physician into a great one. Fellowships just unlock doors: you can't do hearts*, neonates, round in the ICU, or open a pain clinic without putting in an extra year** (or in my case, two), so if those practice areas are important to you because you LIKE them, then consider doing one. If not, get on with your life.
However, and I say this in the most loving way possible, as an MS3 this is so far beyond something you should be worrying about. Trust me- there are posts on this site from 2013 with MS3-me asking about congenital cardiac anesthesia superfellowship. Complete waste of energy. I don't even like discussing fellowships with new CA1s: waiting until CA2 year reduces the number of conversations I have to have about ICU fellowship by several orders of magnitude. Extrapolating my own experience, I imagine you are thinking you might like anesthesiology, but are concerned about the future and are trying to make yourself feel better about applying. Dude/dudette: just find something you think you might like- you're going to be doing more of it than you can possibly imagine. Culture, reimbursements, scope of practice, etc etc- it all can and will change, for some specialties in wild and unpredictable ways, some for the better, and some for the worse. But at least if the field interests you you have that fascination with the subject to fall back on when the hospital hires an freshly graduated administrator to sit in clinic and critique your workflow (happened to a surgeon friend of mine a decade out of training- the new hire had actually been a student in a class he teaches).
*Not interested in the debate about doing hearts/TEE without a fellowship. Yes it's possible, but I stand behind the notion that people who love doing hearts should consider an ACTA fellowship
**Again, making generalizations here, but the majority of people doing these things have fellowships, or will have fellowships in the future
However, and I say this in the most loving way possible, as an MS3 this is so far beyond something you should be worrying about. Trust me- there are posts on this site from 2013 with MS3-me asking about congenital cardiac anesthesia superfellowship. Complete waste of energy. I don't even like discussing fellowships with new CA1s: waiting until CA2 year reduces the number of conversations I have to have about ICU fellowship by several orders of magnitude. Extrapolating my own experience, I imagine you are thinking you might like anesthesiology, but are concerned about the future and are trying to make yourself feel better about applying. Dude/dudette: just find something you think you might like- you're going to be doing more of it than you can possibly imagine. Culture, reimbursements, scope of practice, etc etc- it all can and will change, for some specialties in wild and unpredictable ways, some for the better, and some for the worse. But at least if the field interests you you have that fascination with the subject to fall back on when the hospital hires an freshly graduated administrator to sit in clinic and critique your workflow (happened to a surgeon friend of mine a decade out of training- the new hire had actually been a student in a class he teaches).
*Not interested in the debate about doing hearts/TEE without a fellowship. Yes it's possible, but I stand behind the notion that people who love doing hearts should consider an ACTA fellowship
**Again, making generalizations here, but the majority of people doing these things have fellowships, or will have fellowships in the future
