pgg

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I don't think he'll win again, but then again I didn't think he had a snowball's chance the first time around, either.

Republicans probably keep the Senate. Democrats probably keep the House. Nothing gets done for another 4 years. Worse things could happen than that.
 

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I think mistakes from 2015-2016 election season are being repeated here, so I would not be surprised if Trump gets reelected.

There's also the global precedent of election forecasts being repeatedly wrong (see the recent Australia and India general elections), and I could see the popular forecasts predicting a Democratic win being similarly wrong here as well. For now, it's way too early to tell.
 
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pgg

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I think beating Trump will be about whether the democratic nominee is able to walk back whatever crazy wacky stuff that had to be said during the primary to get the fringe left out to vote. The people who vote in the primaries are a very different cohort than the people who vote in the general election.

At this point it's just a ridiculous parade of throwing outlandish free stuff at the wall to see if you can outdo the free stuff the other guy hurled up there.
 
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I think beating Trumpis will be about whether the democratic nominee is able to walk back whatever crazy wacky stuff that had to be said during the primary to get the fringe left out to vote. The people who vote in the primaries are a very different cohort than the people who vote in the general election.

At this point it's just a ridiculous parade of throwing outlandish free stuff at the wall to see if you can outdo the free stuff the other guy hurled up there.
Free healthcare for the world if you come to the Democrat led USA!

“Don’t you worry about the cost, our citizens will pick up the tab”
 
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pgg

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I'll also say, just for the record, that Bernie's idea of paying off all student loans fills me with rage. Not that I don't think tuition and loans and higher education costs are ridiculous, but all the people who did work study, took years off to work so they could pay tuition, everyone who joined the military for the GI Bill, everyone who settled for two years of community college before transferring to the U to save money, all of those responsible people who sacrificed to avoid debt, all the kids with parents who sacrificed and saved to send their kids to school, they get nothing. They would riot in the street, and I would probably join them.
 
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I'll also say, just for the record, that Bernie's idea of paying off all student loans fills me with rage. Not that I don't think tuition and loans and higher education costs are ridiculous, but all the people who did work study, took years off to work so they could pay tuition, everyone who joined the military for the GI Bill, everyone who settled for two years of community college before transferring to the U to save money, all of those responsible people who sacrificed to avoid debt, all the kids with parents who sacrificed and saved to send their kids to school, they get nothing. They would riot in the street, and I would probably join them.
I agree with u, but it’ll be one hell of a stimulus plan. If we can spend trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan, and trillions on tax cuts for the wealthy, and trillions bailing out banks, then I think Bernie’s plan isn’t so ridiculous in comparison. The only difference will be the trillions will go to the working classes and proletariat instead of the rich. But again, I agree with you and think it’s ridiculous how this country is spending its money
 
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I'll also say, just for the record, that Bernie's idea of paying off all student loans fills me with rage. Not that I don't think tuition and loans and higher education costs are ridiculous, but all the people who did work study, took years off to work so they could pay tuition, everyone who joined the military for the GI Bill, everyone who settled for two years of community college before transferring to the U to save money, all of those responsible people who sacrificed to avoid debt, all the kids with parents who sacrificed and saved to send their kids to school, they get nothing. They would riot in the street, and I would probably join them.
I agree. I am fortunate that my parents sacrificed a lot to do this for me, helped pay for school. Will they get their money back? No. Will they be taxed higher to pay for others' debt? Definitely, yes.
 

jwk

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Of course Trump will win. The winner of the first two nights of debates was Donald Trump. Say what you want about him (I hate the tweets as well but I get why he does it) but the country is largely on the right track, and the part that isn't is due to the Democrats doing everything in their power to stop him from doing anything at all. The Democrats as a party have gone so far left that regardless of their eventual nominee, there's no way to walk back all the impossible promises they've made. Most Americans are in the center, and the far left Democrats continue to shoot themselves in the foot over and over and over again with IOUs that can't possibly be paid.
 

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I'll also say, just for the record, that Bernie's idea of paying off all student loans fills me with rage. Not that I don't think tuition and loans and higher education costs are ridiculous, but all the people who did work study, took years off to work so they could pay tuition, everyone who joined the military for the GI Bill, everyone who settled for two years of community college before transferring to the U to save money, all of those responsible people who sacrificed to avoid debt, all the kids with parents who sacrificed and saved to send their kids to school, they get nothing. They would riot in the street, and I would probably join them.
True, but we send other countries money and spend tons on our military so that their citizens can go to college for free. If we as a country are going to pay for somebody’s college, I’d prefer it to be our own citizens.
 

pgg

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I agree with u, but it’ll be one hell of a stimulus plan. If we can spend trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan, and trillions on tax cuts for the wealthy, and trillions bailing out banks, then I think Bernie’s plan isn’t so ridiculous in comparison. The only difference will be the trillions will go to the working classes and proletariat instead of the rich. But again, I agree with you and think it’s ridiculous how this country is spending its money
If the point is a handout to stimulate the economy (which sure doesn't appear to need stimulating right now) it's stupid to give it to the people best positioned to work and produce in the first place (those with college degrees). Give it out to the unemployed with no prospects. High school dropouts, felons, the mentally ill, lazy people, anybody but the one cohort of people who are gonna go out and work for a living anyway.

It's stupid. Fix the problem of out of control tuition enabled by dumb lending rules. Don't just wipe the slate, and give the finger to every Marine soldier sailor airman who spent time in the middle east to earn the GI Bill, every kid who did work study, every parent who saved.

I have my 3rd and youngest kid starting college in a couple months. Instead of paying her tuition and living expenses maybe I should tell her to borrow the max because Bernie will pay it off for her. Worst case, I'll pay the loans off for her.

Bernie is dumber than that person who said (admittedly quoted out of context) she was so happy Obama was going to pay her mortgage. I don't think he's cynical enough to lie outright about it, so he must be simply senile.
 
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I will “yeah yeah yeah, mmm hmm” and nod my way through any political conversation about how Trump is fascist and a threat to our democracy or being made fun of by anyone I’m working around, and then vote straight republican ticket in November 2020. I will then be “shocked and dismayed” the next day/week after he’s re-elected alongside them.

In my opinion, the reason he won in 2016 is because one cannot disagree openly with any stance on the left without possible retribution that will be significantly detrimental to their job/income.

The left has not shifted from this position. Although they likely compose a small minority in terms of numbers that vote Democrat, they are the most vocal and likely to tattle or smear those they disagree with (whether it’s on Twitter or in the break room). So, the path of least resistance and the only option to fight back against the left is to vote for Trump.
 

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Free college, reparations for blacks and gays, free healthcare, free $1000/month (although I think yang is the smartest of the bunch), and somehow still eliminate gas cars and fossil fuels for good. All we have to do is pay 95% in taxes! These clowns have no real plans just empty promises with no way to pay for them.
 

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Surprised with a lot of these statements. The rich get richer under republicans/trump. Probably makes sense why there is so much republican love here. The part you are missing is its the people making over $1M a year that get the true benefits. Just like the corporate tax cuts that trump pushed through. Supply side economics don't work, and never have. I'd rather have a president that believes in science, can fight global warming, and yes, some proposals are ridiculous like debt forgiveness. Hopefully those things aren't enacted - but I certainly don't think America is headed in the right direction under this uber conservative senate/president. The extremists truly are on the right.
 

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Better hope so. Most of those clowns want Medicare for all. Get ready for your reimbursement to be cut in half.
Thankfully, most of them don’t fully support that and know how much a disaster it would be. But 2 of the most high profile candidates, Bernie and Warren, are all-in on it.

I found this article interesting on this part:


If Trump can stay out his own way during the campaign and can somehow rein in the nastiness, he wins easily. If he doesnt and the economy stays solid, he probably still wins. If economy tanks and the border crisis gets worse or something else and he continues to be a douche canoe on Twitter, he might get blown out. Hard to know almost a year and a half out. But I think overall odds are he stays in office which probably says more about his opposition and the Democrats than Trump himself.

Interestingly, the front runner of the GOP race this time in 2015 was Jeb Bush followed VERY briefly by Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson so it’s waaaaaay too early to make such predictions.
 

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Surprised with a lot of these statements. The rich get richer under republicans/trump. Probably makes sense why there is so much republican love here. The part you are missing is its the people making over $1M a year that get the true benefits. Just like the corporate tax cuts that trump pushed through. Supply side economics don't work, and never have. I'd rather have a president that believes in science, can fight global warming, and yes, some proposals are ridiculous like debt forgiveness. Hopefully those things aren't enacted - but I certainly don't think America is headed in the right direction under this uber conservative senate/president. The extremists truly are on the right.
So the job growth, GDP, unemployment rate, along with carbon emissions actually going DOWN means nothing to you huh? "Scientists say the world will end in 12 years." we're supposed ot believe that as a statement of fact?! If we do not believe that we don't believe in science? Cmon now, its the regulations and tax cuts for businesses that have created all these jobs so you saying it does not work just ignores facts. Things could be better but don't see them getting better under any of these democrats. Don't get me wrong trump is a fool and can't control his urges but as someone who did not vote for him last time, I don't see any better option here. The true extremists you say are on the right huh...(open borders, transgendering children, reparations, free everything etc...). I personally have seen little no change on my income or tax burden so no thats not why theres so much republican love from me.
 
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Eagles6389

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Saw an argument today for giving free healthcare to undocumented immigrants based on this premise: undocumented immigrants having free healthcare will actually save costs, because uncompensated health care costs (ER visits where the person has a huge medical bill and can’t pay) are so huge, and that regular access to healthcare leads to lower uncompensated health care costs and therefore saves money. Cited with a Commonwealth fund report saying in 2013-2015, there was a decrease in uncompensated health costs in the areas that had the highest ratio of uninsured or low income patients in Medicaid expansion states. Can that argument really apply to undocumented immigrants as well?

Regardless, isn’t free access to health care for undocumented immigrants just creating another incentive for illegal immigration?
 
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lakersbaby

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how many illegals are going to sign up for free healthcare and give their information to a government source? i don't see any of them jumping to sign up for this out of fear of deportation. How then could we provide this magical free insurance?
 
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agammaglobulin

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Has anyone seen cost estimates of (1) Medicare for all (2) Student loan debt forgiveness and (3) Healthcare for illegal/undocumented immigrants? Or a plan on how to pay for it (besides “only the wealthiest of Americans will pay for it”)? This has to be 10s of trillions of dollars...
 

nolagas

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Has anyone seen cost estimates of (1) Medicare for all (2) Student loan debt forgiveness and (3) Healthcare for illegal/undocumented immigrants? Or a plan on how to pay for it (besides “only the wealthiest of Americans will pay for it”)? This has to be 10s of trillions of dollars...
First you have an enforceable worker ID program, then illegal immigrants stop coming/leave, then free healthcare for illegal immigrants is cheap. No problem.
 

cks33

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So the job growth, GDP, unemployment rate, along with carbon emissions actually going DOWN means nothing to you huh? "Scientists say the world will end in 12 years." we're supposed ot believe that as a statement of fact?! If we do not believe that we don't believe in science? Cmon now, its the regulations and tax cuts for businesses that have created all these jobs so you saying it does not work just ignores facts. Things could be better but don't see them getting better under any of these democrats. Don't get me wrong trump is a fool and can't control his urges but as someone who did not vote for him last time, I don't see any better option here. The true extremists you say are on the right huh...(open borders, transgendering children, reparations, free everything etc...). I personally have seen little no change on my income or tax burden so no thats not why theres so much republican love from me.

Are you trying to say republicans are the party of climate change?

Furthermore, the economy was incredibly strong under obama, and Trumps stimulus has temporarily goosed numbers, while our debt has increased to compensate for that.

I personally want a better future for my kids.
 

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Sorry to derail for a minute here, but what exactly is a douche canoe anyways??? I mean, douche bag and douche nozzle I get. But what part of the douche is the canoe?

:shrug:

It’s a boatload of douche bags.
 
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If the point is a handout to stimulate the economy (which sure doesn't appear to need stimulating right now) it's stupid to give it to the people best positioned to work and produce in the first place (those with college degrees). Give it out to the unemployed with no prospects. High school dropouts, felons, the mentally ill, lazy people, anybody but the one cohort of people who are gonna go out and work for a living anyway.

It's stupid. Fix the problem of out of control tuition enabled by dumb lending rules. Don't just wipe the slate, and give the finger to every Marine soldier sailor airman who spent time in the middle east to earn the GI Bill, every kid who did work study, every parent who saved.

I have my 3rd and youngest kid starting college in a couple months. Instead of paying her tuition and living expenses maybe I should tell her to borrow the max because Bernie will pay it off for her. Worst case, I'll pay the loans off for her.

Bernie is dumber than that person who said (admittedly quoted out of context) she was so happy Obama was going to pay her mortgage. I don't think he's cynical enough to lie outright about it, so he must be simply senile.
If you give free money to those who dropped out of high school, felons, lazy people, etc., that may be like throwing money out the window. I have a brother in law who fits all of those things. He is 60 and still dependent on his mom for everything in his life. He would spend the money on liquor and drugs. I would rather pay off loans for someone who will contribute to society in a positive way. That being said, Bernie is a nut and has no understanding of economics and this massive loan payoff is a terrible idea.
 
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Gotcha. So more than a douchebag but not quite a douche yacht.
Douche Freighter

Or go bigger with Star Wars theme; a douche star destroyer or douche star.

Whoever becomes nominee, they will likely get verbally steamrolled and bullied by trump.
 
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lakersbaby

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Are you trying to say republicans are the party of climate change?

Furthermore, the economy was incredibly strong under obama, and Trumps stimulus has temporarily goosed numbers, while our debt has increased to compensate for that.

I personally want a better future for my kids.
No just saying derailing our economy in the name of a climate disaster that will kill us all in 12 years is a farce and a political scare tactic. Obama had the same GDP rate of growth for 8 years (1.6%). Trump - 2.2 to 2.9 to 3.2% lemme guess thats because of obama right?
 
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SaltyDog

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Douche Freighter

Or go bigger with Star Wars theme; a douche star destroyer or douche star.

Whoever becomes nominee, they will likely get verbally steamrolled and bullied by trump.
Douche Star FTW. :=|:-):
 

cks33

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No just saying derailing our economy in the name of a climate disaster that will kill us all in 12 years is a farce and a political scare tactic. Obama had the same GDP rate of growth for 8 years (1.6%). Trump - 2.2 to 2.9 to 3.2% lemme guess thats because of obama right?
Not really sure where you are getting your numbers....but Obama did in fact inherit a bad economy, and Trumps deficit spending has pushed it up to 2.9%, which Obama hit in 2015.

2008$14.713$15.605 -0.1%Financial crisis.
2009$14.449$15.209 -2.5%Stimulus Act.
2010$14.992$15.599 2.6%ACA. Dodd-Frank.
2011$15.543$15.841 1.6%Japan earthquake.
2012$16.197$16.197 2.2%Fiscal cliff.
2013$16.785$16.495 1.8%Sequestration.
2014$17.522$16.900 2.5%QE ends.
2015$18.219$17.387 2.9%TPP. Iran deal.
2016$18.707$17.659 1.6%Presidential race.
2017$19.485$18.051 2.2%Trump Tax Act.
2018$20.494$18.566 2.9%Deficit spending.
 

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The thing that makes me most depressed are the ardent Trump supporters who are willing to turn a blind eye to his sychophantic ass kissing of genuinely terrible dictators (Putin, Kim) in exchange for a "great economy". One that's been rolling since 2009, but Trump loves to take all the credit for.
 
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Idk guys if people do love their freebies and if the dems put a good spin on it Big Don might be sending his next tweet from prison. And I honestly do t have anything really against the guy.

Left wing socialism is a seductive thing. All your problems made clear and all your solutions as well.
 

lakersbaby

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Not really sure where you are getting your numbers....but Obama did in fact inherit a bad economy, and Trumps deficit spending has pushed it up to 2.9%, which Obama hit in 2015.

2008$14.713$15.605 -0.1%Financial crisis.
2009$14.449$15.209 -2.5%Stimulus Act.
2010$14.992$15.599 2.6%ACA. Dodd-Frank.
2011$15.543$15.841 1.6%Japan earthquake.
2012$16.197$16.197 2.2%Fiscal cliff.
2013$16.785$16.495 1.8%Sequestration.
2014$17.522$16.900 2.5%QE ends.
2015$18.219$17.387 2.9%TPP. Iran deal.
2016$18.707$17.659 1.6%Presidential race.
2017$19.485$18.051 2.2%Trump Tax Act.
2018$20.494$18.566 2.9%Deficit spending.
those 8 years average to 1.6% so i got those numbers from you
 

lakersbaby

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The thing that makes me most depressed are the ardent Trump supporters who are willing to turn a blind eye to his sychophantic ass kissing of genuinely terrible dictators (Putin, Kim) in exchange for a "great economy". One that's been rolling since 2009, but Trump loves to take all the credit for.
yes your hero obama was amazing in dealing with Russia and North Korea. Trump says stupid sh** and acts like a buffoon most of the time but regardless of him kissing ass to those guys hes hit them with sanctions and actually forces them to negotiate. It was obama who underestimated russia and mocked Romney for even calling them a threat.
 
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cks33

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yes your hero obama was amazing in dealing with Russia and North Korea. Trump says stupid sh** and acts like a buffoon most of the time but regardless of him kissing ass to those guys hes hit them with sanctions and actually forces them to negotiate. It was obama who underestimated russia and mocked Romney for even calling them a threat.
its trump who still doesn't acknowledge election meddling. he still cant sit through a briefing. Yea - obama did have a better policy, regarding russia, NK, and Iran. Especially Israel.
 

cks33

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those 8 years average to 1.6% so i got those numbers from you
give trump credit for the great economy he inherited and the then give obama credit for the bush economy...ok great, thanks! clearly you have no bias
 

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Democrats vs republicans are like wwf wrestlers. They appear like enemies. But at the end of the day. They are all high fiving each other behind close doors. Their personal interests are protected They look at for their super rich donors.

The poor will always be taken care of. It’s the working class that ends up paying all the bills.

That’s why Bernie has zero chance. Or any socialist democrat. Cause the DNC has to protect their elitist donors and protect their taxes. Notice every major tax law never affects the mega rich. Most of the wealthy pay passive 15-20% capital gains. Imagine

The Obamacare really affected the working class self employed making 50-150k. Cause they make more than 400% of poverty and don’t qualify for tax subsidies. Just one example.
 
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Democrats vs republicans are like wwf wrestlers. They appear like enemies. But at the end of the day. They are all high fiving each other behind close doors. Their personal interests are protected They look at for their super rich donors.
Remember, they are all lawyers, and that's what lawyers do, they fight and scream and accuse each other of all kinds of things while in reality it's all an act, and at the end of the day it's all about money.
 

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I'll also say, just for the record, that Bernie's idea of paying off all student loans fills me with rage. Not that I don't think tuition and loans and higher education costs are ridiculous, but all the people who did work study, took years off to work so they could pay tuition, everyone who joined the military for the GI Bill, everyone who settled for two years of community college before transferring to the U to save money, all of those responsible people who sacrificed to avoid debt, all the kids with parents who sacrificed and saved to send their kids to school, they get nothing. They would riot in the street, and I would probably join them.

"It was a struggle for me therefore it should be a struggle for you" is such a garbage argument.
 
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"It was a struggle for me therefore it should be a struggle for you" is such a garbage argument.
How about: you signed on the dotted line for your loans and now you need to repay the money (with interest) as you agreed to? Also a garbage argument?
 
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"It was a struggle for me therefore it should be a struggle for you" is such a garbage argument.
Meh. I mean somebody’s gonna pay for that and that generally means people with funds. And some of those people not only had to pay off their own debts which probably put a kink in their own plans but now there gonna be on the hook for others. It’s not like there gonna get a rebate in the mail. So I’m not really surprised people aren’t crazy about making your life easier.

The funding for it isn’t gonna come from taxing “Wall Street greed” or taxes on rampant speculation. It’ll be coming out of the pockets of anybody that works for a salary. So the people that paid will be getting whacked twice.
 

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How about: you signed on the dotted line for your loans and now you need to repay the money (with interest) as you agreed to? Also a garbage argument?
Is that what we told the banks and a company that makes terrible cars when we bailed them out of their bad decision-making?
 

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I don't think he'll win again, but then again I didn't think he had a snowball's chance the first time around, either.
who do you see beating him? if hilary were to run again she would easily get the nomination over any of the other 25+ jokers currently in the running and even she couldn't beat him. no, it'll be trump for another 4