Will Radiology Salaries continue dropping?

[Burla]

According to medscape's 2013 report the only 2 specialties to have salaries decrease are endocrinology and oncology by 3% and 4% respectively since 2011

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[sweetamazement]

AAMC reports an average of 427k. Again, big discrepancy between AAMC and medscape/whatever free self-reported data is available online.

Wow. 400k is quite a bit. But I suppose anesthesiology is the specialty with the highest risk of being sued. I guess its pretty risky, since if you mess something up, the patient dies, but idk how risky other medical specialties are, but with anesthesiology you dont really have a lot of time to diagnose, so if you mess up, youre in jail.

 

[Sesom]

nope, he just did anesthesiology and decided against a pain medicine fellowship because of the job offers.

I'm really confused. Exactly what kind of jobs are we talking about??

 

[Law2Doc]

Wow. 400k is quite a bit. But I suppose anesthesiology is the specialty with the highest risk of being sued. I guess its pretty risky, since if you mess something up, the patient dies, but idk how risky other medical specialties are, but with anesthesiology you dont really have a lot of time to diagnose, so if you mess up, youre in jail.

You wont go to jail for "messing up", unless you are doing something really foolish like administering propofol to someone in their home. You might end up sued, broke and fired though.


And fwiw, the younger anesthesiologist attendings I know don't even come close to that salary, so I think a lot of big fish must be badly skewing that survey high.

 

[akaMondo]

You wont go to jail for "messing up", unless you are doing something really foolish like administering proposal to someone in their home. You might end up sued, broke and fired though.

Damn lawyers.

 

[circulus vitios]

my boy who just finished anesthesia shared this with me.

He just took a 450k job in the suburbs of Chicago, around 50 hours a week with 2 overnights. He also said he was beating dudes off who wanted him to work in the boonies for 500k+.

$450k/yr, wow. Living the ****ing dream.

 

[circulus vitios]

AAMC reports an average of 427k. Again, big discrepancy between AAMC and medscape/whatever free self-reported data is available online.

I think AAMC pulls from MGMA data.

 

[sinombre]

And fwiw, the younger anesthesiologist attendings I know don't even come close to that salary, so I think a lot of big fish must be badly skewing that survey high.

This is why I wish they published ranges, or gave location data. AAMC does say the starting salary is 68k less than the average for "all physicians" though.

 

[circulus vitios]

You wont go to jail for "messing up", unless you are doing something really foolish like administering propofol to someone in their home. You might end up sued, broke and fired though.


And fwiw, the younger anesthesiologist attendings I know don't even come close to that salary, so I think a lot of big fish must be badly skewing that survey high.

2010 MGMA data
anesthesiology (3259 physicians polled across 166 practices): $420k mean, $129k sdev, $338k 25th percentile, $424k 50th percentile, $497k 75th percentile, $572k 90th percentile.

What is included in total compensation?
Total compensation is defined as the direct compensation amount individually reported on a W2, 1099 or K1 tax form, plus all voluntary salary reductions [401(k), 403(b), section 125 tax savings plan contributions].

Total compensation includes:

• Salary
• Bonus
• Incentive payments
• Research stipends
• Honoraria and distribution of profits

Total compensation does not include:

• Expense reimbursements
• Fringe benefits paid by the practice (retirement plan, life and health insurance, automobile allowances)
• Any employer contributions to a 401(k), 403(b) or Keogh plan

Sounds like the young anesthesia attendings that you know are on a slave parternship track, took low pay to work in a saturated market, took low pay for fewer hours, or just have ****ty jobs.

 

[BlueLabel]

I think everyone just needs to calm down. Everything is gonna be alright. There are threads like this going back the last decade and salaries haven't taken a huge hit like people predicted. If only making between $180,000-$500,000 is an issue reevaluate your career options and choose another one where you're guaranteed a $500,000 + salary so you can be happy.

I disagree. While I do think that it is possible for physicians to prevent catastrophic declines in reimbursement/salary, this will only happen if we are fully aware of the threat to the profession posed by politicians looking to score cheap and easy populist political victories in healthcare reform. If we want to hold on to what we have, we'll have to make a loud and compelling case for it. Being complacent and going with the flow just makes it easier for bureaucrats to shave off a few more percentage points every year, and what will that lead to?

This isn't about making a fortune. As a fellow aspirant to a career in medicine, I really don't feel you should heap moral disparagements and question the motives of those of us who are pained to see our future livelihoods eroded. For better or for worse, medicine is bound up into the fabric of American politics, and in democratic government, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I'm really confused. Exactly what kind of jobs are we talking about??

I dunno, I'll ask him when I see him next time. I bet it involves taking more overnights or some ****, but that's what he said.

You should see his ****ing house, it's baller. I'll snatch a pic next time I'm over.

 

[Burla]

I disagree. While I do think that it is possible for physicians to prevent catastrophic declines in reimbursement/salary, this will only happen if we are fully aware of the threat to the profession posed by politicians looking to score cheap and easy populist political victories in healthcare reform. If we want to hold on to what we have, we'll have to make a loud and compelling case for it. Being complacent and going with the flow just makes it easier for bureaucrats to shave off a few more percentage points every year, and what will that lead to?

This isn't about making a fortune. As a fellow aspirant to a career in medicine, I really don't feel you should heap moral disparagements and question the motives of those of us who are pained to see our future livelihoods eroded. For better or for worse, medicine is bound up into the fabric of American politics, and in democratic government, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

I made that statement because it seems like the longest and most debated threads around here all involve money. People spit pessimism everywhere even though the available surveys state that physician salaries have been increasing. We're in a good place because once we're out of residency we are essentially guaranteed a large sum of money. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Whereas trying to earn a physician's salary by grinding it out in say the business field for 10 years isn't a guarantee.

And I agree that physicians need to not be complacent. The problem is those who need a voice in Washington-teachers, police officers, healthcare workers etc are too busy working

 

[gumdrops]

$450k/yr, wow. Living the ******* dream.

Yeah, I'm curious too. I thought it was really difficult to get hired in major cities, much less for such a small, selective specialty with pay that's far above the national average right out of residency. This is take-home pay, right? Did your friend go to top schools for medical school and residency or have connections? Would be interested to know because this guy really is living the dream here.

 

[BlueLabel]

And I agree that physicians need to not be complacent. The problem is those who need a voice in Washington-teachers, police officers, healthcare workers etc are too busy working

I don't follow. Are you saying doctors aren't? My point is just that if we don't look out for our slice of the pie, nobody else is going to.

 

[Burla]

I don't follow. Are you saying doctors aren't? My point is just that if we don't look out for our slice of the pie, nobody else is going to.

I just meant that many of the professions who need a voice in government are too busy trying to make a living and don't have the resources available to initiate necessary changes. For example, there aren't enough physicians willing to "rally" against the insurance companies/government or perhaps the platform to do so just isn't available. If physicians salaries really are being cut then they should fight for their slice of the pie like you said.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Yeah, I'm curious too. I thought it was really difficult to get hired in major cities, much less for such a small, selective specialty with pay that's far above the national average right out of residency. This is take-home pay, right? Did your friend go to top schools for medical school and residency or have connections? Would be interested to know because this guy really is living the dream here.

He went to UIC and did his residency at Northwestern, so he wasn't a slouch. This is in the suburbs of Chicago, about 40 miles out, so maybe he found a niche to fill or something.

 

[gumdrops]

He went to UIC and did his residency at Northwestern, so he wasn't a slouch. This is in the suburbs of Chicago, about 40 miles out, so maybe he found a niche to fill or something.

Ah, makes sense now. Congrats to your friend. That's dope.

 

[Law2Doc]

"2010 MGMA data
anesthesiology (3259 physicians polled across 166 practices): $420k mean, $129k sdev, $338k 25th percentile, $424k 50th percentile, $497k 75th percentile, $572k 90th percentile."


First, this was 2010 data. It's 2014. A lot has changed. Many reimbursement cuts happened in that interval.
Second, even with this data, if someone is in the 25th percentile, minus the standard deviation, he's earning $209k, which is a lot closer to the actual young attending salaries some of us have seen in reality than the $400k figures floating around on this board. You aren't jumping out of residency to a $400k salary. The likelihood, if nothing changes, is more like a $200k salary. Which is still a nice salary, but not one you'd want to have before the inevitable next 10-20% cut. I think premeds jump to the top 75% or 90% salary and get excited. But honestly that's the "good old days" salary you will never ever see. That's the "earn my nut and get out and F all the people coming into the field behind me" salary. (and that's the salary skewing the mean well above realistic expectations).

 

[BestDoctorEver]

The Class of 2018 still have about months to make up their mind... Remember that you can make it big in finance if you work hard.

 

[JakeOgle]

Other than having to pay for student loans why does it matter, aren't you going to school to do something you love?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@JakeOgle... Unfortunately, paying student loans is the 10,000 lbs elephant in the room.

 

[aimedicine]

"2010 MGMA data
anesthesiology (3259 physicians polled across 166 practices): $420k mean, $129k sdev, $338k 25th percentile, $424k 50th percentile, $497k 75th percentile, $572k 90th percentile."


First, this was 2010 data. It's 2014. A lot has changed. Many reimbursement cuts happened in that interval.
Second, even with this data, if someone is in the 25th percentile, minus the standard deviation, he's earning $209k, which is a lot closer to the actual young attending salaries some of us have seen in reality than the $400k figures floating around on this board. You aren't jumping out of residency to a $400k salary. The likelihood, if nothing changes, is more like a $200k salary. Which is still a nice salary, but not one you'd want to have before the inevitable next 10-20% cut. I think premeds jump to the top 75% or 90% salary and get excited. But honestly that's the "good old days" salary you will never ever see. That's the "earn my nut and get out and F all the people coming into the field behind me" salary. (and that's the salary skewing the mean well above realistic expectations).

2015 MGMA data still list median anesthesia compensation at 450k with 3 to 7yrs of experience....374k with 1-2 years of experience....SOOOOO about that